Cut Skyship. We're playing cEDH here not cutesy funtime.
Get a Codex Shredder in there. Mill win-con with Iso-Dramatic that can recur an important piece.
You're missing Snapcaster Mage from your core cards. I can't imagine not running it in mono-U. On that note I don't understand why Mission Briefing sees less play than it.
Storage Matrix seems worse than alternative options.
My thinking for Skyship is that I could exile Mycosynth Lattice with it and then put it into my hand with Karn, but that's probably just not consistent enough. Arcum does what Skyship wants to do but better. I'll add in Tribute Mage instead since it finds a good suite of targets.
I'm not a fan of Mill win-conditions anymore. There's a Gitrog and a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that both run Eldrazi titans, so I won't be adding in the Shredder anytime soon. And if I'm going infinite with Dramatic Scepter, I'm probably going to just play Urza and dump that mana into his activated ability to cast every spell in the deck (except the ones that would cause me to mill myself out).
Not sure what I'd cut for good 'ol Snappy. Any suggestions?
Skyship is slow and clunky.
Arcum is redundant and slow.
Shackles seems redundant and worse than Legacy's Allure
Lattice is expensive and doesn't actually help win.
Arcum is redundant and slow.
Shackles seems redundant and worse than Legacy's Allure
Having more than one counterspell is redundant too. And don't forget to cut sol ring, mox opal, etc....because they're redundant. As you can see, calling something redundant is not a valid argument.
Arcum has been a star in my urza deck. He'll cheat in paradox at instant speed unless he's dealt with, and any card that has to be dealt with is a good card.
Not sure which is better between legacy's allure and shackles. But if there's a creature shutting you down or threatening to combo off, there's plenty of cards that will tutor for shackles and maybe one or two that will fetch the allure. And even if I do find the allure I'll probably have to wait a while before I can use it.
Hey has anyone playtested howling mine in this deck? I find the interaction between it an Urza rather amusing.
I don’t want my opponents drawing extra cards!!!! I have Slivers in my meta. Noooo.
Found holes for Invoke Prejudice and Forcefield. Works better actually.
The sky ship is way to slow to me and just not reliable.
Echo of Eons is really good for me as I can not afford a timetwister.
Need to pick up trinisphere and transmute artifact. Not cheap but attainable.
Power artifact is still needed in my opinion as it’s another infinite combo.
Dispel and trickbind/stifle needs to be considered as I have been seeing it do some work in games.
I like the futuresight combo buts a lot of cards to assemble. Adding a spot a for the sculptor is hard.
Thoughts on null rod?
Arcum is redundant and slow.
Shackles seems redundant and worse than Legacy's Allure
Having more than one counterspell is redundant too. And don't forget to cut sol ring, mox opal, etc....because they're redundant. As you can see, calling something redundant is not a valid argument.
Arcum has been a star in my urza deck. He'll cheat in paradox at instant speed unless he's dealt with, and any card that has to be dealt with is a good card.
Not sure which is better between legacy's allure and shackles. But if there's a creature shutting you down or threatening to combo off, there's plenty of cards that will tutor for shackles and maybe one or two that will fetch the allure. And even if I do find the allure I'll probably have to wait a while before I can use it.
Hey has anyone playtested howling mine in this deck? I find the interaction between it an Urza rather amusing.
I think that there are better draw effects available to the deck? And if Urza were to somehow not stay in play, than the Mine does benefit the table. Not the worst thing I suppose, but the fact that it helps the table when Urza ISN'T in play seems like a strike against the card, in my mind.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Shackles is better than the Allure. Being a repeatable effect is the bee's knees (where did this expression even come from??) and it helps increase the Artifact density in the deck. It's tutorable via the majority of the tutors in the deck and it can be cast and activated the turn it comes into play, more often than not. I like Shackles and have always liked Shackles and will continue to run it in any mono-Blue deck.
I don’t want my opponents drawing extra cards!!!! I have Slivers in my meta. Noooo.
Found holes for Invoke Prejudice and Forcefield. Works better actually.
The sky ship is way to slow to me and just not reliable.
Echo of Eons is really good for me as I can not afford a timetwister.
Need to pick up trinisphere and transmute artifact. Not cheap but attainable.
Power artifact is still needed in my opinion as it’s another infinite combo.
Dispel and trickbind/stifle needs to be considered as I have been seeing it do some work in games.
I like the futuresight combo buts a lot of cards to assemble. Adding a spot a for the sculptor is hard.
Thoughts on null rod?
Yeah, Echo of Eons is a godsend to budget cEDH players. I'm so glad they printed one. Now, they just need a functional [CARD}Transmute Artifact[/CARD} replacement.
I think you're underestimating the Future Sight combos. All of the pieces are individually good and Future Sight + Engine is really awesome too. I'm now at the point where I'm beginning to consider Future Sight as a staple card (for me).
After play testing the deck, futuresight is good. Agreed there. It’s better in urza in my view.
Shackles is the best. Opponents either over react or underestimate the card.
You ever dig through your stuff and find a card you didn’t know you owned? Found a trinisphere in a box I had not looked through in years. Huh. I looked harder but found nothing else I needed.
What is better? Mental misstep or Dispel?
Force of Negation....is it worth in the 99? Kind of like Archmage’s Charm for utility. Thoughts?
Noice! I didn't realize that Trinisphere was so expensive. I guess it's really good in Vintage and Legacy? I'll try and trade into it if I can.
It really depends. I've had great success with both Dispel AND Mental Misstep. I think that the Misstep hits a more varied sort of permanents while also stopping some of the relevant counterspells you would see that break up your turn while Dispel safeguards your combo turn pretty solidly. I prefer to be a little bit more proactive with my control elements, so I'd personally recommend the Misstep. You could run either of them and be totally fine.
I'm really high on Force of Negation, personally. Having another pseudo Force of Will effect is always welcome and the 1UU to defend a combo turn is not THAT big of a deal, particularly in a big mana deck like Urza. I highly recommend running it, since this deck is mostly afraid of non-creature spells comboing out before we can. Looking at you, Flash Hulk and Food Chain...
I've had some excellent experiences with Sai, personally. My wife plays her Kaalia deck exclusively, and being able to make chump blockers just by casting Artifacts has been hugely relevant in multiple instances, notably saving me from a Balefire Dragon trigger that would have slaughtered my board. Flying blockers > Clue tokens, at least for my playgroup. And Sai blocks Tymna ALL day, every day and survives most of the Wrath effects in cEDH. I'd recommend Sai, personally, over Trail of Evidence.
I just got my Arcum Dagsson in the mail and I am surprised no one noticed this. We don’t run enough artifact creatures to justify his abilty in my opinion. I ran many in Memnarch, but Urza is very creature light.
Thoughts?
Yes, I know urza poops out a construct, the rest of the deck is light in comparison to do the following:
Cast Arcum D., protect him till he looses summoning sickness, target a dude already on field with enough mana to counter threats. Casting Urza after Arcum with protection seems hard.
Thinking of dropping Graffdiggers cage for control as I run snapcaster mage and echo of eons.
My unique package are as follows:
Invoke Prejudice
Forcefield
Snapcaster mage
Arcum is redundant and slow.
Shackles seems redundant and worse than Legacy's Allure
Having more than one counterspell is redundant too. And don't forget to cut sol ring, mox opal, etc....because they're redundant. As you can see, calling something redundant is not a valid argument.
Arcum has been a star in my urza deck. He'll cheat in paradox at instant speed unless he's dealt with, and any card that has to be dealt with is a good card.
Not sure which is better between legacy's allure and shackles. But if there's a creature shutting you down or threatening to combo off, there's plenty of cards that will tutor for shackles and maybe one or two that will fetch the allure. And even if I do find the allure I'll probably have to wait a while before I can use it.
Hey has anyone playtested howling mine in this deck? I find the interaction between it an Urza rather amusing.
I think that there are better draw effects available to the deck? And if Urza were to somehow not stay in play, than the Mine does benefit the table. Not the worst thing I suppose, but the fact that it helps the table when Urza ISN'T in play seems like a strike against the card, in my mind.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Shackles is better than the Allure. Being a repeatable effect is the bee's knees (where did this expression even come from??) and it helps increase the Artifact density in the deck. It's tutorable via the majority of the tutors in the deck and it can be cast and activated the turn it comes into play, more often than not. I like Shackles and have always liked Shackles and will continue to run it in any mono-Blue deck.
I don’t want my opponents drawing extra cards!!!! I have Slivers in my meta. Noooo.
Found holes for Invoke Prejudice and Forcefield. Works better actually.
The sky ship is way to slow to me and just not reliable.
Echo of Eons is really good for me as I can not afford a timetwister.
Need to pick up trinisphere and transmute artifact. Not cheap but attainable.
Power artifact is still needed in my opinion as it’s another infinite combo.
Dispel and trickbind/stifle needs to be considered as I have been seeing it do some work in games.
I like the futuresight combo buts a lot of cards to assemble. Adding a spot a for the sculptor is hard.
Thoughts on null rod?
Yeah, Echo of Eons is a godsend to budget cEDH players. I'm so glad they printed one. Now, they just need a functional Transmute Artifact replacement.
I think you're underestimating the Future Sight combos. All of the pieces are individually good and Future Sight + Engine is really awesome too. I'm now at the point where I'm beginning to consider Future Sight as a staple card (for me).
I can't wait for my Urza to get here!
The Functional Transumute was already printed it is Reshape the power level is very different but that is what Reshape is.
I meant to say in addition to Reshape. Gimme all the tutor effects for Artifacts!
@Wraith
I think I'm inclined to disagree with you. While I'm waiting to test out my deck until I get my paper cards in the mail, I think that between Sai, Urza, and new Karn, there should be plenty of targets for Arcum's ability. We only really need to activate him once for him to have paid off and he gets especially broken with Sai. Time will tell.
This thread and all of my Primers will be moving over to the new site, once it's up and running. They're doing some final tweaks now and some server integration/updating, but it looks like it could be ready before the week is over.
Is Grafdigger cage in the main for meta or is it really useful?
This thread and all of my Primers will be taken down and moved to the new site.
The Cage is a general meta call. There's a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that I consistently see, and Hulk decks are top of the Tier in cEDH, so it's a great general inclusion.
Noice! I didn't realize that Trinisphere was so expensive. I guess it's really good in Vintage and Legacy? I'll try and trade into it if I can.
it spiked in price because of karn, the great creator which slides into several modern decks
many of the cards that were sideboard for it went up in price.
i feel that there are many decks that randomly flashback or cast cards from graveyard. ive found it to be useful in the deck to stop random shenanigans from happening but i wish that it also stop them from recurring back to hand ... a man can dream though.
I haven't slotted him in yet and I'm not sure I'm going to. A one-sided null rod is decent but his top ability isn't very useful and in casual multiplayer his bottom ability may as well not exist. It costs 4 and Urza can't tap it for mana so it doesn't seem worth it to me.
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Get a Codex Shredder in there. Mill win-con with Iso-Dramatic that can recur an important piece.
You're missing Snapcaster Mage from your core cards. I can't imagine not running it in mono-U. On that note I don't understand why Mission Briefing sees less play than it.
Storage Matrix seems worse than alternative options.
I'm not a fan of Mill win-conditions anymore. There's a Gitrog and a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that both run Eldrazi titans, so I won't be adding in the Shredder anytime soon. And if I'm going infinite with Dramatic Scepter, I'm probably going to just play Urza and dump that mana into his activated ability to cast every spell in the deck (except the ones that would cause me to mill myself out).
Not sure what I'd cut for good 'ol Snappy. Any suggestions?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Arcum is redundant and slow.
Shackles seems redundant and worse than Legacy's Allure
Lattice is expensive and doesn't actually help win.
Get a load of this guy with his solid suggestions.
Arcum has been a star in my urza deck. He'll cheat in paradox at instant speed unless he's dealt with, and any card that has to be dealt with is a good card.
Not sure which is better between legacy's allure and shackles. But if there's a creature shutting you down or threatening to combo off, there's plenty of cards that will tutor for shackles and maybe one or two that will fetch the allure. And even if I do find the allure I'll probably have to wait a while before I can use it.
Hey has anyone playtested howling mine in this deck? I find the interaction between it an Urza rather amusing.
Moment of silence for my man Memnarch.....
Ok...as soon as Urza shows up in the mail, I will be running this.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Found holes for Invoke Prejudice and Forcefield. Works better actually.
The sky ship is way to slow to me and just not reliable.
Echo of Eons is really good for me as I can not afford a timetwister.
Need to pick up trinisphere and transmute artifact. Not cheap but attainable.
Power artifact is still needed in my opinion as it’s another infinite combo.
Dispel and trickbind/stifle needs to be considered as I have been seeing it do some work in games.
I like the futuresight combo buts a lot of cards to assemble. Adding a spot a for the sculptor is hard.
Thoughts on null rod?
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I think that there are better draw effects available to the deck? And if Urza were to somehow not stay in play, than the Mine does benefit the table. Not the worst thing I suppose, but the fact that it helps the table when Urza ISN'T in play seems like a strike against the card, in my mind.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Shackles is better than the Allure. Being a repeatable effect is the bee's knees (where did this expression even come from??) and it helps increase the Artifact density in the deck. It's tutorable via the majority of the tutors in the deck and it can be cast and activated the turn it comes into play, more often than not. I like Shackles and have always liked Shackles and will continue to run it in any mono-Blue deck.
I think you should play both, Jiv.
Yes, a moment of peace and respect for the Mad Mechanical Memnarch.
*bows head*
Yeah, Echo of Eons is a godsend to budget cEDH players. I'm so glad they printed one. Now, they just need a functional [CARD}Transmute Artifact[/CARD} replacement.
I think you're underestimating the Future Sight combos. All of the pieces are individually good and Future Sight + Engine is really awesome too. I'm now at the point where I'm beginning to consider Future Sight as a staple card (for me).
I can't wait for my Urza to get here!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Shackles is the best. Opponents either over react or underestimate the card.
You ever dig through your stuff and find a card you didn’t know you owned? Found a trinisphere in a box I had not looked through in years. Huh. I looked harder but found nothing else I needed.
What is better? Mental misstep or Dispel?
Force of Negation....is it worth in the 99? Kind of like Archmage’s Charm for utility. Thoughts?
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
It really depends. I've had great success with both Dispel AND Mental Misstep. I think that the Misstep hits a more varied sort of permanents while also stopping some of the relevant counterspells you would see that break up your turn while Dispel safeguards your combo turn pretty solidly. I prefer to be a little bit more proactive with my control elements, so I'd personally recommend the Misstep. You could run either of them and be totally fine.
I'm really high on Force of Negation, personally. Having another pseudo Force of Will effect is always welcome and the 1UU to defend a combo turn is not THAT big of a deal, particularly in a big mana deck like Urza. I highly recommend running it, since this deck is mostly afraid of non-creature spells comboing out before we can. Looking at you, Flash Hulk and Food Chain...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Thoughts?
Yes, I know urza poops out a construct, the rest of the deck is light in comparison to do the following:
Cast Arcum D., protect him till he looses summoning sickness, target a dude already on field with enough mana to counter threats. Casting Urza after Arcum with protection seems hard.
Thinking of dropping Graffdiggers cage for control as I run snapcaster mage and echo of eons.
My unique package are as follows:
Invoke Prejudice
Forcefield
Snapcaster mage
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
The Functional Transumute was already printed it is Reshape the power level is very different but that is what Reshape is.
@Wraith
I think I'm inclined to disagree with you. While I'm waiting to test out my deck until I get my paper cards in the mail, I think that between Sai, Urza, and new Karn, there should be plenty of targets for Arcum's ability. We only really need to activate him once for him to have paid off and he gets especially broken with Sai. Time will tell.
This thread and all of my Primers will be moving over to the new site, once it's up and running. They're doing some final tweaks now and some server integration/updating, but it looks like it could be ready before the week is over.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
This thread and all of my Primers will be taken down and moved to the new site.
The Cage is a general meta call. There's a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that I consistently see, and Hulk decks are top of the Tier in cEDH, so it's a great general inclusion.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
it spiked in price because of karn, the great creator which slides into several modern decks
many of the cards that were sideboard for it went up in price.
i feel that there are many decks that randomly flashback or cast cards from graveyard. ive found it to be useful in the deck to stop random shenanigans from happening but i wish that it also stop them from recurring back to hand ... a man can dream though.
I haven't slotted him in yet and I'm not sure I'm going to. A one-sided null rod is decent but his top ability isn't very useful and in casual multiplayer his bottom ability may as well not exist. It costs 4 and Urza can't tap it for mana so it doesn't seem worth it to me.