In most cases I would not want to address a card like this but I feel it is probably tad more powerful than what should be allowed. I have actually gone infinite with it since it was the last card in my deck. I would draw, play and then get an extra turn. This allowed me (Having no deck aside form that one card, to win the game by having infinite turns. paying seven mana to make sure I keep getting to play and win. Scourge of Valkas and Dragon Broodmother.
This card need to be banned or at least heavily discussed. I run it because players at my LGS do. I would love for it to be banned, as I have cards I would love to squeeze into my deck. Right now it would be stupid to remove it as while i was presenting one scenario in which i won because of constant casts, i have won just because of the next alpha strike. I Managed to alpha strike with My dragon and draw it to cast again and get another alpha strike. (With The Ur-dragon and Kindred Discovery, and a few dragons, (About 8) so I was drawing 16 cards a swing. I was running low on cards in deck so i was getting it over and over. (luckily i won before i lost.)
It is a card that needs to be looked at. Is a recurable/reusable time spell something that should be looked into?
In most cases I would not want to address a card like this but I feel it is probably tad more powerful than what should be allowed. I have actually gone infinite with it since it was the last card in my deck. I would draw, play and then get an extra turn. This allowed me (Having no deck aside form that one card, to win the game by having infinite turns. paying seven mana to make sure I keep getting to play and win. Scourge of Valkas and Dragon Broodmother.
This card need to be banned or at least heavily discussed. I run it because players at my LGS do. I would love for it to be banned, as I have cards I would love to squeeze into my deck. Right now it would be stupid to remove it as while i was presenting one scenario in which i won because of constant casts, i have won just because of the next alpha strike. I Managed to alpha strike with My dragon and draw it to cast again and get another alpha strike. (With The Ur-dragon and Kindred Discovery, and a few dragons, (About 8) so I was drawing 16 cards a swing. I was running low on cards in deck so i was getting it over and over. (luckily i won before i lost.)
It is a card that needs to be looked at. Is a recurable/reusable time spell something that should be looked into?
I guess my question is... how often are people going to be doing this? I don’t play much with Nexus, or see it played often enough to a degenerate degree that’s made me look into how to break it. But, if this is really the only “broken” interaction, I can’t see this warranting a ban. Not anymore so than any other Time Magic spell.
You don’t have to resolve the spell, so I think that makes it worth discussing.
The yard combos are much easier to set up and the cheap warps work better with seasons past as well.
Scepter mystical is fine it also combos with beacon of tomorrows for a measly one more mana. So nexus is not really doing anything we haven't seen before.
The yard combos are much easier to set up and the cheap warps work better with seasons past as well.
Scepter mystical is fine it also combos with beacon of tomorrows for a measly one more mana. So nexus is not really doing anything we haven't seen before.
Nexus is not on anyone's radar period.
Yea tell that to rest in peace. Bojuka bog, Ashiok, dream render or really anything that exiles GYs. Maybe my meta has more answer to graveyard play than most others given how many GY decks we have (three people playing Muldrotha and we have two meren decks. We have a few mono black decks a well that are all about recursion and there is one guy who loves recurring Gary.
Tomorrows needs to resolve to get the shuffle. Short of a like 6 spells I would play (One of which i ever see (dissipate), but force of Negation may start seeing play) It is going back into the deck.
As wary as I was upon seeing Nexus of Fate for my first time here, I have to agree that I don't believe it hits ban criteria(or at least doesn't hit it hard enough).
It may be scary in my Niv deck(and it will replace beacon for sure once I get a copy), but that's a dedicated deck to drawing and wheeling, and that's the same for nexus. People are pointing out ways it can go degenerate, but that's not necessarily a fault of the card, and it adds more cogs to the 'game win' machine. All of which can be interacted with and broken. Your situation too, could have been easily broken. One zenith later, and GG.
Nexus of Fate is poor card design in my book.
Yet it takes quite some effort and mana to break it. Eternal Witness/Archaeomancer loops are easier to achieve and cost less mana.
Would i mind extra turns being banned? Heck no, they turn multiplayer games into solitaire f*ckfests. Are they broken outside of loops? I wouldn't say so.
However, being the last card of your library puts it in the same area as Laboratory Maniac, which I would say is far from banning.
While that is fair, most decks that run labman have a way to deck themselves. I wasn't decked, i was milled. Plus Labman is much easier to get rid of than Nexus. All types of removal can get rid of him and he doesn't get shuffled back when you do so.
I mean, getting milles out but winning because of Nexus doesn't sound like all that much of a problem, its a step above an eldrazi Titan for sure because it doesn't just stop you from losing but actually helps you win. Mill is pretty rare though, so those random wins are going to be rare. And since a lot of the time you are going to see mill it's via combo (like RiP Helm or bloodcrank) you are doing the lulzworthy achievement of turning their combo win against them. Otherwise, milling yourself to get it is a combo, just like labman.
As for fair play, I think it's one of the best extra turn spells for that. It's one extra turn and cannot be recurred so unlike time warp it doesn't push you to run more spell recursion to make it better. But it also does have the chance of coming back, so you can double dip if you get lucky. It does get better with tutors, but that's a lot of Mana to pull off.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
RIP/Helm exiles, so I doubt this would work there.
Because Rest in Peace and Nexus of Fate have replacement effects the affected objects controller chooses which to apply first and the other won't apply. So if someone were to just mill Nexus of Fate with only rest in peace in place they could just shuffle it back in instead of exiling it. However with the Helm combo they would still continue milling and would eventually be forced to choose to exile it in order to prevent an infinite loop. If they had a way to stop the combo like a enchantment destruction spell they could mill everything but the nexus, destroy the RiP and then have it as their only card left.
Good catch. Man, that replacement effect stuff is really sloppy. My quick reading of it was it was triggered like the Koz.
regardless, i don't think this thread goes anywhere without a comparison to the banlist criteria. That's pretty much the baseline for every ban discussion.
Good catch. Man, that replacement effect stuff is really sloppy. My quick reading of it was it was triggered like the Koz.
regardless, i don't think this thread goes anywhere without a comparison to the banlist criteria. That's pretty much the baseline for every ban discussion.
I actually had to look it up and check before I posted, its very confusing and counter-intuitive.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Had I put together that it was a replacement effect I think I would have got the ruling right but part of my brain was thinking triggered.
I should really know how replacement effects work with how much I've played chains of mephistopheles and dakmor salvage together but sometimes the old brain doesn't get all the way there
In most cases I would not want to address a card like this but I feel it is probably tad more powerful than what should be allowed. I have actually gone infinite with it since it was the last card in my deck. I would draw, play and then get an extra turn. This allowed me (Having no deck aside form that one card, to win the game by having infinite turns. paying seven mana to make sure I keep getting to play and win. Scourge of Valkas and Dragon Broodmother.
This card need to be banned or at least heavily discussed. I run it because players at my LGS do. I would love for it to be banned, as I have cards I would love to squeeze into my deck. Right now it would be stupid to remove it as while i was presenting one scenario in which i won because of constant casts, i have won just because of the next alpha strike. I Managed to alpha strike with My dragon and draw it to cast again and get another alpha strike. (With The Ur-dragon and Kindred Discovery, and a few dragons, (About 8) so I was drawing 16 cards a swing. I was running low on cards in deck so i was getting it over and over. (luckily i won before i lost.)
It is a card that needs to be looked at. Is a recurable/reusable time spell something that should be looked into?
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
And I love how they shuffle back into your library.
I guess my question is... how often are people going to be doing this? I don’t play much with Nexus, or see it played often enough to a degenerate degree that’s made me look into how to break it. But, if this is really the only “broken” interaction, I can’t see this warranting a ban. Not anymore so than any other Time Magic spell.
You don’t have to resolve the spell, so I think that makes it worth discussing.
Scepter mystical is fine it also combos with beacon of tomorrows for a measly one more mana. So nexus is not really doing anything we haven't seen before.
Nexus is not on anyone's radar period.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Yea tell that to rest in peace. Bojuka bog, Ashiok, dream render or really anything that exiles GYs. Maybe my meta has more answer to graveyard play than most others given how many GY decks we have (three people playing Muldrotha and we have two meren decks. We have a few mono black decks a well that are all about recursion and there is one guy who loves recurring Gary.
Tomorrows needs to resolve to get the shuffle. Short of a like 6 spells I would play (One of which i ever see (dissipate), but force of Negation may start seeing play) It is going back into the deck.
Please find the philosophy document and do an analysis of nexus against the banning criteria. You'll find it doesn't come close in a single category.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
It may be scary in my Niv deck(and it will replace beacon for sure once I get a copy), but that's a dedicated deck to drawing and wheeling, and that's the same for nexus. People are pointing out ways it can go degenerate, but that's not necessarily a fault of the card, and it adds more cogs to the 'game win' machine. All of which can be interacted with and broken. Your situation too, could have been easily broken. One zenith later, and GG.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
However, being the last card of your library puts it in the same area as Laboratory Maniac, which I would say is far from banning.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Yet it takes quite some effort and mana to break it. Eternal Witness/Archaeomancer loops are easier to achieve and cost less mana.
Would i mind extra turns being banned? Heck no, they turn multiplayer games into solitaire f*ckfests. Are they broken outside of loops? I wouldn't say so. This shouldn't be a reason to play any card, period.
While that is fair, most decks that run labman have a way to deck themselves. I wasn't decked, i was milled. Plus Labman is much easier to get rid of than Nexus. All types of removal can get rid of him and he doesn't get shuffled back when you do so.
As for fair play, I think it's one of the best extra turn spells for that. It's one extra turn and cannot be recurred so unlike time warp it doesn't push you to run more spell recursion to make it better. But it also does have the chance of coming back, so you can double dip if you get lucky. It does get better with tutors, but that's a lot of Mana to pull off.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
edit: corrected, I didn't realize that it was a replacement effect and worked like that! But yeah.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Because Rest in Peace and Nexus of Fate have replacement effects the affected objects controller chooses which to apply first and the other won't apply. So if someone were to just mill Nexus of Fate with only rest in peace in place they could just shuffle it back in instead of exiling it. However with the Helm combo they would still continue milling and would eventually be forced to choose to exile it in order to prevent an infinite loop. If they had a way to stop the combo like a enchantment destruction spell they could mill everything but the nexus, destroy the RiP and then have it as their only card left.
regardless, i don't think this thread goes anywhere without a comparison to the banlist criteria. That's pretty much the baseline for every ban discussion.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I actually had to look it up and check before I posted, its very confusing and counter-intuitive.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I should really know how replacement effects work with how much I've played chains of mephistopheles and dakmor salvage together but sometimes the old brain doesn't get all the way there
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall