I found it off-putting that yesterday there was a noncommittal announcement that the RC was still taking feedback and hadn't made a decision yet, and today we got an official announcement. Not that it wasn't an unexpected decision.
What did you find offputting about it? We sought input from the community, received overwhelming amounts of it very quickly, and came to a decision. We thought it would be best to not drag our feet on this decision as we didn't want to confuse the issue, so we made the announcement once everyone on the RC and CAG was in agreement.
Less than 1 day isn't exactly a robust comment window. I was also pretty surprised the announcement came today, and wondered aloud 'why did they ask for input then?'. The RC/ CAG owe me nothing, but that timeline was off-putting.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Less than 1 day isn't exactly a robust comment window. I was also pretty surprised the announcement came today, and wondered aloud 'why did they ask for input then?'. The RC/ CAG owe me nothing, but that timeline was off-putting.
As I said, we received a lot of replies quickly and the general shape of community opinion was clear from those replies. An overwhelming percentage (about 75%) supported the change to the London Mulligan. If the reception had been colder or more nuanced, we would have taken more time in coming to our decision, but the community's response lined up with our own considerations (both positive and negative) and so we moved forward with the announcement so that it would come while the wider Magic community was still talking about the change.
well hey.. i get cryogen's and MRHblue's response though, that when people ask for a response, they'd expect to have some amount of time to craft their comments (and perhaps filter out aggro stuff that seeped into the comments, and focus on their point) before sending it in. To be honest, I'm surprised that the RC and CAG had waited so long before asking for community feedback (I assumed they had already started gathering data from 'the community' way before this announcement). It's not exactly great having only given knee-jerk reaction-based comments (or perhaps just quickly written comments), since there's a chance for biases, but it is what it is.
But at the end of the day, I also get why it was done the way it was done; the RC+CAG were probably blindsided by the announcement from wizards, and hands were forced.
Personally, i don't think anyone would think that this was an unexpected development. What i think was unexpected was the sequence of events that led to it. Now that it's done though, i'm hoping no one is going to have regrets over this, mostly 'cuz it's what i'd call a storm in a teacup. It's probably for the best to just learn to sequence better, and move on.
....Did grenzo and serum powder spike overnight, by the way?
What did you find offputting about it? We sought input from the community, received overwhelming amounts of it very quickly, and came to a decision. We thought it would be best to not drag our feet on this decision as we didn't want to confuse the issue, so we made the announcement once everyone on the RC and CAG was in agreement.
Yes but remember, WE don't have the benefit of knowing how quickly and to what extent you received feedback. I'm sure that for many people they saw a tweet from Sheldon saying you guys were undecided and a tweet from the official account announcing the change at the same time.
The way it reads after the fact is "we are open to feedback (but we've pretty much reached a decision already). Now like I said, this decision was about as unexpected as a "no changes" ban list announcement, and I also realize that you've been listening to the community since Wizards announced they were floating the idea of going to the London mulligan. So this isn't critical rawr I'm upset feedback, merely commentary on the way the message was put out since it truly didn't feel like we had a true voice in feedback.
Yeah, with how fast that was the first post was pretty unnecessary. I'm sure people voiced their opinions at the RC the instant WotC put out the announcement, regardless of whether or not Sheldon claimed to be open to opinions.
I've always wondered why EDH / Commander never had a set mulligan rule for the format but now that we finally have one it seems as though there's been some backlash for it lately. One of my friends made an argument saying that since EDH / Commander is a casual format by default that it should be up to the players to decide what type of mulligan rule that their playgroup adopts. Problem is that it ends up creating an unfair advantage among players in a 4+ player pod or at least that's the way I potentially see it anyway.
As for me I personally don't have a problem with it but I understand that this is an issue that should be determined based on house rules. Friends of mine who I've been playing Magic with for years have been so used to the old mulligan rules (Partial Paris / Vancouver) that they think that the rules were fine the way they were. As long as I get used to the new change then it shouldn't be a problem though If other players want to mulligan the way they've been doing it for years then who are we to judge If that's how they enjoy playing Magic?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I've always wondered why EDH / Commander never had a set mulligan rule for the format but now that we finally have one it seems as though there's been some backlash for it lately. One of my friends made an argument saying that since EDH / Commander is a casual format by default that it should be up to the players to decide what type of mulligan rule that their playgroup adopts. Problem is that it ends up creating an unfair advantage among players in a 4+ player pod or at least that's the way I potentially see it anyway.
As for me I personally don't have a problem with it but I understand that this is an issue that should be determined based on house rules. Friends of mine who I've been playing Magic with for years have been so used to the old mulligan rules (Partial Paris / Vancouver) that they think that the rules were fine the way they were. As long as I get used to the new change then it shouldn't be a problem though If other players want to mulligan the way they've been doing it for years then who are we to judge If that's how they enjoy playing Magic?
Commander does have a set mulligan rule, its the same mulligan as every other format. At one point it was Partial Paris and there were rules outlining how that worked but as wizards moved to the Vancuver mulligans the rules committee decided to move away from Partial Paris and adopt the official mulligan rule that all other formats would be using. This reduced the number of rules for the format and brought it more in line with the other formats not to mention decreased the average speed of starting hands.
There is nothing saying people can't ask and suggest an alternate mulligan system for games. The rules committee usually encourages people to adapt based on what players want.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I have two EDH groups and both use the new mulligan. We like it, although the casual part of people preferred the old one. The strongest argument seems to be "this mulligan is used in each format", which helps to accept it.
We use the modification that you do have a free mulligan, you also have a free mulligan if you have no lands on your hand (reveal) and we put each unused hand to the side but shuffle them only into the library at the end of the whole mulligan procedure.
What I like most is that you don't do silly things like "oh 1 Sol Ring, 1 Land and the rest is *****. I put 5 cards away and draw better suff, but keep my very explosive start"
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U Unesh's Sphinx Storm U / R Ib's Goblins: What It Says On The Tin R / UR Okaun & Zndrsplt Flip Out UR
Oathbreaker: UB Ashiok's Persistent Nightmare UB
But at the end of the day, I also get why it was done the way it was done; the RC+CAG were probably blindsided by the announcement from wizards, and hands were forced.
Personally, i don't think anyone would think that this was an unexpected development. What i think was unexpected was the sequence of events that led to it. Now that it's done though, i'm hoping no one is going to have regrets over this, mostly 'cuz it's what i'd call a storm in a teacup. It's probably for the best to just learn to sequence better, and move on.
....Did grenzo and serum powder spike overnight, by the way?
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Yes but remember, WE don't have the benefit of knowing how quickly and to what extent you received feedback. I'm sure that for many people they saw a tweet from Sheldon saying you guys were undecided and a tweet from the official account announcing the change at the same time.
The way it reads after the fact is "we are open to feedback (but we've pretty much reached a decision already). Now like I said, this decision was about as unexpected as a "no changes" ban list announcement, and I also realize that you've been listening to the community since Wizards announced they were floating the idea of going to the London mulligan. So this isn't critical rawr I'm upset feedback, merely commentary on the way the message was put out since it truly didn't feel like we had a true voice in feedback.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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As for me I personally don't have a problem with it but I understand that this is an issue that should be determined based on house rules. Friends of mine who I've been playing Magic with for years have been so used to the old mulligan rules (Partial Paris / Vancouver) that they think that the rules were fine the way they were. As long as I get used to the new change then it shouldn't be a problem though If other players want to mulligan the way they've been doing it for years then who are we to judge If that's how they enjoy playing Magic?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Commander does have a set mulligan rule, its the same mulligan as every other format. At one point it was Partial Paris and there were rules outlining how that worked but as wizards moved to the Vancuver mulligans the rules committee decided to move away from Partial Paris and adopt the official mulligan rule that all other formats would be using. This reduced the number of rules for the format and brought it more in line with the other formats not to mention decreased the average speed of starting hands.
There is nothing saying people can't ask and suggest an alternate mulligan system for games. The rules committee usually encourages people to adapt based on what players want.
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So far, no real difference for me. It's made me mulligan more aggressively though, which is good; i tend to keep less greedy hands.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
We use the modification that you do have a free mulligan, you also have a free mulligan if you have no lands on your hand (reveal) and we put each unused hand to the side but shuffle them only into the library at the end of the whole mulligan procedure.
What I like most is that you don't do silly things like "oh 1 Sol Ring, 1 Land and the rest is *****. I put 5 cards away and draw better suff, but keep my very explosive start"