We recently had some discussion about it in the thread where someone asked the RC to allow planeswalker commanders but the reality of it is the RC said no to the entire concept and never even mentioned doubling season. Doubling Season would have to go probably to allow planeswalker commanders but thats assuming the RC is even ok with allowing them in the first place.
Without actually allowing PW commanders, the answer is no.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Meh. It's not really broken, just another very powerful enchantment when played with other cards. 5-6 mana enchantments that put you in the driver's seat are a dime a dozen. The reason they're so strong is that they are invariably static effects that you then require more mana and cards to capitalize on. I could probably list 10 more powerful 5-6 mana enchantments without even resorting to searching gatherer or edhrec.
As a total sidenote I suspect very strongly that if Wizards ever opens the doors to Planeswalkers in commander somehow that it will come with a fix to Planeswalkers; Loyalty has never made sense as a Counter, and the interaction with Doubling Season and cards like Vorel, the Hull Clade are just ridiculous.
It would be far more elegant to change that rule than have to ban nonsense like Deepglow Skate for comboing with everything blue in the command zone.
Even if Doubling Season were a problem, I'm not sure the Commander community would even want to ban the card to begin with. Doubling Season is one of the most cherished cards in the format.
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Even if Doubling Season were a problem, I'm not sure the Commander community would even want to ban the card to begin with. Doubling Season is one of the most cherished cards in the format.
I would say Prime Time used to fit that model, and he got the boot for sure.
But I agree with Onering, it does not seem to meet any ban criteria. I rarely see it, and its a kill on site for sure, but so are a dozen enchantments.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
As a total sidenote I suspect very strongly that if Wizards ever opens the doors to Planeswalkers in commander somehow that it will come with a fix to Planeswalkers; Loyalty has never made sense as a Counter, and the interaction with Doubling Season and cards like Vorel, the Hull Clade are just ridiculous.
It would be far more elegant to change that rule than have to ban nonsense like Deepglow Skate for comboing with everything blue in the command zone.
They have been not afraid to keep printing "can be your Commander" even outside of Commander specific product with the precedent set of Will Kenrith and Rowan Kenrith
I don't think they view how loyalty works as a mistake in the slightest and also the printing of Skate and that Atraxa deck seems to confirm that.
They have been not afraid to keep printing "can be your Commander" even outside of Commander specific product with the precedent set of Will Kenrith and Rowan Kenrith
I don't think they view how loyalty works as a mistake in the slightest and also the printing of Skate and that Atraxa deck seems to confirm that.
Do you think they intended those to be for planeswalkers, or for making giant creatures or giant Astral cornocopia or Dreadship Reef?
Evidence: Zero planeswalkers in the precon, alongside Vorel and Deepglow Skate (and yet reprints of Astral cornocopia and counter lands)
I'm sure someone in R&D was like "this can do cool stuff with walkers" but I doubt the design intention was specifically to enable people to ultimate walkers.
How many Planeswalkere have they put in Commander decks at all that was not the Commander?
My count is 2 one in 2011 and a Daretti reprint in Breya.
Using what they put in these decks seems a weird way to judge how they feel about the cards imo
Typically they cost too much - but my thinking is they would have slipped a couple in there if "here's your proliferate superfriends commander" is what they were going for vs. here's your proliferate commander that does a ton of different things and happens to interact with walkers.
Wizards has a long history of taking a very long time to fix stuff like this, and printing inconsistently with messaging as they're doing so (see the Brain in a Jar decks back before the CMC on the stack/hand change for split cards).
I'm not saying you're wrong, it's not really a thing we can know for sure, just giving you my opinion.
i don't really see it as a problem, really. It's a 5 mana enchantment that by itself, doesn't really do anything. compare to say aluren that usually kills the table the moment it lands.
Thing is, it doesn't warp the format, it interacts well with the general going-ons in at least my meta, it's not an auto-include to every deck that includes green, it somewhat warps what happens in-game once it's there, but by that time, it's mid-late to late game, and it's fine for games to end by that point.
I'm not really understanding the whole kerfuffle about this; is the doubling season ban-call because other players want PWs as generals? it seems like it's a lot of fuss about something that's not really in the works.
i don't really see it as a problem, really. It's a 5 mana enchantment that by itself, doesn't really do anything. compare to say aluren that usually kills the table the moment it lands.
Thing is, it doesn't warp the format, it interacts well with the general going-ons in at least my meta, it's not an auto-include to every deck that includes green, it somewhat warps what happens in-game once it's there, but by that time, it's mid-late to late game, and it's fine for games to end by that point.
I'm not really understanding the whole kerfuffle about this; is the doubling season ban-call because other players want PWs as generals? it seems like it's a lot of fuss about something that's not really in the works.
Basically. In the allow walkers as commanders thread, doubling season was brought up as potentially causing problems by letting a number of walkers immediately ult, which would be a problem coming out of the command zone. RC members have said that it would be banned if walkers were allowed as commanders more broadly.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Toby actually clarified and said that they would take a hard look at whether Doubling Season should be banned, but it wouldn't be a snap ban. I had misspoken initially.
It's another one of those cards that does nothing in a vacuum. It requires other cards to makes it do stupid things, so I don't see it as being a potential banlist candidate.
Some say it's one of the reasons why we don't have PW commanders
And those people have no idea what they are talking about.
Edit : To Clarify, Almost Doubling Season Planeswalker Ult that would be available to you has a more practical alternative, the only real exception to this is Tamiyo, Field Researcher.
And those people have no idea what they are talking about.
Oh really?
Quote from Toby Elliott »
I think letting all Planeswalkers be commanders ends up a net negative for the format. We probably end up having to ban Doubling Season.
This was from Toby's article on SCG a few months ago here.
True, Doubling Season would be an incidental casualty if planeswalkers became legal commanders. That is not the same thing as Doubling Season being the reason why they are not legal - the reason why is because the RC doesn't want them to be. The format was formed around legendary creatures, not legendary planeswalkers, lands, enchantments, artifacts, or sorceries.
Without actually allowing PW commanders, the answer is no.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
And that's not even getting into cheaper ones like Food Chain or Aluren or Mana echoes.
As a total sidenote I suspect very strongly that if Wizards ever opens the doors to Planeswalkers in commander somehow that it will come with a fix to Planeswalkers; Loyalty has never made sense as a Counter, and the interaction with Doubling Season and cards like Vorel, the Hull Clade are just ridiculous.
It would be far more elegant to change that rule than have to ban nonsense like Deepglow Skate for comboing with everything blue in the command zone.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
But I agree with Onering, it does not seem to meet any ban criteria. I rarely see it, and its a kill on site for sure, but so are a dozen enchantments.
They have been not afraid to keep printing "can be your Commander" even outside of Commander specific product with the precedent set of Will Kenrith and Rowan Kenrith
I don't think they view how loyalty works as a mistake in the slightest and also the printing of Skate and that Atraxa deck seems to confirm that.
Do you think they intended those to be for planeswalkers, or for making giant creatures or giant Astral cornocopia or Dreadship Reef?
Evidence: Zero planeswalkers in the precon, alongside Vorel and Deepglow Skate (and yet reprints of Astral cornocopia and counter lands)
I'm sure someone in R&D was like "this can do cool stuff with walkers" but I doubt the design intention was specifically to enable people to ultimate walkers.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
My count is 2 one in 2011 and a Daretti reprint in Breya.
Using what they put in these decks seems a weird way to judge how they feel about the cards imo
Typically they cost too much - but my thinking is they would have slipped a couple in there if "here's your proliferate superfriends commander" is what they were going for vs. here's your proliferate commander that does a ton of different things and happens to interact with walkers.
Wizards has a long history of taking a very long time to fix stuff like this, and printing inconsistently with messaging as they're doing so (see the Brain in a Jar decks back before the CMC on the stack/hand change for split cards).
I'm not saying you're wrong, it's not really a thing we can know for sure, just giving you my opinion.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
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Thing is, it doesn't warp the format, it interacts well with the general going-ons in at least my meta, it's not an auto-include to every deck that includes green, it somewhat warps what happens in-game once it's there, but by that time, it's mid-late to late game, and it's fine for games to end by that point.
I'm not really understanding the whole kerfuffle about this; is the doubling season ban-call because other players want PWs as generals? it seems like it's a lot of fuss about something that's not really in the works.
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Basically. In the allow walkers as commanders thread, doubling season was brought up as potentially causing problems by letting a number of walkers immediately ult, which would be a problem coming out of the command zone. RC members have said that it would be banned if walkers were allowed as commanders more broadly.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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And those people have no idea what they are talking about.
Edit : To Clarify, Almost Doubling Season Planeswalker Ult that would be available to you has a more practical alternative, the only real exception to this is Tamiyo, Field Researcher.
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This was from Toby's article on SCG a few months ago here.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
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