Whew! Vigorous debate going on. Myself, I just added both Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire in my non-cEDH Sliver Queen deck. As a go-wide deck, if I don’t get a token bomb, I actually need a couple game bombs that fuel off of Gaea’s Cradle. Game’s gotta end at some point, and if I have twenty critters out, I should be able to end it. It’s not easy to get that many creatures out and keep ‘em.
I'm assuming you don't play with a lot of ramp decks based on your apparent misconceptions about how fast things go with 75% ramp decks.. If my Gitrog deck isn't at 15+ mana by turn 5, that's pretty unusual. My record is 76 or so on turn 6 (off a t5 great aurora -> genesis wave for 17).
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
My gitrog deck? Yeah, go compare it to a CEDH gitrog deck It's definitely tuned down quite a lot. I've played vs CEDH decks and I'm lucky to take 1/10 at a CEDH table. It's geared to win in the midgame (T5-8 or so). Maybe it's an 80-85% deck? I tend to lump everything "powerful but not highly competitive" in that category.
It's not at all atypical of what I see power-level wise on a regular basis, especially if you're talking just about ramp. And my store is one of the least competitive I've seen in the area.
My gitrog deck? Yeah, go compare it to a CEDH gitrog deck It's definitely tuned down quite a lot. I've played vs CEDH decks and I'm lucky to take 1/10 at a CEDH table. It's geared to win in the midgame (T5-8 or so). Maybe it's an 80-85% deck? I tend to lump everything "powerful but not highly competitive" in that category.
It's not at all atypical of what I see power-level wise on a regular basis, especially if you're talking just about ramp. And my store is one of the least competitive I've seen in the area.
It might not be 100%, but thats a bit too much for 75%. Its more like 87%
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Coincidentally, I got hit by a Torment of Hailfire for x=18 yesterday.
I won the turn after. And this was in a 75% meta, so...
Honestly, it's a good card. But between Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless, it's rather pitiful. It's also a hilariously dead card against token decks. And if you can build up, say, 15 mana to fire off one for a relatively high amount, this will also mean your opponents probably have a lot of mana/cards as well.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Whew! Vigorous debate going on. Myself, I just added both Exsanguinate and Torment of Hailfire in my non-cEDH Sliver Queen deck. As a go-wide deck, if I don’t get a token bomb, I actually need a couple game bombs that fuel off of Gaea’s Cradle. Game’s gotta end at some point, and if I have twenty critters out, I should be able to end it. It’s not easy to get that many creatures out and keep ‘em.
A bit late to this, but...
Yes, a 'vigorous debate', if you consider Proof by Assertion to be a debate.
Pokken has continued to make an assertion, despite everyone else involved refuting it with grounds. His or her argument has also included some elements of Moving the Goalpost.
I honestly feel like that's a needlessly harsh characterization of this thread as well as me. I don't know why you would show up weeks after a thread was over and I admitted I was wrong and say something like this except to try to be hurtful.
It's not at all atypical of what I see power-level wise on a regular basis, especially if you're talking just about ramp. And my store is one of the least competitive I've seen in the area.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
It might not be 100%, but thats a bit too much for 75%. Its more like 87%
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I won the turn after. And this was in a 75% meta, so...
Honestly, it's a good card. But between Exsanguinate and Debt to the Deathless, it's rather pitiful. It's also a hilariously dead card against token decks. And if you can build up, say, 15 mana to fire off one for a relatively high amount, this will also mean your opponents probably have a lot of mana/cards as well.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
A bit late to this, but...
Yes, a 'vigorous debate', if you consider Proof by Assertion to be a debate.
Pokken has continued to make an assertion, despite everyone else involved refuting it with grounds. His or her argument has also included some elements of Moving the Goalpost.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall