My group has been discussing the idea of vehicles having the creature types of the creatures crewing said vehicle, whilst it is a creature. With the last few releases having lots of vehicle and tribal support, my group have been making lots of tribal decks, and many of them using vehicles.
The discussion arose when our pirate player had a couple of the pirate vehicles out like Sleek Schooner, but never attacked with them due to them not triggering Admiral Beckett Brass. We all agreed it was a flavour fail having a pirate crewing a pirate themed vehicle not being a pirate. The discussion went on to flavour fails in general, how we overlook the ones that work in our favour, earlier in the night I had a Goat token voltroned up, and we've seen Lightning Greaves on vehicles before.
What do you guys think of the idea of vehicles gaining the creature types?
It seems like a neat idea, but given that these(vehicles) are a new concept, I think it's enough that they become a base artifact creature for now. Perhaps in the near future(if not already), vehicles will get an anthem effect for themselves. I just don't see a justification yet for forcing vehicles into a theme: sure, schooners are mostly associated with pirates, but not always. And why pirates, anyway? Rogues would have just as much claim to a schooner, agreed? I just think it's too much fiddling over a cosmetic deal, in the end. Do agree it would be fun, however.
In the meantime, if your friend was looking for ideas, changelings are always a good idea to get a 'full tribal' feel when you're almost there...this card works well, too
I just don't see a justification yet for forcing vehicles into a theme: sure, schooners are mostly associated with pirates, but not always. And why pirates, anyway? Rogues would have just as much claim to a schooner, agreed?
That't not really what we were getting at. The idea is that if you crew the Schooner with Wily Goblin, the Schooner becomes a Artifact Creature - Vehicle Goblin Pirate. If you crew it with a Fyndhorn Elves it becomes an Artifact Creature - Vehicle Elf Druid. The idea is the vehicle gains the creature type(s) of the creature(s) crewing it.
I did get that, and I did address that, flavor/lore/mechanic-wise. Additionally, WotC would probably also have to come up with a keyword for such an ability, which could cram text pretty badly on vehicle cards for at least a block or two with reminder text in addition. So there's that too.
Again, neat idea, but I don't see it catching on for practical reasons just yet.
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I don't think it really breaks anything, but I also don't think it makes sense flavorfully. No, the boat being piloted by a pirate is not itself a pirate, and it does not become a soldier when the pirate is captured and his boat commandeered by the government. It's a boat.
So, your proposal would allow me to crew a vehicle with Experiment Kraj, Higure, and Thriving Turtle to make the vehicle an Ooze Mutant Ninja Turtle (plus human)? That joke was low-hanging fruit, but it serves a purpose. What do you accomplish by adding this ability to absorb creature types? What's the advantage? Just for tribal pump? It seems to add unnecessary complication.
They already had to abstract the idea of a vehicle to make it work - for example, if a creature crews a vehicle, and I blow up the vehicle, the creature somehow avoids perishing with the vehicle. They could have tied the creature's fate to the vehicle, which seems to make sense flavorfully, but it leads to bad game play. All of a sudden, Naturalize can 2-for-1 and kill a non-artifact creature because it was sitting in the vehicle. Or can it? I suppose that makes sense for an airship, because the creature would fall from the sky and go splat (unless it has flying, of course), but that doesn't make sense for a simple wagon, where the creature just plops on its butt on the road. So, to make it flavorful, now we need to weigh out all the different variables and make a case-by-case ruling, right?
Bottom line, we really don't want to see how deep the "flavorful" rabbit-hole goes. The KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid) tends to make for far better gameplay. This is a game, not a story, and the mechanics sometimes need to override flavor.
I don't think your idea is necessarily bad, nor is it overpowered - it's just an unnecessary complication to how vehicles work.
I don't think it really breaks anything, but I also don't think it makes sense flavorfully. No, the boat being piloted by a pirate is not itself a pirate, and it does not become a soldier when the pirate is captured and his boat commandeered by the government. It's a boat.
But what about when the boat becomes piloted by Pirate Ship, which is a boat that is in fact a pirate? I bet you didn't think about THAT huh smart guy. Bonus, jumping in a boat lets the Pirate Ship attack people who don't have islands. Also, the boat is equipped with a helmet.
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Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
It doesn't make sense. If an effect pumps your elves, and they crew a vehicle, then they've already received that benefit by having a higher power with which to crew that vehicle. If an effect gives attacking elves death touch, why should it affect the vehicle they're crewing? The vehicle is what's actually blasting the opponent, the elves are just driving it.
So, your proposal would allow me to crew a vehicle with Experiment Kraj, Higure, and Thriving Turtle to make the vehicle an Ooze Mutant Ninja Turtle (plus human)? ...
*facepalm* You know you're a 90s kid when the first thing to pop into your head is "Oozy Mutant Ninja Turtles"...and yes, you're singing it to THAT theme song.
Perhaps in the near future(if not already), vehicles will get an anthem effect for themselves.
They already got one, if you don't mind paying an arm and a leg for it: Grimlock, Dinobot Leader
Depala, Pilot Exemplar is pretty cheap, and is literally an anthem for vehicles, that also draws you more vehicles. There's also a handful of cards that specifically boost vehicles, either single vehicles or all your vehicles. Granted, most are limited fodder and all are from Kaladesh block, but still, vehicles have gotten type based support. I'd like to see a bit more pop up, but it depends on the plane.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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The discussion arose when our pirate player had a couple of the pirate vehicles out like Sleek Schooner, but never attacked with them due to them not triggering Admiral Beckett Brass. We all agreed it was a flavour fail having a pirate crewing a pirate themed vehicle not being a pirate. The discussion went on to flavour fails in general, how we overlook the ones that work in our favour, earlier in the night I had a Goat token voltroned up, and we've seen Lightning Greaves on vehicles before.
What do you guys think of the idea of vehicles gaining the creature types?
In the meantime, if your friend was looking for ideas, changelings are always a good idea to get a 'full tribal' feel when you're almost there...this card works well, too
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
That't not really what we were getting at. The idea is that if you crew the Schooner with Wily Goblin, the Schooner becomes a Artifact Creature - Vehicle Goblin Pirate. If you crew it with a Fyndhorn Elves it becomes an Artifact Creature - Vehicle Elf Druid. The idea is the vehicle gains the creature type(s) of the creature(s) crewing it.
Again, neat idea, but I don't see it catching on for practical reasons just yet.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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They already had to abstract the idea of a vehicle to make it work - for example, if a creature crews a vehicle, and I blow up the vehicle, the creature somehow avoids perishing with the vehicle. They could have tied the creature's fate to the vehicle, which seems to make sense flavorfully, but it leads to bad game play. All of a sudden, Naturalize can 2-for-1 and kill a non-artifact creature because it was sitting in the vehicle. Or can it? I suppose that makes sense for an airship, because the creature would fall from the sky and go splat (unless it has flying, of course), but that doesn't make sense for a simple wagon, where the creature just plops on its butt on the road. So, to make it flavorful, now we need to weigh out all the different variables and make a case-by-case ruling, right?
Bottom line, we really don't want to see how deep the "flavorful" rabbit-hole goes. The KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid) tends to make for far better gameplay. This is a game, not a story, and the mechanics sometimes need to override flavor.
I don't think your idea is necessarily bad, nor is it overpowered - it's just an unnecessary complication to how vehicles work.
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But what about when the boat becomes piloted by Pirate Ship, which is a boat that is in fact a pirate? I bet you didn't think about THAT huh smart guy. Bonus, jumping in a boat lets the Pirate Ship attack people who don't have islands. Also, the boat is equipped with a helmet.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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*facepalm* You know you're a 90s kid when the first thing to pop into your head is "Oozy Mutant Ninja Turtles"...and yes, you're singing it to THAT theme song.
Sorry for the tangent I blame FunkyDragon.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
They already got one, if you don't mind paying an arm and a leg for it: Grimlock, Dinobot Leader
My Friend Code is: 0146-9645-8893
Depala, Pilot Exemplar is pretty cheap, and is literally an anthem for vehicles, that also draws you more vehicles. There's also a handful of cards that specifically boost vehicles, either single vehicles or all your vehicles. Granted, most are limited fodder and all are from Kaladesh block, but still, vehicles have gotten type based support. I'd like to see a bit more pop up, but it depends on the plane.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!