BUT, when Hour of Promise comes available, all sorts of land hijinks will become available like Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage, Gaea's Cradle/Kessig Wolf Run, Cabal Coffers/Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth, Glacial Chasm/Maze of Ith, or even just grindier stuff like Strip Mine/Wasteland or two guild double mana lands like Orzhov Basilica and the other nine lands. While one can already tutor land in plenty of ways, it takes multiple cards. Here, one card assembles the combo with no fuss.
Is Hour of Promise doomed to go like Primeval Titan into ban hammer territory? Will it warp battlecruiser edh?
If it isn't, I'll totally use it for Gaea's Cradle/Kessig Wolf Run in my hydra deck, and to get more expensive angels out 3-4 turns faster in my Jenara deck. I mean, why not?
Meh. I don't think that it will be a big deal. Primeval Titan was so problematic because it was a creature that could easily be tutored/cheated, cloned, and flickered.
Hour of Promise isn't going to cause any problems. Primeval Titan's crime was that it was a creature, making it easier to abuse, and could use its ability repeatedly. Hour of Promise is just a one-shot effect that doesn't have that problem.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
See also Ulvenwald Hydra. While it's true that he only gets 1 land, it still tends to be enough to fill an Urborg-Coffers combo, or to get a Nykthos to go with a Cradle. And nobody's clamoring for his ban.
Prime Time's constant copying, reanimating and stealing made him banworthy. Aside from Mono-W, EVERY deck could use a Prime Time no matter which side it ended up on. Red would "borrow" it for 2 quick lands. Blue would copy it and go to town with it. Black would reanimate it and get more lands. Green would just cast it.
All that isn't possible with Hour of Promise.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
It costs almost as much as Primeval Titan while being harder to tutor and abuse. I think it will be fine.
Primeval Titan got banned because everyone would tutor and abuse it. It was honestly strongest for blue and black players as while green could tutor it into play, they needed the other colors to abuse it. This new spell is MUCH harder to abuse as for the most part you are down to green's Regrowths and a few blue effects that are also hard to abuse and are narrow to abuse it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Well, you can copy it with Twincast/Fork spells, but that's mostly the caster and only once since you know it's coming. It can also be Spelltwined and similar cards but most of them exile it. I actually think it might be becoming more an argument for unbanning Prime Time, not banning this. Afterall, ramp is sweet but leads to diminishing returns once you hit whatever your optimal mode is. We already have too much big ramp to run it all unless you're Omanath, Locus of Rage or some kind of commander Lands.dec. Afterall, the opponent abuse would likely go down since it probably wouldn't be in as many decks even though it's a good card. Sure, Omanath would love to have it and Ob Nixilis 1 would love to steal it, but without Emrakul 1, needing huge amounts of mana is probably down for a lot of decks. We also have more doublers, 2 land rampers, multiple triple land rampers that either gain a bonus 7 life or double as 6 +1/+1 counters or 3 permanent cards in addition to Boundless Realms. We also have more cards like the nonland clone and that new clone artifact or even the clone/copy land from Oath. Titan is a strong card, but at $12 and some amount more after a possible unban, it probably will make people think about whether they really even want it in the deck unlike when it was in standard. Afterall, the whole playing to abuse an opposing Titan only works if it's in enough decks that you expect it to be in pretty much every game. I wonder if we have so much ramp that it would be the next Kokusho where it's a good card but no longer centralizes games. Afterall, we have a lot more cards that make it easier for decks to hit 10 mana.
Speaking of ban-hammers, what needs to be banned is advertisers on this site who have these "instant gift card" pop ups that can't gotten rid of and keep popping up repeatedly on smart phones...so annoying, but I digress.
How is this card even remotely an issue? I had to read it 3 times to make sure I wasn't missing something insanely broken. It's a card that tutors for 2 nonbasic lands and puts some zombies into play if you're playing deserts for some reason. There are so many nonbasic land tutors around that having one that searches for 2 at once isn't an actual factor.
How is this card even remotely an issue? I had to read it 3 times to make sure I wasn't missing something insanely broken. It's a card that tutors for 2 nonbasic lands and puts some zombies into play if you're playing deserts for some reason. There are so many nonbasic land tutors around that having one that searches for 2 at once isn't an actual factor.
Allow me to apologize for wasting your time, then. I'm still fairly new to the format, saw a thread talking about all the degenrate things you can fetch with this instead of having to do it with multiple cards like Exp. Map and Sylvan Scrying, so thought it was a decent question to ask. Apparently it wasn't?
How is this card even remotely an issue? I had to read it 3 times to make sure I wasn't missing something insanely broken. It's a card that tutors for 2 nonbasic lands and puts some zombies into play if you're playing deserts for some reason. There are so many nonbasic land tutors around that having one that searches for 2 at once isn't an actual factor.
Allow me to apologize for wasting your time, then. I'm still fairly new to the format, saw a thread talking about all the degenrate things you can fetch with this instead of having to do it with multiple cards like Exp. Map and Sylvan Scrying, so thought it was a decent question to ask. Apparently it wasn't?
Eh...its fine. The one thing to keep in mind with EDH is that there are plenty of degenerate interactions. It's up to you and your group to determine how degenerate you go.
This card seems powerful (and it can be) but in the context of the format, there are more powerful things you can do to win much faster. Even a 20/20 flyer takes 6 turn to beat everyone.
Don't worry about bringing the topic up. I think others had similar feelings (maybe not ban-worthy) that this was a powerful card and the discussion is still worth having.
Speaking of ban-hammers, what needs to be banned is advertisers on this site who have these "instant gift card" pop ups that can't gotten rid of and keep popping up repeatedly on smart phones...so annoying, but I digress.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Primeval Titan was worth playing even if he ate a Doom Blade before seeing a single combat phase. That implies that Hour of Promise will be worth playing. However, it is much harder for a green deck to tutor Hour of Promise than Primetime, and there are fewer cards that opponents can play to steal or copy it. This will make it much less of a centralizing card. Where Primetime turned games into "catch the giant", I predict few if any games will do the same to a sorcery, and that centralization was one of the key factors that led to Primetime's ban.
How is this card even remotely an issue? I had to read it 3 times to make sure I wasn't missing something insanely broken. It's a card that tutors for 2 nonbasic lands and puts some zombies into play if you're playing deserts for some reason. There are so many nonbasic land tutors around that having one that searches for 2 at once isn't an actual factor.
Allow me to apologize for wasting your time, then. I'm still fairly new to the format, saw a thread talking about all the degenrate things you can fetch with this instead of having to do it with multiple cards like Exp. Map and Sylvan Scrying, so thought it was a decent question to ask. Apparently it wasn't?
Your question was fine. My remark was more directed at the overreactions in the thread you linked. As for those multiple cards, once you reach such a high threshold of cards that do a single thing such that any 2 of them work together, it's not as much of a point of argument when compared to other multi-card interactions.
The correct answer with any tempting offer card is to make the decision which nets the caster the least benefit, unless taking the offer will win you the game. This is why you decline to search with Tempt With Discovery, and you choose money with Expropriate.
I think this card is decent, but nothing special and probably won't make too much of a splash in the format.
The correct answer with any tempting offer card is to make the decision which nets the caster the least benefit, unless taking the offer will win you the game. This is why you decline to search with Tempt With Discovery, and you choose money with Expropriate.
This is why you decline to search with Tempt With Discovery, and you choose money with Expropriate.
Nit: Expropriate is Council's Dilemma, not Tempting Offer.
I will say that refusing the offer is almost always the correct choice for Tempting Offer, however if you're right of the TwD player and everybody else has taken the offer already (the decision to take the temptation or not is made in turn order), searching for Strip Mine/Wasteland/etc. is going to be a better idea.
It's also worth remembering that you get to see the first land chosen by the TwD player before making the decision to take the temptation or not.
The correct answer with any tempting offer card is to make the decision which nets the caster the least benefit, unless taking the offer will win you the game. This is why you decline to search with Tempt With Discovery, and you choose money with Expropriate.
Even that has exceptions. We had a game with Havoc Festival out and everyone getting dangerously low on life when someone played Expropriate. Everyone groaned about it, but I convinced them to choose time, figuring that if he didn't get an answer to Havoc Festival, the extra turns would kill him. Sure enough, he died after that many extra upkeeps.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/casual-related-formats/multiplayer/778937-hour-of-promise-is-going-to-be-greens-gray
BUT, when Hour of Promise comes available, all sorts of land hijinks will become available like Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage, Gaea's Cradle/Kessig Wolf Run, Cabal Coffers/Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth, Glacial Chasm/Maze of Ith, or even just grindier stuff like Strip Mine/Wasteland or two guild double mana lands like Orzhov Basilica and the other nine lands. While one can already tutor land in plenty of ways, it takes multiple cards. Here, one card assembles the combo with no fuss.
Is Hour of Promise doomed to go like Primeval Titan into ban hammer territory? Will it warp battlecruiser edh?
If it isn't, I'll totally use it for Gaea's Cradle/Kessig Wolf Run in my hydra deck, and to get more expensive angels out 3-4 turns faster in my Jenara deck. I mean, why not?
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
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Prime Time's constant copying, reanimating and stealing made him banworthy. Aside from Mono-W, EVERY deck could use a Prime Time no matter which side it ended up on. Red would "borrow" it for 2 quick lands. Blue would copy it and go to town with it. Black would reanimate it and get more lands. Green would just cast it.
All that isn't possible with Hour of Promise.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Primeval Titan got banned because everyone would tutor and abuse it. It was honestly strongest for blue and black players as while green could tutor it into play, they needed the other colors to abuse it. This new spell is MUCH harder to abuse as for the most part you are down to green's Regrowths and a few blue effects that are also hard to abuse and are narrow to abuse it.
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While this card is nice, it doesn't seem broken to me.
This card seems good to set up a couple two land "combos" but nothing ban worthy.
This card seems powerful (and it can be) but in the context of the format, there are more powerful things you can do to win much faster. Even a 20/20 flyer takes 6 turn to beat everyone.
Don't worry about bringing the topic up. I think others had similar feelings (maybe not ban-worthy) that this was a powerful card and the discussion is still worth having.
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Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Your question was fine. My remark was more directed at the overreactions in the thread you linked. As for those multiple cards, once you reach such a high threshold of cards that do a single thing such that any 2 of them work together, it's not as much of a point of argument when compared to other multi-card interactions.
The correct answer against Tempt with Discovery is always to search for land destruction lands. (Strip Mine, Wasteland, Tectonic Edge, etc...)
The correct answer with any tempting offer card is to make the decision which nets the caster the least benefit, unless taking the offer will win you the game. This is why you decline to search with Tempt With Discovery, and you choose money with Expropriate.
I think this card is decent, but nothing special and probably won't make too much of a splash in the format.
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Fair.
And yeah, this care doesn't seem ban-worthy.
I will say that refusing the offer is almost always the correct choice for Tempting Offer, however if you're right of the TwD player and everybody else has taken the offer already (the decision to take the temptation or not is made in turn order), searching for Strip Mine/Wasteland/etc. is going to be a better idea.
It's also worth remembering that you get to see the first land chosen by the TwD player before making the decision to take the temptation or not.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
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