The "clean" method is the third option purposed by Ava, even stated by Wednesday as being the "cleanest".
Its also the option that provides the least power to wishes if given a purpose, its also the option that requires no card banned, its also an option that requires no wishboard, its also an option that is the least likely to cause a big price spike, its already had a precedent which means using those rules is not that out there really. Its literally the safest option if change were to occur.
It can be argued the logistics of it, like what caused the social contract mess of an argument in the first place, but it still remains the better method purposed. Also that the only counter arguments to it are literally: Citing rules 0 and 13.
Also Blue are you really going down this route? Because Karn, the Great Creator is a modern day wish spell, just like Coax from the Blind Eternities. They are wish spells that also retrieve from exile. That what they are doing is the modern equivalent of the very same function prior to magic 2010 like if a spell was RFG with swords to plowshares. Fancy that. Its almost like your argument about me not knowing how wishes worked was a hugely false statement in a poor man's attempt to discredit me.
Also on the Shahrazad thing, don't talk about unrelated stuff that no bearing on the discussion, simple as that. Keep it on subject Blue or don't post it at all. If Blue wants to defend his unrelated topic to make it have relevance, they are contributing less than I was.
In fact both MHRBlue and Kamino_Taka have contributed very little in this revived discussion aside from thanking each other as if that gives them credibility. The only ones who seem to be actually doing the legwork for this discussion are Ava, ForgottenOne, and CrimsonWings_3689. Which is two in favor of wishes, one against wishes. I don't include myself as I will admit that I mostly just been the peanut gallery for this discussion.
The "clean" method is the third option purposed by Ava, even stated by Wednesday as being the "cleanest".
So then your cleanest option is that you can only grab stuff from exile from it? You think that is the cleanest answer but Forgottet One and Impossible would argue that that version is not the cleanest at all (Impossible by saying special rules for certain cards is not a clean cut answer at all e.g. not getting cards from outside the game, just from exile)(Forgotted one by "there is no rule that blanks its text box" as it doesn't blank all but still blanks part of it.)
Its literally the safest option if change were to occur.
I agree that it would be among the safest option if change were to occur, no change would still be at least equally safe if not safer because of the status quo.
Also that the only counter arguments to it are literally: Citing rules 0 and 13.
And the general magic rules just because the streamlining of rules and zones have gotten rid of wish funktionality doesn't mean they get an automatic errata to get stuff from exile. Just because Anya, Merciless Angel exists doesn't mean that Serra Ascendant is automatically erratad to "10 more than your starting total" it is still 30 life. Sure Wotc is aware that future wishcards should behave that way but even they dont errata the old ones even when they had the chance
Blues point about Sharazad was an example against the "3) If a player would hypothetically misbehave with using wishes, they are obviously violating the social contract / gentleman's agreement." argument stating that that argument can be used against anything be it banned cards or wishes.
In fact both MHRBlue and Kamino_Taka have contributed very little in this revived discussion
if you percive it this way fine I came in from the other thread and chimed in with my own arguments and reasoning for/against proposed solutions, and reasonings to why I agree/disagree with certain arguments. So at least I think I contributed to this discussion whether you agree or disagree with my agruments/reasoning is a different matter. And that goes for most people here, just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they didn't contribute, just because somethings for you are a non argument doesn't neccesairly mean it is a non argument in general.
I did say I thought it was technically the cleanest of three, however I would still not be in favor of the change.
A one line rule that makes them somewhat functional is appealing, but by not working as printed OR as referenced in the oracle text it will likely cause some confusion. Additionally, “get from exile” cards such as Riftsweeper and Pull From Eternity are barely played as it is, so it’s unlikely that the wishes will even get seen in general.
The absolute cleanest way would be for it to “grab any card from your collection” as per the oracle, but that would be utterly atrocious.
I heard you all have a thread with my name on it. I'm all in favor of wishes as they are actually one of the more fun elements in the game. Wishboard of 10 please and thank you.
One of my big complaints about wishes in commander has been the consistant stance of the RC that "y'all figure it out yourselves". Every other time there has ever been a confusing aspect about an individual card or type of cards, the RC has had a specific ruling on how it would work in commander. They also repeated have a track records of making it so as many cards as possible do work in the format even changing the rules to do.
You're commander must be a legends elder dragon, changed to any legendary creature.
Bosh and Memnarch don't work as commanders because they are colorless, invented the whole concept of color identity to fix this.
Relentless Rats is printed, RC decides it's okay to wave the singleton rule for certain cards.
Extort is printed on cards that my mono color deck wants to play, RC says it's okay to play them in monocolor decks.
The only time I ever think the RC decided to make certain cards harder to play was with hybrid, by defining the cards as both colors.
I just wish that they'd made an official 'this is how they work' for wishes and it shouldn't be "It's a blank card".
The "clean" method is the third option purposed by Ava, even stated by Wednesday as being the "cleanest".
Functional errata for a set of cards so they no longer function in compatibility with the Comp rules is the cleanest idea ? Good, then its settled : No changes.
Also Blue are you really going down this route? Because Karn, the Great Creator is a modern day wish spell, just like Coax from the Blind Eternities. They are wish spells that also retrieve from exile. That what they are doing is the modern equivalent of the very same function prior to magic 2010 like if a spell was RFG with swords to plowshares. Fancy that. Its almost like your argument about me not knowing how wishes worked was a hugely false statement in a poor man's attempt to discredit me.
No, both those cards say "or", exactly why cards with the 'wish' functionality should not be banned. The 'clean method' has no such rider. It is functional errata.
Keep it on subject Blue or don't post it at all.
Random forum posters still don't dictate how I post. I also love the missed irony.
I just wish that they'd made an official 'this is how they work' for wishes and it shouldn't be "It's a blank card".
They did, you just don't like it. Rule 13 is direct and easy to understand. Its like hybrid: Yes it could work if they changed the rules. They have a position, and said its the baseline. Groups are free to do anything they like. Its exactly on point with other decisions made.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
The "cleanest" solution is to make wishes conform to the comp rules and get rid of the inconsistency they currently have with their "we don't do functional errata except when we do" approach. To do this, the RC should let wishes function how the rules say they work. Of course, to do this they need to a) create a defined sideboard for sanctioned play, and b) work with wizards to add a rule that gives wishes a limited scope so that the card you pull has to be within your CI, not already be in your 100, and not be banned.
What I propose isn't actually a very difficult thing to do, but it comes with it's own set of problems. I don't subscribe to the notion of "we want to differentiate ourselves from competitive Magoc" because much like PBtE, it's an antiquated idea. And as I mentioned earlier, I play in a casual league which is technically sanctioned. The bigger problems insee are:
Confusion - with two different rules you will inevitably have arguments over which sideboard you can use.
Slow play - digging through a collection to find one particular card
Poor game play - what are people going to actually do with wishes? Grabbing a doom blade? Cool, but a regular tutor works just as well. Grabbing a specific hoser that isn't good enough to run on it's own merit? Lame.
So although I think the "best" solution is the one which gives wishes a very definitive answer, the most practical one which creates the best gameplay experience is the current solution we have in place.
To reduce slow play, why not just make it so you can't dig through a non-wishboard source? That way if you only have, say 10, cards and you have packed say 3 sorceries and are looking for a sorcery with a Burning Wish, you only have 3 choices. Plus you can't shuffle anyway which is another time consumer.
To reduce slow play, why not just make it so you can't dig through a non-wishboard source? That way if you only have, say 10, cards and you have packed say 3 sorceries and are looking for a sorcery with a Burning Wish, you only have 3 choices. Plus you can't shuffle anyway which is another time consumer.
Sure, but we are still at the original problem of saying the RC needs to create a concrete definition, either through working with WotC to make the comp rules and Oracle allow wishes to be defined in Commander, or by creating functional errata. If you're on the latter side, then you just dont like the errata they came up with.
To reduce slow play, why not just make it so you can't dig through a non-wishboard source? That way if you only have, say 10, cards and you have packed say 3 sorceries and are looking for a sorcery with a Burning Wish, you only have 3 choices. Plus you can't shuffle anyway which is another time consumer.
Sure, but we are still at the original problem of saying the RC needs to create a concrete definition, either through working with WotC to make the comp rules and Oracle allow wishes to be defined in Commander, or by creating functional errata. If you're on the latter side, then you just dont like the errata they came up with.
I'll go on the record and say that while all of this seems plausible, and is likely the best case scenario in favor of wishes, it's a significant amount of effort to make ~10 cards work.
Things that would need to happen to allow for wishes in Commander:
WotC needs to define/errata how the wishes work in Commander
The RC needs to define a side/wishboard rule
The RC needs to clarify, within the rules of Commander, what can/can't be in the sideboard
The issues this causes are as follows:
Sideboards become a thing... This is an issue because the whole slow play thing is now magnified. If people start running hoser/color hate cards to side in between games, they then may choose to side in some of those cards versus the current landscape of the table... now they're mulling over what they can afford to take out for the hoser cards...
In addition to the above point, cards that people can't justify running in their mainboard (silver bullet answers), suddenly see an increase in play via wishes or sideboarding between games. If it's not worth running the majority of the time, you shouldn't be running it.
Deck building can very likely go from "Commander + 99 cards" to "Commander + 99 cards(+ defined sideboard amount) - # of wish effects you can run in your colors". This results in people being less selective in what they choose to run because wishes can be multiple things.
People get access to more than 100 cards in a given game. Players are then incentivized to play wishes and to copy them to have/pull more resources than your opponents. This also means that it is possible, through multiple means, that more than 100 cards can be in the game between library, hand, board, graveyard and exile.
It may just be my opinion, but the issues brought about by enabling wishes outweigh the potential benefits. The concessions that would have to be made to allow for them to function isn't worth the effort and long term damage on the games yet to be played and the deck construction process over all.
I'll go on the record and say that while all of this seems plausible, and is likely the best case scenario in favor of wishes, it's a significant amount of effort to make ~10 cards work.
Things that would need to happen to allow for wishes in Commander:
WotC needs to define/errata how the wishes work in Commander
The RC needs to define a side/wishboard rule
The RC needs to clarify, within the rules of Commander, what can/can't be in the sideboard
The issues this causes are as follows:
Sideboards become a thing... This is an issue because the whole slow play thing is now magnified. If people start running hoser/color hate cards to side in between games, they then may choose to side in some of those cards versus the current landscape of the table... now they're mulling over what they can afford to take out for the hoser cards...
In addition to the above point, cards that people can't justify running in their mainboard (silver bullet answers), suddenly see an increase in play via wishes or sideboarding between games. If it's not worth running the majority of the time, you shouldn't be running it.
Deck building can very likely go from "Commander + 99 cards" to "Commander + 99 cards(+ defined sideboard amount) - # of wish effects you can run in your colors". This results in people being less selective in what they choose to run because wishes can be multiple things.
People get access to more than 100 cards in a given game. Players are then incentivized to play wishes and to copy them to have/pull more resources than your opponents. This also means that it is possible, through multiple means, that more than 100 cards can be in the game between library, hand, board, graveyard and exile.
It may just be my opinion, but the issues brought about by enabling wishes outweigh the potential benefits. The concessions that would have to be made to allow for them to function isn't worth the effort and long term damage on the games yet to be played and the deck construction process over all.
I agree with all of this. The first half I think would be ridiculously easy should the RC choose to go down that road (standard disclaimer, I dont know the inner workings of the RC or WotC, I just say this from seeing how knowledgeable the RC is and how good a relationship they have with Wizards.) The second half is pretty much why I think the current rule is the best rule.
People get access to more than 100 cards in a given game. Players are then incentivized to play wishes and to copy them to have/pull more resources than your opponents. This also means that it is possible, through multiple means, that more than 100 cards can be in the game between library, hand, board, graveyard and exile.
Two things. Why do you think having more than 100 cards is a problem? And why do you think copying Wishes is going to be incentivized? You even said yourself that "If it's not worth running the majority of the time, you shouldn't be running it." Do you honestly think copying Cunning Wish once or twice is a better use of resources than, say, simply spending all that mana drawing cards that actually made the cut in your deck? Seems pretty loose to me.
People get access to more than 100 cards in a given game. Players are then incentivized to play wishes and to copy them to have/pull more resources than your opponents. This also means that it is possible, through multiple means, that more than 100 cards can be in the game between library, hand, board, graveyard and exile.
Two things. Why do you think having more than 100 cards is a problem? And why do you think copying Wishes is going to be incentivized? You even said yourself that "If it's not worth running the majority of the time, you shouldn't be running it." Do you honestly think copying Cunning Wish once or twice is a better use of resources than, say, simply spending all that mana drawing cards that actually made the cut in your deck? Seems pretty loose to me.
I see having more than 100 cards as being a problem because the deck construction limits a deck to 100 cards, including the commander. To have wishes function serves only to circumvent that rule, after games are started. You get access to cards you wouldn't normally have access to, and can cherry pick silver bullets with them. I do not see how it is not detrimental to the format. Both from a deck building perspective and even a state based effect sort of way. Your deck/available resources after resolving a wish amounts to more than the legal limit for cards available to players.
Potentially, yeah. It's effectively a tutor at that point. Since when are tutors not worth running? Maybe you start running some nasty stuff, like Armageddon, Insurrection, Time Stretch, etc in the wishboard. Things that are highly costed or generally situational that you don't deem worth running all the time. You keep the average cmc of your deck down and save it for something ridiculous later.
Or, you pull something like Narset's Reversal and Nexus of Fate with Cunning Wish and take infinite extra turns... versus tutoring from your deck. Considering that that's basically Demonic Tutor for blue's purposes, yeah, that can get pretty damn problematic.
Or, you run Golden Wish to find both Nevermore and I dunno, Runed Halo to make a Voltron commander irrelevant. Is it done versus Black/red or mono of either? I guess that thing the deck was built to do isn't doing much of anything now...
Do these outcomes exist normally? Sure, if they're run mainboard. I'm considering the worst possible scenario. It's not unlikely to see someone using blue or red to copy these wishes to maximum effect.
Hell, even the new Karn, the Great Creator gets more ridiculous with a wishboard. Sure, Mycosynth Lattice from the wishboard, no one can play the game anymore. You want to enable that? They have to at least tutor from deck or naturally draw that combo to try to pull it off. You want a 1 card guaranteed combo to be a thing to ruin games, in any colors? That would very likely end with one of those 2 cards being banned. I'm sorry, but the versatility and power level of Karn 3.0, as is, is more than fair and is not worth banning. Karn 3.0 as a casualty of this is another point against wishes being functional. The writing for this eventual ban is on the wall and plain as day to see if wishes were made functional.
The choices at that point seem clear... Enable wishes and see games devolve into longer games with wish/sideboards like it is in constructed formats with silver bullets and see a newly printed, fair card be banned. (one that plenty of people will have with the new set) OR leave wishes where they are and allow individual play groups to determine what wishes mean or don't for them.
This is directed at the people who want to make wishes work so they can actually use them: what cards would you include in your wish boards? (Be as specific as possible)
I don't think you should include board for having more cards. In fact that overlooks a part of the game in general. I cast Bribery, I steal a creature from your deck. Technically on my side of the board, I have 101 cards between multiple zones. This 101th card also came from an area that wasn't my deck.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
This seems like less of a point against what I said and more of a grasp at...something... Act of Treason effects are plentiful. Taking or exchanging control effects as well. Copy spells, etc. Resources can be shared, stolen or copied; control of them can change whether it be permanent or temporary.
What doesn't change is ownership. You can never shuffle a card you don't own into your library. Things that are inherently yours, does not change when a game starts or ends. You still only ever had access to the 100 cards in your library, that you built and shuffled up before hand. That a card outside of your decklist could be shuffled into your deck is problematic.
This is directed at the people who want to make wishes work so they can actually use them: what cards would you include in your wish boards? (Be as specific as possible)
I see having more than 100 cards as being a problem because the deck construction limits a deck to 100 cards, including the commander. To have wishes function serves only to circumvent that rule, after games are started.
Then do you also have a problem with Shadowborn Apostle for circumventing the singleton rule?
The choices at that point seem clear... Enable wishes and see games devolve into longer games with wish/sideboards like it is in constructed formats with silver bullets and see a newly printed, fair card be banned. (one that plenty of people will have with the new set) OR leave wishes where they are and allow individual play groups to determine what wishes mean or don't for them.
Frankly the majority of your post sounds like fearmongering to me. Someone ruining the game by Wishing for an Armageddon versus someone ruining the game by just playing Armageddon seems like a distinction without a difference. Is it possible people will only include a bunch of awful cards in their Wishboards, like Acid Rain? Sure, I guess. But making it sound like literally everyone will do that all the time seems a bit disingenuous. It would be like me warning you off of playing EDH at all because the only things that get played are hardcore combo decks that win on T4. Do some people play those decks? Yes. But it's certainly not indicative of the entire experience. We should be trying to figure out how the average player would use Wishes if they were legal worked at all.
This is directed at the people who want to make wishes work so they can actually use them: what cards would you include in your wish boards? (Be as specific as possible)
Fairly reasonable set of cards to store in the wishboard.
Also just stating, I put those cards in my wish board to minimize an opponents options to steal from my deck or to exile from my deck. But if wishboards like mine actually become common, run cards and get to removing my wish-based cards from my deck. If I can't access the wishes then I can't access the wishboard. A wishboard is both a vault and a liability.
I DO feel like cards like Shadowborn Apostle and Relentless Rats are against the flavor of the format. The fact that it's been legal for as long as it has and that some have embraced it, means that those cards have value as multiples are needed. If they were banned this far into the format's life, people would lose entire decks on the decision to ban them. It's not something that the RC would ever do.
My intention isn't to be a fearmonger, but to stress that the potential for abuse is present. The potential for game length to be increased is very much present for sideboarding. Again, I will reference my previous points that cards like Sylvan Primordial and Prophet of Kruphix were banned; not for the fair play that they saw, but because of how they were abused.
Sideboards, in general, have the potential to drag out games more than anything else, which is effectively a requirement to allow wishes to work. Deciding which card(s) out of 99 can be swapped out post game 1 or beyond depending on which decks switch and who is playing what... the odds that sideboards aren't used how they are for constructed formats is unlikely. Dragging out games at an LGS, let alone at a kitchen table, doesn't seem worth them being official.
Its also the option that provides the least power to wishes if given a purpose, its also the option that requires no card banned, its also an option that requires no wishboard, its also an option that is the least likely to cause a big price spike, its already had a precedent which means using those rules is not that out there really. Its literally the safest option if change were to occur.
It can be argued the logistics of it, like what caused the social contract mess of an argument in the first place, but it still remains the better method purposed. Also that the only counter arguments to it are literally: Citing rules 0 and 13.
Also Blue are you really going down this route? Because Karn, the Great Creator is a modern day wish spell, just like Coax from the Blind Eternities. They are wish spells that also retrieve from exile. That what they are doing is the modern equivalent of the very same function prior to magic 2010 like if a spell was RFG with swords to plowshares. Fancy that. Its almost like your argument about me not knowing how wishes worked was a hugely false statement in a poor man's attempt to discredit me.
Also on the Shahrazad thing, don't talk about unrelated stuff that no bearing on the discussion, simple as that. Keep it on subject Blue or don't post it at all. If Blue wants to defend his unrelated topic to make it have relevance, they are contributing less than I was.
In fact both MHRBlue and Kamino_Taka have contributed very little in this revived discussion aside from thanking each other as if that gives them credibility. The only ones who seem to be actually doing the legwork for this discussion are Ava, ForgottenOne, and CrimsonWings_3689. Which is two in favor of wishes, one against wishes. I don't include myself as I will admit that I mostly just been the peanut gallery for this discussion.
So then your cleanest option is that you can only grab stuff from exile from it? You think that is the cleanest answer but Forgottet One and Impossible would argue that that version is not the cleanest at all (Impossible by saying special rules for certain cards is not a clean cut answer at all e.g. not getting cards from outside the game, just from exile)(Forgotted one by "there is no rule that blanks its text box" as it doesn't blank all but still blanks part of it.)
I agree that it would be among the safest option if change were to occur, no change would still be at least equally safe if not safer because of the status quo.
And the general magic rules just because the streamlining of rules and zones have gotten rid of wish funktionality doesn't mean they get an automatic errata to get stuff from exile. Just because Anya, Merciless Angel exists doesn't mean that Serra Ascendant is automatically erratad to "10 more than your starting total" it is still 30 life. Sure Wotc is aware that future wishcards should behave that way but even they dont errata the old ones even when they had the chance
Blues point about Sharazad was an example against the "3) If a player would hypothetically misbehave with using wishes, they are obviously violating the social contract / gentleman's agreement." argument stating that that argument can be used against anything be it banned cards or wishes.
if you percive it this way fine I came in from the other thread and chimed in with my own arguments and reasoning for/against proposed solutions, and reasonings to why I agree/disagree with certain arguments. So at least I think I contributed to this discussion whether you agree or disagree with my agruments/reasoning is a different matter. And that goes for most people here, just because you disagree with them doesn't mean they didn't contribute, just because somethings for you are a non argument doesn't neccesairly mean it is a non argument in general.
A one line rule that makes them somewhat functional is appealing, but by not working as printed OR as referenced in the oracle text it will likely cause some confusion. Additionally, “get from exile” cards such as Riftsweeper and Pull From Eternity are barely played as it is, so it’s unlikely that the wishes will even get seen in general.
The absolute cleanest way would be for it to “grab any card from your collection” as per the oracle, but that would be utterly atrocious.
This thread is not here for your own personal entertainment and contributing by trolling other users is extremely distracting.
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You're commander must be a legends elder dragon, changed to any legendary creature.
Bosh and Memnarch don't work as commanders because they are colorless, invented the whole concept of color identity to fix this.
Relentless Rats is printed, RC decides it's okay to wave the singleton rule for certain cards.
Extort is printed on cards that my mono color deck wants to play, RC says it's okay to play them in monocolor decks.
The only time I ever think the RC decided to make certain cards harder to play was with hybrid, by defining the cards as both colors.
I just wish that they'd made an official 'this is how they work' for wishes and it shouldn't be "It's a blank card".
No, both those cards say "or", exactly why cards with the 'wish' functionality should not be banned. The 'clean method' has no such rider. It is functional errata.
Random forum posters still don't dictate how I post. I also love the missed irony.
They did, you just don't like it. Rule 13 is direct and easy to understand. Its like hybrid: Yes it could work if they changed the rules. They have a position, and said its the baseline. Groups are free to do anything they like. Its exactly on point with other decisions made.
What I propose isn't actually a very difficult thing to do, but it comes with it's own set of problems. I don't subscribe to the notion of "we want to differentiate ourselves from competitive Magoc" because much like PBtE, it's an antiquated idea. And as I mentioned earlier, I play in a casual league which is technically sanctioned. The bigger problems insee are:
Confusion - with two different rules you will inevitably have arguments over which sideboard you can use.
Slow play - digging through a collection to find one particular card
Poor game play - what are people going to actually do with wishes? Grabbing a doom blade? Cool, but a regular tutor works just as well. Grabbing a specific hoser that isn't good enough to run on it's own merit? Lame.
So although I think the "best" solution is the one which gives wishes a very definitive answer, the most practical one which creates the best gameplay experience is the current solution we have in place.
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Sure, but we are still at the original problem of saying the RC needs to create a concrete definition, either through working with WotC to make the comp rules and Oracle allow wishes to be defined in Commander, or by creating functional errata. If you're on the latter side, then you just dont like the errata they came up with.
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I'll go on the record and say that while all of this seems plausible, and is likely the best case scenario in favor of wishes, it's a significant amount of effort to make ~10 cards work.
Things that would need to happen to allow for wishes in Commander:
The issues this causes are as follows:
It may just be my opinion, but the issues brought about by enabling wishes outweigh the potential benefits. The concessions that would have to be made to allow for them to function isn't worth the effort and long term damage on the games yet to be played and the deck construction process over all.
I agree with all of this. The first half I think would be ridiculously easy should the RC choose to go down that road (standard disclaimer, I dont know the inner workings of the RC or WotC, I just say this from seeing how knowledgeable the RC is and how good a relationship they have with Wizards.) The second half is pretty much why I think the current rule is the best rule.
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I see having more than 100 cards as being a problem because the deck construction limits a deck to 100 cards, including the commander. To have wishes function serves only to circumvent that rule, after games are started. You get access to cards you wouldn't normally have access to, and can cherry pick silver bullets with them. I do not see how it is not detrimental to the format. Both from a deck building perspective and even a state based effect sort of way. Your deck/available resources after resolving a wish amounts to more than the legal limit for cards available to players.
Potentially, yeah. It's effectively a tutor at that point. Since when are tutors not worth running? Maybe you start running some nasty stuff, like Armageddon, Insurrection, Time Stretch, etc in the wishboard. Things that are highly costed or generally situational that you don't deem worth running all the time. You keep the average cmc of your deck down and save it for something ridiculous later.
Or, you pull something like Narset's Reversal and Nexus of Fate with Cunning Wish and take infinite extra turns... versus tutoring from your deck. Considering that that's basically Demonic Tutor for blue's purposes, yeah, that can get pretty damn problematic.
Or, you run Golden Wish to find both Nevermore and I dunno, Runed Halo to make a Voltron commander irrelevant. Is it done versus Black/red or mono of either? I guess that thing the deck was built to do isn't doing much of anything now...
Do these outcomes exist normally? Sure, if they're run mainboard. I'm considering the worst possible scenario. It's not unlikely to see someone using blue or red to copy these wishes to maximum effect.
Hell, even the new Karn, the Great Creator gets more ridiculous with a wishboard. Sure, Mycosynth Lattice from the wishboard, no one can play the game anymore. You want to enable that? They have to at least tutor from deck or naturally draw that combo to try to pull it off. You want a 1 card guaranteed combo to be a thing to ruin games, in any colors? That would very likely end with one of those 2 cards being banned. I'm sorry, but the versatility and power level of Karn 3.0, as is, is more than fair and is not worth banning. Karn 3.0 as a casualty of this is another point against wishes being functional. The writing for this eventual ban is on the wall and plain as day to see if wishes were made functional.
The choices at that point seem clear... Enable wishes and see games devolve into longer games with wish/sideboards like it is in constructed formats with silver bullets and see a newly printed, fair card be banned. (one that plenty of people will have with the new set) OR leave wishes where they are and allow individual play groups to determine what wishes mean or don't for them.
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You cannot (get a card from 'outside the game') without prior approval of the group.
This is exactly the same as:
You cannot (play a banned card card) without prior approval of the group.
Act of Treason effects are plentiful. Taking or exchanging control effects as well. Copy spells, etc. Resources can be shared, stolen or copied; control of them can change whether it be permanent or temporary.
What doesn't change is ownership. You can never shuffle a card you don't own into your library. Things that are inherently yours, does not change when a game starts or ends. You still only ever had access to the 100 cards in your library, that you built and shuffled up before hand. That a card outside of your decklist could be shuffled into your deck is problematic.
Well if its 10 cards:
- Decree of Annihilation
- Obliterate
- Jokulhaups
- Mycosynth Lattice
- Darksteel Forge
- Cyclonic Rift
- Expropriate
- Ring of Ma'rûf
- Hellkite Tyrant
- Insurrection
Fairly reasonable set of cards to store in the wishboard.were legalworked at all.My intention isn't to be a fearmonger, but to stress that the potential for abuse is present. The potential for game length to be increased is very much present for sideboarding. Again, I will reference my previous points that cards like Sylvan Primordial and Prophet of Kruphix were banned; not for the fair play that they saw, but because of how they were abused.
Sideboards, in general, have the potential to drag out games more than anything else, which is effectively a requirement to allow wishes to work. Deciding which card(s) out of 99 can be swapped out post game 1 or beyond depending on which decks switch and who is playing what... the odds that sideboards aren't used how they are for constructed formats is unlikely. Dragging out games at an LGS, let alone at a kitchen table, doesn't seem worth them being official.