To follow up on MRHBlue, when I was looking through the official forums for quotes from the Rules Committee, I found a few different threads from around the time of her legality/banning. Everything while she was legal was complaining about how unfun she was, and everything after was cheering. After her ban had passed, no one felt the need to bring her up again.
As far as that single community is concerned, it was the right call to ban her and they're still happy she's banned.
If your group is getting to the point where Emrakul hits the table, then you're effectively house banning tier one decks, since Emrakul shouldn't come out against those unless your ramp player gets a relatively amazing hand, or your stax player is doing a really ***** job at stopping the Emrakul player.
That's an interesting interesting point, and I would agree IF we presume those decks should exist at all tables. I would posit that they often do not, and thats because a lot of people dont like to pilot them, or play against them. People not enjoying the play style isnt a house ban.
You also ignore Bribery and cheat outs.
What has changed is that there is now more removal that hits emrakul, black has grip of desolation, every colour has the (albeit ineffective) scour from existence, and there's probably other new removal that hits Emrakul which I've missed.
If answers were the issue, a few narrow ones aren't exactly a resounding point in her favor.
As part of the ban was a resounding plea from the player base, complaining T1 decks weren't 'doing their jobs' really seems to be off key to the wants of the format players at large.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Tested her in my Kruphix deck. Casted her few times, each time the game went from FFA into archenemy. Each time I died before I could kill at least 1 enemy with it or Emrakul was killed. Later 1 friend started to argue that she is banned and so on so I put her out of the deck.
Still, I miss the "banned as 99" and "banned as commander" thing, Emrakul is no harm as general and also in 99, she is not that brutal or broken as many people say.
Tested her in my Kruphix deck. Casted her few times, each time the game went from FFA into archenemy. Each time I died before I could kill at least 1 enemy with it or Emrakul was killed. Later 1 friend started to argue that she is banned and so on so I put her out of the deck.
Still, I miss the "banned as 99" and "banned as commander" thing, Emrakul is no harm as general and also in 99, she is not that brutal or broken as many people say.
there was never a banned as 99. It was either banned completely or just banned as a general. I feel that was a good call to merge the two.
This card was absurd when it was legal. It completely warped my playgroup. It didn't help that it was the Prerelease Promo, so everybody had a copy.
Everybody that could ran Bribery (helped that it was like $2 then). Everybody main decked things like Seal of Doom and other similar nonsense because it could get around the protections.
The only card that was worse was Primeval Titan, and we know how that went.
It might be more tame in today's climate, but I doubt by much.
As someone who plays Colorless EDH, I would love to see Emrakul, the Aeons Torn unbanned. However in fairness I think she should stay where she is. She can be played relatively early on with the right ramp. For example:
Turn one: I draw my first card now having 8 in hand, I play Wastesthen tap for Sol Ring putting me at 2 open mana, then tap Sol ring for Voltaic Key with one colorless floating I then pay and tap Voltaic key to untap Sol Ring and cast Thought Vessel. I now have a total of 4 mana one turn one. With a potential for 5 mana.
Turn two: I draw my second card which would be Eye of Ugin and play it. Now keep in mind Eye does not help me with anything but Eldrazi spells. now tap Sol ring to play Doubling Cube then I will tap Thought vessel to tap voltaic key, untapping sol ring to then tap soul ring for Swiftfoot Boots. Ending my turn I am now sitting at 4 mana with a potential of 5 mana, and the ability to play a 7 cost Eldrazi spell.
Turn three: Draw a card, playing Shrine of the Forsaken Gods putting me at 5 mana or potential 6. Tapping wastes, shrine, and sol ring, i now have 4 floating in my pool. Then tap thought vessel to pay for voltaic key and tapping it to untap sol ring for a total of 6 mana and cast Dreamstone Hedron, after which I end my turn. With dreamstone now on the field, I can now use Doubling cube to its fullest potential with a total of 14 mana, as well as being able to cast Eldrazi spells for 16.
Turn four: I draw into Eldrazi Temple and play it. Then I tap Thought vessel and Dreamstone for 4 mana and cast Hedron Archive. Then tap Wastes to pay for Voltaic key and tap it to untapp Dreamstone only to tap it again for doubling cube for 14 mana. Then with Emmie in command zone i cast her for 13 mana, 2 less because of Eye of Ugin. Emmie hits because she can't be countered plus I get my extra turn for casting her. Then with my 1 remaining mana I equipped her with Swiftfoot boots and swing. Now you get to pick all your mana rocks, dorks and lands and toss them in your graveyard in a fit of rage at the turn 4 Emmie.
For my second turn, I draw Sanctum of Ugin and play it. I then tap all my mana resources for 12 mana and use 3 to tap doubling cube, putting me at 18 mana in my pool. Using 7 of my 18 i tap Eye of ugin to tutor out a Eldrazi card. I will grab Emrakul, the Promised End and revealing it to the group then placing it into my hand. with my last 11 mana I will cast her, keeping in mind eye of ugin lets me cast eldrazi for 2 less. I then swing with Commander Emmie again at another player to keep the board state in my favor and annihilating 6 more things in my wake. 2 players now have little to nothing on the board with 15 commander damage and I then end my turn, only to take control of the 3rd player in the group's turn only to kill of the 1st and 2nd player (assuming he/she has enough creatures to do so.)
Ideally the group would surrender as soon as the first Emmie hits, but if they don't they will when the second one hits.
Edit: Keep in mind this is my actual deck, except the Old Emmie. However I do have her and I want to put her in but can't.
Is the card centralizing? Yes. And that's where the problem is.
I don't think it would be any more centralizing the say Sol Ring/Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. These are cards I happen to see in almost every and any deck, generally just to keep one from either being milled or milling oneself out.
I don't think it would be any more centralizing the say Sol Ring/Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. These are cards I happen to see in almost every and any deck, generally just to keep one from either being milled or milling oneself out.
The problem is with that position, we KNOW it is wrong. Emmy used to be legal, was way more centralizing than those cards would DREAM to be, and was banned to match that knowledge.
If you can't show why new cards have changed that, not much to discuss.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I don't think it would be any more centralizing the say Sol Ring/Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. These are cards I happen to see in almost every and any deck, generally just to keep one from either being milled or milling oneself out.
The problem is with that position, we KNOW it is wrong. Emmy used to be legal, was way more centralizing than those cards would DREAM to be, and was banned to match that knowledge.
If you can't show why new cards have changed that, not much to discuss.
The BFZ block has cards that can handle emmy with no problem. Since the addition of a colorless removal as well as devoid removal, and even an artifact. Granted the selection isn't huge but there is stuff to handle her.
Not more powerful, just the center of more games, hence the term. Sol Ring is powerful, no doubt, but entire metas became 'ramp to Emmy ASAP, win'. Even a T1 Sol Ring requires a lot of gas behind it to win that often. If games were revolving around Sol Ring like that it would be banned
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Not more powerful, just the center of more games, hence the term. Sol Ring is powerful, no doubt, but entire metas became 'ramp to Emmy ASAP, win'. Even a T1 Sol Ring requires a lot of gas behind it to win that often. If games were revolving around Sol Ring like that it would be banned
I'm guessing that you're joking here... I suppose, though, if we go by the philosophy of the banlist, nobody should be playing Sol Ring or Mana Crypt anyways.
More on-topic, though, I think that for a lot of the centralizing cards, unless there are other problems with them, they just need a decent waiting period (say, 5-8 years) so that the game can change enough and render them less problematic.
I'm guessing that you're joking here... I suppose, though, if we go by the philosophy of the banlist, nobody should be playing Sol Ring or Mana Crypt anyways.
Sorry if I was unclear. I was not joking that I think Emmy was more centralizing. I do think SR and MC fall within the ban principles, so should be banned or 'discouraged' like 'Geddon. Hence the wink
More on-topic, though, I think that for a lot of the centralizing cards, unless there are other problems with them, they just need a decent waiting period (say, 5-8 years) so that the game can change enough and render them less problematic.
Possibly true, but Emmy protections, extra turn, and Annihilator 6 makes me think this may be the exception, not the rule. I mean I think people would still junk up the game with it far too often.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Here are some examples of things you CAN do to Emrakul:
Exile it with Oblivion Ring. (When Oblivion Ring targets, it isn’t a spell anymore. Emrakul doesn’t have protection from triggered abilities of permanents.)
Destroy it with Executioner’s Capsule, or Avatar of Woe. (Again, Emrakul’s protection doesn’t protect it from abilities of permanents.)
Destroy it with Supreme Verdict, or put it on the bottom of its owner’s library with Terminus. (Emrakul’s protection only stops it from being targeted and damaged by colored spells, not destroyed or removed some other way.)
Return it to it’s owner’s hand with Venser, Shaper Savant. (This works whether Emrakul is a spell or a creature. Much like Oblivion Ring, by the time Venser targets Emrakul, Venser isn’t a spell anymore and Emrakul’s protection doesn’t stop abilities of permanents. Also, Venser returns spells to hand without countering them, getting around Emrakul’s can’t-be-countered ability.)
Steal it with Gather Specimens. (That’s just nasty)
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
As someone who plays Colorless EDH, I would love to see Emrakul, the Aeons Torn unbanned. However in fairness I think she should stay where she is. She can be played relatively early on with the right ramp.
I don't deny I would like her to be unbanned, with the BFZ block there is even more to work with to get her off the field like Aligned Hedron Network even instant speed removal like Scour from Existence and Titan's Presence as long as you can reveal Draco or your own Emmy.
I've been thinking that Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, despite being an infamous card that has been banned for many years, could be unbanned in commander.
I'm basing my reasoning on 3 things that have been slowly changing in the commander world.
1. Several countercards exist to Emrakul being cheated into play. Obviously Emrakul is at her scariest early in the game where she can threaten to quickly annihilate most of a players board, this is basically the way she is played in the 60 card, 4 copy formats modern and legacy. Hoever, there have been several cards printed that strait up hose trying to cheat a creature into play. Most notably Containment Priest.
2. Protection from colored spells isn't actually that good anymore. Sure, you can't just Swords to Plowshares Emrakul, but there are plenty of good removal spells that can deal with her. WE've had several printings of better style Oblivion Rings, lots of planeswalkers can kill creatures, way more wrath effcts now then there used to be, we have colorless removal spells, Cyclonic Rift is the #2 EDH card behind Sol Ring, and there are fantastic EDH cards like Crackling Doom and Profane Procession that somebody will often be back packing in their decks.
3. Annihilator 6 isn't that good anymore either. It seems like MTG has been really gungho on the tokens as of late. It seems like every set we get some new type of token, be it treasure, clues, gold, or just creature tokens that decks are so capable of flooding a board with so many paper tokens that we politely ask them to just use a dice. I've been playing with and against the other OG titans Ulamog and Kozilek and I've had cards like Smothering Tithe, Curse of Opulence, Spell Swindle, and Nesting Dragon just completly absord annihilator triggers through multiple rounds of combat. Let's not forget about Teferi's Protection either.
Basically, this sums up to Emrakul not being that strong anymore. She costs a ton of mana, can be answered by plenty of played and popular cards and even if she does get to stick; there are plenty of cards that can flood to field with fodder cards to distract her appetite with.
1. Several countercards exist to Emrakul being cheated into play. Obviously Emrakul is at her scariest early in the game where she can threaten to quickly annihilate most of a players board, this is basically the way she is played in the 60 card, 4 copy formats modern and legacy. Hoever, there have been several cards printed that strait up hose trying to cheat a creature into play. Most notably Containment Priest.
I don't think the existence of Emrakul countercards matters all that much. What I think is important is whether or not these countercards are actually prevalent in the Commander metagame at large. Currently, I don't think they are. Now, if Emrakul were unbanned, you would likely see an increase in countercard usage, but I don't think you would see a significant increase. That's just not the way most players tend to build decks. Players (whether they ought to or not) tend to focus much more on refining their own deck's central premise than answering specific problem cards that may or may not see play against them. And this is especially true if those problem cards require narrow or niche answers. As such, if Emrakul were unbanned, I think you would see virtually the same amount of harm as before.
2. Protection from colored spells isn't actually that good anymore. Sure, you can't just Swords to Plowshares Emrakul, but there are plenty of good removal spells that can deal with her. WE've had several printings of better style Oblivion Rings, lots of planeswalkers can kill creatures, way more wrath effcts now then there used to be, we have colorless removal spells, Cyclonic Rift is the #2 EDH card behind Sol Ring, and there are fantastic EDH cards like Crackling Doom and Profane Procession that somebody will often be back packing in their decks.
Completely disagree. Protection from colored spells is extremely relevant. That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not countercards exist. Countercards do exist, and they have always been around. Protection from colored spells just blanks the most prevalent forms of removal. We're not seeing any kind of significant increase in players playing cards that can answer Emrakul.
3. Annihilator 6 isn't that good anymore either. It seems like MTG has been really gungho on the tokens as of late. It seems like every set we get some new type of token, be it treasure, clues, gold, or just creature tokens that decks are so capable of flooding a board with so many paper tokens that we politely ask them to just use a dice. I've been playing with and against the other OG titans Ulamog and Kozilek and I've had cards like Smothering Tithe, Curse of Opulence, Spell Swindle, and Nesting Dragon just completly absord annihilator triggers through multiple rounds of combat. Let's not forget about Teferi's Protection either.
Again, I disagree. Annihilator 6 is still extremely powerful. Granted, it may not be as strong as it once was due to the prevalence of token generating cards like Smothering Tithe and Tireless Tracker, but the stages of the game in which annihilator 6 is backbreaking are largely unchanged. Emrakul has always been most problematic during the early and middle stages of the game where annihilating six permanents means losing half your board state, and the subtle weakening of Emrakul's ability in the later stages of the game don't help significantly reduce Emrakul's harmful effects during the earlier stages of the game which has always been where its impact is most relevant.
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Emrakul is a card that shouldn't exist period. It's a dumb soup of overpowered abilities on a ridiculously large body. It's obnoxious and lazy, and ruins everything it touches. It's siblings that do far less and are far easier to deal with are still very strong and obnoxious, but not near the level of Emrakul. The card was designed to be devestating to sit across from. Despair was the intended effect. It succeeds. Keep this crap out of casual formats. It's a lot of fun for the caster the first couple times, yes, because it's exciting to smash in with all that power, but it's just a tired chore for everyone else. Worse, since it doesn't just win the game, if someone IS able to deal with it that just means that one or two players got their game ruined by an R&D mistake for nothing.
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1. Several countercards exist to Emrakul being cheated into play. Obviously Emrakul is at her scariest early in the game where she can threaten to quickly annihilate most of a players board, this is basically the way she is played in the 60 card, 4 copy formats modern and legacy. Hoever, there have been several cards printed that strait up hose trying to cheat a creature into play. Most notably Containment Priest.
I don't think the existence of Emrakul countercards matters all that much. What I think is important is whether or not these countercards are actually prevalent in the Commander metagame at large. Currently, I don't think they are. Now, if Emrakul were unbanned, you would likely see an increase in countercard usage, but I don't think you would see a significant increase. That's just not the way most players tend to build decks. Players (whether they ought to or not) tend to focus much more on refining their own deck's central premise than answering specific problem cards that may or may not see play against them. And this is especially true if those problem cards require narrow or niche answers. As such, if Emrakul were unbanned, I think you would see virtually the same amount of harm as before.
2. Protection from colored spells isn't actually that good anymore. Sure, you can't just Swords to Plowshares Emrakul, but there are plenty of good removal spells that can deal with her. WE've had several printings of better style Oblivion Rings, lots of planeswalkers can kill creatures, way more wrath effcts now then there used to be, we have colorless removal spells, Cyclonic Rift is the #2 EDH card behind Sol Ring, and there are fantastic EDH cards like Crackling Doom and Profane Procession that somebody will often be back packing in their decks.
Completely disagree. Protection from colored spells is extremely relevant. That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not countercards exist. Countercards do exist, and they have always been around. Protection from colored spells just blanks the most prevalent forms of removal. We're not seeing any kind of significant increase in players playing cards that can answer Emrakul.
3. Annihilator 6 isn't that good anymore either. It seems like MTG has been really gungho on the tokens as of late. It seems like every set we get some new type of token, be it treasure, clues, gold, or just creature tokens that decks are so capable of flooding a board with so many paper tokens that we politely ask them to just use a dice. I've been playing with and against the other OG titans Ulamog and Kozilek and I've had cards like Smothering Tithe, Curse of Opulence, Spell Swindle, and Nesting Dragon just completly absord annihilator triggers through multiple rounds of combat. Let's not forget about Teferi's Protection either.
Again, I disagree. Annihilator 6 is still extremely powerful. Granted, it may not be as strong as it once was due to the prevalence of token generating cards like Smothering Tithe and Tireless Tracker, but the stages of the game in which annihilator 6 is backbreaking are largely unchanged. Emrakul has always been most problematic during the early and middle stages of the game where annihilating six permanents means losing half your board state, and the subtle weakening of Emrakul's ability in the later stages of the game don't help significantly reduce Emrakul's harmful effects during the earlier stages of the game which has always been where its impact is most relevant.
1 and 2. I can say now, that i don't think 'dies to removal' is necessarily a relevant point. I think the actual card types would be useful to talk about though to sort of 'nudge' the card one way or the other. Being a creature with protection from coloured spells means that it's a card type that's quite easily removed, but the type of removal is limited to non-coloured spells; so abilities or spells with devoid. Generally, i'd say that emrakul is somewhat easy to deal with when it hits play. but more likely, it's going to be hit by a mind control or something.
3. i completely agree. I run a rakdos the defiler deck (that also runs it that betrays). Quite often, annihilator 6 is nothing compared to sacrificing half your permanents (i usually end up hitting 10+ permanents per hit); and that's ignoring me giving rakdos double strike or multiple attack steps per turn. I think most players completely overreact to losing their stuff unnecessarily (because somehow, the 'general EDH crowd' has some aversion to any form of interaction in the game). And even IF i manage to pull a nutty entwined-savage beating plus extra attacks combat and nuke like 50-60 permanents, it's far from game over.
that's against players who've gotten used to the idea of losing permanents quickly. the banlist is built for the GENERAL EDH crowd; presumably with a slant towards newer players. In that context, cards that mill excessively and makes players sacrifice permanents can give a lot of feel-bads. I can't say that people i end up playing with ever have a problem with rakdos (aside from thinking that i'm nuts), and i don't think the annihilation 6 is nearly as bad as people think. Personally, i think that the card is fine. I don't think it's nearly as broken as many players complain about it being, and they only think of it in terms of "oh no, i'm gonna lose my stuff!", and then yell about it. I constantly play against it in legacy (though not in EDH), and i've been hit by it and won on the backswing (not easy though).
Overall, i think the general EDH crowd is a bit too squeamish with their opponents messing with their stuff, and that emrakul is fine. That being said, i don't think it's something that the RC would think is ok to be unbanned, because it might scare new players away. I know that my old 14-year-old-self would have thought that getting hit by an emrakul is waaaaaaaaaay OP.
As far as that single community is concerned, it was the right call to ban her and they're still happy she's banned.
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You also ignore Bribery and cheat outs.
If answers were the issue, a few narrow ones aren't exactly a resounding point in her favor.
As part of the ban was a resounding plea from the player base, complaining T1 decks weren't 'doing their jobs' really seems to be off key to the wants of the format players at large.
Still, I miss the "banned as 99" and "banned as commander" thing, Emrakul is no harm as general and also in 99, she is not that brutal or broken as many people say.
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there was never a banned as 99. It was either banned completely or just banned as a general. I feel that was a good call to merge the two.
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Everybody that could ran Bribery (helped that it was like $2 then). Everybody main decked things like Seal of Doom and other similar nonsense because it could get around the protections.
The only card that was worse was Primeval Titan, and we know how that went.
It might be more tame in today's climate, but I doubt by much.
Turn one: I draw my first card now having 8 in hand, I play Wastesthen tap for Sol Ring putting me at 2 open mana, then tap Sol ring for Voltaic Key with one colorless floating I then pay and tap Voltaic key to untap Sol Ring and cast Thought Vessel. I now have a total of 4 mana one turn one. With a potential for 5 mana.
Turn two: I draw my second card which would be Eye of Ugin and play it. Now keep in mind Eye does not help me with anything but Eldrazi spells. now tap Sol ring to play Doubling Cube then I will tap Thought vessel to tap voltaic key, untapping sol ring to then tap soul ring for Swiftfoot Boots. Ending my turn I am now sitting at 4 mana with a potential of 5 mana, and the ability to play a 7 cost Eldrazi spell.
Turn three: Draw a card, playing Shrine of the Forsaken Gods putting me at 5 mana or potential 6. Tapping wastes, shrine, and sol ring, i now have 4 floating in my pool. Then tap thought vessel to pay for voltaic key and tapping it to untap sol ring for a total of 6 mana and cast Dreamstone Hedron, after which I end my turn. With dreamstone now on the field, I can now use Doubling cube to its fullest potential with a total of 14 mana, as well as being able to cast Eldrazi spells for 16.
Turn four: I draw into Eldrazi Temple and play it. Then I tap Thought vessel and Dreamstone for 4 mana and cast Hedron Archive. Then tap Wastes to pay for Voltaic key and tap it to untapp Dreamstone only to tap it again for doubling cube for 14 mana. Then with Emmie in command zone i cast her for 13 mana, 2 less because of Eye of Ugin. Emmie hits because she can't be countered plus I get my extra turn for casting her. Then with my 1 remaining mana I equipped her with Swiftfoot boots and swing. Now you get to pick all your mana rocks, dorks and lands and toss them in your graveyard in a fit of rage at the turn 4 Emmie.
For my second turn, I draw Sanctum of Ugin and play it. I then tap all my mana resources for 12 mana and use 3 to tap doubling cube, putting me at 18 mana in my pool. Using 7 of my 18 i tap Eye of ugin to tutor out a Eldrazi card. I will grab Emrakul, the Promised End and revealing it to the group then placing it into my hand. with my last 11 mana I will cast her, keeping in mind eye of ugin lets me cast eldrazi for 2 less. I then swing with Commander Emmie again at another player to keep the board state in my favor and annihilating 6 more things in my wake. 2 players now have little to nothing on the board with 15 commander damage and I then end my turn, only to take control of the 3rd player in the group's turn only to kill of the 1st and 2nd player (assuming he/she has enough creatures to do so.)
Ideally the group would surrender as soon as the first Emmie hits, but if they don't they will when the second one hits.
Edit: Keep in mind this is my actual deck, except the Old Emmie. However I do have her and I want to put her in but can't.
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Is the card centralizing? Yes. And that's where the problem is.
I don't think it would be any more centralizing the say Sol Ring/Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. These are cards I happen to see in almost every and any deck, generally just to keep one from either being milled or milling oneself out.
If you can't show why new cards have changed that, not much to discuss.
The BFZ block has cards that can handle emmy with no problem. Since the addition of a colorless removal as well as devoid removal, and even an artifact. Granted the selection isn't huge but there is stuff to handle her.
You made me spit out my tea... In today's news, "Emrakul was more centralizing than Sol Ring." That's has never, ever, been close to being true.
I'm guessing that you're joking here... I suppose, though, if we go by the philosophy of the banlist, nobody should be playing Sol Ring or Mana Crypt anyways.
More on-topic, though, I think that for a lot of the centralizing cards, unless there are other problems with them, they just need a decent waiting period (say, 5-8 years) so that the game can change enough and render them less problematic.
Possibly true, but Emmy protections, extra turn, and Annihilator 6 makes me think this may be the exception, not the rule. I mean I think people would still junk up the game with it far too often.
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There are so many things you can do to get rid of Emmy, and I bet you probably have the stuff to deal with her in your deck right now.
You say you know why certain cards are banned, but your posts indicate otherwise.
I know why she is banned, she is simply broken. I even pointed it out...
I don't deny I would like her to be unbanned, with the BFZ block there is even more to work with to get her off the field like Aligned Hedron Network even instant speed removal like Scour from Existence and Titan's Presence as long as you can reveal Draco or your own Emmy.
I've been thinking that Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, despite being an infamous card that has been banned for many years, could be unbanned in commander.
I'm basing my reasoning on 3 things that have been slowly changing in the commander world.
1. Several countercards exist to Emrakul being cheated into play. Obviously Emrakul is at her scariest early in the game where she can threaten to quickly annihilate most of a players board, this is basically the way she is played in the 60 card, 4 copy formats modern and legacy. Hoever, there have been several cards printed that strait up hose trying to cheat a creature into play. Most notably Containment Priest.
2. Protection from colored spells isn't actually that good anymore. Sure, you can't just Swords to Plowshares Emrakul, but there are plenty of good removal spells that can deal with her. WE've had several printings of better style Oblivion Rings, lots of planeswalkers can kill creatures, way more wrath effcts now then there used to be, we have colorless removal spells, Cyclonic Rift is the #2 EDH card behind Sol Ring, and there are fantastic EDH cards like Crackling Doom and Profane Procession that somebody will often be back packing in their decks.
3. Annihilator 6 isn't that good anymore either. It seems like MTG has been really gungho on the tokens as of late. It seems like every set we get some new type of token, be it treasure, clues, gold, or just creature tokens that decks are so capable of flooding a board with so many paper tokens that we politely ask them to just use a dice. I've been playing with and against the other OG titans Ulamog and Kozilek and I've had cards like Smothering Tithe, Curse of Opulence, Spell Swindle, and Nesting Dragon just completly absord annihilator triggers through multiple rounds of combat. Let's not forget about Teferi's Protection either.
Basically, this sums up to Emrakul not being that strong anymore. She costs a ton of mana, can be answered by plenty of played and popular cards and even if she does get to stick; there are plenty of cards that can flood to field with fodder cards to distract her appetite with.
What do you think?
Completely disagree. Protection from colored spells is extremely relevant. That doesn't have anything to do with whether or not countercards exist. Countercards do exist, and they have always been around. Protection from colored spells just blanks the most prevalent forms of removal. We're not seeing any kind of significant increase in players playing cards that can answer Emrakul.
Again, I disagree. Annihilator 6 is still extremely powerful. Granted, it may not be as strong as it once was due to the prevalence of token generating cards like Smothering Tithe and Tireless Tracker, but the stages of the game in which annihilator 6 is backbreaking are largely unchanged. Emrakul has always been most problematic during the early and middle stages of the game where annihilating six permanents means losing half your board state, and the subtle weakening of Emrakul's ability in the later stages of the game don't help significantly reduce Emrakul's harmful effects during the earlier stages of the game which has always been where its impact is most relevant.
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1 and 2. I can say now, that i don't think 'dies to removal' is necessarily a relevant point. I think the actual card types would be useful to talk about though to sort of 'nudge' the card one way or the other. Being a creature with protection from coloured spells means that it's a card type that's quite easily removed, but the type of removal is limited to non-coloured spells; so abilities or spells with devoid. Generally, i'd say that emrakul is somewhat easy to deal with when it hits play. but more likely, it's going to be hit by a mind control or something.
3. i completely agree. I run a rakdos the defiler deck (that also runs it that betrays). Quite often, annihilator 6 is nothing compared to sacrificing half your permanents (i usually end up hitting 10+ permanents per hit); and that's ignoring me giving rakdos double strike or multiple attack steps per turn. I think most players completely overreact to losing their stuff unnecessarily (because somehow, the 'general EDH crowd' has some aversion to any form of interaction in the game). And even IF i manage to pull a nutty entwined-savage beating plus extra attacks combat and nuke like 50-60 permanents, it's far from game over.
that's against players who've gotten used to the idea of losing permanents quickly. the banlist is built for the GENERAL EDH crowd; presumably with a slant towards newer players. In that context, cards that mill excessively and makes players sacrifice permanents can give a lot of feel-bads. I can't say that people i end up playing with ever have a problem with rakdos (aside from thinking that i'm nuts), and i don't think the annihilation 6 is nearly as bad as people think. Personally, i think that the card is fine. I don't think it's nearly as broken as many players complain about it being, and they only think of it in terms of "oh no, i'm gonna lose my stuff!", and then yell about it. I constantly play against it in legacy (though not in EDH), and i've been hit by it and won on the backswing (not easy though).
Overall, i think the general EDH crowd is a bit too squeamish with their opponents messing with their stuff, and that emrakul is fine. That being said, i don't think it's something that the RC would think is ok to be unbanned, because it might scare new players away. I know that my old 14-year-old-self would have thought that getting hit by an emrakul is waaaaaaaaaay OP.
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