Quote from OgrefootRight, but...if you have the mana to cast WP AND drop a reasonable threat (lets say a 4/4) wouldn't that be 1.) A lot of mana and 2.) A mana cost where winning is not unreasonable?
Quote from ÆthergineerThe Aperture Science Center would like to remind you that the internet isn't a competition, but if it was, you would be winning.
Quote from BladefaustusAmen to you.... you brilliant, brilliant person.
Quote from SyphonIf you weren't male, I'd ask you to marry me.
Quote from Sinfire Titan
Worldpurge empties your mana pool afterwards, preventing you from dropping anything else. You literally have to go "Cast dude, Quicken into Worldpurge" to get something on the table after a WP.
[CARD]Sway is like what 10? A 4/4 follow up (assuming you're even lucky enough to get to it) is probably another 4-6 mana so we're pushing 14-16 mana. I'm not mad if that wins.
Quote from killem2Recurring nightmare isn't getting as much resistance as I thought, i should ask, why can't it come off?
Quote from Drahcir_NagromWay, way too gross. It's a sac outlet and reanimation in a single card, as you well know. I think the main offenders are Yosei, the Morning Star and Sundering Titan.
Quote from Magic Online »What is fun? Whatever you want it to be!
Quote from HinotamaWhy is Panoptic Mirror banned? It seems to slow to do anything gamebreaking.
Quote from Sinfire Titan
Two Words: Time Warp.
Literally any blue "Take an extra turn" Sorcery breaks Panoptic Mirror. It becomes an auto-include in every EDH deck (especially if they run blue).
Quote from beanman1000I also agree with the unbanning of painter's servant. Ban Grindstone and Iona if you want, but there is so much fun stuff to do with PS that's not comepletely broken.
Quote from viperesqueThe problem with Servant is that it's an enabler, much like Hulk or Tinker. It is the one card that makes many other cards broken. So the choice is to ban every single card that's broken with it, or just ban the enabler itself. The better answer is obviously the latter, unless all the cards it breaks are terrible otherwise. Yes, these cards have uses that aren't broken, but that's necessary collateral damage.
Quote from beanman1000I am unaware of any broken combos with PS outside of Iona and Grindstone. Could you enlighten me?
Quote from Waiting in the WeedsThink of every card that specifies a color
Pro blue? It's now protection from everything.
Red Elemental Blast? destroys any permanent
Lifeforce? counter anything
It has massive potential, too much in fact.
Quote from viperesqueThe same reasoning applies, though. You can happily go off on turn two, and there's once again basically no other reason why you'd play LED.
It depends exactly what you mean. Would as many people play the card if there was no potential to get infinite mana with it? Probably not. But not many people actively build around the combo, or even make that much of an effort to assemble it. It's just so slow and vulnerable that most of the time it's not worth expending too much effort over.
Quote from ludd_gangSpeaking as "the solution guy", colors outside of black have thin access to gy hate. Green has some stuff, but it's pretty suboptimal sorcery speed stuff. (Relic is fantastic and in every deck, of course.)
Moreover even if you run gy hate, not everyone does. If you are the one guy controlling gy's at a table, everyone else is running decks that combo better than yours.
Just my $.02.
Quote from Surging ChaosWhat are you doing on a theoretical turn 2 going off with Salvagers combo? Your hand is toast, and the best you can do is cast your general. Sliver Queen would let you generate infinite slivers, but that would pretty much be as far as you could go.
I'm talking more about the former. Even though a deck might not actively assemble a Palinchron combo because their primary combo outlet is better, that still doesn't exclude Palinchron for what he does. The RC has a criterion of "If this card is used for absolutely nothing but degeneracy, then the card warrants a ban." It's this criterion that has Dragon, Hulk, and Staff on the ban list to begin with. Palinchron may not be the go-to answer for combo decks, but when someone slips it into a deck, it's with the intention of comboing out with it 99.99% of the time.
Quote from bimmerbotPro-everything doesn't break the game (Wrath, Evacuation, Edicts)
Having 2-3 out of 99 cards become instant Vindicate doesn't break the game
Countering anything is pretty strong, but since that isn't likely... you'd pretty much have to play mono-green to support GG for every opponent's spell for the lock, and you still can't stop Krosan Grip or Vexing Shusher, and you can't search for enchantments very easily with mono-green... more power to you if you pull off that combo. Even Painter-Grindstone doesn't necessarily win the game anymore with all the Kozileks and Emrakuls running around. Painter-Iona is really the only hard lock, which still takes some serious commitment to pull off (and technically you could still pull out of it even with mono-color if you hit Mouth of Ronom for Painter and Duplicant/Brittle Effigy for Iona... admittedly highly unlikely).
I don't see the Painter as a serious threat to the format. But I don't necessarily see banning it as a serious loss to the format either, unless someone is hellbent on the Iona-Painter combo. Seems like a viable strategy for someone to want to play. Even that combo has to hit early or after a board sweep to guarantee a win, as it does nothing about a strong board position.
Just my $0.02.
That's why Hulk, Tinker, Recurring Nightmare, and so forth are there, if my understanding is correct - they are so powerfully degenerate that your deck will get better and better the more it focuses solely on abusing them.
It's banned because it's a combo piece, and nothing more. And it's the key piece or a lot of combos
Mentioning how combos get interrupted doesn't mean they aren't broken.