For the life of me I cannot find anything to identify this rule on the official page. I can see it pointed out by the rules committee member in the article you quote here but I just cannot find where this rule comes from... Does this show up in any of the rules on the actual page not in a forum?
I pointed this out to my group finally as I got annoyed if we were doing it incorrectly. But then when I went to find the specific rule that identified this I couldnt find one.
This hasn't been updated recently, it seems. This particular ruling was apparently never 100% agreed upon, and has since been revoked. Don't play by it.
I had updated it with the banned list announcements (the Worldgorger Dragon thing), but I was unaware this rule was no longer in effect. Since we hadn't heard anything about it, I just kept it the same. Nevertheless, I updated the OP to say otherwise! I'll do some research on the topic to see if I can get a more definitive answer, but for now just play intuitively.
EDIT: Actually, check out the example in Rule #9 on the official page: "A Commander which is affected by Cytoshape, or is face down, is still a Commander." This is evidence that this ruling still exists.
Quote from boxian »
Thanks for your work on this thread! This is very helpful, organized, and clears up some rulings for sure. As to whether or not you should stop: I fully support this thread continuing if for no other reason it doesn't pretend that 1v1 doesn't exist and is another venue for getting information out there.
Could you also post some stuff about 1v1 starting life totals and the mulligan rules for Commander? I'm still confused about the Partial Pairs and the big deck mull, and someone told me online the other day that you only get to have one mulligan at all (even when going -1 cards).
I would just put a link to the mtgcommander.net FAQ thread at the bottom of the post.
Also how does one blind shuffle? You shuffle under the table or something?
edit: also, the official FAQ says that "yes you can play Akroma face down as a morph creature", but it doesn't mention if the General Tax applies to the morph cost, nor does it say that she has to be in a different sleeve. I know the sleeve is yes, but is the general tax also yes if i'm casting her morph from the general zone?
can you also update the post to have that generals do suffer from the legendary rule? I had another rules disagreement about that before as well.
Thanks!
Updating OP now. Also, whether you cast a general from the command zone (as a morph or otherwise), the appropriate general tax is applied.
The 1v1 stuff is found on the same page I linked to for the 1v1 banlists.
The legendary rule is explicitly stated on mtgcommander.net -- I went ahead and added it in the OP anyway, but it may get removed later because I'm not really saying anything new here, and people should always read the official rules page before they ask me for advice.
When the hell was the different sleeve rule thrown out? That rule's fantastic. Force everyone to not accidentally shuffle their general into their decks/at the very least cut back on time yanking him/her out when you did accidentally shuffle him/her into your deck?
I guess I have to ask the question then. If your commander is tucked and it is not using a different sleeve then what happens if someone uses Praetor's Grasp and pulls your commander???? Since the card is pulled face down you would not know if they pull your commander. And since moving your commander is a replacement effect for it being exiled... you wouldn't know or be able to replacement effect it thus forever exiling your commander...
Is this how this is supposed to work?
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I guess I have to ask the question then. If your commander is tucked and it is not using a different sleeve then what happens if someone uses Praetor's Grasp and pulls your commander???? Since the card is pulled face down you would not know if they pull your commander. And since moving your commander is a replacement effect for it being exiled... you wouldn't know or be able to replacement effect it thus forever exiling your commander...
Is this how this is supposed to work?
They have to announce that it's the commander as they exile it, so you can choose whether or not to apply the replacement effect. Haven't the foggiest where I read that though, sorry.
As a side note, what I usually do when my commander gets tucked is just change it from its unique sleeve to a regular sleeve that is on either a card in my hand or a card in my graveyard. This way I still don't shuffle my commanders in unless I intentionally do it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yea it was a weird ruling, doing blind shuffles is just really hard but I can see why the ruling was made because it stopped people from getting their generals tucked and then getting hit with a Jester's Cap effect and getting perma-exiled.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
As it is now, the ruling requires some honesty on the part of your opponents, as there is some opportunity for cheating. However, we at least have a precedent for this sort of thing:
Quote from Comprehensive Rules »
707.9. If a face-down permanent moves from the battlefield to any other zone, its owner must reveal it to all players as he or she moves it. If a face-down spell moves from the stack to any zone other than the battlefield, its owner must reveal it to all players as he or she moves it. At the end of each game, all face-down permanents and spells must be revealed to all players.
So for example, at the end of a game, if a player fails to reveal a face-down morph and prove that it is in fact a morph creature, he or she will lose the game, or at least that is my understanding. At the end of the game, if you find out your opponent exiled your commander without saying it was your commander, they forfeit the game because they're cheating...
This is great stuff d0su, and I'd love to see it get a sticky somewhere visible. One recommendation is that you anchor links to each question in the beginning, rather than make people scroll through the entire post to find their question. Also, each FAQ entry should be hidden behind spoilers.
I can foresee this thread becoming obsolete in the near future. That thread wouldn't really even need to provide links to justify the answers because it has the sanction of Genomancer. Would you like me to keep working on this thread and incorporate stuff from the mtgcommander FAQ, or just drop it entirely?
I wouldn't worry too much about that thread. It doesn't look like it's been updated for a year and a half.
Just a thought, you might also want to say something about extort being playable in any deck containing white or black regardless of what other colors is running
This is great stuff d0su, and I'd love to see it get a sticky somewhere visible. One recommendation is that you anchor links to each question in the beginning, rather than make people scroll through the entire post to find their question. Also, each FAQ entry should be hidden behind spoilers.
I wouldn't worry too much about that thread. It doesn't look like it's been updated for a year and a half.
Another thing. I generally lurk around here for my EDH/Commander advice/strategies/primers (less so with the whining and debates that devolve into whining), and for me, it's nice to have this compilation of format-specific rules info all in one place. And yes, an update + sticky would be lovely. Just my two cents!
I have a question and maybe this has already been answered, but if a player has to discard their general do they have the option to put it into general zone when it hits the graveyard. Secondly, and I think teh answer is no, but does my general hit the yard before he his put into commander zone, or is it a replacement effect?
I have a question and maybe this has already been answered, but if a player has to discard their general do they have the option to put it into general zone when it hits the graveyard.
If a Commander would be put into a graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead.
This is a replacement effect; the creature never goes to the graveyard and will not trigger such abilities.
Commanders will move to the library or hand as normal; only transitions to Exile or the Graveyard may be replaced.
Another thing. I generally lurk around here for my EDH/Commander advice/strategies/primers (less so with the whining and debates that devolve into whining)
Incessant whinning is a time-honoured tradition as sacred as actually playing the game
I am amazed this necro came when it did; I have more or less been on a break from active involvement in the forums (and Magic in general) for quite some time. Now that the local EDH scene looks to be cranking up again, I might take the opportunity to buckle down and update my long-neglected forum threads, including this one.
Extort is a good candidate for addition. Updating with new banlist info a high priority. I should obviously say something about the inclusion of ObsidianDice on the RC. What else?
Extort is a good candidate for addition. Updating with new banlist info a high priority. I should obviously say something about the inclusion of ObsidianDice on the RC. What else?
A link to the Official Banlist Discussion Thread, along with a disclaimer that this is not the appropriate thread to actually discuss the banlist, would not go amiss.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
This thread hasn't been updated in a year, and before the necro, hasn't seen a post in almost two.
Lol -- yeah, oops. I necro'd this after realizing that it wasn't too far out of date, there weren't many other threads covering this info, and that it's terribly useful.
That, and this: Last edited by d0su; 02-02-2012 at 08:05 AM. (That's what shows up now. When I necro'd, I'm almost positive the last edit was within a few months.)
Oh well. Useful information is useful, right? And this really could use a sticky, once a few minor updates are posted.
With d0su's blessing I've volunteered to take over this wonderful resource that was given to us and update it. What I would like from you the community is your ideas on what to add. Here's my planned thoughts so far:
Add the current ban list. - Done
Three EDH Principles - This is obsolete, and we now have a Philosophy document, so I will remove the former and replace with the latter. - Done
Move the actual FAQs to the second post. - Done
Add a Table of Contents to the FAQ portion. - Done
Update the rule pertaining to the general's whereabouts when placed in a library. - Done
Update When Was Card Banned. - In Progress
(Hopefully) Tackle Why isn't Card Banned.
Add FAQ regarding Color Identity (and by default, extort). - Done
Add FAQ regarding M14 Legend rules change. - Done
So please, if you can think of more updates, questions, rulings, etc. that I have forgotten or you would like to see, let me know. This will be an ongoing process, and I'll address the questions that have been posed already (like moving your commander between zones, updating the list of who's on the RC, and linking to the Official Ban List Discussion) as well.
I had updated it with the banned list announcements (the Worldgorger Dragon thing), but I was unaware this rule was no longer in effect. Since we hadn't heard anything about it, I just kept it the same. Nevertheless, I updated the OP to say otherwise! I'll do some research on the topic to see if I can get a more definitive answer, but for now just play intuitively.
EDIT: Actually, check out the example in Rule #9 on the official page: "A Commander which is affected by Cytoshape, or is face down, is still a Commander." This is evidence that this ruling still exists.
Updating OP now. Also, whether you cast a general from the command zone (as a morph or otherwise), the appropriate general tax is applied.
The 1v1 stuff is found on the same page I linked to for the 1v1 banlists.
The legendary rule is explicitly stated on mtgcommander.net -- I went ahead and added it in the OP anyway, but it may get removed later because I'm not really saying anything new here, and people should always read the official rules page before they ask me for advice.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Love it.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Thanks a ton, viper. With that discussion in the "top 50 cards list," I never would have found it.
(And good riddance to that ruling, I say.)
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Is this how this is supposed to work?
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They have to announce that it's the commander as they exile it, so you can choose whether or not to apply the replacement effect. Haven't the foggiest where I read that though, sorry.
As a side note, what I usually do when my commander gets tucked is just change it from its unique sleeve to a regular sleeve that is on either a card in my hand or a card in my graveyard. This way I still don't shuffle my commanders in unless I intentionally do it.
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[Modern] Allies
So for example, at the end of a game, if a player fails to reveal a face-down morph and prove that it is in fact a morph creature, he or she will lose the game, or at least that is my understanding. At the end of the game, if you find out your opponent exiled your commander without saying it was your commander, they forfeit the game because they're cheating...
...right?
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Otherwise, thank you for putting this together.
I wouldn't worry too much about that thread. It doesn't look like it's been updated for a year and a half.
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Oh, the irony.
This thread hasn't been updated in a year, and before the necro, hasn't seen a post in almost two.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Haha! I missed that. I saw a thread I'd never seen and thought it was new. Never even looked at the dates.
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This is where the amateur magician in me wants to spew the "We see what we expect to see, not what really is" speech.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Another thing. I generally lurk around here for my EDH/Commander advice/strategies/primers (less so with the whining and debates that devolve into whining), and for me, it's nice to have this compilation of format-specific rules info all in one place. And yes, an update + sticky would be lovely. Just my two cents!
The Rulings Subforum should be able to give you a better answer but very quickly: -
Yes, they do.
No, for the reason you just mentioned.
Source: dragonhighlander.net, Rule no. 12: -
EDIT: -
Incessant whinning is a time-honoured tradition as sacred as actually playing the game
Fixed that for you.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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Extort is a good candidate for addition. Updating with new banlist info a high priority. I should obviously say something about the inclusion of ObsidianDice on the RC. What else?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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A link to the Official Banlist Discussion Thread, along with a disclaimer that this is not the appropriate thread to actually discuss the banlist, would not go amiss.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Lol -- yeah, oops. I necro'd this after realizing that it wasn't too far out of date, there weren't many other threads covering this info, and that it's terribly useful.
That, and this: Last edited by d0su; 02-02-2012 at 08:05 AM. (That's what shows up now. When I necro'd, I'm almost positive the last edit was within a few months.)
Oh well. Useful information is useful, right? And this really could use a sticky, once a few minor updates are posted.
With d0su's blessing I've volunteered to take over this wonderful resource that was given to us and update it. What I would like from you the community is your ideas on what to add. Here's my planned thoughts so far:
Add the current ban list.- DoneThree EDH Principles - This is obsolete, and we now have a Philosophy document, so I will remove the former and replace with the latter.- DoneMove the actual FAQs to the second post.- DoneAdd a Table of Contents to the FAQ portion.- DoneUpdate the rule pertaining to the general's whereabouts when placed in a library.- DoneAdd FAQ regarding Color Identity (and by default, extort).- DoneAdd FAQ regarding M14 Legend rules change.- DoneThanks!
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
This is a great source of info that shouldn't have to be necro'd
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