So I'm sorta new to magic, a very off-on player but I enjoy playing commander with some friends. I'm trying to build an Isshin deck that has a decent mix of samurai and equipment, I'm not really on a budget, I just don't really know if my deck is too varied and probably needs to focus on one mechanic instead (less samurai).
Any and all help is appreciated, my deck list is here:
One of the problems you're facing is that Samurai and Isshin don't mechanically work well together. I mean, at least the new ones aren't as bad as the old Bushido Samurai, but the new ones act a lot like an Exalted deck - encouraging only a single attacker - while Isshin wants to double as many attack triggers as possible.
For example, in my Isshin deck, I can attack with Etali, Primal Storm, Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, and Commissar Severina Raine and double all of them, netting two cards from the top of each player's library, two waves of goblins, and two triggers to drain my opponents. But in your deck, you have eight cards that say "whenever a Samurai or a Warrior you control attacks alone," and not one of them works if you attack with Etali, Krenko, or Severina. (I mean, Severina is only good when you do attack with a lot of creatures).
Add to that the Samurai who don't trigger on attack, like Reinforced Ronin, Risona, Asari Commander, and Toshiro Umezawa, as well as the ones who technically trigger but do nothing additional on copy, like the lifelink from Selfless Samurai, and you've got a lot of anti-synergy that basically turns off half your board at a time.
Even Godo, Warlord Bandit, which seems to synergize with a bunch of Samurai, doesn't work with their abilities because if he and a bunch of Samurai attack, they're all vanillas. And let's say you do go wide with Godo in the first combat phase or attack with a Samurai/Warrior alone while Raiyuu, Storm's Edge is in play - sure, Isshin can double the extra combat, but your creatures don't untap between extra combats, so you're still limiting what Isshin can double each subsequent attack.
It just feels like the split focus is actively hurting you and creating dead cards. Do you want go wide or go tall?
If you want go wide, to attack with a lot of creatures, I'd say ditch everything that limits what you can attack with and add things that can be doubled together. (This is the direction I took my decklist)
If you want go tall or to include all of the Samurai for flavor reasons, then I would suggest ditching everything that runs counter to that - Etali, Aurelia, Brutal Hordchief, etc. - and replace them with Exalted cards so you can embrace attacking alone. I mean, just look at Sublime Archangel - with Isshin doubling the exalted triggers, your lone attacker, in addition to triggering all of the Samurai, now gets +2/+2 for each creature you control.
Once you know which way you want to go, we can provide better suggestions. But more importantly, your deck won't be fighting itself.
I really appreciate the detailed post. I've been asking around different places, and you're really the only person that's helped me out. I definitely agree that it's not committing to one thing therefore, the deck is fighting itself.
While it might not be as strong, it is possible to make a more tribal-samurai/voltron deck that is somewhat competitive? Or is that just a little too janky to work?
I really appreciate the detailed post. I've been asking around different places, and you're really the only person that's helped me out. I definitely agree that it's not committing to one thing therefore, the deck is fighting itself.
While it might not be as strong, it is possible to make a more tribal-samurai/voltron deck that is somewhat competitive? Or is that just a little too janky to work?
It's definitely possible to build, but competitive is a relative term to whatever group you play with. Do you know the new bracket system? I'd say a flavorful tribal Samurai deck would play no higher than bracket 1-2 (so likely less powerful than a precon). However, you have three game-changers in that list, which puts it at bracket 3 while lacking the power of most bracket 3 decks. There are still a lot of janky cards and play patterns in this list.
For example:
-Toshiro Umezawa - Fantastic card, I even built a deck with him as the commander years ago. But you only have 7 instants in your deck, and only 2 of those destroy an opponent's creature to trigger him. This means you have to rely on deaths from other sources, and then you still have to hope you have an instant in your graveyard. In an average game, you might use his ability once and will be very lucky to use it twice. And he still doesn't interact with your commander's ability.
-Heiko Yamazaki, the General and Ironsoul Enforcer both want to recur artifacts, which you do have plenty of, but you have exactly one artifact that can reliably be put in the graveyard (Commander's Sphere). If I had multiple artifact recursion cards, I would want to make sure they had targets, especially if I was copying the triggers. Sure, someone may blow up your other artifacts, but if not, you've got dead cards/abilities. I would consider Executioner's Capsule, Nihil Spellbomb, Wayfarer's Bauble, Burnished Hart, etc. Of course, you don't want to overdo it either, given you aren't guaranteed to see either of the recursion Samurai.
-18 creatures is a bit light for a tribal deck. Is this supposed to be tribal or Voltron? (Again, themes that can fight each other). If tribal, you want more creatures. If Voltron, more pump (like Blackblade Reforged - it may not trigger with your commander, but it works really nicely if you're double-triggering Bitterthorn and/or Sword of the Animist) and more evasion (like Brotherhood Regalia).
-Coat of Arms has a habit of backfiring splendidly on people when someone with another tribal deck has more creatures or more evasion. If you're not going tribal, cut this. Even if you are, be careful and never drop it unless you can kill the next player who will benefit from it.
Any and all help is appreciated, my deck list is here:
https://moxfield.com/decks/JyDYkHv4702pqHcq3x2WUw
For example, in my Isshin deck, I can attack with Etali, Primal Storm, Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, and Commissar Severina Raine and double all of them, netting two cards from the top of each player's library, two waves of goblins, and two triggers to drain my opponents. But in your deck, you have eight cards that say "whenever a Samurai or a Warrior you control attacks alone," and not one of them works if you attack with Etali, Krenko, or Severina. (I mean, Severina is only good when you do attack with a lot of creatures).
Add to that the Samurai who don't trigger on attack, like Reinforced Ronin, Risona, Asari Commander, and Toshiro Umezawa, as well as the ones who technically trigger but do nothing additional on copy, like the lifelink from Selfless Samurai, and you've got a lot of anti-synergy that basically turns off half your board at a time.
Even Godo, Warlord Bandit, which seems to synergize with a bunch of Samurai, doesn't work with their abilities because if he and a bunch of Samurai attack, they're all vanillas. And let's say you do go wide with Godo in the first combat phase or attack with a Samurai/Warrior alone while Raiyuu, Storm's Edge is in play - sure, Isshin can double the extra combat, but your creatures don't untap between extra combats, so you're still limiting what Isshin can double each subsequent attack.
It just feels like the split focus is actively hurting you and creating dead cards. Do you want go wide or go tall?
If you want go wide, to attack with a lot of creatures, I'd say ditch everything that limits what you can attack with and add things that can be doubled together. (This is the direction I took my decklist)
If you want go tall or to include all of the Samurai for flavor reasons, then I would suggest ditching everything that runs counter to that - Etali, Aurelia, Brutal Hordchief, etc. - and replace them with Exalted cards so you can embrace attacking alone. I mean, just look at Sublime Archangel - with Isshin doubling the exalted triggers, your lone attacker, in addition to triggering all of the Samurai, now gets +2/+2 for each creature you control.
Once you know which way you want to go, we can provide better suggestions. But more importantly, your deck won't be fighting itself.
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While it might not be as strong, it is possible to make a more tribal-samurai/voltron deck that is somewhat competitive? Or is that just a little too janky to work?
Edit: I may have gotten ahead of myself and made this: https://moxfield.com/decks/ELkp_tqEG0-EnR_qDtN4vg
Unless there's cards I don't know, it does seem like as "cool" as samurai are, the better route would be going wide and ditching the samurai.
For example:
-Toshiro Umezawa - Fantastic card, I even built a deck with him as the commander years ago. But you only have 7 instants in your deck, and only 2 of those destroy an opponent's creature to trigger him. This means you have to rely on deaths from other sources, and then you still have to hope you have an instant in your graveyard. In an average game, you might use his ability once and will be very lucky to use it twice. And he still doesn't interact with your commander's ability.
-Heiko Yamazaki, the General and Ironsoul Enforcer both want to recur artifacts, which you do have plenty of, but you have exactly one artifact that can reliably be put in the graveyard (Commander's Sphere). If I had multiple artifact recursion cards, I would want to make sure they had targets, especially if I was copying the triggers. Sure, someone may blow up your other artifacts, but if not, you've got dead cards/abilities. I would consider Executioner's Capsule, Nihil Spellbomb, Wayfarer's Bauble, Burnished Hart, etc. Of course, you don't want to overdo it either, given you aren't guaranteed to see either of the recursion Samurai.
-18 creatures is a bit light for a tribal deck. Is this supposed to be tribal or Voltron? (Again, themes that can fight each other). If tribal, you want more creatures. If Voltron, more pump (like Blackblade Reforged - it may not trigger with your commander, but it works really nicely if you're double-triggering Bitterthorn and/or Sword of the Animist) and more evasion (like Brotherhood Regalia).
-Coat of Arms has a habit of backfiring splendidly on people when someone with another tribal deck has more creatures or more evasion. If you're not going tribal, cut this. Even if you are, be careful and never drop it unless you can kill the next player who will benefit from it.Nothing against a fun, flavorful deck, but going wide with unrestricted abilities that Isshin can double is the better route, in my opinion.Looks like a fun list, with lots of good abilities to double.
Our lists are similar but different, so they may share some of the same strategy. When I play my Isshin deck, aside from just pure value, my main wincon isn't combat damage so much as direct damage. I try to build up as many tokens as I can with Adeline, Resplendent Cathar, Anim Pakal, Thousandth Moon, Hero of Bladehold, Leonin Warleader, and Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin, and then drain my opponents with Arabella, Abandoned Doll, Brutal Hordechief, Commissar Severina Raine, Hellrider, and Mishra, Claimed by Gix. Caesar, Legion's Emperor does double duty, producing tokens and throwing around double damage. Other damage/life loss cards are Balor, Emberwilde Captain, Unquenchable Fury, Caustic Bronco, and Firemane Avenger.
But the bottom line is which deck speaks to you more? Which one will you enjoy playing more?
2024 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter