Hello!
After putting it off for almost a decade, I finally pulled the trigger and decided to start making a Commander deck.
Ever since I saw Damia, Sage of Stone I knew I wanted to have her as my Commander. My main issue of all things is knowing what ratios to use. Since I've been slowly hoarding random cards that I thought would be useful for EDH, I've collected a pile of "goodstuff" that I would imagine are EDH staples or just good cards for the format.
Following is NOT a decklist, but a collection of cards that I have at my disposal for use in EDH that I thought would be good. The might not be. Reasoning will follow:
Pact of Negation: Emergency counter. Mana Drain: It's Mana Drain. Disallow: "I never want this ability to resolve" counter. Dissipate: "I never want to see this recur from the Graveyard" counter Fated Infatuation: Copy my best thing, plus Scry 2 if I want. Might cut this. Fact or Fiction: I originally ran this aside Gifts Ungiven until I learned it was banned. As for now it gives me value plus can put stuff in the Graveyard for later if I need it. Probably will cut this. Insidious Will: A lot of options for one card. Probably will use the second and third modes more than the first. Cryptic Command: Value town. Dig Through Time: Delve is broken. UU to draw 2 of 7 cards. Do I need bonus card draw with Damia? Probably not, but greed is the name of the game. Slaughter Pact: Emergency kill button. Vampiric Tutor: Control my next draw to be whatever I need at Instant speed. Chord of Calling: Follows up well to Chasm Skulker dying. Currently don't have much for it to hit though. Putrefy: Flexible kill spell or artifact breaker. Sultai Charm: Flexibility. Rite of Replication: Clone the best creature on the board (and late-game, do it 4 more times). Ugin's Insight: U[mana][mana]B[/mana]G[/mana] has some fatties available to it so why not capitalize on that fact and help stack my deck?
Future Sight: Play a card draw a card. A bit expensive though and with how much card draw Damia provides I might not need it. Necropotence: I'm already skipping my draw step. Might as well capitalize on it. Grave Pact: Good card. Not much synergy at the moment. Khalni Heart Expedition: Free ramp for playing the game. Sylvan Library: Draw manipulation or straight up draws if I like what I see. Growing Rites of Itlimoc: 3 mana to possibly draw a dude and turns into massive ramp if I get ahead in the game or crash Chasm Skulker into something.
Sol Ring: It's Sol Ring. Pyramid of the Pantheon: Inefficient filter for 3 turns then turns into a repeatable Black Lotus. I don't see it used in a lot of decks according to edhrec so it's probably not that good. Arcane Signet: Mana rock. Guild Signets: Filter rocks. Lightning Greaves: 2 investment for Haste and Shroud for anything I want. Thought Vessel: Great synergy with Damia and is a mana rock. Oblivion Stone: Reset button. Rings of Brighthearth: Value potential. Not sure how much synergy it has right now but once I slot in common staples it should be better. Whip of Erebos: Fat value. Bottled Cloister: Synergy with Damia. Can manipulate the stack so that I draw 7 with Damia then get all the cards exiled with it back. Do I need like 14 cards in hand? No. But it's neat and boosts Chasm Skulker to high heaven. Thran Dynamo: Big mana rock. Nevinyrral's Disk: Slow reset button.
Mono Cycling Lands: Slow mana early game, draw later game. Command Tower: It's Command Tower. Command Beacon: I want Damia out and if she leaves then I want her back ASAP. I have the mana (possibly) to keep up with her costs but if she gets too expensive then this is for that. Dual Checklands: Don't know how good these are for EDH but they're duals. Can't afford ABU duels. Dual Fastlands: Don't know how good these are for EDH at all. ETB tapped if I have 2 other lands up. Fetchlands: They're fetches. Guild Bouncelands: Mana fixing. Jwar Isle Refuge + Khans Gainlands: I feel these aren't that good but it's 1 free life plus utility. Painlands: I feel these are good early game while I wait to build my mana pool. Yes it pings for 1 if I want a color but I can live with that at 40 life. Shocklands: They're shocklands. Theros Temples: Same with the Khan Gainlands but I get a Scry off of them. Opulent Palace: Second Command Tower that ETBs tapped. Temple of the False God: Useless early game. Good late game. Terramorphic Expanse: Mana fixing.
Like I said, these are just bones. With these bones I hope to understand how to construct a skeleton, and later onto that skeleton graft flesh with other useful cards for the deck. But to continue the analogy, I have too many bones, and need to know which bones don't fit, and which bones I should use instead.
Normally I wouldn't make a thread for this, but looking at the Damia primer and a lot of other Damia decks, they're all a few years out of date. In those few years we've gotten hundreds of new cards for the potential toolbox and posts from 2-3 years ago won't take those and the possible synergies they bring into account.
I used to play Damia, Sage of Stone back in 2011 when it first released. Recently, I have been wanting to build Damia once again. However, in 2020, the format is radically different than it was almost a decade ago. There are a few problems that I am even facing as a seasoned player of the format. Nowadays, most commanders play significant roles in winning the game by enabling you to do something. Damia's ability is pretty archaic in this sense, because all it really does is draw you cards. This is why you are seeing old and outdated lists, time has not been kind to these generic Commanders that don't inherently offer you a way to win a game, written in their textbox.
Establishing your Endgame
The first thing I would do, is establish how you are going to win - is it a combo? Commander damage? Regular combat damage? Is your intention to even win, or just group hug it? This is probably, at least in my opinion, the most important part of building your deck. You want the deck to be coherent regardless of what direction you take it. Consistency and redundancy is key.
Achieving your Endgame
Once you have an idea of how you want to win, work out how you are going to get there. When I have too many cards to pick from, I will reduce this part to deciding if I want the deck to be completely streamlined or if I want it to be splashy and exciting. The latter means cards like Praetor's Counsel and Rune-Scarred Demon are on the table. The former means that I will instead have to think about tutor cards that are lower to the ground and avoid anything over 2 mana and maybe fudge for a Grim Tutor, but also running creatures of significance at your top-end. If you are scraping together what you have and making do with that, you are probably in the camp to the latter... and honestly I think that is where most the fun is anyways.
The other important part here, is that having a grasp on what your endgame is means you can determine if cards like Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun are even going to be impactful or not. I view Damia as being best when you are playing more of a passive game and grinding out a win using classic control fundamentals, so something like Growing Rites of Itlimoc isn't going to do much for me when I flip it. That does not mean you cannot make a creature heavy version of Damia, Sage of Stone though.
Finally...
If you are going to take the goodstuff approach in Commander, it is important not to get trapped evaluating a card simply on it own value but rather the value it provides to everything else within the deck. As I said before, consistency is key in commander and redundancy is your best bet of getting the deck to function as intended. Random Shardless Agents and Cryptoplasms should generally be avoided unless you deck is constructed around similar things.
For reference, my Mimeoplasm deck which is a midrange/control deck uses:
The Mimeoplasm is a very different card than Damia, Sage of Stone, but I would structure the skeleton pretty similar. I want to be drawing cards, playing bombs, and keeping mana up while I recur some of those bombs over the long game - since Damia doesn't inherently offer a way to win the game otherwise. If you don't want to use the recursion stuff, take those slots and turn them into additional creatures for toolboxing, or even planeswalkers that can help provide a board through sweeper or removal effects. Anyways, those are just my thoughts as someone who has once played Damia, and is looking to rebuild her in 2020/2021
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After putting it off for almost a decade, I finally pulled the trigger and decided to start making a Commander deck.
Ever since I saw Damia, Sage of Stone I knew I wanted to have her as my Commander. My main issue of all things is knowing what ratios to use. Since I've been slowly hoarding random cards that I thought would be useful for EDH, I've collected a pile of "goodstuff" that I would imagine are EDH staples or just good cards for the format.
Following is NOT a decklist, but a collection of cards that I have at my disposal for use in EDH that I thought would be good. The might not be. Reasoning will follow:
1x Damia, Sage of Stone
Creatures: 11
1x Chasm Skulker
1x Cryptoplasm
1x Diluvian Primordial
1x Rune-Scarred Demon
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Genesis Hydra
1x Eternal Witness
1x Thragtusk
1x Bane of Progress
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Shardless Agent
Planeswalkers: 1
1x Kiora, Master of the Depths
Instants: 14
1x Pact of Negation
1x Mana Drain
1x Disallow
1x Dissipate
1x Fated Infatuation
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Insidious Will
1x Cryptic Command
1x Dig Through Time
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Chord of Calling
1x Putrefy
1x Sultai Charm
Sorceries: 10
1x Rite of Replication
1x Ugin's Insight
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Three Visits
1x Nissa's Pilgrimage
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Hour of Promise
1x Driven//Despair
1x Future Sight
1x Necropotence
1x Grave Pact
1x Khalni Heart Expedition
1x Sylvan Library
1x Growing Rites of Itlimoc
Artifacts: 14
1x Sol Ring
1x Pyramid of the Pantheon
1x Arcane Signet
1x Dimir Signet
1x Golgari Signet
1x Simic Signet
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Thought Vessel
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Whip of Erebos
1x Bottled Cloister
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
Nonbasic Lands:
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Barren Moor
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Command Tower
1x Command Beacon
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Botanical Sanctum
1x Polluted Delta
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Jwar Isle Refuge
1x Dismal Backwater
1x Jungle Hollow
1x Thornwood Falls
1x Underground River
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Watery Grave
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Breeding Pool
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Temple of the False God
1x Opulent Palace
1x Terramorphic Expanse
Chasm Skulker: Great synergy with Damia. Grows tall and then wide if it dies.
Cryptoplasm: Clone into the best thing on the board each turn. Downside is it has to live a turn so I'm not sure how useful it'll be.
Diluvian Primordial: Cast the best thing each opponent has already played.
Rune-Scarred Demon: A Demonic Tutor for 4B more that comes with a free 6/6 flyer attached to it.
Birds of Paradise: Always good.
Genesis Hydra: Genesis Wave's cousin that comes with a free Hydra.
Eternal Witness: Another copy of the best thing I've played this game.
Thragtusk: Lots of value for one card.
Bane of Progress: Mass hate/soft reset button.
Deathrite Shaman: Always good.
Shardless Agent: Can hit some value off Cascade.
Kiora, Master of the Depths: Mostly for her +1 to help ramp out although her -2 isn't bad either.
Pact of Negation: Emergency counter.
Mana Drain: It's Mana Drain.
Disallow: "I never want this ability to resolve" counter.
Dissipate: "I never want to see this recur from the Graveyard" counter
Fated Infatuation: Copy my best thing, plus Scry 2 if I want. Might cut this.
Fact or Fiction: I originally ran this aside Gifts Ungiven until I learned it was banned. As for now it gives me value plus can put stuff in the Graveyard for later if I need it. Probably will cut this.
Insidious Will: A lot of options for one card. Probably will use the second and third modes more than the first.
Cryptic Command: Value town.
Dig Through Time: Delve is broken. UU to draw 2 of 7 cards. Do I need bonus card draw with Damia? Probably not, but greed is the name of the game.
Slaughter Pact: Emergency kill button.
Vampiric Tutor: Control my next draw to be whatever I need at Instant speed.
Chord of Calling: Follows up well to Chasm Skulker dying. Currently don't have much for it to hit though.
Putrefy: Flexible kill spell or artifact breaker.
Sultai Charm: Flexibility.
Rite of Replication: Clone the best creature on the board (and late-game, do it 4 more times).
Ugin's Insight: U[mana][mana]B[/mana]G[/mana] has some fatties available to it so why not capitalize on that fact and help stack my deck?
Demonic Tutor: It's Demonic Tutor.
Green Sun's Zenith: Doesn't currently hit much. Might cut.
Three Visits: Grab a G Shock or Forest.
Nissa's Pilgrimage: Depends on my mana base, probably will cut since I don't see myself running a ton of Forests and Kodama's Reach is probably better for 3color.
Kodama's Reach: Value.
Eldritch Evolution: Birthing Pod's weird twin. Currently not much for it to go into. 3 drop into Thragtusk is cute, as is Thragtusk into Diluvian Primordial or Rune-Scarred Demon.
Hour of Promise: Can pull out any Land but the additional effect will never happen. Will probably cut this?
Driven//Despair: Both halves are good and cheap. Probably don't need the Driven half but it's nice to have in the turns before I can drop Damia.
Future Sight: Play a card draw a card. A bit expensive though and with how much card draw Damia provides I might not need it.
Necropotence: I'm already skipping my draw step. Might as well capitalize on it.
Grave Pact: Good card. Not much synergy at the moment.
Khalni Heart Expedition: Free ramp for playing the game.
Sylvan Library: Draw manipulation or straight up draws if I like what I see.
Growing Rites of Itlimoc: 3 mana to possibly draw a dude and turns into massive ramp if I get ahead in the game or crash Chasm Skulker into something.
Sol Ring: It's Sol Ring.
Pyramid of the Pantheon: Inefficient filter for 3 turns then turns into a repeatable Black Lotus. I don't see it used in a lot of decks according to edhrec so it's probably not that good.
Arcane Signet: Mana rock.
Guild Signets: Filter rocks.
Lightning Greaves: 2 investment for Haste and Shroud for anything I want.
Thought Vessel: Great synergy with Damia and is a mana rock.
Oblivion Stone: Reset button.
Rings of Brighthearth: Value potential. Not sure how much synergy it has right now but once I slot in common staples it should be better.
Whip of Erebos: Fat value.
Bottled Cloister: Synergy with Damia. Can manipulate the stack so that I draw 7 with Damia then get all the cards exiled with it back. Do I need like 14 cards in hand? No. But it's neat and boosts Chasm Skulker to high heaven.
Thran Dynamo: Big mana rock.
Nevinyrral's Disk: Slow reset button.
Mono Cycling Lands: Slow mana early game, draw later game.
Command Tower: It's Command Tower.
Command Beacon: I want Damia out and if she leaves then I want her back ASAP. I have the mana (possibly) to keep up with her costs but if she gets too expensive then this is for that.
Dual Checklands: Don't know how good these are for EDH but they're duals. Can't afford ABU duels.
Dual Fastlands: Don't know how good these are for EDH at all. ETB tapped if I have 2 other lands up.
Fetchlands: They're fetches.
Guild Bouncelands: Mana fixing.
Jwar Isle Refuge + Khans Gainlands: I feel these aren't that good but it's 1 free life plus utility.
Painlands: I feel these are good early game while I wait to build my mana pool. Yes it pings for 1 if I want a color but I can live with that at 40 life.
Shocklands: They're shocklands.
Theros Temples: Same with the Khan Gainlands but I get a Scry off of them.
Opulent Palace: Second Command Tower that ETBs tapped.
Temple of the False God: Useless early game. Good late game.
Terramorphic Expanse: Mana fixing.
Like I said, these are just bones. With these bones I hope to understand how to construct a skeleton, and later onto that skeleton graft flesh with other useful cards for the deck. But to continue the analogy, I have too many bones, and need to know which bones don't fit, and which bones I should use instead.
Normally I wouldn't make a thread for this, but looking at the Damia primer and a lot of other Damia decks, they're all a few years out of date. In those few years we've gotten hundreds of new cards for the potential toolbox and posts from 2-3 years ago won't take those and the possible synergies they bring into account.
Thank you in advance for any advice and help!
Establishing your Endgame
The first thing I would do, is establish how you are going to win - is it a combo? Commander damage? Regular combat damage? Is your intention to even win, or just group hug it? This is probably, at least in my opinion, the most important part of building your deck. You want the deck to be coherent regardless of what direction you take it. Consistency and redundancy is key.
Achieving your Endgame
Once you have an idea of how you want to win, work out how you are going to get there. When I have too many cards to pick from, I will reduce this part to deciding if I want the deck to be completely streamlined or if I want it to be splashy and exciting. The latter means cards like Praetor's Counsel and Rune-Scarred Demon are on the table. The former means that I will instead have to think about tutor cards that are lower to the ground and avoid anything over 2 mana and maybe fudge for a Grim Tutor, but also running creatures of significance at your top-end. If you are scraping together what you have and making do with that, you are probably in the camp to the latter... and honestly I think that is where most the fun is anyways.
The other important part here, is that having a grasp on what your endgame is means you can determine if cards like Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun are even going to be impactful or not. I view Damia as being best when you are playing more of a passive game and grinding out a win using classic control fundamentals, so something like Growing Rites of Itlimoc isn't going to do much for me when I flip it. That does not mean you cannot make a creature heavy version of Damia, Sage of Stone though.
Finally...
If you are going to take the goodstuff approach in Commander, it is important not to get trapped evaluating a card simply on it own value but rather the value it provides to everything else within the deck. As I said before, consistency is key in commander and redundancy is your best bet of getting the deck to function as intended. Random Shardless Agents and Cryptoplasms should generally be avoided unless you deck is constructed around similar things.
For reference, my Mimeoplasm deck which is a midrange/control deck uses:
Creatures (18)
8 utility creatures, 10 fatty win conditions
Spells (35)
9 tutor effects, 8 counter spells, 6 recursion cards, 5 spot removal spells, 2 sweeper spells, then some card draw/selection
Artifacts (9)
5 mana rocks, 1 sweeper, 1 card draw, 2 utility
Enchantments (3)
2 card draw/selection, 1 recursion effect
Lands (34)
7 utility lands
The Mimeoplasm is a very different card than Damia, Sage of Stone, but I would structure the skeleton pretty similar. I want to be drawing cards, playing bombs, and keeping mana up while I recur some of those bombs over the long game - since Damia doesn't inherently offer a way to win the game otherwise. If you don't want to use the recursion stuff, take those slots and turn them into additional creatures for toolboxing, or even planeswalkers that can help provide a board through sweeper or removal effects. Anyways, those are just my thoughts as someone who has once played Damia, and is looking to rebuild her in 2020/2021
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE