"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
i think i don't want to watch an external video and cliff notes from that video would've sparked more discussion
regardless...
no. i don't think it'll be the death of commander. they said the same thing the first time we got them, and it really hasn't done much outside of some really good cedh builds.
i barely ever see them get played at all. sometimes a guy will roll up with a cedh version and tries too hard, but for the most part i just don't ever see them. lets also not forget that its not like they're going to do everything and anything. there will undoubtedly be very strong pairings, but there will always be existing/new unpartnered commanders that can do it just as well if not better.
if they could partner with anything, yeah sure whatever yes that might do it. but they can't do that.
if my deck has a certain gameplan in mind, and there's no partners that do it better.... well then there's no reason to use them over the commander that can do it better. its important to remember that not everyone builds around a color pair exclusively. many of us build around an ability a commander has. some build around art, or around flavor too.
The sign that mechanic is rotten. The argument "partner is good only for cEDH decks, otherwise is worthless" is the first and biggest red flag. It's an argument that show us partner is not a mechanic the format need.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
The sign that mechanic is rotten. The argument "partner is good only for cEDH decks, otherwise is worthless" is the first and biggest red flag. It's an argument that show us partner is not a mechanic the format need.
Just because theyre not aa highly played outside of cedh?
I disagree, it shows the format is fine with them. Lots of cards and entire archetypes dont get played either.
Idk, kinda just sounds like you have a grudge against them, or just want everyone to agree with you
The only problem with the mechanic is that exactly 1 of the original ones was made too strong. If Thrasios didn't exist there wouldn't be anything to discuss. That said, they've clearly decided to play it incredibly safe with the upcoming ones so there's nothing to worry about.
I honestly hope we eventually get terrible 3-color partners, I'd be super excited to play 5-color Vial Smasher
Just because theyre not aa highly played outside of cedh?
Yes? It shows that they are not interesting unless you are tryharding. Exactly what EDH shouldn't be about.
And having a mechanic that is "fine" because it's ignored 99% of the time is surely not making the game better or more fun.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
My original opinion on the partner mechanic was very negative since I was so accustomed to a 99card deck format. The idea of adding options and multiple commander taxes still bugs me. But for one exception the partners just haven't impacted the format enough.
That one exception is obviously Thrasios. His mana cost and ability are too obnoxious. He either needed to tap per activation, or require colored mana to activate.
It's rare for a card to do as much as Thrasios did to the format. Some people like it, some like myself don't.
But again, past Thrasios, I'm fine with partners now. I'm even running Silvos&Trynn since they, to me, appear to be some of the worst mythic partners ever made, thus beckoning the hipster in me to give them a try.
Just because theyre not aa highly played outside of cedh?
Yes? It shows that they are not interesting unless you are tryharding. Exactly what EDH shouldn't be about.
And having a mechanic that is "fine" because it's ignored 99% of the time is surely not making the game better or more fun.
totally disagree. just, so completely disagree here.
they're one of the only ways to get into those color pairings currently. thats it, that's one of the only ways. that automatically gives them a leg up for cedh. aiming to that end of things is not tryharding. its a certain style of edh that's appealing to quite a few people.
at the same time, they do come up in other noncedh environments. my meta is... well my meta. i rarely see them at all in mine. when i do see them they're wacky offkilter ideas that otherwise wouldn't be possible, or cedh depending on the pilot. i just don't personally see them in my group all that often but since they can be built a variety of ways that does add a bit of diversity to them. cedh is not the ONLY approach, its just the one i've seen the most often in my meta. yours might be different, that other guys might be different still.
that said, i don't see a huge array of commanders in my meta that often yet by what you're saying here that would mean the vast majority are adding nothing to the format and aren't necessary. that could also easily be extended into mechanics. that seems incredibly flawed and favors your personal style of gameplay/experiences. just because we don't see things frequently doesn't mean they're bad for the format, and just because we see them more frequently in competitive builds doesn't mean they're bad for it either.
look the reality right now is they're not dominating tables. you don't roll up to a group and see everyone playing them. you don't sit down against them and get steamrolled every single time. they're not dominating anything, even cedh has a lot of other contenders. if they were a real problem we'd see them everywhere, just dominating games. if they weren't adding anything to the format at all... well so what? lots of cards don't add anything to the format at all. your argument was that partner will be the end of edh, i'm arguing that you're incorrect and we would've seen that by now. these things have existed for 4 years already. if they were killing the format it would be dead by now.
is it easy to print totally broken ones that do end up dominating everything? well yeah absolutely. its wotc after all. that's where the rules committee comes in and bans them. the partner mechanic itself is pretty okay, so far its been fairly balanced while bringing diversity to tables, and it sure as hell has not killed edh.
I'm even running Silvos&Trynn since they, to me, appear to be some of the worst mythic partners ever made, thus beckoning the hipster in me to give them a try.
Partner and Partner With are two completely different beasts.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Yes? It shows that they are not interesting unless you are tryharding. Exactly what EDH shouldn't be about.
And having a mechanic that is "fine" because it's ignored 99% of the time is surely not making the game better or more fun.
I think there's a huge misdirect about the competitive viability of these things. Thrasios + Tymna are the cEDH powerhouse, but that's not because they're incredibly scary commanders in a vacuum. It's because cEDH cares way more about low mana curves, infinite mana outlets, and efficient early card advantage - things that casual EDH generally isn't as focused on. If you take a casual EDH list and throw T&T in front of it, they'll be...fine. Not insane, just fine. Thrasios's ability is nowhere near busted on face value, nor is Tymna's.
If I had to sit down across from a casual EDH deck playing T&T vs one playing Golos, I'd rather play T&T all day every day. Golos demands removal, T&T do not. They're only scary when they're piloting a cEDH deck that can leverage their early CA, having an extra card, low mana costs, and infinite mana outlet to full potential. For a casual deck, they're good but not terrifying. Pretty tame TBH, even if they're a bit faster off the block than other, more impactful commanders.
Partners are definitely not a problem, and I don't see them becoming a problem unless wotc does something really stupid - which they could just as easily do with a non-partner commander.
And while people say "partner and partner with are two totally different things!"...meh. I don't really agree. Pir and Toothy are honestly among the most annoying, if not THE most annoying, partners to play against imo. Even if they could partner with someone else, they'd probably still be most irritating with each other. They're basically two commanders that both demand removal or they spiral out of control, and toothy doesn't even have decency to be countered by exiling removal. And they're "fair" so people bring them to casual EDH all the time, unlike T&T cEDH decks. Sure, maybe at some future point when there are 500 partners wotc will screw up and create an infinite combo between two of them, but even then, they'll be annoying in cEDH and everyone else will probably steer clear. And right now the spookiest scariest thing parnter is doing is just sticking two moderately efficient draw engines together that have practically zero synergy. Ooh, so scary. That's nowhere near as worrying as the design space of partner with imo, where they intentionally try to make them synergistic.
Thrasios + Tymna are the cEDH powerhouse, but that's not because they're incredibly scary commanders in a vacuum. It's because cEDH cares way more about low mana curves, infinite mana outlets, and efficient early card advantage - things that casual EDH generally isn't as focused on.
.
The main problem with partner is not the power level. Is that they are boring. Is that they pervert what the format is about. Instead of creating your deck based on your general, you create your general couple based on your deck. The end result is something incredibly boring that either becomes a goodstuff fest or nothing.
Now add to this boring mess of an ability the fact that there is also a power level problem, it also created some broken ones and you'll see why many people think it's a failure.
You'll see the same with Commander Legends i guarantee it. 90% of them will be forgotten because they'll just be boring, the only exception will be a couple of broken ones.
and while people say "partner and partner with are two totally different things!"...meh. I don't really agree. Pir and Toothy are honestly among the most annoying, if not THE most annoying, partners to play against imo. Even if they could partner with someone else, they'd probably still be most irritating with each other. They're basically two commanders that both demand removal or they spiral out of control, and toothy doesn't even have decency to be countered by exiling removal. And they're "fair" so people bring them to casual EDH all the time, unlike T&T cEDH decks. Sure, maybe at some future point when there are 500 partners wotc will screw up and create an infinite combo between two of them, but even then, they'll be annoying in cEDH and everyone else will probably steer clear. And right now the spookiest scariest thing parnter is doing is just sticking two moderately efficient draw engines together that have practically zero synergy. Ooh, so scary. That's nowhere near as worrying as the design space of partner with imo, where they intentionally try to make them synergistic.
It's not a power level argument, it's a design argument. With partner you just create vague stuff that will be put together to create the goodstuffest goodstuff or something mediocre. Partner With actually give you a direction and a theme.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
It's not a power level argument, it's a design argument. With partner you just create vague stuff that will be put together to create the goodstuffest goodstuff or something mediocre.
First time hearing this argument, but sure, I'll roll with it. Let's actually look at the partners and see if it holds up.
Akiri - artifact synergy, voltron
Alena - high power synergy, creature synergy
Bruse - combat/attack synergy, voltron
Halana - deathtouch synergy, high power synergy, creature synergy
Ikra Shidiqi - high toughness synergy, evasion synergy, creature synergy
Ishai - counter synergy, voltron, possibly group hug synergy
Kraum - goodstuff
Kydele - draw synergy, big colorless synergy
Ludevic - political? this guy sucks and I refuse to defend him
Ravos - go-wide synergy, dredge/recursion synergy
reyhan - counter synergy
sengir - removal synergy, voltron
sidar konda - weenie synergy, saboteur synergy
silas renn - artifact synergy
tana, the bloodsower - buff synergy especially anthems
prismatic piper - what do you want from me?
thrasios - activated ability synergy, infinite mana sink, land synergy (I built him as 98 lands and it was a blast)
Tymna - evasion synergy, lifegain synergy
vial smasher - delve/cost reduction synergy, big spell synergy
Ok, so I'm counting basically one that doesn't really have any synergy to speak of (unless you count the prismatic piper, which I don't). Of course some are more synergistic than others, but that's also true of non-partner commanders. Not that people always build to their synergies, of course. People are gonna build goodstuff decks, that's not really partners' fault. And of course since they're of the only ways to build 4c, that increases the likelihood people will just play them for the colors. But as we get more, there'll be more opportunity to find partners that synergize in interesting ways with each other.
the fact that there is also a power level problem
[citation needed]
Even with his popularity in cEDH, Thrasios isn't even in the top 10 saltiest legendaries. And I'd bet even that level of salt is almost certainly because of his power with infinite mana, something that's not really relevant to casual EDH. And none of the other partners even make the list. It's hard to find good evidence for power level in casual EDH, but that seems as good of evidence as any, and better than none whatsoever. And in terms of popularity, T&T is down at #98, and basically only because of cEDH based on the top "synergy cards". So no, I don't think there's a power level problem and I'm going to need more than your word on the subject to change my mind.
I mean datas are clear enough. Why aren't people playing tons of partner then? Because they are boring. That Tana+Reyahn deck that according to you may work and give you a direction, it's just boring. Same for plenty others.
Why would i ever play Tana+something when every other token general is more interesting than that.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I mean datas are clear enough. Why aren't people playing tons of partner then? Because they are boring. That Tana+Reyahn deck that according to you may work and give you a direction, it's just boring. Same for plenty others.
Why would i ever play Tana+something when every other token general is more interesting than that.
Partners ARE pretty popular overall. It's just hard to compare to other non-partner commanders because, depending how you look at it, there's hundreds of combinations. Tana, while not someone that catches my eye particularly, has ~1300 decks where she's one of the commanders. That's roughly in the top 100 - popular but not omnipresent.
What numbers do you want here? If they were super high, it'd be because they're too powerful and broken. If they're too low, it's because they're boring and nobody likes them. No matter what the numbers are, you'll try to twist them to proving your point - even though they're pretty much in the middle, right where presumably you'd like them to be. What would make you happy?
Getting to mix commanders together inherently provides more directions - Tana as a standalone commander is kinda boring, but mix her together with sidar kondo and now you've got an evasive commander that makes evasive tokens. Or with Ravos makes more tokens which are bigger, but lack evasion. You get more options for customization, which I think makes it a lot more interesting. Besides which, it gives nearly every color combination quite a few more options, at the cost of relatively few cards. So maybe you want to do an archetype that isn't really supported by a commander in those colors - there's probably some partners that will at least give you a few decent creatures in the command zone. I've used partners quite a few times, sometimes synergizing around both commanders (sidar + tymna), sometimes around just one (reyhan + kraum), sometimes mostly just for the colors (silas + sidar). For just 15 cards with pretty simple abilities they give a ton of depth to the format.
And honestly, even Tana isn't that bad. Sure, she's not my cup of tea, but honestly no token commanders really are. It's still a unique effect for a commander that pushes her in a different direction than other token decks. If you don't like her, then that's fine. You probably don't like most of the non-partner commanders either - I know I don't. But I don't worry about it, especially if that commander isn't particularly powerful and won't make games miserable in the future (and none of the partners are particularly scary). Just pick something else, like you do whenever any other non-partner commander comes along that doesn't interest you.
I have already stated my opinion and i won't repeat. To me those Tana you mentioned are just experiment that people put together and disbanded after 2 months. But whatever.
Partner With is a mechanic i don't particularly like too, because i really dislike the idea of having two generals, but from a design point of view is surely better than partner by a lot. Cool concept (both from flavor and mechanics) like Haldan+Pako can't be done with partner.
We will see when these new partners will come out. To me that terrible Baron Sengir is already enough.
My prediction is that a lot of them will be completely irrelevant and will be ignored, while a couple of them will be liked because they are broken.
On EDHREC everyone will buy the new partners just for the sake of hipsterism, trying to find the most hipster combination. After 3 months, no one will care about them at all.
Partner won't be the end of commander, it will just be a waste of 40 legendary card slot.
Feel free to mock me if my prediction will be wrong.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I have already stated my opinion and i won't repeat. To me those Tana you mentioned are just experiment that people put together and disbanded after 2 months. But whatever.
Partner With is a mechanic i don't particularly like too, because i really dislike the idea of having two generals, but from a design point of view is surely better than partner by a lot. Cool concept (both from flavor and mechanics) like Haldan+Pako can't be done with partner.
We will see when these new partners will come out. To me that terrible Baron Sengir is already enough.
My prediction is that a lot of them will be completely irrelevant and will be ignored, while a couple of them will be liked because they are broken.
On EDHREC everyone will buy the new partners just for the sake of hipsterism, trying to find the most hipster combination. After 3 months, no one will care about them at all.
Partner won't be the end of commander, it will just be a waste of 40 legendary card slot.
Feel free to mock me if my prediction will be wrong.
EDHrec only keeps 2 years of data and Tana was printed 4 years ago so...
You're free to like partner with more, but personally I think it's more fun to allow for more discovery and personalization. Some things partner is better with, some things partner with is better with. Don't know why partner with would be "surely better". If you like it more, cool. Personally there are some partner withs that I like and some that I don't. But I don't mind any of the regular partners, even if I'm not rushing out to build all of them.
What's so terrible about baron? I mean he doesn't interest me personally, but I'm usually only interested in a couple legends per commander set release. I'm not losing sleeping of it.
"A lot of them will be completely irrelevant and will be ignored, while a couple of them will be liked because they are broken."...sounds exactly like every other set release? Again, I don't see what would actually make you happy. You've set yourself up to be angry no matter what the result is. And I wouldn't call any existing partners broken whatsoever, like honestly not even close to broken. So I'm dubious that any new ones will prove to be problematic, though time will tell.
So again, EDHrec, 2 years, yadda yadda. People are still playing the original partners, even the really boring ones. But also I have absolutely no clue where this hipster rant is coming from. You do realize it's 2020 and no one has complained about hipster subculture for years, right? I've never heard of someone claiming that anyone ever built a deck out of "hipsterism", but you sure seem to want to crap on people who genuinely enjoy the mechanic for some reason. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to. But acting like no one really likes them is some narcissistic BS. I've enjoyed the partner decks I've made immensely, in fact my 98 land Thrasios is one of my favourite decks I've built. And dismissing my enjoyment as "just for the sake of hipsterdom" is the worst take I've heard in a long time.
Legendary slots don't get "wasted". There isn't some divine law that we only get so many legends per year. These 40 legends "slots" only exist because of commander legends (ugh, overloaded terms...), and having tried to draft commander without partners and it being kinda disappointing, I think partners is definitely a smart solution to making the draft work. Using non-partner legends is pretty difficult because it really limits draft flexibility, which is key to making the draft a fun experience. Without partner this product likely wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't get any new legendaries at all.
"Some legends will be popular and some won't be very popular. Feel free to mock me if my prediction will be wrong."
Nah, pretty sure you nailed it buddy. All you had to do was make your prediction so open-ended that it could apply to every set release since homelands.
I have already stated my opinion and i won't repeat. To me those Tana you mentioned are just experiment that people put together and disbanded after 2 months. But whatever.
Partner With is a mechanic i don't particularly like too, because i really dislike the idea of having two generals, but from a design point of view is surely better than partner by a lot. Cool concept (both from flavor and mechanics) like Haldan+Pako can't be done with partner.
We will see when these new partners will come out. To me that terrible Baron Sengir is already enough.
My prediction is that a lot of them will be completely irrelevant and will be ignored, while a couple of them will be liked because they are broken.
On EDHREC everyone will buy the new partners just for the sake of hipsterism, trying to find the most hipster combination. After 3 months, no one will care about them at all.
Partner won't be the end of commander, it will just be a waste of 40 legendary card slot.
Feel free to mock me if my prediction will be wrong.
EDHrec only keeps 2 years of data and Tana was printed 4 years ago so...
You're free to like partner with more, but personally I think it's more fun to allow for more discovery and personalization.
This kinda where I am at. I have a goal to try and build a deck for each color and color combo, but not gonna force a deck/color combo unless I have a commander(s) or deck idea that I like or they have a character I really like. Not to sound hipster but I don't like certain "common" deck types and I look forward to partner to maybe giving me some more options or at least (with Hal and Alena) give me some room in a deck theme I'm not found of to find a style of game I like.
Currently WU and mono-colored are the hardest ones for me to find decks I like, with commander legends having partner I'm really looking forward to maybe finding two partners that work together to make a deck for those colors I like.
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What do you guys think?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
regardless...
no. i don't think it'll be the death of commander. they said the same thing the first time we got them, and it really hasn't done much outside of some really good cedh builds.
i barely ever see them get played at all. sometimes a guy will roll up with a cedh version and tries too hard, but for the most part i just don't ever see them. lets also not forget that its not like they're going to do everything and anything. there will undoubtedly be very strong pairings, but there will always be existing/new unpartnered commanders that can do it just as well if not better.
if they could partner with anything, yeah sure whatever yes that might do it. but they can't do that.
if my deck has a certain gameplan in mind, and there's no partners that do it better.... well then there's no reason to use them over the commander that can do it better. its important to remember that not everyone builds around a color pair exclusively. many of us build around an ability a commander has. some build around art, or around flavor too.
The sign that mechanic is rotten. The argument "partner is good only for cEDH decks, otherwise is worthless" is the first and biggest red flag. It's an argument that show us partner is not a mechanic the format need.
Just because theyre not aa highly played outside of cedh?
I disagree, it shows the format is fine with them. Lots of cards and entire archetypes dont get played either.
Idk, kinda just sounds like you have a grudge against them, or just want everyone to agree with you
I honestly hope we eventually get terrible 3-color partners, I'd be super excited to play 5-color Vial Smasher
Thrasios alone at the helm of one, Silas Renn alone at the helm of the other
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Yes? It shows that they are not interesting unless you are tryharding. Exactly what EDH shouldn't be about.
And having a mechanic that is "fine" because it's ignored 99% of the time is surely not making the game better or more fun.
That one exception is obviously Thrasios. His mana cost and ability are too obnoxious. He either needed to tap per activation, or require colored mana to activate.
It's rare for a card to do as much as Thrasios did to the format. Some people like it, some like myself don't.
But again, past Thrasios, I'm fine with partners now. I'm even running Silvos&Trynn since they, to me, appear to be some of the worst mythic partners ever made, thus beckoning the hipster in me to give them a try.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
totally disagree. just, so completely disagree here.
they're one of the only ways to get into those color pairings currently. thats it, that's one of the only ways. that automatically gives them a leg up for cedh. aiming to that end of things is not tryharding. its a certain style of edh that's appealing to quite a few people.
at the same time, they do come up in other noncedh environments. my meta is... well my meta. i rarely see them at all in mine. when i do see them they're wacky offkilter ideas that otherwise wouldn't be possible, or cedh depending on the pilot. i just don't personally see them in my group all that often but since they can be built a variety of ways that does add a bit of diversity to them. cedh is not the ONLY approach, its just the one i've seen the most often in my meta. yours might be different, that other guys might be different still.
that said, i don't see a huge array of commanders in my meta that often yet by what you're saying here that would mean the vast majority are adding nothing to the format and aren't necessary. that could also easily be extended into mechanics. that seems incredibly flawed and favors your personal style of gameplay/experiences. just because we don't see things frequently doesn't mean they're bad for the format, and just because we see them more frequently in competitive builds doesn't mean they're bad for it either.
look the reality right now is they're not dominating tables. you don't roll up to a group and see everyone playing them. you don't sit down against them and get steamrolled every single time. they're not dominating anything, even cedh has a lot of other contenders. if they were a real problem we'd see them everywhere, just dominating games. if they weren't adding anything to the format at all... well so what? lots of cards don't add anything to the format at all. your argument was that partner will be the end of edh, i'm arguing that you're incorrect and we would've seen that by now. these things have existed for 4 years already. if they were killing the format it would be dead by now.
is it easy to print totally broken ones that do end up dominating everything? well yeah absolutely. its wotc after all. that's where the rules committee comes in and bans them. the partner mechanic itself is pretty okay, so far its been fairly balanced while bringing diversity to tables, and it sure as hell has not killed edh.
Partner and Partner With are two completely different beasts.
If I had to sit down across from a casual EDH deck playing T&T vs one playing Golos, I'd rather play T&T all day every day. Golos demands removal, T&T do not. They're only scary when they're piloting a cEDH deck that can leverage their early CA, having an extra card, low mana costs, and infinite mana outlet to full potential. For a casual deck, they're good but not terrifying. Pretty tame TBH, even if they're a bit faster off the block than other, more impactful commanders.
Partners are definitely not a problem, and I don't see them becoming a problem unless wotc does something really stupid - which they could just as easily do with a non-partner commander.
And while people say "partner and partner with are two totally different things!"...meh. I don't really agree. Pir and Toothy are honestly among the most annoying, if not THE most annoying, partners to play against imo. Even if they could partner with someone else, they'd probably still be most irritating with each other. They're basically two commanders that both demand removal or they spiral out of control, and toothy doesn't even have decency to be countered by exiling removal. And they're "fair" so people bring them to casual EDH all the time, unlike T&T cEDH decks. Sure, maybe at some future point when there are 500 partners wotc will screw up and create an infinite combo between two of them, but even then, they'll be annoying in cEDH and everyone else will probably steer clear. And right now the spookiest scariest thing parnter is doing is just sticking two moderately efficient draw engines together that have practically zero synergy. Ooh, so scary. That's nowhere near as worrying as the design space of partner with imo, where they intentionally try to make them synergistic.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The main problem with partner is not the power level. Is that they are boring. Is that they pervert what the format is about. Instead of creating your deck based on your general, you create your general couple based on your deck. The end result is something incredibly boring that either becomes a goodstuff fest or nothing.
Now add to this boring mess of an ability the fact that there is also a power level problem, it also created some broken ones and you'll see why many people think it's a failure.
You'll see the same with Commander Legends i guarantee it. 90% of them will be forgotten because they'll just be boring, the only exception will be a couple of broken ones.
It's not a power level argument, it's a design argument. With partner you just create vague stuff that will be put together to create the goodstuffest goodstuff or something mediocre. Partner With actually give you a direction and a theme.
Akiri - artifact synergy, voltron
Alena - high power synergy, creature synergy
Bruse - combat/attack synergy, voltron
Halana - deathtouch synergy, high power synergy, creature synergy
Ikra Shidiqi - high toughness synergy, evasion synergy, creature synergy
Ishai - counter synergy, voltron, possibly group hug synergy
Kraum - goodstuff
Kydele - draw synergy, big colorless synergy
Ludevic - political? this guy sucks and I refuse to defend him
Ravos - go-wide synergy, dredge/recursion synergy
reyhan - counter synergy
sengir - removal synergy, voltron
sidar konda - weenie synergy, saboteur synergy
silas renn - artifact synergy
tana, the bloodsower - buff synergy especially anthems
prismatic piper - what do you want from me?
thrasios - activated ability synergy, infinite mana sink, land synergy (I built him as 98 lands and it was a blast)
Tymna - evasion synergy, lifegain synergy
vial smasher - delve/cost reduction synergy, big spell synergy
Ok, so I'm counting basically one that doesn't really have any synergy to speak of (unless you count the prismatic piper, which I don't). Of course some are more synergistic than others, but that's also true of non-partner commanders. Not that people always build to their synergies, of course. People are gonna build goodstuff decks, that's not really partners' fault. And of course since they're of the only ways to build 4c, that increases the likelihood people will just play them for the colors. But as we get more, there'll be more opportunity to find partners that synergize in interesting ways with each other.
[citation needed]
Even with his popularity in cEDH, Thrasios isn't even in the top 10 saltiest legendaries. And I'd bet even that level of salt is almost certainly because of his power with infinite mana, something that's not really relevant to casual EDH. And none of the other partners even make the list. It's hard to find good evidence for power level in casual EDH, but that seems as good of evidence as any, and better than none whatsoever. And in terms of popularity, T&T is down at #98, and basically only because of cEDH based on the top "synergy cards". So no, I don't think there's a power level problem and I'm going to need more than your word on the subject to change my mind.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Why would i ever play Tana+something when every other token general is more interesting than that.
Partners ARE pretty popular overall. It's just hard to compare to other non-partner commanders because, depending how you look at it, there's hundreds of combinations. Tana, while not someone that catches my eye particularly, has ~1300 decks where she's one of the commanders. That's roughly in the top 100 - popular but not omnipresent.
What numbers do you want here? If they were super high, it'd be because they're too powerful and broken. If they're too low, it's because they're boring and nobody likes them. No matter what the numbers are, you'll try to twist them to proving your point - even though they're pretty much in the middle, right where presumably you'd like them to be. What would make you happy?
Getting to mix commanders together inherently provides more directions - Tana as a standalone commander is kinda boring, but mix her together with sidar kondo and now you've got an evasive commander that makes evasive tokens. Or with Ravos makes more tokens which are bigger, but lack evasion. You get more options for customization, which I think makes it a lot more interesting. Besides which, it gives nearly every color combination quite a few more options, at the cost of relatively few cards. So maybe you want to do an archetype that isn't really supported by a commander in those colors - there's probably some partners that will at least give you a few decent creatures in the command zone. I've used partners quite a few times, sometimes synergizing around both commanders (sidar + tymna), sometimes around just one (reyhan + kraum), sometimes mostly just for the colors (silas + sidar). For just 15 cards with pretty simple abilities they give a ton of depth to the format.
And honestly, even Tana isn't that bad. Sure, she's not my cup of tea, but honestly no token commanders really are. It's still a unique effect for a commander that pushes her in a different direction than other token decks. If you don't like her, then that's fine. You probably don't like most of the non-partner commanders either - I know I don't. But I don't worry about it, especially if that commander isn't particularly powerful and won't make games miserable in the future (and none of the partners are particularly scary). Just pick something else, like you do whenever any other non-partner commander comes along that doesn't interest you.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Partner With is a mechanic i don't particularly like too, because i really dislike the idea of having two generals, but from a design point of view is surely better than partner by a lot. Cool concept (both from flavor and mechanics) like Haldan+Pako can't be done with partner.
We will see when these new partners will come out. To me that terrible Baron Sengir is already enough.
My prediction is that a lot of them will be completely irrelevant and will be ignored, while a couple of them will be liked because they are broken.
On EDHREC everyone will buy the new partners just for the sake of hipsterism, trying to find the most hipster combination. After 3 months, no one will care about them at all.
Partner won't be the end of commander, it will just be a waste of 40 legendary card slot.
Feel free to mock me if my prediction will be wrong.
You're free to like partner with more, but personally I think it's more fun to allow for more discovery and personalization. Some things partner is better with, some things partner with is better with. Don't know why partner with would be "surely better". If you like it more, cool. Personally there are some partner withs that I like and some that I don't. But I don't mind any of the regular partners, even if I'm not rushing out to build all of them.
What's so terrible about baron? I mean he doesn't interest me personally, but I'm usually only interested in a couple legends per commander set release. I'm not losing sleeping of it.
"A lot of them will be completely irrelevant and will be ignored, while a couple of them will be liked because they are broken."...sounds exactly like every other set release? Again, I don't see what would actually make you happy. You've set yourself up to be angry no matter what the result is. And I wouldn't call any existing partners broken whatsoever, like honestly not even close to broken. So I'm dubious that any new ones will prove to be problematic, though time will tell.
So again, EDHrec, 2 years, yadda yadda. People are still playing the original partners, even the really boring ones. But also I have absolutely no clue where this hipster rant is coming from. You do realize it's 2020 and no one has complained about hipster subculture for years, right? I've never heard of someone claiming that anyone ever built a deck out of "hipsterism", but you sure seem to want to crap on people who genuinely enjoy the mechanic for some reason. If you don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to. But acting like no one really likes them is some narcissistic BS. I've enjoyed the partner decks I've made immensely, in fact my 98 land Thrasios is one of my favourite decks I've built. And dismissing my enjoyment as "just for the sake of hipsterdom" is the worst take I've heard in a long time.
Legendary slots don't get "wasted". There isn't some divine law that we only get so many legends per year. These 40 legends "slots" only exist because of commander legends (ugh, overloaded terms...), and having tried to draft commander without partners and it being kinda disappointing, I think partners is definitely a smart solution to making the draft work. Using non-partner legends is pretty difficult because it really limits draft flexibility, which is key to making the draft a fun experience. Without partner this product likely wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't get any new legendaries at all.
"Some legends will be popular and some won't be very popular. Feel free to mock me if my prediction will be wrong."
Nah, pretty sure you nailed it buddy. All you had to do was make your prediction so open-ended that it could apply to every set release since homelands.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
This kinda where I am at. I have a goal to try and build a deck for each color and color combo, but not gonna force a deck/color combo unless I have a commander(s) or deck idea that I like or they have a character I really like. Not to sound hipster but I don't like certain "common" deck types and I look forward to partner to maybe giving me some more options or at least (with Hal and Alena) give me some room in a deck theme I'm not found of to find a style of game I like.
Currently WU and mono-colored are the hardest ones for me to find decks I like, with commander legends having partner I'm really looking forward to maybe finding two partners that work together to make a deck for those colors I like.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"