Rule 11 updated to enable the companion mechanic.
Lutri, the Spellchaser is banned.
Flash is banned.
Next update: June 29th (assuming that the Core 2021 prerelease is not moved)
Companion
When we first saw the companion mechanic, our immediate reaction was “well, this is cool; it won’t work in Commander.” But, looking at the mechanic, there was nothing problematic about it. It was actually the kind of thing we really like to encourage. Brew with restrictions! Since we want the rules of Commander to match up to Magic where possible and healthy for the format, we took a second look.
We still don’t think Wishes and the other get-other-cards-from-outside-the-game are something we want in Commander. We outline our stance on wishes in the FAQ and none of the concerns we have with them applied here. The only issue was that the mechanic referred to outside the game. If the companion started in the Command Zone or Exile, it would have been fine. Since that’s clearly an arbitrary mechanical distinction, how could we adjust the rules to reflect this?
It turns out that it was easy. The problem with all prior mechanics which used outside-the-game was their open-endedness. They brought cards in from a giant unbounded set. All we had to do was change one word in Rule 11:
11: Abilities which bring other card(s) you own from outside the game into the game (such as Living Wish; Spawnsire of Ulamog; Karn, the Great Creator) do not function in Commander.
Companion now works within the framework of Commander – it’s bringing itself in – and nothing else changes. Similar mechanics will be fine in the future as long as they remain self-contained (though if we think they’re problematic, we’ll obviously take another look and ask ourselves why).
We recognize that this does let you go past the 100 card rule that is iconic to Commander. However, a single extra card you have to jump through serious hoops to get is philosophically okay in the same way that a tiny number of cards (like Relentless Rats) are able to violate the even-more-important singleton rule.
Lutri
That left Lutri. We hate the idea of banning a card prior to release. We gave serious consideration to announcing that the card would almost certainly be banned with Core 2021 and letting it be legal rather than break our stance that all cards should be given a chance.
The argument that finally won the day was that not everyone would see that announcement. Many people would buy a legal Lutri as it goes alongside every deck with red and blue in it. Knowing that it would certainly be banned, we were uncomfortable setting up those folks, who are in many ways our primary audience, for far greater disappointment. Better to bend our stance.
This is where we say that it was a one-time thing and we don’t expect it to happen again, but that might not be entirely accurate. Wizards is free to explore weird spaces, and, as demonstrated here, those spaces may occasionally do something really problematic. If another card comes along that also does something novel that is incompatible with the format, we’ll ban it immediately. Note that “stupidly powerful” is not novel; those cards will get their chance to prove themselves.
Flash
Speaking of exceptional decisions, we are banning Flash (the card, not the mechanic). Enough cEDH players who we trust have convinced us that it is the only change they need for the environment they seek to cultivate. Though they represent a small fraction of the Commander playerbase, we are willing to make this effort for them. It should not be taken as a signal that we are considering any kind of change in how we intend to manage the format; this is an extraordinary step, and one we are unlikely to repeat.
We use the banlist to guide players in how to approach the format and hope Flash’s role on the list will be to signal “cheating things into play quickly in non-interactive ways isn’t interesting, don’t do that.”
We believe Commander is still best as a social-focused format and will not be making any changes to accommodate tournament play. Taking responsibility for your and your opponents’ fun, including setting expectations with your group, is a fundamental part of the Commander philosophy. Organizers who want to move towards more untrusted games should consider adding additional rules or guidance to create the Commander experience they want to offer.
That's the beginning of a slippery slope. Now that they've done it once, cEDH players will be more and more likely to ask for other bans... What about Hulk? What about Thassa's Oracle? What about Ad Nauseam? etc. This creates a bad case of jurisprudence that will make the cEDH community way more inclined to pester the RC at every occasion, way more than they've done it until now.
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
That's the beginning of a slippery slope. Now that they've done it once, cEDH players will be more and more likely to ask for other bans... What about Hulk? What about Thassa's Oracle? What about Ad Nauseam? etc. This creates a bad case of jurisprudence that will make the cEDH community way more inclined to pester the RC at every occasion, way more than they've done it until now.
You are aware that casual players were also asking for flash to be banned right?
I’m sure Sheldon and the other rules committee will listen to the casual community as well not just the CEDH (they take casual into factor with bans)
That's the beginning of a slippery slope. Now that they've done it once, cEDH players will be more and more likely to ask for other bans... What about Hulk? What about Thassa's Oracle? What about Ad Nauseam? etc. This creates a bad case of jurisprudence that will make the cEDH community way more inclined to pester the RC at every occasion, way more than they've done it until now.
You are aware that casual players were also asking for flash to be banned right?
I’m sure Sheldon and the other rules committee will listen to the casual community as well not just the CEDH (they take casual into factor with bans)
But they don't mention it anywhere in their communiqué:
Flash
Speaking of exceptional decisions, we are banning Flash (the card, not the mechanic). Enough cEDH players who we trust have convinced us that it is the only change they need for the environment they seek to cultivate. Though they represent a small fraction of the Commander playerbase, we are willing to make this effort for them. It should not be taken as a signal that we are considering any kind of change in how we intend to manage the format; this is an extraordinary step, and one we are unlikely to repeat.
We use the banlist to guide players in how to approach the format and hope Flash’s role on the list will be to signal “cheating things into play quickly in non-interactive ways isn’t interesting, don’t do that.”
We believe Commander is still best as a social-focused format and will not be making any changes to accommodate tournament play. Taking responsibility for your and your opponents’ fun, including setting expectations with your group, is a fundamental part of the Commander philosophy. Organizers who want to move towards more untrusted games should consider adding additional rules or guidance to create the Commander experience they want to offer.
Flash was clearly banned because of cEDH. While I don't care about the card itself, I do care that they are backtracking in their approach of the banlist, especially after having made their Philosophy Document not so long ago.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
That's the beginning of a slippery slope. Now that they've done it once, cEDH players will be more and more likely to ask for other bans... What about Hulk? What about Thassa's Oracle? What about Ad Nauseam? etc. This creates a bad case of jurisprudence that will make the cEDH community way more inclined to pester the RC at every occasion, way more than they've done it until now.
You are aware that casual players were also asking for flash to be banned right?
I’m sure Sheldon and the other rules committee will listen to the casual community as well not just the CEDH (they take casual into factor with bans)
But they don't mention it anywhere in their communiqué:
Flash
Speaking of exceptional decisions, we are banning Flash (the card, not the mechanic). Enough cEDH players who we trust have convinced us that it is the only change they need for the environment they seek to cultivate. Though they represent a small fraction of the Commander playerbase, we are willing to make this effort for them. It should not be taken as a signal that we are considering any kind of change in how we intend to manage the format; this is an extraordinary step, and one we are unlikely to repeat.
We use the banlist to guide players in how to approach the format and hope Flash’s role on the list will be to signal “cheating things into play quickly in non-interactive ways isn’t interesting, don’t do that.”
We believe Commander is still best as a social-focused format and will not be making any changes to accommodate tournament play. Taking responsibility for your and your opponents’ fun, including setting expectations with your group, is a fundamental part of the Commander philosophy. Organizers who want to move towards more untrusted games should consider adding additional rules or guidance to create the Commander experience they want to offer.
Flash was clearly banned because of cEDH. While I don't care about the card itself, I do care that they are backtracking in their approach of the banlist, especially after having made their Philosophy Document not so long ago.
I understand so it’s the first cedh ban purposes but you got to understand flashis infact a unfun card tables hate quick games any way going by your examples
protean hulk I think with flash gone it’s now even harder to believe it will be banned again (but there’s still tricks though)
Thassa's Oracle I think labortory maniac would have Ben banned a long time ago if that’s the case but this is a ETB version though but the cards required are pretty much the same as the maniac/war Jace and devotion doesn’t get too high
Ad Nauseam I should tell you Tainted Pact is even easier to abuse and you need to build the deck in a particular way
But point is I’m sure Sheldon and the committee will still listen to casual and not ban cards particually for cedh
But point is I’m sure Sheldon and the committee will still listen to casual and not ban cards particually for cedh
If it's the only one, sure, I don't mind. But will it really be the only one? In my experience, if you give in once, you're doomed to give in multiple times. The fact that it creates room for jurisprudence is what scares me the most.
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
You are aware that casual players were also asking for flash to be banned right?
I’m sure Sheldon and the other rules committee will listen to the casual community as well not just the CEDH (they take casual into factor with bans)
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
You are aware that casual players were also asking for flash to be banned right?
I’m sure Sheldon and the other rules committee will listen to the casual community as well not just the CEDH (they take casual into factor with bans)
Where did you see any of that happening?
No really anywhere There thing I hear some people talk about flash being bad for the enviroment the only nasty thing is protean hulk with it
It’s more of people are worried that Sheldon and the other rules committe will listen to the cedh players to ban cards that don’t effect casual that much like ad nauseam for one example but they literally said this is likely the only time they are doing this
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You are aware that casual players were also asking for flash to be banned right?
I’m sure Sheldon and the other rules committee will listen to the casual community as well not just the CEDH (they take casual into factor with bans)
But they don't mention it anywhere in their communiqué:
Flash was clearly banned because of cEDH. While I don't care about the card itself, I do care that they are backtracking in their approach of the banlist, especially after having made their Philosophy Document not so long ago.
I understand so it’s the first cedh ban purposes but you got to understand flashis infact a unfun card tables hate quick games any way going by your examples
protean hulk I think with flash gone it’s now even harder to believe it will be banned again (but there’s still tricks though)
Thassa's Oracle I think labortory maniac would have Ben banned a long time ago if that’s the case but this is a ETB version though but the cards required are pretty much the same as the maniac/war Jace and devotion doesn’t get too high
Ad Nauseam I should tell you Tainted Pact is even easier to abuse and you need to build the deck in a particular way
But point is I’m sure Sheldon and the committee will still listen to casual and not ban cards particually for cedh
If it's the only one, sure, I don't mind. But will it really be the only one? In my experience, if you give in once, you're doomed to give in multiple times. The fact that it creates room for jurisprudence is what scares me the most.
But to be honest, I would rather see the community abandon the idea of a ban list for good.
Where did you see any of that happening?
No really anywhere There thing I hear some people talk about flash being bad for the enviroment the only nasty thing is protean hulk with it
It’s more of people are worried that Sheldon and the other rules committe will listen to the cedh players to ban cards that don’t effect casual that much like ad nauseam for one example but they literally said this is likely the only time they are doing this