MTG Salvation

So a while back I asked a question in Ruling forum in regards to casting Adventure (or its creature counterpart) from places outside of my hand: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/814013-adventure-and-haakon

The conclusion appears to be:

Now, under the reworked 601.3e, you just check legality based on what you actually want to do, rather than go through those hoops. Makes a lot more sense.

Example: Garruk’s Horde says, in part, “You may cast the top card of your library if it’s a creature card.” If you control Garruk’s Horde and the top card of your library is a noncreature card with morph, you may cast it using its morph ability.

Example: Melek, Izzet Paragon says, in part, “You may cast the top card of your library if it’s an instant or sorcery card.” If you control Melek, Izzet Paragon and the top card of your library is Giant Killer, an adventurer creature card whose Adventure is an instant named Chop Down, you may cast Chop Down but not Giant Killer. If instead you control Garruk’s Horde and the top card of your library is Giant Killer, you may cast Giant Killer but not Chop Down.

In other words, since Kess, Dissident Mage let you cast instant or sorcery from your graveyard once per your turn, you can technically cast Adventures from the dead as well. And, if you have a sac outlet like Ashnod's Altar/Phyrexian Tower you can sac an Adventure creature and cast it again from grave. When we return those creatures from their respective Adventure, we could pay 1 extra for Equilibrium to bounce another Adventure creature back to hand for usage, somewhat bypasses Kess's restriction.

Kess is known to be a spellsling value commander, creature is usually the minority of the deck, though with the new Adventure creature we could now have some board presence, aiming for more longevity. I don't mind saccing the said creatures for mana then cast other spells also. I wonder if this would be a fun alternative approach for her.

If you check the gatherer for any of the adventure cards it states that they are creatures in all zones except while on the stack. Adventure cards in graveyards, libraries, exile, or play are only considered creatures. For the purposes of Kess they will never be spells while in graveyard. I asked more or less the same thing for Toshiro Umezawa.

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=473052

First Ruling:

"An adventurer card is a creature card in every zone except the stack, as well as while on the stack if not cast as an Adventure. Ignore its alternative characteristics in those cases. For example, while it’s in your graveyard, Giant Killer is a white creature card whose converted mana cost is 1. It can’t be the target of the triggered ability of Mystic Sanctuary."

Kess can cast Instants in the Graveyard since you, basically, look at them as Instants or Sorceries and then see if anything lets you cast them. Normally, this is the normal rules, but Kess allows this as well.

Toshiro is different since Toshiro targets and they are never instants or sorceries to be targeted in the graveyard.

Quote from WizardMN »

Kess can cast Instants in the Graveyard since you, basically, look at them as Instants or Sorceries and then see if anything lets you cast them. Normally, this is the normal rules, but Kess allows this as well.

Toshiro is different since Toshiro targets and they are never instants or sorceries to be targeted in the graveyard.

the Toshi punish. I guess carry on.

So I'm liking the idea, but the payoff cards are the holdup for me here.

It may be possible to loop cards with a combo, but what cards are worth looping when buyback cards seem to be better. Brazen borrower could be capsize, bonecrusher giant could be searing touch, embereth shieldbreaker could be shattering pulse, hypnotic sprite could be forbid, murderous rider could be slaughter, and so on and so on. There will need to be a dedicated commander adventure deck that supplies us with dedicated multiplayer adventure cards for a significant impact.

Ithink this would still be very fun to play. Adding creature sacrifice effects means it could be more like an aristocrats/blood artist deck, using the loops for control and building up. Kess would be great at enabling bitter ordeal kills. Unfortunately the best engine to make this sort of combo work was paradox engine, but now all casual/fun brews with that fun ship sank.

Are there any easy repeatable ways to make Kess a new permenant with the adventure cards so you can use her more than once a turn?

Quote from Macabre »

So I'm liking the idea, but the payoff cards are the holdup for me here.

It may be possible to loop cards with a combo, but what cards are worth looping when buyback cards seem to be better. Brazen borrower could be capsize, bonecrusher giant could be searing touch, embereth shieldbreaker could be shattering pulse, hypnotic sprite could be forbid, murderous rider could be slaughter, and so on and so on. There will need to be a dedicated commander adventure deck that supplies us with dedicated multiplayer adventure cards for a significant impact.

I think this would still be very fun to play. Adding creature sacrifice effects means it could be more like an aristocrats/blood artist deck, using the loops for control and building up. Kess would be great at enabling bitter ordeal kills. Unfortunately the best engine to make this sort of combo work was paradox engine, but now all casual/fun brews with that fun ship sank.

Are there any easy repeatable ways to make Kess a new permenant with the adventure cards so you can use her more than once a turn?

I think the deck composition would still certain around value spells, with Adventures being convenient looping spells in the long run. In other words, most of the deck would still be instant/sorcery to support Kess, so aristocrats approach might be a bit lacking unless you're going for a token generation Kess (which is doable as well). If I were to bring Adventure creatures back, I'd have Altars/Tower ready to sac them for mana. Brazen borrower is likely going to be the key trigger for Equilibrium due to flash.

So the loop might go: Adventure (Hand) -> Adventure (Grave) -> Adventure Creature (Exile) -> Bounce/Sac -> Repeat.

I think this approach would have more usage in 1v1 than against multiple opponents. Less disruption, more board presence (but not combat centric), and only one opponent to target removals on.