I would like to discuss the viability of Adventure creatures in Commander.
I know that my glasses are tinted in hype colours, but I still think these pushed Adventure creatures are really strong and "good stuff" material. The inherent card advantage of drawing a useful creature on top of a removal spell looks really powerful.
Do you think they will become instant staples? Or do you think, that ETB-creatures with even easier to abuse effects will outshine these creatures in the fight for a slot?
While the mechanic is really strong the cards themselves are pretty bad. Most adventure spells are narrow and the creature is a vanilla one. I think the only playable ones are murderous knight and foulmire knight.
Honestly they are all ***** except 2 maybe 3.
There is no real benefit for playing an adventure and not enough cards to make a dedicated deck (and not even a dedicated commander) Lucky Clover is a good enabler but sadly it has almost nothing to enable
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I see them more being used as module spells. I plan on running a few in my Will and Rowan deck for flavor and that it helps with the balance of spells (theme of the deck) and creature by having both and I think thats what they will end up being.
Chulane, Teller of Tales works well for a commander for them but as ilovesaprolings said so far there isn't really enough of them or a good enough benefits for playing them to make a commander deck, IMO it really hurts the enablers that they don't also trigger off the adventure side being cast. I think a number could find homes in decks but not as an adventure deck.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I just don't see any of them seeing play in commander really. They are better than I expected them to be for standard and general 1 on 1 play, but the bodies are just too inconsequential to justify the cost. Murderous Rider is better than Hero's Downfall generally, but how often is a 2/3 for 3 actually going to be relevant in a multiplayer commander game.
I like the idea and the look, but they seem like they are basically weaker ETB creatures where you have to pay for the spell effect, then pay for the creature. Also the creature half is not as abusable with blink and the like as to use it again you need to return it to your hand then recast the adventure side all over again. And you can't really flashback the spell half even if you wanted to. Maybe if they had some more build arounds to support the mechanic it might be a thing but it doesn't look like it will be good in commander.
I was hoping to do adventure with Kess and Haakon, but apparently the rule prevents both from casting Adventurers from GY. Though, cards like Yawgmoth's Will and Yawgmoth's Agenda would allow you to cast them without problem.
I was hoping to do adventure with Kess and Haakon, but apparently the rule prevents both from casting Adventurers from GY. Though, cards like Yawgmoth's Will and Yawgmoth's Agenda would allow you to cast them without problem.
Eh, another nail in the coffin
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I was hoping to do adventure with Kess and Haakon, but apparently the rule prevents both from casting Adventurers from GY. Though, cards like Yawgmoth's Will and Yawgmoth's Agenda would allow you to cast them without problem.
Eh, another nail in the coffin
BUT.
If you manage to bounce those creatures back to your hand, you may cast it again via Adventure. One deck I'm trying to form is Oona Adventure, where you abuse effects like Cloudstone Curio and Oona's token generation (alongside flash faeries) to keep returning Adventurers back to hand for further abuse. I suppose I should make a Brew thread about it.
But it's not the ultimate argument against Adventure creatures, since they can be abused, too.
Think of bounce like Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal. You can also return it to your hand with stuff like Phyrexian Reclamation or Temur Sabertooth. You can abuse Rebound like Narset Transcendent to maximize value, you can use Young Pyromancer and other variants to get value out of the extra noncreature spell cast.
There are many synergies to explore with adventure. If you are 100% focused on abusing ETB creatures, then Adventure creatures are not viable. But I think that some of them, especially the instant removal ones, are very playable in many shells.
I think bouncing them back is too weak. Like, compare Big game hunter and giant killer. If you just play to bounce, big game hunter costs 1 less AND have madness AND none (outside some madness deck and not even many of those) plays big game hunter...
A more powerfull play would be to just use them straight, e.g. off something with murderous rider and then when you have mana for it, you can play the creature too.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
Shepherd of the Flock is a one mana Narrow Escape. So any decks running Narrow Escape will run this. Dodge removal or reuse ETB effects.
But nobody should really be running narrow escape.
Saving Grasp maybe. If you're not in blue but want the bounce then Whitemane Lion or Stonecloaker are some of the other contenders so at that point I could see playing him. Also aside from color he's strictly better than Rescue if you want to return a noncreature permanent.
Foulmire Knight makes no sense to me because you're not gaining any cards there. I don't think that much mana even at instant speed makes a 1/1 deathtoucher for no card loss worthwhile.
I would say the best adventure creatures are good for their adventures and not their bodies. Murderous Rider is probably the only one I could see playing in commander. But despite being a zombie and a knight he doesn't stick around in your graveyard for you to make any use of that.
It's also ridiculously disappointing there were no commanders with the adventure mechanic in a brawl-oriented set. Makes no sense to me.
The difficulty in abusing them usually means they aren't worth abusing. But they can still be ok just plan value creatures/spells. As mentioned, murderous rider is better than heroes downfall in most cases, so it's at least decent. Giant killer also looks ok as his body is relevant as well as the spell. brazen borrower is probably not worth it...except in sygg, river cutthroat where a 3-power hard-to-block 3-drop with upside is generally going to at least be in contention.
bonecrusher giant probably doesn't make the cut anywhere since its spell is too weak, and its body isn't that exciting in commander. maybe giant tribal or something.
There's also...
Smitten Swordmaster might be worth it as a big drain spell for knights tribal, even if the body isn't exciting.
embereth shieldbreaker is a decent artifact removal spell, though personally i'd much rather have instant speed than a goblin piker for later.
beanstalk giant is pretty good on both halves. The ramp spell isn't overpriced for the effect (strictly better untamed wilds!), and the upside of a large creature later is pretty good. Nothing that will be super competitive but for new players it kind of does it all, if not in a particularly exciting way.
It's also ridiculously disappointing there were no commanders with the adventure mechanic in a brawl-oriented set. Makes no sense to me.
Chulane was meant to be the adventure commander. The problem is that he is good with everything and everything is better than adventures
(kinda the same for Korvold and food)
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Chulane was meant to be the adventure commander. The problem is that he is good with everything and everything is better than adventures
(kinda the same for Korvold and food)
Yeah, but I specifically mean a commander with the adventure ability on the card.
Although come to think of it, you could just put them back into your command zone rather than exiling them as part of the adventure. So they'd just be a sorcery/instant in the command zone at that point. I still think it would play out interestingly, and there would still be drawbacks as long as the creature half is also worthwhile.
So, some post I read online claimed that effect like Kess, Dissident Mage could let you cast Adventure spells from graveyard. I'm getting a lot of answers from both sides, though I don't mind Kess being an Adventure commander.
So far, I uses ninjas and faeries to support adventure creatures.
Do you think they will become instant staples? Or do you think, that ETB-creatures with even easier to abuse effects will outshine these creatures in the fight for a slot?
There is no real benefit for playing an adventure and not enough cards to make a dedicated deck (and not even a dedicated commander)
Lucky Clover is a good enabler but sadly it has almost nothing to enable
Chulane, Teller of Tales works well for a commander for them but as ilovesaprolings said so far there isn't really enough of them or a good enough benefits for playing them to make a commander deck, IMO it really hurts the enablers that they don't also trigger off the adventure side being cast. I think a number could find homes in decks but not as an adventure deck.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I guess they serve a similar purpose to cards like Nekrataal and Wood Elves in that they serve as removal, ramp or a counter with a cheap body.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Eh, another nail in the coffin
BUT.
If you manage to bounce those creatures back to your hand, you may cast it again via Adventure. One deck I'm trying to form is Oona Adventure, where you abuse effects like Cloudstone Curio and Oona's token generation (alongside flash faeries) to keep returning Adventurers back to hand for further abuse. I suppose I should make a Brew thread about it.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
But it's not the ultimate argument against Adventure creatures, since they can be abused, too.
Think of bounce like Crystal Shard or Erratic Portal. You can also return it to your hand with stuff like Phyrexian Reclamation or Temur Sabertooth. You can abuse Rebound like Narset Transcendent to maximize value, you can use Young Pyromancer and other variants to get value out of the extra noncreature spell cast.
There are many synergies to explore with adventure. If you are 100% focused on abusing ETB creatures, then Adventure creatures are not viable. But I think that some of them, especially the instant removal ones, are very playable in many shells.
Edit: Also, Giant Killer can be a good target for Ranger of Eos and Ranger-Captain of Eos
I say a few are good but most aren’t
A more powerfull play would be to just use them straight, e.g. off something with murderous rider and then when you have mana for it, you can play the creature too.
Saving Grasp maybe. If you're not in blue but want the bounce then Whitemane Lion or Stonecloaker are some of the other contenders so at that point I could see playing him. Also aside from color he's strictly better than Rescue if you want to return a noncreature permanent.
Foulmire Knight makes no sense to me because you're not gaining any cards there. I don't think that much mana even at instant speed makes a 1/1 deathtoucher for no card loss worthwhile.
I would say the best adventure creatures are good for their adventures and not their bodies. Murderous Rider is probably the only one I could see playing in commander. But despite being a zombie and a knight he doesn't stick around in your graveyard for you to make any use of that.
It's also ridiculously disappointing there were no commanders with the adventure mechanic in a brawl-oriented set. Makes no sense to me.
- Rabid Wombat
bonecrusher giant probably doesn't make the cut anywhere since its spell is too weak, and its body isn't that exciting in commander. maybe giant tribal or something.
There's also...
Smitten Swordmaster might be worth it as a big drain spell for knights tribal, even if the body isn't exciting.
realm-cloaked giant is DEFINITELY going into that giant tribal deck.
embereth shieldbreaker is a decent artifact removal spell, though personally i'd much rather have instant speed than a goblin piker for later.
beanstalk giant is pretty good on both halves. The ramp spell isn't overpriced for the effect (strictly better untamed wilds!), and the upside of a large creature later is pretty good. Nothing that will be super competitive but for new players it kind of does it all, if not in a particularly exciting way.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Chulane was meant to be the adventure commander. The problem is that he is good with everything and everything is better than adventures
(kinda the same for Korvold and food)
Although come to think of it, you could just put them back into your command zone rather than exiling them as part of the adventure. So they'd just be a sorcery/instant in the command zone at that point. I still think it would play out interestingly, and there would still be drawbacks as long as the creature half is also worthwhile.
- Rabid Wombat
So far, I uses ninjas and faeries to support adventure creatures.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs