Quote from Macabre » seem to keep missing specific points and cherry-picking what to reply to. If you're to the point of bringing up ancestral in this argument then I'm thinking this is just a waste if time.
Quote from Macabre »If you want to ban vampiric tutor, then go ahead and ban mystical tutor and enlightened tutor, but you still need to ban crop rotation and green suns zenith. If you want to ban demonic tutor that's fine, but you would need to ban all the 2cmc farseeks and sylvan scrying. If you want to ban cruel tutor and fabricate then it's only fair to ban cultivate. If you really think diabolic tutor is ban-worthy then you need to ban explosive vegetation.
Quote from NZB2323 »
In my Edgar Markov deck I tutor for Necropotence, so I still have variance for cards that I draw.
Quote from Drain Life »Instead, as somebody who has played this game at a high level in my 20's and now only plays casually in my mid 30's, I find myself questioning game balance, game theory, card design, deck construction and so forth...
Quote from frozenfeenx »
"There's three ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the R way!"
"Isn't that the wrong way?"
"Yeah, but faster!"
Quote from Drain Life »I am going to assume that you have never played Vintage. Every tutor is a copy of your best cards.
I have played in tournaments in 2008 where I have cast:
Dark ritual - Dark Ritual - Dark ritual - demonic tutor for YawgWill - Cast YawgWill - do it again from the graveyard to then find and cast Tendrills of Agony as the 10th spell and win.
Demonic Tutor for Lotus or Time Vaul or Flash or Gifts Ungiven - which ends up being a Demonic Tutor for 6 cards because one pile is to get YawgWill + Recoup + Lotus + Dark Ritual. No matter what they give you, you win.
I played and won a mox ruby in a 30 man event with mono black null rod agro. Leyline of the void, duress, Hymn to tourach, hypnotic spector, phyrexian negator, dark confidant, wasteland, stripmine, sink hole, amd a suite of Demonic Tutor, Vampiric, Imperial Seal, YawgWill, one tendrils, 4 rituals, Mox Jet and a pile of swamps. The main plan was to play resource denial and finish hard. Open the game with leyline, Turn 1 ritual into duress and Demonic tutor for null rod, then win through attrition.
The lists and examples go on and on.
That colorless and a black makes a difference when you can fetch an underground sea, cast a mana crypt or off color mox (red/green/white) and tutor up a combo card or force of will or whatever is strong.
But in Commander? Ome reason why I am "burnt out" on the format is how leniar my decks become with tutors.
Personal tutor for merchant scroll, maybe cast a can trip to draw it; merchant scroll for Intuition; Intuition into a game winning pile, of which there are many.
I was thinking to myself: How good or useless is any given commander if it is not trying to combo?
I love Breya and how we got an esper commander with red which can use Goblin Welder, Deretti, Scrap Mastry, Shaali and all of those fun cards. I live the idea of looting and rummaging through my deck on the cheap and then reanimating artifacts. However, I must explain each time I play with new people that it is a red esper artifact goodstuff deck and not a fast 4 color combo with cheap tutors.
If I play Mizzix, only combo is viable. I do not buy into the Earthquake game plan and relying on X spells and Mizzix surviving. Without tutors, it is trash. With it, it is versitile and strong. Not cEDH strong, but it can defend itself and has many play lines to end games with different synergystic combos... but strugles without a boat load of obvious tutors.
The list goes on and on as well. I found many decks I love leaned on tutors to carry tye deck to victory in games it would have otherwise had no business winning if tutors were cut from the deck. That is why I began to question if the concepts were even good, or if I was just leaning on a powerful game mechanic - tutors - in a game and format designed around variance and the mistery of the draw.