MTG Salvation

Hello my friends, I hope everyone is doing well! I am trying to put together a mostly demon commander deck. My fiance has this cheap Soldier synergy deck and her brother does a lot of control. My goal is to end their lovely lives.

They usually play Fast decks so should I try and do a low cost deck, focus on drawing as many cards as possible, what do you think? I was thinking Kaalia of the Vast as a commander but I'm open to your ideas. I don't have many demons as of right now and I only have $75 to throw a deck together so if possible please keep that in mind.

Thank you guys so much for your help, I'm new to Magic in general so I'm still trying to learn!

Best,

Ell

The prcon of Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath was themed after demons, you might find some initial ideas there:

https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/card-set-archive/commander-2014/sworn-to-darkness

Demons don't have much synergy with each other (there aren't a lot of goblin warchief-type cards for demons), so there isn't much reason to build a deck around them. If you want to play kaalia, your deck will be a lot better if you're playing the best angels and dragons with your demons, rather than go deep on demons. They're also mostly pretty mana-heavy, so a low curve is going to be hard/impossible with demons. Things to consider.

Quote from DirkGently »

Demons don't have much synergy with each other (there aren't a lot of goblin warchief-type cards for demons), so there isn't much reason to build a deck around them. If you want to play kaalia, your deck will be a lot better if you're playing the best angels and dragons with your demons, rather than go deep on demons. They're also mostly pretty mana-heavy, so a low curve is going to be hard/impossible with demons. Things to consider.

This is true, but I understand the draw to actually make a demon deck. There's plenty of reason to build a deck around them - they're cool. Some people are less mechanically inclined than others, you know.

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I'd suggest you make a monoblack goodstuff control deck supported by cheap rattlesnakes. You note that your opponents are fast - try to direct them towards each other with stuff like Ophiomancer and No Mercy as rattlesnakes in front of yourself while building power. Use mass removal, too. Stuff like Damnation is very expensive but there are a few cheaper options that should be usable. Put the good demons into your deck but don't play them until your opponents have become strong enough for it to be necessary. Oh and add siphoning lifegain such as Grey Merchant of Asphodel and Exsanguinate to stabilize if you lose life to opponents and/or demon abilities.

I think what needs clarification is whether:

1) you think demons are sweet and want to build a demon deck, even if it's not as effective as another deck would be, or

2) if you mostly just want to "end their lovely lives" and think demons seem like the best way to do that, but you'd consider an alternative that would be more effective.

Quote from DirkGently »

I think what needs clarification is whether:

1) you think demons are sweet and want to build a demon deck, even if it's not as effective as another deck would be, or

2) if you mostly just want to "end their lovely lives" and think demons seem like the best way to do that, but you'd consider an alternative that would be more effective.

Yup. These two goals are a bit opposed to each other. Demons are not the best way to deal with cheap, fast soldiers or with control strategies. Demons generally cost more mana and aren't great against aggro or control. If you use Kaalia to cheat them, all your opponents have to do is counter/kill/steal/pacify Kaalia, and your glass cannon is shattered.

Not that you shouldn't make Demons if that's what you like. Just realize that lots of other things would do better than Demons against the decks you listed - Vampires, for one.

Rakdos, Lord of Riots On paper, it looks fragile. In practice, it's amazing how many time he connects and you get to poop your hand out onto the board. Just pick the best demons. You even have support like Blood Speaker. Sin Prodder and Plague Spitter are not demons, but they enable Rakdos and come down a turn before he does. Redraw with Knollspine Dragon! Drop free Eldrazi and Wurmcoil Engine! Sire of Insanity wins game by his lonesome.

Generally speaking, demons are center around life loss and sacrifice effect prone in black aligned cards, some of them are powerful beaters with drawbacks. As long as your commander could support/compensate these two mechanics you should be fine.

maybe a Shadowborn Apostle deck? could get pricey though they are about $3.50 a piece

Quote from Neptune »

Rakdos, Lord of Riots On paper, it looks fragile. In practice, it's amazing how many time he connects and you get to poop your hand out onto the board. Just pick the best demons. You even have support like Blood Speaker. Sin Prodder and Plague Spitter are not demons, but they enable Rakdos and come down a turn before he does. Redraw with Knollspine Dragon! Drop free Eldrazi and Wurmcoil Engine! Sire of Insanity wins game by his lonesome.

that is a good way to go. If you really wanna be mean, there's someone with a rakdos stax list that aims to grind the table out.

I myself have a rakdos the defiler red-black suicide aggro build. It's sort of half combo (combo as in strong synergy), half aggro, and splash of reanimator. The thing is, I thought it was a cheap deck, but it turns out that many of the cards i have are quite expensive. The general gist of the deck is to use combine:
- looting effects (faithless looting, cathartic reunion et al)
- reanimation effects (reanimate, shallow grave)
- mana (dark ritual, treasonous ogre)
- card draw (cruel bargain, pain's reward)
- beaters (malfegor, archfiend of despair, demonlord belzenlok)
- something to end the game (repay in kind, sire of insanity, lich, doomsday, havoc festival)

It's actually a really fun deck to play 'cuz it's really hard to pilot well, and you're really likely to get hate from the table ('cuz your deck looks so scary!).

Another vote for Rakdos, Lord of Riots!

Make those big demons cheap

I dug out my deck to update my list. I can still see a lot of cards that need to go or get upgraded. Here it is, anyway: a work in progress.

You're not going to get fast demons outside of Kaalia, and she has a bit of a... reputation as being too strong not to kill. If you play with groups outside of your fiance and her brother then I'd avoid her. If you only play with those two then the onus is on you to make sure your deck remains fair since I'm assuming theirs are not particularly competitive.

I would say your best bet is to run someone else alongside a fair assortment of kill spells to stay in the game until you can start laying some demons down later on.


I've had positive experiences with both Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath and Kagemaro, First to Suffer, both as control-heavy black decks.

Ob Nixilis appreciates good removal and good blockers (Wall of Souls, Vampire Nighthawk, Will-o'-the-Wisp, Mischievous Poltergeist), and in return gives you good life management to stay in the game and comes with his own demon buddy/buddies for additional blocking.

Kagemaro appreciates being run with relatively few creatures, more card advantage spells (Night's Whispers, Read the Bones, Promise of Power), and ways to easily get her back from the graveyard (Animate Dead, Undying Evil, Disentomb, Reaping the Graves, Death Denied). She can be a bit unfun to play against for certain decks though.

Of course, as a monoblack deck you'll want to run things like Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone, Unstable Obelisk, and possibly Scour from Existence just to deal with critical artifacts and enchantments (better options than these also exist, but get into higher price ranges).

One of the best strategies for midrange, I've found, is to run sweepers for creatures smaller than what you're running. Demon of Dark Schemes, Yahenni's Expertise, Night Incarnate, and Toxic Deluge (that last one is fairly pricey, but very worthwhile) can kill your opponent's things while leaving your own mostly untouched. I've found the sweetspot is usually -3/-3 or 3 damage, as that kills most utility commanders and creatures while most demons have more than 3 toughness.

Liliana's Contract is probably the best 'demon tribal' card out there, largely for lack of competition. Remember that a demon token counts as a demon named "Demon". Blood Speaker and Bloodthirsty Ogre are the next best.

Some good demons that aren't too pricey...
Abhorrent Overlord
Archfiend of Depravity
Bloodgift Demon
Demon of Wailing Agonies
Desecration Demon (not actually that good, but can be fun)
Doom Whisperer (~$5)
Harvester of Souls
Kagemaro, First to Suffer (if not your commander)
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen (~$10)
Overseer of the Damned (~$4)
Pestilence Demon
Reaper from the Abyss
Seizan, Perverter of Truth?? (iffy, but fun; ~$5)
Sower of Discord
Spawn of Mayhem
Tombstalker
Vilis, Broker of Blood
Westvale Abbey (~$5)
Rune-Scarred Demon (~$5)

There are lots of demons out there that like eating (or otherwise sacrificing) creatures smaller than them, such as Demonlord of Ashmouth, Demon of Catastrophes, or Demon of Death's Gate, although they don't play well in a deck that's heavy with other big demons which you don't generally want to sacrifice. If you want to run some zombie token generators then those demons will play nicely with them, and the zombies are also a good way to hold off the early-game legions until you can start playing some big meanies.

Kaalia, Zenith Seeker is also an option for demon commander you get access to a lot more demons and colours

It looks to me the best way to use her is reanimator with a lot of red self discard and black and white reanimation cards... doesn't have to be the expensive $ ones you can get plenty of 4-5 mana reanimation cards.

Demons, huh?

This might pique your interest then.

The best thing about demons is having your very own dedicated I win card.

Quote from Narvuntien »

Kaalia, Zenith Seeker is also an option for demon commander you get access to a lot more demons and colours

It looks to me the best way to use her is reanimator with a lot of red self discard and black and white reanimation cards... doesn't have to be the expensive $ ones you can get plenty of 4-5 mana reanimation cards.

If you run Kaalia, Zenith Seeker as demon commander than you can draw 1 card of her at best? White doesn't do much for the tribal.

Rakdos, Lord of Riots can be a funny option. Shadowborn Apostle, Rakdos the Defiler, Rakdos, the Showstopper and some artifact tribal support is what you get for demon tribal.

There are some interesting changelings, too. Cairn Wanderer, Graveshifter, Taurean Mauler, Changeling Outcast, Mirror Entity, Irregular Cohort, Valiant Changeling and maybe Avian Changeling they counts as every creature type which would make Kaalia a little better.

Cards I would reconsider:

• Adaptive Automaton
  
• Icon of Ancestry
  
• Metallic Mimic
  
• Urza's Incubator
  
• Vanquisher's Banner
  
• Unclaimed Territory
  
• Herald's Horn
  
• Cavern of Souls
  

Unfortunately some of this cards are super expensive. You could pass on Cavern of Souls I guess. Herald's Horn would be really nice, though.

Does anyone get the feeling we're shouting into a void? OP has been asked direct questions and hasn't responded - or even posted - for more than a week.

I get everyone just wants to be helpful but I think odds are good that OP posted the same thing on reddit or something, got a faster response, and is never going to look at anything you've written.

Quote from bobthefunny »

Well the great part about discussions is that its about more than one person. I can into this to help out, but became curious about how other people approach the same challenge now, and check back quite often. It's quite fascinating.

Agreed. Not everyone browse this site on regular basis. I did my part, the rest is up to OP, and surely others will find this thread useful. I create brewing thread for similar reasons.

I have had a mono black Demon tribal EDH deck for the better part of 3 years now and the two demons I have found to be best suited as the Commander are:

Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
or
Demonlord Belzenlok

Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
Pros: Demon decks run lots of threats, often expensive to get out. Protect all that work by adding another layer in the form of Ob Nixilis, Unshackled to be such a road block to further removal that he soaks it up himself, or if the opponent(s) have no answers to your already scary boardstate, he protects it even further by denying tutor-responses. Think of Ob Nixilis, Unshackled as a blanket of protection for what you're already trying to do. His sac trigger also helps immensely against other black that may have sac themes, and can sometimes push him over the edge if nobody removes him fast enough while you're doing your demon-like-business of killing lots of creatures. Positive synergy is easy with this commander.

Cons: Getting this fella out too early will often hose multiple people trying to set up their early game and get you more enemies than necessary. Not a great choice as the very first Demon to put out and can get you hated out of a game if your timing is bad. A lack of an ETB also makes his power level rather flat. His 4/4 base is also within range of dying to most aggro Commanders if you had to chump block on the turn after playing him. That's especially painful to have a 4/4 body on a 6-drop if you had no ramp or other chump blockers. Even more reason to use him strategically for his anti-tutor and sac synergy, meaning there could be some games where he's unnecessary.

- - - -

Demonlord Belzenlok

Pros: Has a scaling ETB trigger that is even more powerful if combined with lots of ramp. This ETB combined with 6/6 base stats makes him relevant as your first demon on the table or as your last. Jamming the necessary ramp in the deck to make Demon tribal a serious threat is also mitigated by the extra ETB card draw and can actually speed up demons to a ridiculous level of power. My personal Demon deck ramps so hard with Demonlord Belzenlok that the threats become exponential and diverse enough - and mind you black is very good a disrupting your opponents - that I run away with the game even 3 vs 1. If the deck is tuned enough to average Demonlord Belzenlok on T4, by virtue of this deck-design you're going to be set up to steamroll the table regardless of what toys you jam into the deck. He is also a prime target for reanimating over and over and getting immediate value from the card draw.

Cons: Without mitigating the ETB life-loss, you will burn through your own life and be susceptible to being ganged up on. If you're doing Demonlord Belzenlok right you'll be getting ganged up on anyways. The fact that Demonlord Belzenlok also exiles all the lands he goes past is relevant in long grindy games, or games where you can't rely on keeping mana rocks in play to assist the flow of the deck. Exiling Cabal Coffers T4 is always painful - but it wouldn't have mattered if it were a Thran Dynamo.