I have noticed that my decks tend to be pretty controlling and grindy. A lot of stax, a lot of recursion...
I want my next build to be more proactive. But I do not want something like Bruna, Light of Alabaster or a combo deck. These are proactive, but they make everyone focus on you because of how quickly you can win out of nowhere.
I have two decks that fit this description: Maelstrom Wanderer and Mina and Denn, Wildborn. I really enjoy playing these decks. MW is built to cast MW as many times as possible. I also have an 'untap' subtheme which I enjoy, as well as top of the library manipulation. The deck is not very linear and has a lot of complex decisions. But it is proactive. If I am the archenemy, it is probably too late because I have probably gained enough value to put the game away.
M&D is a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx deck that is trying to go big on mana as explosively as possible. There are a lot of interesting decisions, has a Wild Pair package for almost all of my creatures, and is difficult to play optimally.
I am looking for my next deck in this line of deckbuilding. I want to be proactive, but not be a deck that wins out of nowhere. I am looking for it to be a 75% deck for now.
I do not want a tribal beats kind of deck. I never liked tribal and greatly disliked Ixalan limited.. it's just how I am wired. I don't see interesting decision trees (or building decisions).
So, do any of you have any suggestions on the types of decks or generals that lend themselves to this kind of play?
If not, I would also appreciate thoughts on what I have said. I really want to get away from grindy recursion engines and having answers to everything at all times...
By the way, you can see all my existing commanders (and future commanders) in my signature
I know you said no Tribal, but it is low-hanging fruit and I've found Yuriko, The Tiger's Shadow to be a fun proactive deck. It's not SUPER tribal because there are so few ninjas, so it is more about finding Arcane Adaptation, Conspiracy, and/or Xenograft to turn all your little random 1/1 dudes into ninjas so that your commander functions as a SUPER Edric. Despite more or less demanding a fair number of Flying Men and those Conspiracy effects, I found there was a lot of skill-testing decisions both in building and in playing. I run a Trinket Mage package experimentally, but Yuriko also pushes you to play unconventional answer cards and maximize your tempo and ability to have open attacks. I don't win a lot with it because it does become archenemy often, but it is a blast every time I shuffle it up.
The problem is that you'd think commanders with good attack triggers would encourage you to play a proactive list, but it rarely works that way. Tribal makes for good proactive decks because they encourage you to beat face without necessarily encouraging you to play Voltron and combo-kill people (like Narset, Enlightened Master, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest or exploit the repeated combat triggers for grindy stax advantage (i.e. Brago, King Eternal, Kaalia of the Vast, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, the way some commanders with attack triggers might. That being said, I also think you can build a proactive, interactive list for folks like Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Gahiji, Honored One.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
I know you said no Tribal, but it is low-hanging fruit and I've found Yuriko, The Tiger's Shadow to be a fun proactive deck. It's not SUPER tribal because there are so few ninjas, so it is more about finding Arcane Adaptation, Conspiracy, and/or Xenograft to turn all your little random 1/1 dudes into ninjas so that your commander functions as a SUPER Edric. Despite more or less demanding a fair number of Flying Men and those Conspiracy effects, I found there was a lot of skill-testing decisions both in building and in playing. I run a Trinket Mage package experimentally, but Yuriko also pushes you to play unconventional answer cards and maximize your tempo and ability to have open attacks. I don't win a lot with it because it does become archenemy often, but it is a blast every time I shuffle it up.
The problem is that you'd think commanders with good attack triggers would encourage you to play a proactive list, but it rarely works that way. Tribal makes for good proactive decks because they encourage you to beat face without necessarily encouraging you to play Voltron and combo-kill people (like Narset, Enlightened Master, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest or exploit the repeated combat triggers for grindy stax advantage (i.e. Brago, King Eternal, Kaalia of the Vast, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, the way some commanders with attack triggers might. That being said, I also think you can build a proactive, interactive list for folks like Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Gahiji, Honored One.
Yuriko is a good suggestion. I used to have a Vela, the Night Clad ninja deck but I took it apart since the general cost too much mana and was ineffective at impacting the board. I like that Yuriko has a lot of leeway for how to build it, too. Thanks!
Gahiji and Edric are good suggestions too... but I find Edric is always the same and everyone knows it, and I don't know what to do with Gahiji other than some kind of go-wide token build.
She's basically a fixed Narset, letting you cast some big spells for free but not 4 a turn that turn into multiple turns. Mystical Tutor into Approach of the Second Sun is a thing, but I took that out after it won the first game. You can put cards in to make it more consistent, to manipulate your topdeck, and it's kind of silly not to put Top in the deck, but I also just like spinning the wheel because even if I don't get a free Mind's Dilation or eldrazi, I still get to draw a card. You don't even need to fill the deck with a huge density of fat cmc odd spells, you can have a fairly slim esper deck that sometimes throws out a fatty for free.
She's basically a fixed Narset, letting you cast some big spells for free but not 4 a turn that turn into multiple turns. Mystical Tutor into Approach of the Second Sun is a thing, but I took that out after it won the first game. You can put cards in to make it more consistent, to manipulate your topdeck, and it's kind of silly not to put Top in the deck, but I also just like spinning the wheel because even if I don't get a free Mind's Dilation or eldrazi, I still get to draw a card. You don't even need to fill the deck with a huge density of fat cmc odd spells, you can have a fairly slim esper deck that sometimes throws out a fatty for free.
I like the card, but it seems kinda voltron-y, in that I need to protect my general and if I can swing enough times I should win the game. I also think that people will be terrified about this and do everything they can to stop it from attacking.
After all, it could be a Ponder and it could be Void Winnower that you reveal. I am not sure if this is different enough from Narset to not get the same kind of hate.
I recommend Mayael the Anima its super proactive, very fun to play and can be adjusted to fit any powerlevel (outside cEDH). It's also a great deck to give to people who are new to EDH. Spinning the wheel is just so satisfying.
Edit: Also, Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer. Super explosive, very proactive and also not overplayed, most people never played against a Brudiclad deck before. FOr a deck that wins through the attack step, it plays a lot of unusual cards. By far the funnest decks I have build in the last year.
It's a little silly, but it's pretty proactive, allowing you to either mill them to death or attack them to death.
The other 2 proactive decks i have that are not combo-heavy are:
- rakdos the defiler. Think red/black aggro and suicide, paying tonnes of life for tempo.
- zedruu the greathearted. Think lots of 1-2 cmc auras that boost power, protects zedruu, and then get zedruu to donate them to your opponents, giving you life, cards, and beats. its one of the few decks i have where its possible to forbid-softlock the table (it's really hard to get there though). The biggest strength of zedruu is that you get to play oft-ignored cards like blue scarab and bravado, and being able to donate them really changes how you assess the board.
I recommend Mayael the Anima its super proactive, very fun to play and can be adjusted to fit any powerlevel (outside cEDH). It's also a great deck to give to people who are new to EDH. Spinning the wheel is just so satisfying.
Edit: Also, Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer. Super explosive, very proactive and also not overplayed, most people never played against a Brudiclad deck before. FOr a deck that wins through the attack step, it plays a lot of unusual cards. By far the funnest decks I have build in the last year.
I just never like Mayael. I always see Mayael die before being activated and people getting stuck with expensive cards in hand.
Brudiclad is a great suggestion though! There are a lot of interesting ways to build it. Thanks!
I mean it is technically tribal but it doesn't play like a tribal deck but... Zirilan of the Claw is my proactive commander of choice. I does perhaps win a bit out of nowhere sometimes though supprise! here is Dragon Tyrant GG
She's basically a fixed Narset, letting you cast some big spells for free but not 4 a turn that turn into multiple turns. Mystical Tutor into Approach of the Second Sun is a thing, but I took that out after it won the first game. You can put cards in to make it more consistent, to manipulate your topdeck, and it's kind of silly not to put Top in the deck, but I also just like spinning the wheel because even if I don't get a free Mind's Dilation or eldrazi, I still get to draw a card. You don't even need to fill the deck with a huge density of fat cmc odd spells, you can have a fairly slim esper deck that sometimes throws out a fatty for free.
I like the card, but it seems kinda voltron-y, in that I need to protect my general and if I can swing enough times I should win the game. I also think that people will be terrified about this and do everything they can to stop it from attacking.
After all, it could be a Ponder and it could be Void Winnower that you reveal. I am not sure if this is different enough from Narset to not get the same kind of hate.
Yennet is not a voltron deck, and is really fun to play, proactive and reuires a lot of thinking (link in my sig for a decklist)
Another great proactive deck is the Markov low mana curve agro deck (link also in my sig)
Like yourself I wanted a deck that is focused on getting into the rumble zone and naturally is rewarded if there is a board wipe. Maelstrom Wanderer is there as a decent way to give me a board presence should I loose my creatures.
Other proactive decks I have are Tymaret, the Murder King. Deck focuses on cheap creatures for early damage and then ways to steal opponents creatures and do ghastly things after attacking. All star in the deck is Flayer of the Hatebound and Gravecrawler.
Other deck is my Shanna, Sisay's Legacy which looks to swing in with her while building up a board presence. Last time I played with her I was one turn away from giving my creatures +54+54 (thanks to Overwhelming Stampede with Shanna a 26/26 and having Cultivator of Blades out).
Needless to say the attack had I got to do it would have been wonderful!
So for proactive decks I think picking a commander that can do things early is key or building the deck to do that instead.
Look for ways to getting around mass board wipes and punish players you are being slow.
Karador, Ghost Chieftain tokens would be my recently-built suggestion. With relatively minor grave recursion besides Karador himself, most of the deck is dedicated to creatures that bring more creatures with them, and milking those for benefit(life/cards/Blood Artist effects) until critical mass of creatures + anthems is achieved. The deck ends up being nicely resilient to both wraths and grave hate (basically the opponents need both to halt my progress for long), as unlike most Karador decks I am not overly reliant on my graveyard, but unlike a lot of token decks I have recursion in my command zone...
Or in other words, Karador is my backup, not the main game plan.
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
I saw someone mentioning spinning the wheel with Mayael? Why not spin the wheel with Nekusar?
I like Nekusar as a commander and deck. You can still be that main threat, but wins do not come that easy as some may think. You take quite a lot of focus from the game, but it takes some time to get going. The only "inf" combo I have is Curiosity with old Niv, but its mostly there to make Nekusar into a "fair" Consecrated Sphinx. I don't run Howling Mine effects except for Nekusar. If they're gonna get cards it usually from a Wheel. Sure, it CAN win out of nowhere, but its still a maybe most of the times. Otherwise it takes some pieces to get going.
Still, It has potential to win quickly, gets a lot of attention, but I mostly chill and pick my spots when to play Nekusar and when I can go for the kill. Dealing with the board with some removal and counters is always nice. I like to wheel if someone tutors. Its even better when they actually ahve to reveal the card, then I can make an assesment for if its ok or not.
Btw Xantcha is a really fun card to include. It does a lot of work.
I want my next build to be more proactive. But I do not want something like Bruna, Light of Alabaster or a combo deck. These are proactive, but they make everyone focus on you because of how quickly you can win out of nowhere.
I have two decks that fit this description: Maelstrom Wanderer and Mina and Denn, Wildborn. I really enjoy playing these decks. MW is built to cast MW as many times as possible. I also have an 'untap' subtheme which I enjoy, as well as top of the library manipulation. The deck is not very linear and has a lot of complex decisions. But it is proactive. If I am the archenemy, it is probably too late because I have probably gained enough value to put the game away.
M&D is a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx deck that is trying to go big on mana as explosively as possible. There are a lot of interesting decisions, has a Wild Pair package for almost all of my creatures, and is difficult to play optimally.
I am looking for my next deck in this line of deckbuilding. I want to be proactive, but not be a deck that wins out of nowhere. I am looking for it to be a 75% deck for now.
I do not want a tribal beats kind of deck. I never liked tribal and greatly disliked Ixalan limited.. it's just how I am wired. I don't see interesting decision trees (or building decisions).
So, do any of you have any suggestions on the types of decks or generals that lend themselves to this kind of play?
If not, I would also appreciate thoughts on what I have said. I really want to get away from grindy recursion engines and having answers to everything at all times...
By the way, you can see all my existing commanders (and future commanders) in my signature
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
The problem is that you'd think commanders with good attack triggers would encourage you to play a proactive list, but it rarely works that way. Tribal makes for good proactive decks because they encourage you to beat face without necessarily encouraging you to play Voltron and combo-kill people (like Narset, Enlightened Master, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest or exploit the repeated combat triggers for grindy stax advantage (i.e. Brago, King Eternal, Kaalia of the Vast, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, the way some commanders with attack triggers might. That being said, I also think you can build a proactive, interactive list for folks like Edric, Spymaster of Trest and Gahiji, Honored One.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Yuriko is a good suggestion. I used to have a Vela, the Night Clad ninja deck but I took it apart since the general cost too much mana and was ineffective at impacting the board. I like that Yuriko has a lot of leeway for how to build it, too. Thanks!
Gahiji and Edric are good suggestions too... but I find Edric is always the same and everyone knows it, and I don't know what to do with Gahiji other than some kind of go-wide token build.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
She's basically a fixed Narset, letting you cast some big spells for free but not 4 a turn that turn into multiple turns. Mystical Tutor into Approach of the Second Sun is a thing, but I took that out after it won the first game. You can put cards in to make it more consistent, to manipulate your topdeck, and it's kind of silly not to put Top in the deck, but I also just like spinning the wheel because even if I don't get a free Mind's Dilation or eldrazi, I still get to draw a card. You don't even need to fill the deck with a huge density of fat cmc odd spells, you can have a fairly slim esper deck that sometimes throws out a fatty for free.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
I like the card, but it seems kinda voltron-y, in that I need to protect my general and if I can swing enough times I should win the game. I also think that people will be terrified about this and do everything they can to stop it from attacking.
After all, it could be a Ponder and it could be Void Winnower that you reveal. I am not sure if this is different enough from Narset to not get the same kind of hate.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Edit: Also, Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer. Super explosive, very proactive and also not overplayed, most people never played against a Brudiclad deck before. FOr a deck that wins through the attack step, it plays a lot of unusual cards. By far the funnest decks I have build in the last year.
UR Mizzix of the Izmagnus ~~~ Build your own win-condition: Finite Spellslinging
UR Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer ~~~ We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic ~~~ A Guide to dying slowly
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose ~~~ Marchesa's undying Marionettes
RGW Mayael the Anima ~~~ All Hail the Big Chungus
GWU Chulane, Teller of Tales ~~~ Permanents Only ETB Shenanigans
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ~~~ Sidisi's Restless Servants
WUBRG The Ur-Dragon ~~~ Dragons eat your face
My current build aims to throw a bunch of petitioners into play, then using things like bloodbond march, parallel lives, thrumming stone to churn a lot into play, beastmaster ascension, overrun, and stuff like that to cream your opponents.
It's a little silly, but it's pretty proactive, allowing you to either mill them to death or attack them to death.
The other 2 proactive decks i have that are not combo-heavy are:
- rakdos the defiler. Think red/black aggro and suicide, paying tonnes of life for tempo.
- zedruu the greathearted. Think lots of 1-2 cmc auras that boost power, protects zedruu, and then get zedruu to donate them to your opponents, giving you life, cards, and beats. its one of the few decks i have where its possible to forbid-softlock the table (it's really hard to get there though). The biggest strength of zedruu is that you get to play oft-ignored cards like blue scarab and bravado, and being able to donate them really changes how you assess the board.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
I just never like Mayael. I always see Mayael die before being activated and people getting stuck with expensive cards in hand.
Brudiclad is a great suggestion though! There are a lot of interesting ways to build it. Thanks!
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I’ll leave the explanation to our residential Hippo expert.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Yennet is not a voltron deck, and is really fun to play, proactive and reuires a lot of thinking (link in my sig for a decklist)
Another great proactive deck is the Markov low mana curve agro deck (link also in my sig)
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
Like yourself I wanted a deck that is focused on getting into the rumble zone and naturally is rewarded if there is a board wipe. Maelstrom Wanderer is there as a decent way to give me a board presence should I loose my creatures.
Other proactive decks I have are Tymaret, the Murder King. Deck focuses on cheap creatures for early damage and then ways to steal opponents creatures and do ghastly things after attacking. All star in the deck is Flayer of the Hatebound and Gravecrawler.
Other deck is my Shanna, Sisay's Legacy which looks to swing in with her while building up a board presence. Last time I played with her I was one turn away from giving my creatures +54+54 (thanks to Overwhelming Stampede with Shanna a 26/26 and having Cultivator of Blades out).
Needless to say the attack had I got to do it would have been wonderful!
So for proactive decks I think picking a commander that can do things early is key or building the deck to do that instead.
Look for ways to getting around mass board wipes and punish players you are being slow.
For example a captain lannery storm voltron style deck could be good fun or Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin which includes pumpspells to help spew out Goblins.
Or in other words, Karador is my backup, not the main game plan.
I like Nekusar as a commander and deck. You can still be that main threat, but wins do not come that easy as some may think. You take quite a lot of focus from the game, but it takes some time to get going. The only "inf" combo I have is Curiosity with old Niv, but its mostly there to make Nekusar into a "fair" Consecrated Sphinx. I don't run Howling Mine effects except for Nekusar. If they're gonna get cards it usually from a Wheel. Sure, it CAN win out of nowhere, but its still a maybe most of the times. Otherwise it takes some pieces to get going.
Still, It has potential to win quickly, gets a lot of attention, but I mostly chill and pick my spots when to play Nekusar and when I can go for the kill. Dealing with the board with some removal and counters is always nice. I like to wheel if someone tutors. Its even better when they actually ahve to reveal the card, then I can make an assesment for if its ok or not.
Btw Xantcha is a really fun card to include. It does a lot of work.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer