Want to get Despark in my Ayli deck. The deck has tons of ways to deal with all kinds of permanents.... I just like Despark's mana cost and exile effect.
It's always a bit dependent on play patterns and meta. Primarily - how important answering early threats is, how many combos need to be interacted with at instant-speed and which specific pieces need to be answered, how much mana is reasonable to leave up, how much exile matters, etc.
Anguished Unmaking > Utter end, unmake, and morify, almost always. More flexibility at the cost, and the life loss is pretty irrelevant.
Personally I would consider vindicate to be the worst of all of them. Sorcery speed absolutely kills it imo. Instant-speed is way more effective against combo and lets you wait as long as possible for someone else to answer it, and to make sure it's really YOUR problem and not someone else's. On the other hand, it does hit lands. So some metas might want that enough to justify the other downsides. I guess it's still probably better than unmake, for the flexibility.
Despark is a little tougher since it really will depend on meta - many of the best combos totally circumvent it. But it is only 2 mana. So if you want to minimize mana kept up and aren't worried about food chain combos and like, it could be great. Maybe the best in a more casual environment since it lets you develop the most while keeping it up, and probably most stuff that really matters will cost more than 3.
But in vacuum...
I'd say anguished unmaking > despark > utter end > mortify > vindicate > unmake.
EDIT: also worth pointing out that I'd consider many mono-w and mono-b answers better than many of these, especially STP and PTE. I'm also a big proponent of oblation.
Tough choice. I'm a big fan of instant speed removal that's flexible, so both Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are certainly top picks. Despark vs. Vindicate is a close one. One is more limited yet timely flexible and exiles, the other one may only destroy at sorcery speed but can hit lands as the only one of the bunch. Due to a very gy heavy meta i'd give it to Despark in the end.
Tbh, i always found Unmake to be very unconvincing. Only hits one card type, isn't necessarily mana light and can be akward 3C and up. The fact that it exiles at instant speed doesn't really make up for its downsides. There are several W and B cards i'd pick over it.
Yeah, pretty much this. You get Swords/Path that absolutely annihilate Unmake. I run those two, along with the first two of this list, in my Orzhov shell. I'm also eyeing Despark, but recall games where I'd need to pop a Ashnod's Altar, Goblin Bombardment or something.
I really don't care for Utter End, personally. 4 is more than I want to hold up on someone else's turn. I would rather find a way to turn Necromancy into a Vindicate, or something along those lines with the upside that if I don't need the removal, it can do something else.
Once the shell opens up to a third color, I'd personally rather run Chaos Warp or Beast Within over Utter End. I guess I could see myself running it in an esper shell. But in straight WB, I can only see myself playing creature-based decks and think there would be other ways to reach that effect in a more efficient/flexible way.
That said, I feel like I still like it better than Despark when I remember that equipment, combo pieces, and sac outlets all dodge it. Given that I'm going to be running Swords to Plowshares and Anguished Unmaking regardless, I think I'm more willing to run Disenchant variant / Seal of Cleansing than spot removal that costs 4, but it does really come down to what else the deck has going on.
I feel like an Ayli deck doesn’t need spot removal and can use creatures with ETB or death triggers as spot removal.
So you would play Angel of Despair over Vindicate? Obviously, there are things in my deck like Fiend Hunter and Shriekmaw and Ashen Rider.... but I feel like having cheaper options is important.
So you would play Angel of Despair over Vindicate? Obviously, there are things in my deck like Fiend Hunter and Shriekmaw and Ashen Rider.... but I feel like having cheaper options is important.
You typically won't be casting the angel as opposed to reanimating it for cheap or flickering it for also cheap. The body is just a means to an ends, but the deck needs to be built that way.
So you would play Angel of Despair over Vindicate? Obviously, there are things in my deck like Fiend Hunter and Shriekmaw and Ashen Rider.... but I feel like having cheaper options is important.
You typically won't be casting the angel as opposed to reanimating it for cheap or flickering it for also cheap. The body is just a means to an ends, but the deck needs to be built that way.
Though I'd still want a few standalone instants.
My deck doesn't do a lot of reanimating. A bit, sure.... but I am not even sure I have cards that allow me to throw creatures in the graveyard from my hand/deck.
What does everyone think about this one? I've seen some players running it but I'm still unimpressed. Sure, it is card advantage, but it's just sooo slow.
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
Seeing no mention of Devour in Shadow, Vendetta, Dismember, and Orzhov Charm makes me sad.
Versatility is only worth the increased cost to your bottom line if it's truly do or die. Typically for your spot removal you're looking for two cmc and instant as anything more (3+) is the rough equivalent of holding up Cancel in mono-U. It had better be worth it. And, let's be honest, unless you're hitting a Necro (and even then, it's too late) then that three mana was a poor investment and better spent elsewhere for the cost.
Unmake? Utter End? Gosh these cards are so bad for their cost and/or difficulty of cast. You're either so hard up for answers that you're digging through the bottom of your box for something, or you're so far down the rabbit hole that you're looking for your 21st removal.
4WWBB total just to exile the first creature is aweful already. 10WWWWBBBB are required to flip it... 12WWWWWBBBBB ... to get a single one of the exiled creatures back at a time is an utter joke.
I mean, with infinite mana you can exile all creatures before it flips then return them one by one. That has to be one of the "fairest" and most Timmy-esque things to with infinite mana, though.
You know a card with activated abilities is bad, if Rings of Brighthearth doesn't really make it better.
I run Profane Procession, and I don't actually use it as removal that much. It's a rattlesnake play - don't come at me, bro, or I'll eat your guy. I have the comfort of an instant speed mana sink out of the command zone, so I get to hold it up and scare people away. Probably wouldn't recommend for general use.
Versatility is only worth the increased cost to your bottom line if it's truly do or die. Typically for your spot removal you're looking for two cmc and instant as anything more (3+) is the rough equivalent of holding up Cancel in mono-U. It had better be worth it. And, let's be honest, unless you're hitting a Necro (and even then, it's too late) then that three mana was a poor investment and better spent elsewhere for the cost.
Unmake? Utter End? Gosh these cards are so bad for their cost and/or difficulty of cast. You're either so hard up for answers that you're digging through the bottom of your box for something, or you're so far down the rabbit hole that you're looking for your 21st removal.
I was specifically looking at Orzhov spells. Dismember, imo, is the 4th best removal spells after StP, PtE and Murderous Cut. I also run Tragic Slip because Ayli can turn it on whenever.
I have never run the other 3 cards. Life loss isn't that bad, but after the 4 mentioned 'best' creature removal spells I would then look to more versatile/permanent answers. Orzhov charm is also not doing it for me in terms of versatility.
I understand why you say that Utter End is weaker because it is 4 mana, but as far as versatility goes only Anguished Unmaking is better in these colours (and maybe Oblation).
Wow, I guess my experience with Profane Procession is vastly different from most of you. I run it in a number of decks, and it works really really well. Like Rumpy said, typically I want it to come down early to discourage people from dropping nasty stuff. But later on, I still think it is fantastic. The exile prevents recursion, you can snipe commanders without flipping it too early, and at the end of the game it's a source of card advantage.
Wow, I guess my experience with Profane Procession is vastly different from most of you. I run it in a number of decks, and it works really really well. Like Rumpy said, typically I want it to come down early to discourage people from dropping nasty stuff. But later on, I still think it is fantastic. The exile prevents recursion, you can snipe commanders without flipping it too early, and at the end of the game it's a source of card advantage.
I've not played with either of them, but i can definitely imagine profane procession being pretty good as a rattlesnake. That being said, i can imagine that the tempo hit on me would be so huge that i'm not sure i'd wanna do that.
despark i can see being better than anguished unmaking and utter end. that 1-2 extra mana is a LOT. i mean, what's the scariest things that generally pop down that you absolutely don't want to see, and HAVE to spend an entire card to exile? most of the time, they're 4 or more CMC. which is fine and dandy. But yea at the end of the day, a range of varied removal is probably the way to go.
That said, I feel like I still like it better than Despark when I remember that equipment, combo pieces, and sac outlets all dodge it. Given that I'm going to be running Swords to Plowshares and Anguished Unmaking regardless, I think I'm more willing to run Disenchant variant / Seal of Cleansing than spot removal that costs 4, but it does really come down to what else the deck has going on.
My biggest issue with Utter End versus Despark is 4 versus 2 mana, and CMC 4 or greater. If I'm in a competitive environment, 4 mana might be too much just for spot removal that doesn't exile, doesn't offer card advantage, and doesn't hit a lot of targets (lands, a lot of cheap utility creatures and combo pieces). At the same time, I'm almost certain to see permanents with CMC 4 or greater even in competitive environments just because Titans exist, Gearhulks exist, Primordials exist, Felidar Sovereign exists, Steel Hellkite exists, a lot of removal or card draw with a body creatures exist. Beyond that, it does get rid of Cathars' Crusade, which is a combo piece for a few things.
I like Vindicate, but keep in mind, I'm not dumb enough to only play sorcery-speed removal. It's there, but I'm not relying on it to kill combo pieces or things like Coat of Arms and Beastmaster Ascension which kill you the turn they drop.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
My biggest issue with Utter End versus Despark is 4 versus 2 mana, and CMC 4 or greater. If I'm in a competitive environment, 4 mana might be too much just for spot removal that doesn't exile...
But it does, though?
Also I don't think any of the permanents you listed get run hardly at all in true cEDH metas. Plenty in 75%-ish metas, of course (Although I think the gearhulks are mostly pretty mediocre).
The problem with utter end in a cEDH setting is that it's too slow to stop many combos. The problem with despark is that it doesn't hit many critical combo pieces. I don't really think either are good enough vs cEDH decks, to be honest.
Vs cEDH I think you need to use cheap, less flexible removal like stp, pte, nature's claim, pongify, etc and hope the types line up, since you can't always afford the flexibility tax. Or run tempo removal like bounce and unexpectedly absent, that won't solve the problem forever but can disrupt them at a critical time.
Vs cEDH I think you need to use cheap, less flexible removal like stp, pte, nature's claim, pongify, etc and hope the types line up, since you can't always afford the flexibility tax. Or run tempo removal like bounce and unexpectedly absent, that won't solve the problem forever but can disrupt them at a critical time.
+1 for Unexpectedly Absent. That card is horrendously underplayed and does good things. I remember facing down Oloro, Ageless Ascetic running Sanguine/Exquisite combo among other infinites. At some point Oloro casts Sanguine, tutors for Exquisite, in response to casting Exquisite I cast Unexpectedly Absent with x=0 targetting Sanguine to make it his next draw. That was enough to disrupt his combo timing and he ended up being knocked out first.
Pretty much agree with regards to cEDH as well. None of the Orzhov removal suite are optimal in that environment - you're after bargain basement cost simple disruption moreso than permanent solutions in terms of exile. Knocking someone off their combo line is usually enough for someone else to take the upper hand.
The new white Beast Within I think jumps to my number two behind Anguished Unmaking with respect to the flexible spot removal slot. Technically I could put it at the top purely because it has a looser color requirement which theoretically matters in some contexts and an off-color creature when protection from in-deck colors matters. Making a creature for a player is also much more of a tool that can be wielded politically, either in the context of blocking or equipment that need bodies.
As the player with the resident Ayli primer, I figured I'd step in to add my 2 cents.
I would never play Despark over Utter End, Anguished Unmaking or Vindicate. I don't like the condition that the target must have a 4CMC or greater on Despark. It's easy to be tricked into thinking it's a good card because it only costs WB, but it's far too inconsistent for my tastes. Outside of a tokens build, Orzhov is not a color combination that works fast. That is why I don't mind the 4CMC for Utter End. Orzhov is a slow roll, building up incremental value until it snowballs into an engine that is too hard to stop. I'd rather utter end Scavenging Ooze and stop my graveyard from being eaten, or Eternal Witness to stop recursion shenanigans, than sit with a 2CMC card in my hand that can't hit half the potential problems on the board.
I'll gladly pay 1 more than I do for a Vindicate to exile something, because there is so much recursion in the format that exiling threats is one of the best things you can do. But those threats aren't always 4CMC and above. Sometimes they're Cloudstone Curios, or Ashnod's Altars and other 2-3 mana sac outlets or engines that you don't want them to be able to get back. I run both Anguished Unmaking and Utter End and Vindicate because 1.) depending on other people having good threat assessment is a liability, and 2.) the ability to surgically remove basically any target is an effect worth some redundancy. I'd still have Vindicate over this as a way to easily take out Maze of Ith, Volrath's Stronghold, Gavony Township, Gaea's Cradle, Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun etc. on top of any other target without Indestructible that it can hit. Costing 1-2 mana less than the existing options does not make it worth it, when it excludes so many important targets.
Edit: I'll also clarify I'm not considering cEDH because cEDH isn't how the vast majority of people play Commander, and it's not like Ayli is a cEDH-worthy Commander. So, I'm not sure how what place cEDH discussion has here.
Vindicate, Anguished Unmaking, Utter End, Mortify, Unmake, Despark.
Want to get Despark in my Ayli deck. The deck has tons of ways to deal with all kinds of permanents.... I just like Despark's mana cost and exile effect.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Anguished Unmaking > Utter end, unmake, and morify, almost always. More flexibility at the cost, and the life loss is pretty irrelevant.
Personally I would consider vindicate to be the worst of all of them. Sorcery speed absolutely kills it imo. Instant-speed is way more effective against combo and lets you wait as long as possible for someone else to answer it, and to make sure it's really YOUR problem and not someone else's. On the other hand, it does hit lands. So some metas might want that enough to justify the other downsides. I guess it's still probably better than unmake, for the flexibility.
Despark is a little tougher since it really will depend on meta - many of the best combos totally circumvent it. But it is only 2 mana. So if you want to minimize mana kept up and aren't worried about food chain combos and like, it could be great. Maybe the best in a more casual environment since it lets you develop the most while keeping it up, and probably most stuff that really matters will cost more than 3.
But in vacuum...
I'd say anguished unmaking > despark > utter end > mortify > vindicate > unmake.
EDIT: also worth pointing out that I'd consider many mono-w and mono-b answers better than many of these, especially STP and PTE. I'm also a big proponent of oblation.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
2. Utter End
3. Despark
4. Vindicate
5. Mortify
...
N. Unmake
Tough choice. I'm a big fan of instant speed removal that's flexible, so both Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are certainly top picks. Despark vs. Vindicate is a close one. One is more limited yet timely flexible and exiles, the other one may only destroy at sorcery speed but can hit lands as the only one of the bunch. Due to a very gy heavy meta i'd give it to Despark in the end.
Tbh, i always found Unmake to be very unconvincing. Only hits one card type, isn't necessarily mana light and can be akward 3C and up. The fact that it exiles at instant speed doesn't really make up for its downsides. There are several W and B cards i'd pick over it.
Yeah, pretty much this. You get Swords/Path that absolutely annihilate Unmake. I run those two, along with the first two of this list, in my Orzhov shell. I'm also eyeing Despark, but recall games where I'd need to pop a Ashnod's Altar, Goblin Bombardment or something.
Once the shell opens up to a third color, I'd personally rather run Chaos Warp or Beast Within over Utter End. I guess I could see myself running it in an esper shell. But in straight WB, I can only see myself playing creature-based decks and think there would be other ways to reach that effect in a more efficient/flexible way.
That said, I feel like I still like it better than Despark when I remember that equipment, combo pieces, and sac outlets all dodge it. Given that I'm going to be running Swords to Plowshares and Anguished Unmaking regardless, I think I'm more willing to run Disenchant variant / Seal of Cleansing than spot removal that costs 4, but it does really come down to what else the deck has going on.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
So you would play Angel of Despair over Vindicate? Obviously, there are things in my deck like Fiend Hunter and Shriekmaw and Ashen Rider.... but I feel like having cheaper options is important.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Though I'd still want a few standalone instants.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
My deck doesn't do a lot of reanimating. A bit, sure.... but I am not even sure I have cards that allow me to throw creatures in the graveyard from my hand/deck.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Mayael the Anima
The Mimeoplasm
Sen Triplets
Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign
Rafiq of the many
Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
Toshiro Umezawa
What does everyone think about this one? I've seen some players running it but I'm still unimpressed. Sure, it is card advantage, but it's just sooo slow.
Versatility is only worth the increased cost to your bottom line if it's truly do or die. Typically for your spot removal you're looking for two cmc and instant as anything more (3+) is the rough equivalent of holding up Cancel in mono-U. It had better be worth it. And, let's be honest, unless you're hitting a Necro (and even then, it's too late) then that three mana was a poor investment and better spent elsewhere for the cost.
Unmake? Utter End? Gosh these cards are so bad for their cost and/or difficulty of cast. You're either so hard up for answers that you're digging through the bottom of your box for something, or you're so far down the rabbit hole that you're looking for your 21st removal.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
4WWBB total just to exile the first creature is aweful already.
10WWWWBBBB are required to flip it...
12WWWWWBBBBB ... to get a single one of the exiled creatures back at a time is an utter joke.
I mean, with infinite mana you can exile all creatures before it flips then return them one by one. That has to be one of the "fairest" and most Timmy-esque things to with infinite mana, though.
You know a card with activated abilities is bad, if Rings of Brighthearth doesn't really make it better.
I was specifically looking at Orzhov spells. Dismember, imo, is the 4th best removal spells after StP, PtE and Murderous Cut. I also run Tragic Slip because Ayli can turn it on whenever.
I have never run the other 3 cards. Life loss isn't that bad, but after the 4 mentioned 'best' creature removal spells I would then look to more versatile/permanent answers. Orzhov charm is also not doing it for me in terms of versatility.
I understand why you say that Utter End is weaker because it is 4 mana, but as far as versatility goes only Anguished Unmaking is better in these colours (and maybe Oblation).
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Unrelated, I've really been liking Despark.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI've not played with either of them, but i can definitely imagine profane procession being pretty good as a rattlesnake. That being said, i can imagine that the tempo hit on me would be so huge that i'm not sure i'd wanna do that.
despark i can see being better than anguished unmaking and utter end. that 1-2 extra mana is a LOT. i mean, what's the scariest things that generally pop down that you absolutely don't want to see, and HAVE to spend an entire card to exile? most of the time, they're 4 or more CMC. which is fine and dandy. But yea at the end of the day, a range of varied removal is probably the way to go.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
My biggest issue with Utter End versus Despark is 4 versus 2 mana, and CMC 4 or greater. If I'm in a competitive environment, 4 mana might be too much just for spot removal that doesn't exile, doesn't offer card advantage, and doesn't hit a lot of targets (lands, a lot of cheap utility creatures and combo pieces). At the same time, I'm almost certain to see permanents with CMC 4 or greater even in competitive environments just because Titans exist, Gearhulks exist, Primordials exist, Felidar Sovereign exists, Steel Hellkite exists, a lot of removal or card draw with a body creatures exist. Beyond that, it does get rid of Cathars' Crusade, which is a combo piece for a few things.
I like Vindicate, but keep in mind, I'm not dumb enough to only play sorcery-speed removal. It's there, but I'm not relying on it to kill combo pieces or things like Coat of Arms and Beastmaster Ascension which kill you the turn they drop.
On phasing:
Also I don't think any of the permanents you listed get run hardly at all in true cEDH metas. Plenty in 75%-ish metas, of course (Although I think the gearhulks are mostly pretty mediocre).
The problem with utter end in a cEDH setting is that it's too slow to stop many combos. The problem with despark is that it doesn't hit many critical combo pieces. I don't really think either are good enough vs cEDH decks, to be honest.
Vs cEDH I think you need to use cheap, less flexible removal like stp, pte, nature's claim, pongify, etc and hope the types line up, since you can't always afford the flexibility tax. Or run tempo removal like bounce and unexpectedly absent, that won't solve the problem forever but can disrupt them at a critical time.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
+1 for Unexpectedly Absent. That card is horrendously underplayed and does good things. I remember facing down Oloro, Ageless Ascetic running Sanguine/Exquisite combo among other infinites. At some point Oloro casts Sanguine, tutors for Exquisite, in response to casting Exquisite I cast Unexpectedly Absent with x=0 targetting Sanguine to make it his next draw. That was enough to disrupt his combo timing and he ended up being knocked out first.
Pretty much agree with regards to cEDH as well. None of the Orzhov removal suite are optimal in that environment - you're after bargain basement cost simple disruption moreso than permanent solutions in terms of exile. Knocking someone off their combo line is usually enough for someone else to take the upper hand.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
I would never play Despark over Utter End, Anguished Unmaking or Vindicate. I don't like the condition that the target must have a 4CMC or greater on Despark. It's easy to be tricked into thinking it's a good card because it only costs WB, but it's far too inconsistent for my tastes. Outside of a tokens build, Orzhov is not a color combination that works fast. That is why I don't mind the 4CMC for Utter End. Orzhov is a slow roll, building up incremental value until it snowballs into an engine that is too hard to stop. I'd rather utter end Scavenging Ooze and stop my graveyard from being eaten, or Eternal Witness to stop recursion shenanigans, than sit with a 2CMC card in my hand that can't hit half the potential problems on the board.
I'll gladly pay 1 more than I do for a Vindicate to exile something, because there is so much recursion in the format that exiling threats is one of the best things you can do. But those threats aren't always 4CMC and above. Sometimes they're Cloudstone Curios, or Ashnod's Altars and other 2-3 mana sac outlets or engines that you don't want them to be able to get back. I run both Anguished Unmaking and Utter End and Vindicate because 1.) depending on other people having good threat assessment is a liability, and 2.) the ability to surgically remove basically any target is an effect worth some redundancy. I'd still have Vindicate over this as a way to easily take out Maze of Ith, Volrath's Stronghold, Gavony Township, Gaea's Cradle, Itlimoc, Cradle of the Sun etc. on top of any other target without Indestructible that it can hit. Costing 1-2 mana less than the existing options does not make it worth it, when it excludes so many important targets.
Angel of Despair aside, there is Archon of Justice, Return to Dust, False Prophet, Ashen Rider, Mangara of Corondor/Angel of Serenity/Fiend Hunter + sac outlets. Orzhov doesn't have a lack of ways to permanently flat out exile various things of the entire spectrum of CMC. Despark is frankly outclassed and overrated.
I don't even get started on those running Profane Procession.
Edit: I'll also clarify I'm not considering cEDH because cEDH isn't how the vast majority of people play Commander, and it's not like Ayli is a cEDH-worthy Commander. So, I'm not sure how what place cEDH discussion has here.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Generous Gift is a very versatile card in white.
Anguished Unmaking is the cream of the crop in my opinion.
After Anguished Unmaking, Vindicate, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Mortify, and Generous Gift, I would move to creature-based removal. Then after that look at Unmake and Hero's Downfall, and Murder