I am just curios what people think is the potential of amass' in edh. While I do not feel the mechanic is great, I think dreadhorde invasion may have some staying power. Especially in decks lime ghave.
Amass, like most mechanics, is fine. What determines whether people will play amass cards isn't the mechanic per se. It's whether Wizards actually prints any cards with amass that are good enough for Commander. Poring through the set, it looks like all the amass cards were designed for either Standard or limited. As such, you're probably not going to see many played in Commander.
If I had to pick a "most likely to be seen," it would probably be Gleaming Overseer. It could possibly slot into existing zombie tribal decks that have a heavy token bend already.
"Amass" is dictionary defined as.. "gather together or accumulate (a large amount or number of material or things) over a period of time.", doesn't actually resonate with what the ability does.
Then they throw in the word "army" and again you imagine a mass of creatures, which this ability doesn't actually achieve.
It only creates minimal +1/+1 counters, so in general it's been a failure in naming and flavor with the perceived notion of an "army" of Zombies, which it just doesn't do.
It also encourages that you don't have an army at all, as gaining a creature (in general) is more advantageous than a +1/+1 counter.
So again it misleads the idea of building an "army", as really you want them to die before you cast these spells. Which also means that stacking multiples of these types of cards isn't in your best interest.
The ability is fine for Standard and Limited dueling because you are working on tighter margins, so an additional creature creates tempo, but you only want to play a few of them. An army they are not.
I mean there are some good cards, but it's not because of Amass, it's because of what the rest of the card does. Lazotep Plating I think will be underrated, and I've pointed out in my review for the set for some of my primers that it does provide protection on different levels, including the token itself, which can be a temporary block against my planeswalker themed decks.
Vizier of the Scorpion is obviously pretty fine for a Zombie tribal deck, as it creates two creatures from one spell.
Widespread Brutality will on average only deal two damage to creatures in commander, although in the changeling tribal deck I have it's pretty deece at killing all opponents creatures.
"Amass" is dictionary defined as.. "gather together or accumulate (a large amount or number of material or things) over a period of time.", doesn't actually resonate with what the ability does.
Then they throw in the word "army" and again you imagine a mass of creatures, which this ability doesn't actually achieve.
It only creates minimal +1/+1 counters, so in general it's been a failure in naming and flavor with the perceived notion of an "army" of Zombies, which it just doesn't do.
It also encourages that you don't have an army at all, as gaining a creature (in general) is more advantageous than a +1/+1 counter.
So again it misleads the idea of building an "army", as really you want them to die before you cast these spells. Which also means that stacking multiples of these types of cards isn't in your best interest.
The ability is fine for Standard and Limited dueling because you are working on tighter margins, so an additional creature creates tempo, but you only want to play a few of them. An army they are not.
I kind of disagree here. Wizards have basically always depicted a large united group as a single card. E.g. I feel that Angry Mob, unruly mob and Rising Populace are all similar to this in flavor. Then more comes, you make rhe creature repsenting the group larger. That said, I would have used a smaller unit size than army - on the other hand army of the dead is fairly common expression for these things.
"Amass" is dictionary defined as.. "gather together or accumulate (a large amount or number of material or things) over a period of time.", doesn't actually resonate with what the ability does.
Then they throw in the word "army" and again you imagine a mass of creatures, which this ability doesn't actually achieve.
It only creates minimal +1/+1 counters, so in general it's been a failure in naming and flavor with the perceived notion of an "army" of Zombies, which it just doesn't do.
It also encourages that you don't have an army at all, as gaining a creature (in general) is more advantageous than a +1/+1 counter.
So again it misleads the idea of building an "army", as really you want them to die before you cast these spells. Which also means that stacking multiples of these types of cards isn't in your best interest.
The ability is fine for Standard and Limited dueling because you are working on tighter margins, so an additional creature creates tempo, but you only want to play a few of them. An army they are not.
I kind of disagree here. Wizards have basically always depicted a large united group as a single card. E.g. I feel that Angry Mob, unruly mob and Rising Populace are all similar to this in flavor. Then more comes, you make rhe creature repsenting the group larger. That said, I would have used a smaller unit size than army - on the other hand army of the dead is fairly common expression for these things.
I think picking those cards is a little selective. Look at Army of the Damned.
I honestly think this ability started off as something a little different when it was first conceived and then they nerfed it after testing, so they just hung onto the naming.
I bet you it was without the "If you don't control an Army" clause originally. So you could use it to creature tokens or +1/+1 at your choosing. It would not surprise me if R&D reveal something like this in the future.
I haven’t done any testing yet, but I am much more optimistic that Amass cards will see play in certain decks.
I think that Zombie tribal will like the Amass creatures as they will almost always generate a token (I don’t think that there are enough good Amass cards that you will run into multiples in a 99 card deck very often. Getting two bodies on one card plays into all the tribal synergies, and being creatures means that they can be easily recurred. I’m less of a fan of the spells that have Amass, but Commence the Endgame still seems good enough.
I am also thinking that +1/+1 counter decks would like some of cards, and I intend to try a few in Ghave and potentially in Vorel. Given enough Doubling Season and Hardened Scales effects, you can get some really good value out of several of the Amass spells. And with Doubling Season, you will actually generate two tokens when you Amass with no other Army in play, and even though one won’t get counters it will be created (triggering your Cathars’ Crusade and Juniper Oder Ranger) and will die (triggering your Grave Pact and Blood Artist). I think that there is potential there.
As of now Amass doesn't seem great, albeit some Amass cards have other aspects to them which makes them a consideration, also as said any token doubler does make a token which dies, which is nice for on-death triggers.
I think I'd consider Commence the Endgame for a potential semi-budget tribal Gisa and Geralf EDH I'm considering brewing. It's high mana yeah, but you have a lot of zombie tribal support, and I mean even if it only makes say a 5/5 or 6/6, that at instant speed along with the draw isn't an awful deal (I also like the art), especially when you know it's not getting countered.
I was going to suggest Chameleon Colossus, but pro-black kinda sucks in this case. Wait, it doesn't target? Then go ahead.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I think picking those cards is a little selective. Look at Army of the Damned.
I honestly think this ability started off as something a little different when it was first conceived and then they nerfed it after testing, so they just hung onto the naming.
I bet you it was without the "If you don't control an Army" clause originally. So you could use it to creature tokens or +1/+1 at your choosing. It would not surprise me if R&D reveal something like this in the future.
They might have changed it as you suggested. On the other hand, it could be a mechanic arrived at by looking at one of the cards I mentioned (not the rising populace one of course - that would violated causality) snd saying: Lets turn that into a mechanic.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
I think that Invade the City and especially Commence the Endgame can be good in a spell base deck, especially Kess, Dissident Mage. Along with copiers, you could be looking at a big token. And regardless of size, you always need something to block in EDH.
The rest is kind of meh.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Lazotep Reaver - Provides 2 bodies for 2 mana in black, rather than needing one to die like Doomed Dissenter does for example. I'm testing whether that upfront value is with decks that card about the amount of creatures sac'd to an effect (like the new Bontu) rather than providing a body post board wipe.
Lazotep Plating - This has been flying massively under the radar in testing. Situations where someone tries to remove a creature before combat with a player also having a Maze of Ith effect are pretty common across playgroups. Protecting all permanents also lets this one work for your lovely non-creature wincons.
Dreadhorde Invasion - Budget Bitterblossom for sacrificing at least one thing a turn to a Skullclamp for example, at worst gets bigger over time. If you already have is more expensive cousin, you won't need it though.
Any deck waning these kind of effects that also happens to have a zombie tribal theme will desire them even more so. These are just the 3 general use cards, some token zombie decks may want others.
Currently I am building a deck utilizing Amass cards and Marchesa, The Black Rose. Does Marchesa work with amass? Yes she does. Of course it requires cards such as conspiracy to do it but with Marchesa and Conspiracy, stuff gets counters, stuff will die and return to add counters. Minion Reflector and Conjurer's Closet for more amass triggers. Unnatural selection is another option along the lines of Conspiracy.
Lazotep Reaver - Provides 2 bodies for 2 mana in black, rather than needing one to die like Doomed Dissenter does for example. I'm testing whether that upfront value is with decks that care about the amount of creatures sac'd to an effect (like the new Bontu) rather than providing a body post board wipe.
Lazotep Plating - This has been flying massively under the radar in testing. Situations where someone tries to remove a creature before combat with a player also having a Maze of Ith effect are pretty common across playgroups. Protecting all permanents also lets this one work for your lovely non-creature wincons.
I feel like if you want two bodies for 2, Sultai Emissary is probably the best version of that effect in the vacuum with Butcher Ghoul having combo potential with something like Marchesa. Unless having to wait for the trigger to resolve is a liability, not having both creatures at once doesn't seem like that big of a deal if your intention is to sacrifice them as fuel. I could see where you have the option to chump block more things at once or maybe something like Whisper needing multiple bodies in play. It's probably deck-specific. The Amass just feels like a liability here though since if you recur it, you might lose a "free" creature as merely a +1/+1 counter, while with the Emissary, you accumulate manifests.
Lazotep Plating is probably the card that is the most relevant to commander, though at the same time it's probably the most replaceable? I'm having a hard time thinking of things that Disallow can't hit that Lazotep Plating can. The Amass lets it be used as a chump blocker. Plating is cheaper and can be held up as a way to stop Bojuka Bog, but vs spells, it's competing against Negate and Dive Down, the latter of which I can't say I'm in the market for. It feels more like a metagame call if you want to protect your artifacts / creatures / lands and your metagame has a noticeably higher amount of Wasteland / Seal of Cleansing style removal; it lets you stop those without being as niche as Trickbind / Stifle.
Dreadhorde Invasion feels like a budget token option and may be irreplaceable at that mana cost / price point, but I really don't like it because you can't accumulate tokens. If you don't spend them right away, the later triggers don't do anything and also prevent the token from autodying to Skullclamp. Basically, you're losing a lot of value if you can't accumulate tokens / are forced to use them immediately every turn.
Commence the Endgame with some other Amass cards may have a use for Simic with the +1/+1 counters matter.
If going for the Simic Ascendancy win I think Commence the Endgame would help with that with copy spell support or other draw support.
Uyo, Silent Prophet also works with Commence the Endgame since for 2 and bouncing two lands back to the hand, she can copy the spell to make the Army token bigger.
Dreadhorde Invasion feels like a budget token option and may be irreplaceable at that mana cost / price point, but I really don't like it because you can't accumulate tokens. If you don't spend them right away, the later triggers don't do anything and also prevent the token from autodying to Skullclamp. Basically, you're losing a lot of value if you can't accumulate tokens / are forced to use them immediately every turn.
It goes into the theme of "pay 1 life and do something every turn", like Phyrexian Arena and Bitterblossom. I'd say it's really not that good unless you go all in on zombie tribal. If you give your zombies at least +2/+N, you get some benefit just from 4/4 eternal tokens, but you need at least +4/+N for zombies. The really weird thing is, it wants you to splash white for all the anthems, especially (of course) Cathars' Crusade, but then it feels kinda winmoar. And it definitely feels contrary to token decks, where you typically want to go wide, not tall. And unlike 5/5 demon and zombie giant and dragon tokens or 4/4 angel tokens or 9/9 kraken tokens or 6/6 wurm tokens or clone tokens in general, you can't populate a 0/0 token easily, and you really wouldn't want to, most of the time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I like Gleaming Overseer , Eternal Skylord, Dreadhorde Invasion , Vizier of the Scorpion and Lazotep Plating for Varina. Invasion in particular synergizes since Varina's ability can soften the life loss each turn. Skylord is a worse Wonder in a vacuum, but I think benefiting from tribal synergies might edge the zombie into it's place.
As others have said, I think plating is just good. I won't say it's going to quite be a staple, but I think it'll see lots of play. That's more for the effect than the body, though, and I doubt the Amass will be relevant there.
Outside of zombie tribal, I don't think many of these cards will see play, unless it's like a Bolas helmed all-in amass/Bolas tribal deck, which is probably fine too.
Dreadhorde Invasion feels like a budget token option and may be irreplaceable at that mana cost / price point, but I really don't like it because you can't accumulate tokens. If you don't spend them right away, the later triggers don't do anything and also prevent the token from autodying to Skullclamp. Basically, you're losing a lot of value if you can't accumulate tokens / are forced to use them immediately every turn.
But those cards always do a thing every turn without fail. In the context of commander, making a new body is significantly better than putting one +1/+1 counter on a small creature. Given that it's an upkeep trigger, you really want it to be reliable given how many things will happen in a commander game between them.
"Amass" is dictionary defined as.. "gather together or accumulate (a large amount or number of material or things) over a period of time.", doesn't actually resonate with what the ability does.
Then they throw in the word "army" and again you imagine a mass of creatures, which this ability doesn't actually achieve.
It only creates minimal +1/+1 counters, so in general it's been a failure in naming and flavor with the perceived notion of an "army" of Zombies, which it just doesn't do.
It also encourages that you don't have an army at all, as gaining a creature (in general) is more advantageous than a +1/+1 counter.
I find it funny that, flavorwise, the army consists of those battle hardened magical steel covered eternals. So, if you amass, I'd say you add at least 3-5, more likely 10 of them to the army as 1/1 or +1/+1. Then, you have your vanilla zombie token, wich is a half-decayed corpse with zero on the defence and little on the offense as a 2/2
Amass is a terrible mechanic with some nonetheless good cards. The creatures that grant abilities to zombie tokens can see play just for that, with amass as a bonus that happens to make a zombie.
I'm actually a bit interested in Widespread Brutality though. Zombies have a lot of Lords, so even if it makes the token it can often do some pretty solid damage to creatures. It might also be good in a jund +1/+1 counters matter deck. Basically, if the token will reliably have power 4 or greater in your deck, this should be considered. In both of those types of decks, btw, your own creatures are probably surviving it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
If I had to pick a "most likely to be seen," it would probably be Gleaming Overseer. It could possibly slot into existing zombie tribal decks that have a heavy token bend already.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Then they throw in the word "army" and again you imagine a mass of creatures, which this ability doesn't actually achieve.
It only creates minimal +1/+1 counters, so in general it's been a failure in naming and flavor with the perceived notion of an "army" of Zombies, which it just doesn't do.
It also encourages that you don't have an army at all, as gaining a creature (in general) is more advantageous than a +1/+1 counter.
So again it misleads the idea of building an "army", as really you want them to die before you cast these spells. Which also means that stacking multiples of these types of cards isn't in your best interest.
The ability is fine for Standard and Limited dueling because you are working on tighter margins, so an additional creature creates tempo, but you only want to play a few of them. An army they are not.
I mean there are some good cards, but it's not because of Amass, it's because of what the rest of the card does.
Lazotep Plating I think will be underrated, and I've pointed out in my review for the set for some of my primers that it does provide protection on different levels, including the token itself, which can be a temporary block against my planeswalker themed decks.
Vizier of the Scorpion is obviously pretty fine for a Zombie tribal deck, as it creates two creatures from one spell.
Widespread Brutality will on average only deal two damage to creatures in commander, although in the changeling tribal deck I have it's pretty deece at killing all opponents creatures.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I kind of disagree here. Wizards have basically always depicted a large united group as a single card. E.g. I feel that Angry Mob, unruly mob and Rising Populace are all similar to this in flavor. Then more comes, you make rhe creature repsenting the group larger. That said, I would have used a smaller unit size than army - on the other hand army of the dead is fairly common expression for these things.
Like the op I feel that the only really good one is Dreadhorde Invasion. It is similar to bitterblossom which is a fine card.
I tested Dreadhorde Invasion, Commence the Endgame, and Widespread Brutality. In terms of control, Bitterblossom is better than Invasion, power 6 token comes by slowly unless you play other amass cards. CtE is a fine card, since in control deck you could easily get 5+ power as an instant blocker, also activates Invasion’s requirement. WB is used in my Bolas God deck because I included Everlasting Torment to supplement The Scorpion God/The Locust God/Goblin Bombardment.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I honestly think this ability started off as something a little different when it was first conceived and then they nerfed it after testing, so they just hung onto the naming.
I bet you it was without the "If you don't control an Army" clause originally. So you could use it to creature tokens or +1/+1 at your choosing. It would not surprise me if R&D reveal something like this in the future.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I think that Zombie tribal will like the Amass creatures as they will almost always generate a token (I don’t think that there are enough good Amass cards that you will run into multiples in a 99 card deck very often. Getting two bodies on one card plays into all the tribal synergies, and being creatures means that they can be easily recurred. I’m less of a fan of the spells that have Amass, but Commence the Endgame still seems good enough.
I am also thinking that +1/+1 counter decks would like some of cards, and I intend to try a few in Ghave and potentially in Vorel. Given enough Doubling Season and Hardened Scales effects, you can get some really good value out of several of the Amass spells. And with Doubling Season, you will actually generate two tokens when you Amass with no other Army in play, and even though one won’t get counters it will be created (triggering your Cathars’ Crusade and Juniper Oder Ranger) and will die (triggering your Grave Pact and Blood Artist). I think that there is potential there.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
I think I'd consider Commence the Endgame for a potential semi-budget tribal Gisa and Geralf EDH I'm considering brewing. It's high mana yeah, but you have a lot of zombie tribal support, and I mean even if it only makes say a 5/5 or 6/6, that at instant speed along with the draw isn't an awful deal (I also like the art), especially when you know it's not getting countered.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I was going to suggest Chameleon Colossus, but pro-black kinda sucks in this case. Wait, it doesn't target? Then go ahead.
On phasing:
Good point. I did forget about Army of the Damned.
They might have changed it as you suggested. On the other hand, it could be a mechanic arrived at by looking at one of the cards I mentioned (not the rising populace one of course - that would violated causality) snd saying: Lets turn that into a mechanic.
The rest is kind of meh.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Lazotep Plating - This has been flying massively under the radar in testing. Situations where someone tries to remove a creature before combat with a player also having a Maze of Ith effect are pretty common across playgroups. Protecting all permanents also lets this one work for your lovely non-creature wincons.
Dreadhorde Invasion - Budget Bitterblossom for sacrificing at least one thing a turn to a Skullclamp for example, at worst gets bigger over time. If you already have is more expensive cousin, you won't need it though.
Any deck waning these kind of effects that also happens to have a zombie tribal theme will desire them even more so. These are just the 3 general use cards, some token zombie decks may want others.
Lazotep Plating is probably the card that is the most relevant to commander, though at the same time it's probably the most replaceable? I'm having a hard time thinking of things that Disallow can't hit that Lazotep Plating can. The Amass lets it be used as a chump blocker. Plating is cheaper and can be held up as a way to stop Bojuka Bog, but vs spells, it's competing against Negate and Dive Down, the latter of which I can't say I'm in the market for. It feels more like a metagame call if you want to protect your artifacts / creatures / lands and your metagame has a noticeably higher amount of Wasteland / Seal of Cleansing style removal; it lets you stop those without being as niche as Trickbind / Stifle.
Dreadhorde Invasion feels like a budget token option and may be irreplaceable at that mana cost / price point, but I really don't like it because you can't accumulate tokens. If you don't spend them right away, the later triggers don't do anything and also prevent the token from autodying to Skullclamp. Basically, you're losing a lot of value if you can't accumulate tokens / are forced to use them immediately every turn.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
If going for the Simic Ascendancy win I think Commence the Endgame would help with that with copy spell support or other draw support.
Uyo, Silent Prophet also works with Commence the Endgame since for 2 and bouncing two lands back to the hand, she can copy the spell to make the Army token bigger.
It goes into the theme of "pay 1 life and do something every turn", like Phyrexian Arena and Bitterblossom. I'd say it's really not that good unless you go all in on zombie tribal. If you give your zombies at least +2/+N, you get some benefit just from 4/4 eternal tokens, but you need at least +4/+N for zombies. The really weird thing is, it wants you to splash white for all the anthems, especially (of course) Cathars' Crusade, but then it feels kinda winmoar. And it definitely feels contrary to token decks, where you typically want to go wide, not tall. And unlike 5/5 demon and zombie giant and dragon tokens or 4/4 angel tokens or 9/9 kraken tokens or 6/6 wurm tokens or clone tokens in general, you can't populate a 0/0 token easily, and you really wouldn't want to, most of the time.
On phasing:
As others have said, I think plating is just good. I won't say it's going to quite be a staple, but I think it'll see lots of play. That's more for the effect than the body, though, and I doubt the Amass will be relevant there.
Outside of zombie tribal, I don't think many of these cards will see play, unless it's like a Bolas helmed all-in amass/Bolas tribal deck, which is probably fine too.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
I find it funny that, flavorwise, the army consists of those battle hardened magical steel covered eternals. So, if you amass, I'd say you add at least 3-5, more likely 10 of them to the army as 1/1 or +1/+1. Then, you have your vanilla zombie token, wich is a half-decayed corpse with zero on the defence and little on the offense as a 2/2
I'm actually a bit interested in Widespread Brutality though. Zombies have a lot of Lords, so even if it makes the token it can often do some pretty solid damage to creatures. It might also be good in a jund +1/+1 counters matter deck. Basically, if the token will reliably have power 4 or greater in your deck, this should be considered. In both of those types of decks, btw, your own creatures are probably surviving it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Or with Divine Visitation.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Oh wow. I just found a nice combo for ghave.