I want to talk about the 'moral' aspects of conceding and if it is or is not a good practice
I think conceding is a 'bad player's' choice (bad not for skill reasons) and these are my thoughts abut it.
Sometimes in some games we will want it to end because it is looking bad for us, one or more opponents just focuses on us, or we are mana screw, or we misplayed a lot or any other reason that is taking the fun away from us.
I know the feeling, I have been there a lot of times and I will be there a lot more, but no matter hw bad is the game for me, no matter how much I want to concede I don't do it for these reasons
1. It is a game we play with friends, so, we should have our focus on having fun altogether, if I am the victim of a focus by two players and I rage-quit the game, I will leave the table, but the bad feeling will stay at the table, so why ruining the game for the other players?
2. The game is not over for us until our life total get's 0, so we can try to overcome the problems, maybe winning sometimes will be very out of our reach in some games, but we can try, we can learn, we can take the opportunity to study how our deck behaves against such games and how to improve it.
3, Maybe one or 2 players are focusing on us to 'have revenge' for past games, and that is ok too, I remember a session were I won 2 games in a row, one player was very salty because I killed him first at 1st game, then he 'side boarded' tons of counter spells with the sole focus of not letting me play and I won the 2nd game too and other player got salted, so when we got to the 3rd game, I knew they will be focusing me, I got mana screw, I had 5 lands at turn 7 and one of my opponents played Terastodon aiming for 3 of my 5 lands, so it was pretty much game over for me, but I didn't concede, I play to the end working hard to overcome the situation, to survive long enough and try to win, I din't won, I was killed first, they had the blood they wanted and we all had fun, no bad feeling at my side of the table.
So, if the players are focusing you because you won too many games, or you commander is scary or any other reason, just suck it up
4. Some times some one will cast Bribery on us, nobody want's our opponents having our stuff, but conceding to an effect like this, or a annihilator X or any other bad stuff just ruins the game for your friends.
What is the deal then? The opponents can't target us bribery or similar effects because 'in response' we will concede and it will be a wasted attack or a 'counterspell like'?. For me this kind of behavior show bad sportsmanship to say the least.
5. Let people do their magic, if you are in a 1v1 against the last player, and he will attack us for lethal, let him do it, it wont take more than 30 seconds, do you feel better saying 'concede' than 'lose'? is that it?
So many times I saw that a player gets his engine going, he is getting the upper hand against the last one, the last player knows the game is not in his favor, so he concedes, well that is also bad sportsmanship, because you may find a way to overcome it, and even if you don't, the winning player build his or her deck to do some magic and it is doing it, by conceding 2 or 3 turns earlier we are taking away his fun
So, I once played a 4 player game and when we were down to me and the last opponent, I put gift of immortality on Kami of False Hope. My opponent looked at this and realized that his monogreen deck didn't have a way to beat this. So he conceded.
Not only is this fair play, this is preferable to playing a long game where I slowly kill him since he already knows he cannot win.
I agree that sometimes people concede early and it is frustrating. When someone concedes in response to Bribery, it is unsportsmanlike. But they should still be allowed to do it. In the end, it is a game for fun, and if someone doesn't like having their personal possessions handled by other people, they can concede.
If someone is conceding out of spite - for example, you are attacking with your general for 21 commander damage with lifelink, and they concede before damage is dealt so you don't gain life - this is not something that should be accepted in a playgroup.
But conceding because you know you cannot win and you want to play a game with someone else or go get food.... whatever the reason... this is fine. If you can't win why sit there?
I get how you feel because I am like you, but I have learned to accept that sometimes the game ends not because someone won but because someone felt they lost. I am constantly surprised by how early people concede in other formats (I mainly play draft). I countered a Flametongue Kavu on mtgo today and my opponent scooped. He was at 20 life.
It may be less satisfying that a grindy long-lasting game, but it is just as valid.
I agree that sometimes people concede early and it is frustrating. When someone concedes in response to Bribery, it is unsportsmanlike. But they should still be allowed to do it. In the end, it is a game for fun, and if someone doesn't like having their personal possessions handled by other people, they can concede.
If we accept this, then what is the right answer? never cast Bribery on that player because he will scoop? or casting it knowing it will be player removal instead of the thing it should do?
So, I once played a 4 player game and when we were down to me and the last opponent, I put gift of immortality on Kami of False Hope. My opponent looked at this and realized that his monogreen deck didn't have a way to beat this. So he conceded.
This is different, If I am playing a monogreen and you cast Iona, shield of emeria for green and I have not scourge from existence in my deck or nevyral disk, then it is ok to say that and concede if we are the last one , but trust me, If the game is not 1v1 and you cast Iona for my mono color I will be still in the game and wont conceade
Conceding isn't an easy topic to discuss. I'd split the discussion in (at least) 3 subtopic:
1. Timing:
Whenever possible, i'm a 100% pro "concede at sorcery speed", with the few exceptions being very drawn out combo offs that are obvious to succeed, infinite turns etc. This way several possible feel bads can be avoided.
2. Reasoning:
Yes, the usual instances of losing may be 0 life, 10 poison counters, drawing from an empty library and 21 commander damage, but i don't mind (others) conceeding, if it is either highly unlikely to turn things around or could be as unpleasant/drawn out as it gets.
In most cases i won't sit through an ulted Narset Transcendent, Jace, Architect of Thoughts' -8, an enormous Villainous Wealth or Primal Surge. Chances are, we already lost, just not yet, if anyone resolves any of them and i don't need to waste my time sitting through that.
3. Fairness:
If anyone wants to scoop before the game is won/lost allegedly, i expect them to do so in a fair fashion. Denying triggers/cast from others libraries/hands/graveyards will not go well with me and i will try my best to convince the rest of the table to proceed as if that spite scoop never happened - even if that requires changing targets and/or attacks.
Maybe one or 2 players are focusing on us to 'have revenge' for past games, and that is ok
I'd disagree and consider this an epitome of bad sportsmanship. Holding grudges over matches warps gameplay, hence, may obliterate any fun that could've come out of a normal game.
Curiously, a lot of the 'fairness' of the concede can be linked to the amount of salt visible on the conceding player's face/the table in general.
If the player is conceding because the game is down to two and it's obvious they can't win, there's very rarely any sour blood. (*looks at the top card of library at start of turn, shrugs* "Yep, you got it.")
...but if the concede is done out of spite or in response to that Bribery, it's generally pretty obvious there's lemons involved in the game already.
Personally, I don't mind if anyone concedes, although doing it just because you can does sour my opinion of you a touch if you're just doing it 'because I am not winning'. Last I personally checked, winning is not the sole goal of the format.
On my own side of things I tend to be waaaaay more on the 'let's see this to the end' side, even if I am obviously on the losing side. Granted, my love of Fogs, Batwing Brumes and Mirror Strikes of every variety might have something to do with this too...
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I concede when i know the game is over for me. (Sometime in mid combat when i am dying either way, i just want to give them the satisfaction of killing me.
I also concede when i feel i am being focused for no reason. Sure i have a powerful dragon deck but drive me nuts when i am being focused when there are much larger threats at the table. My Deck does two things, Play creatures and turn sideways, there is no combo or alternate win con, it is bringing your life to 0.
I will also concede when all options have been exhausted. When every answer i have in my deck is gone. Sure i may have board wipes but my dragon deck is not a recursion deck, when all my recursion spells (Which is very low) have been depleted, and have very little dragons that can close the game available in my deck, i know i cannot win and concede. It is not in poor taste or anything, i just know i lost and there is no reason to continue.
You can concede anytime you want. I think the question is really one of attitude.
Perhaps you can't see a path to victory anymore but it can be still an enjoyable experience then please stay at the table and play. If it stops being an enjoyable experience well then better concede, grab yourself a drink, get your head clear and perhaps we play another round.
I would not want to force someone to wait for his turn, or gain priority to scoop. Because let's face it, that never works. I mean what is the penalty for scooping out of turn? Loosing the game? 2 game ban from game night?
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I agree that sometimes people concede early and it is frustrating. When someone concedes in response to Bribery, it is unsportsmanlike. But they should still be allowed to do it. In the end, it is a game for fun, and if someone doesn't like having their personal possessions handled by other people, they can concede.
If we accept this, then what is the right answer? never cast Bribery on that player because he will scoop? or casting it knowing it will be player removal instead of the thing it should do?
If you regularly play with this person then you should discuss creative solutions to Bribery and other steal effects (for example, only the owner of the deck manipulates his cards, and you tell him what to do with the creature). Or, you play a different deck/swap out Bribery.
If you play with the same people frequently, you can and should make house rules, and if that person does not want others touching their cards, then you can either change or make them change.
My general thought regarding conceding is: don't be a douchehat about it.
The goal of every math should be to win it. If you scoop to spite someone then you have taken an action that is as far as possible from winning the game just in order to mess with someone else.
So basically you can scoop at any time but don't do it to mess with a bribery or a sword trigger etc.
Also, if you sit down to play a game you should aim to play the game and not jsut give up when something goes bad for you.
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In our playgroup we have the rule that conceding is fine as long as it's your turn for the Obvious reasons as discussed many times before.
Though last time we sat down, i've neglected this rule.
One player cast a Obliterate mid/late game and while everybody was rebuilding, i chose to keep easy to cast green cards and discarded a bunch of harder to cast spells in the proces, hoping to eventually draw into some green mana i.e. the main (ramp/fixing)color of the deck.
When i finally did draw Windswept Heath after some swamps i found out Temple Garden was my last green manasource left in the library.
Then, when the same player threathened to do the same thing again, i countered with "i'll go make some snacks". so he cast Ruination
In this particular situation, there was no way i could win or even play my game, nor could the others. I opted for a total concede and let him have it, shuffle and start over. We did, but i did keep my end of the bargain and fixed snacks
Let's be clear abount one thing. We don't do bans, nor veto's. There are times this results in feel bad situations like above.
Is conceding fair in those cases? i can be viewed as win-con from the perspective of the other player.
Other players have no business forcing you to sit at a table and play a game with them for a second longer than you want to.
Nobody is talking about "forcing" anyone to anything. I am talking about good behaviour, sportsmanship, not ruining the game for your friends (I am not talking about MOL).
[quote from="Alexev »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/808982-talk-it-is-conceading-fair-play-to-you?comment=3"][quote from="Dunharrow »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/808982-talk-it-is-conceading-fair-play-to-you?comment=2"]So, I once played a 4 player game and when we were down to me and the last opponent, I put gift of immortality on Kami of False Hope
If you regularly play with this person then you should discuss creative solutions to Bribery and other steal effects (for example, only the owner of the deck manipulates his cards, and you tell him what to do with the creature). Or, you play a different deck/swap out Bribery.
If you play with the same people frequently, you can and should make house rules, and if that person does not want others touching their cards, then you can either change or make them change.
The bribery example was a just that, an example, the player I am talking abut will conceade if he thinks he is being the focus of atacks, or if he thinks we should attack someone else, etc.
I could never support conceding only at sorcery speed as a rule, because I auto-concede to resolving cards like Thieves' Auction. Sure, I could just wait and concede on my turn, but that prevents the issue of me not wanting my cards mixed up with other players cards like that, due to some previous bad experiences (losing some very expensive cards to PuG players). As long as relevant triggers would otherwise go off (example, attacking someone with effects that give card draw or life gain on damage), concede whenever. It's one less person to worry about for the win.
I played a game last night using a "I steal all the *****" type deck. A player conceded and it sort of screwed me over by causing me to lost his Kambal (which I really wanted because I was at low life), his mindstone (dropping me from 7 to 6 Mana, which was significant because I had like 3 different things to cast for 7), and removing an utter end that Jeleva could have cast. He conceded not because of what I was doing, but because a Meren player got Raziketh out. I was a bit miffed because if he didn't concede I could have immediately answered Raziketh and I had to burn cyclonic rift without overloading it just to buy a turn. But I understood him quitting in that situation, because he thought it was over, and was only annoyed that he didn't realize that I was about to get rid of Raziketh before he could search out a combo. I still ended up winning because I got my 7th land, and I would have been a lot more annoyed had I lost because he quit. But that's a risk you take when you rely on using other people's *****.
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Other players have no business forcing you to sit at a table and play a game with them for a second longer than you want to.
Nobody is talking about "forcing" anyone to anything. I am talking about good behaviour, sportsmanship, not ruining the game for your friends (I am not talking about MOL).
Declaring that someone should only be allowed to leave the game at a speed other than whenever for any reason is doing that and potentially putting people into very bad situations, regardless of the original intention of this.
It is why I am very wary and skeptical of trying to rigorously define any kind of standard that people will assume is true.
Threatening to scoop is a viable tactical option and removing it makes the game worse.
Threatening to scoop makes the game miserable for other people, why would you do that in a table with friends? because doing it in a table of random people in your LGS the only thing that willa complish is that they killed you first and dont get invited anymore (at last if I am in that table)
I could never support conceding only at sorcery speed as a rule, because I auto-concede to resolving cards like Thieve's Auction. Sure, I could just wait and concede on my turn, but that prevents the issue of me not wanting my cards mixed up with other players cards like that, due to some previous bad experiences (losing some very expensive cards to PuG players). As long as relevant triggers would otherwise go off (example, attacking someone with effects that give card draw or life gain on damage), concede whenever. It's one less person to worry about for the win.
I can understand conceading in response to Thieves' Auction (I wouldn't do it but I understand why), but conceading at instant speed to deny the life gain or card draw of an attacker seems unaceptable to me.
If player 1 is atacking player 2, and player 1 concedes so player 2 dont get the card draw, life gain or even a wincon I will talk to player 3 to count as if the concesion was invalid, so even if the player 2 isnt there anymore I will ask player 3 to agree to grant the atacker all the benefits he would have if the player 2 hasn't scooped.
For me, that kind of scooping is abusing a 'game mechanic' in a very poor sportamnship way and is borderline cheating
Usually if lots of people scoop then you can start another game, which is good for sportsmanship.
My LGS had a Commander tournament with rounds starting at 6, 7, and 8. It was just me and a Karlov of the ghost council player at 6:55, and he was at 85 life. I conceded even though I was at 34 life and had a board prescience(not as good as his) so he could get his prize for the 6:00 round and we could play in the 7:00 round. Since then I’ve added Sorin Markov to my deck.
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If it ends the game (either because you were the 2nd to last player, or because everyone except one conceded at once) it's always fine. I hate decks that spent 20 minutes storming off or whatever. Unless I think you might fail, I'm not interested in sitting through your boring combo. It's a multiplayer game. Try building a deck that's not miserable for everyone except you.
Outside of that, whatever the table agrees to is fine by me. There are strategic benefits to tactical scooping, but tbh I never bother. Just not worth the grumping for the tiny win% add.
Threatening to scoop is a viable tactical option and removing it makes the game worse.
Threatening to scoop makes the game miserable for other people, why would you do that in a table with friends? because doing it in a table of random people in your LGS the only thing that willa complish is that they killed you first and dont get invited anymore (at last if I am in that table)
Makes the game miserable? How? You have driven a player to a point where his only viable option is to concede at an inopportune time for other players. If anything the guy scooping is the most miserable here.
I can understand conceading in response to Thieves' Auction (I wouldn't do it but I understand why), but conceading at instant speed to deny the life gain or card draw of an attacker seems unaceptable to me.
If player 1 is atacking player 2, and player 1 concedes so player 2 dont get the card draw, life gain or even a wincon I will talk to player 3 to count as if the concesion was invalid, so even if the player 2 isnt there anymore I will ask player 3 to agree to grant the atacker all the benefits he would have if the player 2 hasn't scooped.
For me, that kind of scooping is abusing a 'game mechanic' in a very poor sportmanship way and is borderline cheating
You are advocating here that you actually cheat. I think "actually cheating" -sportmanship is little worse than "playing the game according to the rules" -sportmanship.
You are advocating here that you actually cheat. I think "actually cheating" -sportmanship is little worse than "playing the game according to the rules" -sportmanship.
People who cheat don't deserve to play this game.
Sorry my natal tongue is not english and I didn't understood exactly what you are saying, can you rephrase this sentence?
I said, that if you attack me with a 6/6 lifelinker and I concede before damage just to prevent you from gaining life, it is bordeline cheating and in my playgroup even this is not allowed, is poor sportmanship, I have never sufer that kind of bad behavior even in a PUG game on my LGS but I can assure you that if I am ever seated with a player that actually do this kind of things, that would be the last time I play in the same table
I find it completely frustrating in multiplayer games when people concede alone. If Its 1v1v1 and 2 of us are locked out and go "yeah, my deck has no answers" then, yeah, concede. But when 1 person conceding makes it so that now I'm the only target and completely eliminates my chances of doing anything? Frustrating.
I also dislike when someone concedes and it makes me lose a stolen permanently. You're screwing me over through consequences of the game. Similarly, if you concede before my lifelinker can do damage? Screw you.
EDIT: In response to illakunsaa, I completely disagree. You're saying its better to play poor rules? And calling house rules "cheating?" I'm sorry for your playgroup... When I win, I want to win because I played better, smarter. When I lose I want it to be because I didn't. I don't want to lose because some sore player concedes to screw me over. That isn't fun or strategic. You're taking the planning out of the game.
Conceding is someone saying "I'm upset I'm losing, I don't want anyone else having fun if I'm not." And that's what the game is about. Having fun. For everyone.
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If you gotta leave you gotta leave go whenever.
If you don't have fun and your leaving has little to no impact on the game concede.
If you CLEARLY don't have a way to win (As in out in a few rounds due to no outs and other peoples outs just delay the inevitable) cencession is fine.
If You leaving would have a big impact on the game and you still have a chance to win, if you want to quit at least give a heads up.
(So no stuff like stay in wait for the attack against you and then leave without saying that you will to that) This can be considered a "tactical concession" (If you attack me i will concede)
I think thats fine even though I would not consider that a "tactical" move because I fail to see how that Improves your chance of winning.
Keep in mind that in PUGs especially Online it takes time to set up and find people and If you are prone to early concessions you are probably viewed in a negative light as you just wasted their time.
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I want to talk about the 'moral' aspects of conceding and if it is or is not a good practice
I think conceding is a 'bad player's' choice (bad not for skill reasons) and these are my thoughts abut it.
Sometimes in some games we will want it to end because it is looking bad for us, one or more opponents just focuses on us, or we are mana screw, or we misplayed a lot or any other reason that is taking the fun away from us.
I know the feeling, I have been there a lot of times and I will be there a lot more, but no matter hw bad is the game for me, no matter how much I want to concede I don't do it for these reasons
1. It is a game we play with friends, so, we should have our focus on having fun altogether, if I am the victim of a focus by two players and I rage-quit the game, I will leave the table, but the bad feeling will stay at the table, so why ruining the game for the other players?
2. The game is not over for us until our life total get's 0, so we can try to overcome the problems, maybe winning sometimes will be very out of our reach in some games, but we can try, we can learn, we can take the opportunity to study how our deck behaves against such games and how to improve it.
3, Maybe one or 2 players are focusing on us to 'have revenge' for past games, and that is ok too, I remember a session were I won 2 games in a row, one player was very salty because I killed him first at 1st game, then he 'side boarded' tons of counter spells with the sole focus of not letting me play and I won the 2nd game too and other player got salted, so when we got to the 3rd game, I knew they will be focusing me, I got mana screw, I had 5 lands at turn 7 and one of my opponents played Terastodon aiming for 3 of my 5 lands, so it was pretty much game over for me, but I didn't concede, I play to the end working hard to overcome the situation, to survive long enough and try to win, I din't won, I was killed first, they had the blood they wanted and we all had fun, no bad feeling at my side of the table.
So, if the players are focusing you because you won too many games, or you commander is scary or any other reason, just suck it up
4. Some times some one will cast Bribery on us, nobody want's our opponents having our stuff, but conceding to an effect like this, or a annihilator X or any other bad stuff just ruins the game for your friends.
What is the deal then? The opponents can't target us bribery or similar effects because 'in response' we will concede and it will be a wasted attack or a 'counterspell like'?. For me this kind of behavior show bad sportsmanship to say the least.
5. Let people do their magic, if you are in a 1v1 against the last player, and he will attack us for lethal, let him do it, it wont take more than 30 seconds, do you feel better saying 'concede' than 'lose'? is that it?
So many times I saw that a player gets his engine going, he is getting the upper hand against the last one, the last player knows the game is not in his favor, so he concedes, well that is also bad sportsmanship, because you may find a way to overcome it, and even if you don't, the winning player build his or her deck to do some magic and it is doing it, by conceding 2 or 3 turns earlier we are taking away his fun
What are your thoughts?
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Not only is this fair play, this is preferable to playing a long game where I slowly kill him since he already knows he cannot win.
I agree that sometimes people concede early and it is frustrating. When someone concedes in response to Bribery, it is unsportsmanlike. But they should still be allowed to do it. In the end, it is a game for fun, and if someone doesn't like having their personal possessions handled by other people, they can concede.
If someone is conceding out of spite - for example, you are attacking with your general for 21 commander damage with lifelink, and they concede before damage is dealt so you don't gain life - this is not something that should be accepted in a playgroup.
But conceding because you know you cannot win and you want to play a game with someone else or go get food.... whatever the reason... this is fine. If you can't win why sit there?
I get how you feel because I am like you, but I have learned to accept that sometimes the game ends not because someone won but because someone felt they lost. I am constantly surprised by how early people concede in other formats (I mainly play draft). I countered a Flametongue Kavu on mtgo today and my opponent scooped. He was at 20 life.
It may be less satisfying that a grindy long-lasting game, but it is just as valid.
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If we accept this, then what is the right answer? never cast Bribery on that player because he will scoop? or casting it knowing it will be player removal instead of the thing it should do?
This is different, If I am playing a monogreen and you cast Iona, shield of emeria for green and I have not scourge from existence in my deck or nevyral disk, then it is ok to say that and concede if we are the last one , but trust me, If the game is not 1v1 and you cast Iona for my mono color I will be still in the game and wont conceade
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EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
1. Timing:
Whenever possible, i'm a 100% pro "concede at sorcery speed", with the few exceptions being very drawn out combo offs that are obvious to succeed, infinite turns etc. This way several possible feel bads can be avoided.
2. Reasoning:
Yes, the usual instances of losing may be 0 life, 10 poison counters, drawing from an empty library and 21 commander damage, but i don't mind (others) conceeding, if it is either highly unlikely to turn things around or could be as unpleasant/drawn out as it gets.
In most cases i won't sit through an ulted Narset Transcendent, Jace, Architect of Thoughts' -8, an enormous Villainous Wealth or Primal Surge. Chances are, we already lost, just not yet, if anyone resolves any of them and i don't need to waste my time sitting through that.
3. Fairness:
If anyone wants to scoop before the game is won/lost allegedly, i expect them to do so in a fair fashion. Denying triggers/cast from others libraries/hands/graveyards will not go well with me and i will try my best to convince the rest of the table to proceed as if that spite scoop never happened - even if that requires changing targets and/or attacks. I'd disagree and consider this an epitome of bad sportsmanship. Holding grudges over matches warps gameplay, hence, may obliterate any fun that could've come out of a normal game.
If the player is conceding because the game is down to two and it's obvious they can't win, there's very rarely any sour blood. (*looks at the top card of library at start of turn, shrugs* "Yep, you got it.")
...but if the concede is done out of spite or in response to that Bribery, it's generally pretty obvious there's lemons involved in the game already.
Personally, I don't mind if anyone concedes, although doing it just because you can does sour my opinion of you a touch if you're just doing it 'because I am not winning'. Last I personally checked, winning is not the sole goal of the format.
On my own side of things I tend to be waaaaay more on the 'let's see this to the end' side, even if I am obviously on the losing side. Granted, my love of Fogs, Batwing Brumes and Mirror Strikes of every variety might have something to do with this too...
I also concede when i feel i am being focused for no reason. Sure i have a powerful dragon deck but drive me nuts when i am being focused when there are much larger threats at the table. My Deck does two things, Play creatures and turn sideways, there is no combo or alternate win con, it is bringing your life to 0.
I will also concede when all options have been exhausted. When every answer i have in my deck is gone. Sure i may have board wipes but my dragon deck is not a recursion deck, when all my recursion spells (Which is very low) have been depleted, and have very little dragons that can close the game available in my deck, i know i cannot win and concede. It is not in poor taste or anything, i just know i lost and there is no reason to continue.
Perhaps you can't see a path to victory anymore but it can be still an enjoyable experience then please stay at the table and play. If it stops being an enjoyable experience well then better concede, grab yourself a drink, get your head clear and perhaps we play another round.
I would not want to force someone to wait for his turn, or gain priority to scoop. Because let's face it, that never works. I mean what is the penalty for scooping out of turn? Loosing the game? 2 game ban from game night?
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If you regularly play with this person then you should discuss creative solutions to Bribery and other steal effects (for example, only the owner of the deck manipulates his cards, and you tell him what to do with the creature). Or, you play a different deck/swap out Bribery.
If you play with the same people frequently, you can and should make house rules, and if that person does not want others touching their cards, then you can either change or make them change.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
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My general thought regarding conceding is: don't be a douchehat about it.
The goal of every math should be to win it. If you scoop to spite someone then you have taken an action that is as far as possible from winning the game just in order to mess with someone else.
So basically you can scoop at any time but don't do it to mess with a bribery or a sword trigger etc.
Also, if you sit down to play a game you should aim to play the game and not jsut give up when something goes bad for you.
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Though last time we sat down, i've neglected this rule.
One player cast a Obliterate mid/late game and while everybody was rebuilding, i chose to keep easy to cast green cards and discarded a bunch of harder to cast spells in the proces, hoping to eventually draw into some green mana i.e. the main (ramp/fixing)color of the deck.
When i finally did draw Windswept Heath after some swamps i found out Temple Garden was my last green manasource left in the library.
Then, when the same player threathened to do the same thing again, i countered with "i'll go make some snacks". so he cast Ruination
In this particular situation, there was no way i could win or even play my game, nor could the others. I opted for a total concede and let him have it, shuffle and start over. We did, but i did keep my end of the bargain and fixed snacks
Let's be clear abount one thing. We don't do bans, nor veto's. There are times this results in feel bad situations like above.
Is conceding fair in those cases? i can be viewed as win-con from the perspective of the other player.
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Nobody is talking about "forcing" anyone to anything. I am talking about good behaviour, sportsmanship, not ruining the game for your friends (I am not talking about MOL).
The bribery example was a just that, an example, the player I am talking abut will conceade if he thinks he is being the focus of atacks, or if he thinks we should attack someone else, etc.
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
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Declaring that someone should only be allowed to leave the game at a speed other than whenever for any reason is doing that and potentially putting people into very bad situations, regardless of the original intention of this.
It is why I am very wary and skeptical of trying to rigorously define any kind of standard that people will assume is true.
Threatening to scoop makes the game miserable for other people, why would you do that in a table with friends? because doing it in a table of random people in your LGS the only thing that willa complish is that they killed you first and dont get invited anymore (at last if I am in that table)
I can understand conceading in response to Thieves' Auction (I wouldn't do it but I understand why), but conceading at instant speed to deny the life gain or card draw of an attacker seems unaceptable to me.
If player 1 is atacking player 2, and player 1 concedes so player 2 dont get the card draw, life gain or even a wincon I will talk to player 3 to count as if the concesion was invalid, so even if the player 2 isnt there anymore I will ask player 3 to agree to grant the atacker all the benefits he would have if the player 2 hasn't scooped.
For me, that kind of scooping is abusing a 'game mechanic' in a very poor sportamnship way and is borderline cheating
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
My LGS had a Commander tournament with rounds starting at 6, 7, and 8. It was just me and a Karlov of the ghost council player at 6:55, and he was at 85 life. I conceded even though I was at 34 life and had a board prescience(not as good as his) so he could get his prize for the 6:00 round and we could play in the 7:00 round. Since then I’ve added Sorin Markov to my deck.
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RW Blood MoonRW
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Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
If it ends the game (either because you were the 2nd to last player, or because everyone except one conceded at once) it's always fine. I hate decks that spent 20 minutes storming off or whatever. Unless I think you might fail, I'm not interested in sitting through your boring combo. It's a multiplayer game. Try building a deck that's not miserable for everyone except you.
Outside of that, whatever the table agrees to is fine by me. There are strategic benefits to tactical scooping, but tbh I never bother. Just not worth the grumping for the tiny win% add.
Scooping to bribery is just dumb.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The topic is about when you concede not being the last one, is about concesions when there are 2 or more opponents at the table.
Scooping to bribery is dumb, so is scooping because you think someone is focusing you (whetever is true or not)
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
Makes the game miserable? How? You have driven a player to a point where his only viable option is to concede at an inopportune time for other players. If anything the guy scooping is the most miserable here.
You are advocating here that you actually cheat. I think "actually cheating" -sportmanship is little worse than "playing the game according to the rules" -sportmanship.
People who cheat don't deserve to play this game.
Sorry my natal tongue is not english and I didn't understood exactly what you are saying, can you rephrase this sentence?
I said, that if you attack me with a 6/6 lifelinker and I concede before damage just to prevent you from gaining life, it is bordeline cheating and in my playgroup even this is not allowed, is poor sportmanship, I have never sufer that kind of bad behavior even in a PUG game on my LGS but I can assure you that if I am ever seated with a player that actually do this kind of things, that would be the last time I play in the same table
EDH: RWB Edgar Markov The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Oloro, Ageless ascetic The current updated decklist is here
EDH: UWG Phelddagrif, The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign The current updated decklist is here
EDH: WUB Alela, Artful provocateur The current updated decklist is here
EDH: GB Hapatra, vizier of poisons The current updated decklist is here
I also dislike when someone concedes and it makes me lose a stolen permanently. You're screwing me over through consequences of the game. Similarly, if you concede before my lifelinker can do damage? Screw you.
EDIT: In response to illakunsaa, I completely disagree. You're saying its better to play poor rules? And calling house rules "cheating?" I'm sorry for your playgroup... When I win, I want to win because I played better, smarter. When I lose I want it to be because I didn't. I don't want to lose because some sore player concedes to screw me over. That isn't fun or strategic. You're taking the planning out of the game.
Conceding is someone saying "I'm upset I'm losing, I don't want anyone else having fun if I'm not." And that's what the game is about. Having fun. For everyone.
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URGTemur ScapeshiftGRU
EDH
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UBGSidisi, Brood Tyrant ReanimatorGBU
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WUBZur RebelsBUW
WUBErtai CursesBUW
WRFiresong and Sunspeaker Spell SlingerRW
Conceding (especially out of spite with no attempt at strategy) when people weren't aware of the possibility is the problem.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
If you gotta leave you gotta leave go whenever.
If you don't have fun and your leaving has little to no impact on the game concede.
If you CLEARLY don't have a way to win (As in out in a few rounds due to no outs and other peoples outs just delay the inevitable) cencession is fine.
If You leaving would have a big impact on the game and you still have a chance to win, if you want to quit at least give a heads up.
(So no stuff like stay in wait for the attack against you and then leave without saying that you will to that) This can be considered a "tactical concession" (If you attack me i will concede)
I think thats fine even though I would not consider that a "tactical" move because I fail to see how that Improves your chance of winning.
Keep in mind that in PUGs especially Online it takes time to set up and find people and If you are prone to early concessions you are probably viewed in a negative light as you just wasted their time.