Mono-green control decks are atypical for good reason. It's not green's slice of the color pie. But if you're going to build it, you may as well start with a card advantage engine in the command zone.
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Interesting stuff. Quick note, Myth unbound is spelled wrong in the decklist
So it appears to me that this deck is a bit light on card advantage for a control deck, even with some CA in the command zone. Obviously it's in green's color pie but the actual card advantage is very focused on the yard, which is very vulnerable. Makes me want to consider some more sources of CA that don't require the yard, things like Harmonize.
And a lot of the control effects seem hard to find (lots of instants/sorceries/enchantments) - vs. playing more creature and land control effects, which seem more easy to exploit with green's ability to find them.
There is a bit of a lands subtheme for sure, with glacial chasm, maze, and such, but I think I would go heavier on this and lighter on stuff that is harder to find and lower impact.
Some specific cut/adds and cards I would consider:
* collecter ouphe or bane of progress for Titania's song
* Chord of Calling for anything; the ability to get a creature at instant speed is vital, even if it costs
* consider playing sakura-tribe scout effects as additional ways to get some extra land drops early, and also wayward swordtooth - these are likely better than summer bloom and the instant speed one at least also creates some sick plays like playing Glacial Chasm as an instant. It's tough because they are functional card disadvantage but at the very least I think Sakura-tribe scout is a clear upgrade for Summer Bloom most of the time.
* I am iffy on the other two enchantment control cards - cyclone and tornado. My instinct is to say that they are probably worse than other options but I really don't know.
* I have never really liked oblivion ring effects in EDH. I would really strongly consider cutting Song of the Dryads for really almost anything else good. I get that it gets rid of problem commanders but I think Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker may do more work overall and be less prone to being card disadvantage when removed.
* Genesis would probably do a lot of work in this deck at the pace it's looking to play.
But honestly I will cop to not having a complete understanding of this deck. I really like the fog spam effects and the lands subtheme. It's really hard to find a complete control deck in green.
Oh, something I forgot but wanted to add is I would consider Ohran Viper. That was always really fun for me in greenish control decks. Great blocker, draws tons of cards if left alone.
OHHH
Props on Ifh Biff. I had an Emperor Specific deck that was WG Spirit Link + Ifh-Biff Efreet back in 1993 or so, and it was always a frigging house. Man I loved that card. I might ahve to see if I can pick one up overseas or something Still love that art too.
To answer some of your overall questions, the deck tries to establish a massive board of lands, while fogging and keeping control. The endgame tends to be good ol' Ifh-Bíff Efreet paired with Darksteel Plate. And maybe Glacial Chasm.
And it's very rare that don't get to draw cards. The main thing to tutor for early game is Tireless Tracker, and that guys pulls so much work it's unbelieveable. But yeah, so does Nissa, Vastwood Seer. Most people will kill a planeswalker when they see one, but they'll soon learn otherwise with Nissa. When she enters from the cz, she's nets you a land and one card after she flips.
Cyclone is an odd one. Sometimes when I cast it, it doesn't do much and people don't care. But other times it can be a most-kill for certain decks, mostly ones that goes wide. It can keep such decks in check until they find removal, and it puts a clock on the game, something I like when hitting every player with the Hurriances.
Tornado on the other hand is godlike. I don't think I'll ever find a replacement for it. Being able to destroy everything is so good in a control deck that don't have that many other options. And it only gets better when you pair it up with stuff like Seedborn Muse, Awakening and Power Conduit.
Same goes for Song of the Drayds. It can really shut some decks down that rely on their commander. It's harder to sac a land then it is to sac a creature. And enchantments can be hard to deal with for some decks. Same reason I'm playing Titania's Song, though I do strongly consider Collector Ouphe.
I get what you are saying about Summer Bloom, but I really like the burst it offers. 3 lands is a lot compared to 1, and when you can chain it with recursion it gets even nuttier.
Genesis used to be in the deck, but with all the recursion he felt too redundent, and I rarely wanted to pay his upkeep cost.
If I should go deeper in the lands theme, what lands would you suggest? I'm having a hard time going much lower then 18 basics when Vernal Bloom is a thing, but it could be cutted I guess.
Responses make sense. Tornado seems like it could be good with the untap effects especially. Pretty savage if it goes off. I'm iffy on whether it's better than a straight up stronger card independently but I guess getting muse is pretty easy.
The nice thing about Genesis vs. other recursion effects is his effect can't be countered and it's quite difficult to interact with in general.
Ancient Tomb is absolutely clutch with a 2G mana cost commander you want to run out asap most of the time. Makes a lot of hands keepable that would not otherwise be.
I might also consider Ulvenwald Hydra as a land tutor that block - feel like it's probably better than Reap and Sow most of the time.
Have you considered Bind? Over the course of a game there's a lot you can point it at, and it cantrips! Also nobody expects the green player to counter a PW ultimate.
Roger and I have discussed this deck back and forth a fair amount, as I have a similar build, and both of us have drawn some inspiration from aslidsiksoraksi's Nissa enchantress primer to build our own iterations.
Tornado by all accounts is pretty devastating. I don't run it myself purely because my engine is a little different (and I also don't have a copy), but I have it on good authority that it is pretty devastating.
If it were me building this I think I would go up two lands to 40 and add Blighted Woodland and Ancient Tomb. Maybe Vesuva for Blasted Landscape which I think is a bit excessive.
I removed Blighted Woodland from my build personally. It's very, very slow. I ended up with Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse, which paid off massively. I'd add Prismatic Vista too if I could afford it. With the land recursion sub theme, these ones really do get a lot of work done (I vaguely remember seeing more of a land recursion theme in Roger's build than mine, I could be wrong though). I also run Thespian's Stage, and honestly, a lot of the time it's very much corner case tech - purely because the bigger burst lands like Cradle, Nykthos and Itlimoc are all legendary. I like corner cases anyway, so it stays.
Ancient Tomb is absolutely clutch with a 2G mana cost commander you want to run out asap most of the time. Makes a lot of hands keepable that would not otherwise be.
The thing is, she's not quite the same as Azusa, Lost but Seeking in that you don't really want to drop her ASAP; you want to drop her when you can flip her right away, whether that's turn 3/4 or later - otherwise you might as well be running Civic Wayfinder. It's why a janky-ass land like Ghost Town or Drownyard Temple has some value in my list, because her transform might as well read 'landfall #7'. I definitely think Ancient Tomb would be a good add, but it's something you'd look to drop once you've got your engine in 3rd gear rather than first.
I can also vouch for Song of the Dryads. Being able to hit literally anything is fantastic for a great cost, especially with green typically having trouble with specific creature destruction. Oftentimes for me it just gives me enough space to get momentum going even if it does get removed, but a lot of the time its something people just...don't see coming.
Crystal Vein - I've found this really really good - it enters untapped, sacs for 2 early game, and you can reuse it for landfall later on. It's Ancient Tomb for the destitute. It's also way better than Havenwood Battleground, green mana be damned.
Buried Ruin - You don't have many rocks to protect, but it's nice to have options when everything else fails.
How has Wave of Vitriol worked out for you? I've talked about how devastating it is for me, I'm interested to know how it has worked out here. Seems like it could be risky - it is for me too, but there's a good chance it could absolutely wreck face too.
With my focus shifting towards MTG Nexus i'd like these removed from the future deck pool. Thx.
You're cool. I stopped updating this one about when Nexus went live, just a little too real life busy at the moment to restart a project like this. I'll adjust the thread title accordingly.
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rogerandover: Nissa- Mono Green Control
Mono-green control decks are atypical for good reason. It's not green's slice of the color pie. But if you're going to build it, you may as well start with a card advantage engine in the command zone.
So it appears to me that this deck is a bit light on card advantage for a control deck, even with some CA in the command zone. Obviously it's in green's color pie but the actual card advantage is very focused on the yard, which is very vulnerable. Makes me want to consider some more sources of CA that don't require the yard, things like Harmonize.
And a lot of the control effects seem hard to find (lots of instants/sorceries/enchantments) - vs. playing more creature and land control effects, which seem more easy to exploit with green's ability to find them.
There is a bit of a lands subtheme for sure, with glacial chasm, maze, and such, but I think I would go heavier on this and lighter on stuff that is harder to find and lower impact.
Some specific cut/adds and cards I would consider:
* collecter ouphe or bane of progress for Titania's song
* Chord of Calling for anything; the ability to get a creature at instant speed is vital, even if it costs
* consider playing sakura-tribe scout effects as additional ways to get some extra land drops early, and also wayward swordtooth - these are likely better than summer bloom and the instant speed one at least also creates some sick plays like playing Glacial Chasm as an instant. It's tough because they are functional card disadvantage but at the very least I think Sakura-tribe scout is a clear upgrade for Summer Bloom most of the time.
* I am iffy on the other two enchantment control cards - cyclone and tornado. My instinct is to say that they are probably worse than other options but I really don't know.
* I have never really liked oblivion ring effects in EDH. I would really strongly consider cutting Song of the Dryads for really almost anything else good. I get that it gets rid of problem commanders but I think Pithing Needle or Phyrexian Revoker may do more work overall and be less prone to being card disadvantage when removed.
* Genesis would probably do a lot of work in this deck at the pace it's looking to play.
But honestly I will cop to not having a complete understanding of this deck. I really like the fog spam effects and the lands subtheme. It's really hard to find a complete control deck in green.
Oh, something I forgot but wanted to add is I would consider Ohran Viper. That was always really fun for me in greenish control decks. Great blocker, draws tons of cards if left alone.
OHHH
Props on Ifh Biff. I had an Emperor Specific deck that was WG Spirit Link + Ifh-Biff Efreet back in 1993 or so, and it was always a frigging house. Man I loved that card. I might ahve to see if I can pick one up overseas or something Still love that art too.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
To answer some of your overall questions, the deck tries to establish a massive board of lands, while fogging and keeping control. The endgame tends to be good ol' Ifh-Bíff Efreet paired with Darksteel Plate. And maybe Glacial Chasm.
And it's very rare that don't get to draw cards. The main thing to tutor for early game is Tireless Tracker, and that guys pulls so much work it's unbelieveable. But yeah, so does Nissa, Vastwood Seer. Most people will kill a planeswalker when they see one, but they'll soon learn otherwise with Nissa. When she enters from the cz, she's nets you a land and one card after she flips.
Cyclone is an odd one. Sometimes when I cast it, it doesn't do much and people don't care. But other times it can be a most-kill for certain decks, mostly ones that goes wide. It can keep such decks in check until they find removal, and it puts a clock on the game, something I like when hitting every player with the Hurriances.
Tornado on the other hand is godlike. I don't think I'll ever find a replacement for it. Being able to destroy everything is so good in a control deck that don't have that many other options. And it only gets better when you pair it up with stuff like Seedborn Muse, Awakening and Power Conduit.
Same goes for Song of the Drayds. It can really shut some decks down that rely on their commander. It's harder to sac a land then it is to sac a creature. And enchantments can be hard to deal with for some decks. Same reason I'm playing Titania's Song, though I do strongly consider Collector Ouphe.
I get what you are saying about Summer Bloom, but I really like the burst it offers. 3 lands is a lot compared to 1, and when you can chain it with recursion it gets even nuttier.
Genesis used to be in the deck, but with all the recursion he felt too redundent, and I rarely wanted to pay his upkeep cost.
If I should go deeper in the lands theme, what lands would you suggest? I'm having a hard time going much lower then 18 basics when Vernal Bloom is a thing, but it could be cutted I guess.
The nice thing about Genesis vs. other recursion effects is his effect can't be countered and it's quite difficult to interact with in general.
If it were me building this I think I would go up two lands to 40 and add Blighted Woodland and Ancient Tomb. Maybe Vesuva for Blasted Landscape which I think is a bit excessive.
Ancient Tomb is absolutely clutch with a 2G mana cost commander you want to run out asap most of the time. Makes a lot of hands keepable that would not otherwise be.
I might also consider Ulvenwald Hydra as a land tutor that block - feel like it's probably better than Reap and Sow most of the time.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Dragonlover
Lathliss Dragon Queen - All dragons all the time!
Mono-White Mono-Legends
Ruhan of the Fomori
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
Storrev, Devkarin Lich
Tornado by all accounts is pretty devastating. I don't run it myself purely because my engine is a little different (and I also don't have a copy), but I have it on good authority that it is pretty devastating.
I removed Blighted Woodland from my build personally. It's very, very slow. I ended up with Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse, which paid off massively. I'd add Prismatic Vista too if I could afford it. With the land recursion sub theme, these ones really do get a lot of work done (I vaguely remember seeing more of a land recursion theme in Roger's build than mine, I could be wrong though). I also run Thespian's Stage, and honestly, a lot of the time it's very much corner case tech - purely because the bigger burst lands like Cradle, Nykthos and Itlimoc are all legendary. I like corner cases anyway, so it stays.
The thing is, she's not quite the same as Azusa, Lost but Seeking in that you don't really want to drop her ASAP; you want to drop her when you can flip her right away, whether that's turn 3/4 or later - otherwise you might as well be running Civic Wayfinder. It's why a janky-ass land like Ghost Town or Drownyard Temple has some value in my list, because her transform might as well read 'landfall #7'. I definitely think Ancient Tomb would be a good add, but it's something you'd look to drop once you've got your engine in 3rd gear rather than first.
I can also vouch for Song of the Dryads. Being able to hit literally anything is fantastic for a great cost, especially with green typically having trouble with specific creature destruction. Oftentimes for me it just gives me enough space to get momentum going even if it does get removed, but a lot of the time its something people just...don't see coming.
Land recommendations from me:
How has Wave of Vitriol worked out for you? I've talked about how devastating it is for me, I'm interested to know how it has worked out here. Seems like it could be risky - it is for me too, but there's a good chance it could absolutely wreck face too.
You're cool. I stopped updating this one about when Nexus went live, just a little too real life busy at the moment to restart a project like this. I'll adjust the thread title accordingly.