Yea, it's one of those "great in the specific niche" sort of cards that happens to suffer because it exists on the reserved list (and it's a named card, so it makes it harder to reprint anyways).
But yea honestly, i don't see any major missing pieces for that deck.. i imagine that it'd completely crush all of my decks (aside from possibly the blind seer, since i can do weird things with colours). But yea, Me likey!
I'm sure you'd do alright, you can pretty well see what I'm doing a mile away. Just stick an aura shards on me, ride that to victory 😂
I almost suggested the rest of the fast mana suite, but realized that they require colors in the deck to be of use. I really struggle to think of anything I believe I would do better.
I meant to suggest Hope.of Ghirapur here but I ended up doung it in the dck thread!
Anuway, how do you feel about adding more vehicles? Mobile Garrison has a nice untap ability, Skysovereign helps control the board and you have probably the only place where Consulate Dreadnought is playable(That's a plus by itself XD) Conqueror's Galleon flipped state looks very good for your deck too.
I almost suggested the rest of the fast mana suite, but realized that they require colors in the deck to be of use. I really struggle to think of anything I believe I would do better.
I think the only of the fast mana I'm not running is Mana Vault! That's a bit of personal taste as I consider Grim Monolith to be superior. Typically, I reserve Vault for decks than can play Welder and even then...I'm not totally cool with it. Probably my own historic bias playing a role here, no doubt.
I meant to suggest Hope.of Ghirapur here but I ended up doung it in the dck thread!
Anuway, how do you feel about adding more vehicles? Mobile Garrison has a nice untap ability, Skysovereign helps control the board and you have probably the only place where Consulate Dreadnought is playable(That's a plus by itself XD) Conqueror's Galleon flipped state looks very good for your deck too.
Hey, nice to see you over this way too! As I addressed HoG, let's take a look at the others.
Mobile Garrison feels like a usually but not strictly better Voltaic Servant and I like that. I'd play it, if I hadn't just removed the servant. Still, it's a useful effect that deserves to have my eye kept on it.
I don't think the Dreadnought is playable even here as it doesn't have evasion and I'm always better going into the red zone with Traxos, whom can kill in two hits, as opposed to a 7/11 that only my commander can reliably crew. If I needed more "generic fat", I think I'd be obligated to consider Ulamog's Crusher over this ship for similar purposes.
Lastly, I don't think there's anything wrong with the Galleon honestly. It's a perfectly serviceable, reasonable card, a great resource for someone without a Staff of Domination/Trading Post. But...I have both. I couldn't justify Galleon over one of these powerhouses, and I don't think I'd need a third one. Maybe. Though I suspect there's a case to be made for it over Endbringer, but this I feel is hardly an open-and-shut case. Hmmm.
Normally Skullclamp and friends love zombie decks, but what it loves seeing more than anything is a ton of sac outlets. Not sure if you want to go that route, although cards like Fanatical Devotion serve multiple purposes other than just being an excuse to off your own guys.
Other than that, it has the same strengths and weaknesses as any "critical mass of permanents" deck that I'm familiar with. Semi-resilient board states, lack of room for instant speed answers due to critical mass requirements, certain cards that are by definition win conditions of the deck.
Deck is inherently fair, which is fine. This is neither too terrifying nor a pushover, making it likely viable for most playgroups. This is something I can't say for my builds.
I used to have a Garza Zol build put together and after Varina was release, I thought about rebuilding it with her. I never got around to it, but I like what you have done with your deck. I too stayed away from Rooftop Storm in my deck but that was mostly to keep the deck more or less "fair". I do agree with your assessments on it as well.
How necessary do you think Eldrazi Monument has been so far? For me, it is always one of those cards that I can never decide if it is worth it or not even in a deck like this. I really prefer just keeping the pressure going and dropping a 5 drop that helps protect my board and buff creatures seems good, but it also seems that it takes away from loading up the Zombie army too.
I am not sure I like Festering Mummy as its effect seems weak. How has Aminatou been for you? That seems like an interesting inclusion. What are some of the better lines you have with her?
I will comment in your deck thread about potential card inclusions but on a final note, the card tag for Varina in your Deck tag is messed up since you forgot the comma
Hmm. I had the zombies bit going for about a year or so, so let's see if I still got that magic touch.
First things I see, is that I don't think you actually need Library or Tower (Reliquary). You're not really gaining anything by hording cards in hand, and in 3c nogreen I'm confident that colourless land would be better served as anything else. Path of Ancestry seems especially great. You could even Vesuva/Thespian's Stage it for extra scries. I also think the Coffers-borg strat is entirely overblown without green to fetch the other piece of the combo, and would often be better served by a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in this particular deck. Arcane Sanctum is still quite playable, as is Dromar's Cavern. Staying with mana, I think your rock suite is so low that it can't possibly behave in a reliable way, and you'd be better served going with a more stable Land Tax + Thawing Glaciers route. Additionally, I find Chromatic Lantern to be more of a builder's crutch than an actually useful mana rock, especially at the three drop. You're better than this, you don't need to rely on this one card to colour fix. Especially in a deck with a looting commander.
I don't understand the lack of tutours, especially Sidisi, Undead Vizier which is also on type and especially great with your Gravecrawler.
Your commander gives you a massive loot, but you're not rocking Patriarch's Bidding at the minimum or Living Death to supplement? Twilight's Call is a decent-ish replacement if the $20 on Bidding is too rich for you. And speaking of loot, Vengeful Pharaoh serves both as a card that doesn't mind being looted and tremendous disincentive to attacks.
What do you do if Varina never gets to field a sizable attack? Read the Runes is a powerful loot at instant speed, and also functions as a sac outlet with all your dies triggers. And since you like to sac dudes for value, I question the distinct lack of both Nim Deathmantle and Mimic Vat. I know all the rage nowadays is Mirage Mirror...but the Vat still gets a lot of mileage, and will only continue that trend as more ETB dudes are printed. And speaking of sac outlets, Corpse Harvester is pretty decent-ish though it's buy-in is fairly high however Killing Wave is still a card that exists (pay 0 then sac your guys in such a way to maximize your triggers).
I think Mikaeus is over-costed for what he provides without his obvious combos. I'd either add Trike & Ballista or cut him entirely. I'd be happier here with just the humble Gempalm Polluter.
There's a few lords you're missing here, of note I find the lack of Zombie Master and Lord of the Undead unthinkable. Coffin Queen is also a pretty slick zombie too.........
Mind's Eye may be the gold standard draw for colourless, but I'm 90% confident you're gonna draw far more via Dark Prophecy. Especially with your Tombstone Stairwell (btw, love that card, it is sosososo good!)
What is Solemnity doing? Looks like a lot of anti-synergy with a chunk of your own deck. I'd rethink that card's inclusion here.
Please do not hate me for ripping into this so hard. I promise I really am nicer than I come off. :/
This is a really good idea. Gonna leave my feedback directly in the threads to be more appropriately co-located. Pardon me if the feedback is a bit on the clunky side.
toctheyounger77 and I have gone back and forth about Varina zombies, but its always been within the context of my build. Its fun to actually dive into his version and see just how different two decks can be even with a similar theme and the same commander.
2) How has Endless Ranks of the Dead been working for you? I found that the card was seemingl good in theory, but way too slow and inefficient in practice.
3) What do you think about potentially replacing Graf Harvest with Oversold Cemetery? I've never been a fan of Graf Harvest because it requires creatures in the graveyard (as opposed to Varina that can exile anything), and you have plenty of guys worth recurring that are more powerful than a 2/2 Zombie token.
Damn, missed a ton of feedback over Easter weekend - I tend to turtle shell a little over the long weekends, sorry for the lack of response. Quick capsule responses before I dive into what got left on the decklist itself:
How necessary do you think Eldrazi Monument has been so far? For me, it is always one of those cards that I can never decide if it is worth it or not even in a deck like this. I really prefer just keeping the pressure going and dropping a 5 drop that helps protect my board and buff creatures seems good, but it also seems that it takes away from loading up the Zombie army too.
Monument has been really decent for me. It pairs quite well with Varina's triggers, Gravecrawler, Open the Graves and some of the reanimation I run here. It's not always the right choice to cast, but when it drops it's been a really nice stabiliser.
I am not sure I like Festering Mummy as its effect seems weak. How has Aminatou been for you? That seems like an interesting inclusion. What are some of the better lines you have with her?
The mummy, yes I agree. It's a weak effect, but mostly why it's here is to fill out the lower end of my curve. I've found it really important to have bodies on the field early, and predominantly that's why it's in here. Aminatou, the Fateshifter is mostly here for her blink. The topdeck function isn't, it's sort of a Varina trigger mini, but she's mostly here to reset counters on things like Tombstone Stairwell, Mystic Remora, and the other walkers I run here.
I will comment in your deck thread about potential card inclusions but on a final note, the card tag for Varina in your Deck tag is messed up since you forgot the comma Smile
First things I see, is that I don't think you actually need Library or Tower (Reliquary). You're not really gaining anything by hording cards in hand, and in 3c nogreen I'm confident that colourless land would be better served as anything else. Path of Ancestry seems especially great. You could even Vesuva/Thespian's Stage it for extra scries. I also think the Coffers-borg strat is entirely overblown without green to fetch the other piece of the combo, and would often be better served by a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in this particular deck. Arcane Sanctum is still quite playable, as is Dromar's Cavern. Staying with mana, I think your rock suite is so low that it can't possibly behave in a reliable way, and you'd be better served going with a more stable Land Tax + Thawing Glaciers route. Additionally, I find Chromatic Lantern to be more of a builder's crutch than an actually useful mana rock, especially at the three drop. You're better than this, you don't need to rely on this one card to colour fix. Especially in a deck with a looting commander.
I sort of got convinced to try Library of Leng, and I tend to agree here. Hand size modifiers have been pretty lackluster here, and it means I've got less ways to drop things into the yard to reanimate. I could definitely see dropping both of these, as Tower often ends up doing nothing not just here, but in a lot of decks. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I struggle to justify in a 3c deck, but I get what you're saying with the Urborg/Coffers suggestion. Honestly, manabase is the one part of this deck that has struggled more than anything else - sadly it's also the most expensive, and I won't likely ever be able to afford fetches or anything around that price range. I'd be happy to take any further suggestions in terms of colour/mana fixing; the tentative plans moving forward are to fill out the shock cycles, and grab a Corpse Harvester at some point.
I don't understand the lack of tutours, especially Sidisi, Undead Vizier which is also on type and especially great with your Gravecrawler.
Your commander gives you a massive loot, but you're not rocking Patriarch's Bidding at the minimum or Living Death to supplement? Twilight's Call is a decent-ish replacement if the $20 on Bidding is too rich for you. And speaking of loot, Vengeful Pharaoh serves both as a card that doesn't mind being looted and tremendous disincentive to attacks.
The tutor thing is sort of a personal preference; if it deserves a place in the deck otherwise, I'll try to run it, but if not then I prefer not to run hard tutors - partly due to working on a limited budget, but also because I'd prefer not to rely on them unless absolutely necessary. I do really want Sidisi, Undead Vizier in here though, so it may well get pulled from my Thraximundar build, which I've been playing less and less and has an uncertain future at present. I do run Living Death here, did I skip over it in the list? Bidding I'd run, but again budget interferes; it's on my list of cards I want to see reprinted. Vengeful Pharaoh...I dunno, I'm not really convinced. It covers one attacker, it's got a heavy colour cost to cast and it makes sure it's the next card I draw. I just can't see ever being excited to cast it or draw it.
What do you do if Varina never gets to field a sizable attack? Read the Runes is a powerful loot at instant speed, and also functions as a sac outlet with all your dies triggers. And since you like to sac dudes for value, I question the distinct lack of both Nim Deathmantle and Mimic Vat. I know all the rage nowadays is Mirage Mirror...but the Vat still gets a lot of mileage, and will only continue that trend as more ETB dudes are printed. And speaking of sac outlets, Corpse Harvester is pretty decent-ish though it's buy-in is fairly high however Killing Wave is still a card that exists (pay 0 then sac your guys in such a way to maximize your triggers).
Yes, this is where I'm thinking at present too. Early draw is clutch in this build. It's part of where I need to build on, and I've been thinking of things like Windfall and Rhystic Study, but Read the Runes could be a great add. Triggers deaths, and/or fills my yard, instant speed. That's a great card to add, I think it's got a space here. Deathmantle I'm less convinced of, simply for having a tight curve that won't often be able to afford 4 - at least without adding something like Ashnod's Altar and being able to combo out, which I'd prefer to avoid. I'm open to convincing though. Mimic Vat is great too, I like that it's grave hate and token strat in one. It does things Mirage Mirror cant, so I'd definitely consider it here.
I think Mikaeus is over-costed for what he provides without his obvious combos. I'd either add Trike & Ballista or cut him entirely. I'd be happier here with just the humble Gempalm Polluter.
There's a few lords you're missing here, of note I find the lack of Zombie Master and Lord of the Undead unthinkable. Coffin Queen is also a pretty slick zombie too.........
Mind's Eye may be the gold standard draw for colourless, but I'm 90% confident you're gonna draw far more via Dark Prophecy. Especially with your Tombstone Stairwell Wink (btw, love that card, it is sosososo good!)
Mikaeus is pricey, sure. I generally try to avoid hard-casting him where I can, and I'm hoping to add a couple of further reanimation pieces from WAR, most notably Command the Dreadhorde. That being said, there's a reasonable degree of value to be had from him without going full combo, and adding Soul Diviner from WAR will make him more of an advantage engine and less of a one trick pony.
I definitely want a copy of Zombie Master here, and Lord of the Undead too - that being said Undead is another in need of a reprint before I'll buy a copy. $20 NZD is a lot for what it does.
I hadn't considered Dark Prophecy. It could be a decent add, although the mandatory life loss is going to be a little brutal. This deck has had trouble with keeping a reasonable life total, but life for draw is a reasonable trade. This might be worth a try. Mind's Eye is expensive, and costly over time too.
What is Solemnity doing? Looks like a lot of anti-synergy with a chunk of your own deck. I'd rethink that card's inclusion here.
Please do not hate me for ripping into this so hard. I promise I really am nicer than I come off. :/
Absolutely not a problem, this is all constructive, and I appreciate the feedback. Solemnity was suggested as a way to keep cumulative upkeep down, but honestly it hasn't been something I've ever wanted to cast. It's a nonbo with lots of stuff, so it's 100% on the chopping block.
1) The Solemnity package seems interesting (and it also explains your excitement for Soul Diviner), but I'm wondering how often you are running into situations where its more of a hindrance (Carrion Feeder, Festering Mummy, Diregraf Colossus, Archfiend of Ifnir, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Noosegraf Mob, Black Market all "don't work") than a combo card (Plague Belcher, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Mystic Remora, Tombstone Stairwell are all noticeably better). Is the disruption of your opponent's counters and the potential combos worth disrupting your own deck?
Yeah, Solemnity has straight up been a flop. I've never wanted to cast it, as I've always had more in play that suffered for its existence than I've had that benefited from it being active.
2) How has Endless Ranks of the Dead been working for you? I found that the card was seemingl good in theory, but way too slow and inefficient in practice.
I've found exactly the same. It's a target before you get to use it, and often it's 2BB to bite removal for no advantage. As we discussed on your thread, I've swapped it out for Ghoulcaller Gisa and will be updating the thread this morning.
3) What do you think about potentially replacing Graf Harvest with Oversold Cemetery? I've never been a fan of Graf Harvest because it requires creatures in the graveyard (as opposed to Varina that can exile anything), and you have plenty of guys worth recurring that are more powerful than a 2/2 Zombie token.
I'm not really using Harvest for it's exile ability; predominantly it's in the list for combat evasion at a bargain basement cost. I know I have it on Lord of the Accursed too, but it's been really solid at low costed evasion. It makes sure either I hit a player, or if my creatures do get hit, they're trading above par.
4) I highly recommend picking up an Undead Warchief, Kindred Discovery, and/or Patriarch's Bidding.
Overall, I really like the deck. It gives me some cards to reconsider for my own Varina build.
I can see Discovery being gross here, absolutely. I have a copy tied up in my Ur-Dragon build, maybe I should swap it out. Warchief I would love but can't track down for love or money (and it is a little pricey), Bidding I'd totally grab too. Again, it's just outside of what I can afford at present.
Thanks it's been good to bounce back and forth with another Varina player, it helps give me ideas for what works and doesn't.
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I struggle to justify in a 3c deck, but I get what you're saying with the Urborg/Coffers suggestion.
As you may be aware, I have gotten some mileage out of Nykthos in a 3-color deck. It can be particularly effective with a devotion heavy Mirrorweave target. Speaking of which, those are somejuicyMirrorweavetargets you got there...
Private Mod Note
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I struggle to justify in a 3c deck, but I get what you're saying with the Urborg/Coffers suggestion.
As you may be aware, I have gotten some mileage out of Nykthos in a 3-color deck. It can be particularly effective with a devotion heavy Mirrorweave target. Speaking of which, those are somejuicyMirrorweavetargets you got there...
Yeah, I know it can put in work. Partly my hesitation is not wanting to pull either copy from Nissa or Bruna, where it does good work in both places.
You should also know I have considered Mirrorweave for this deck already. There's plenty of good targets, it could do silly things.
Lol, you never castVengeful Pharaoh. You loot him, if someone attacks his trigger will pop up and put himself on top deck. Then your commander is ready to loot him again. Or you in response frantic search/thirst for knowledge him for a similar effect. And then if all else fails, he's still a five power deathtouch for five with relevant typeline, so there's definitely worse things you could be casting. Pharaoh is such an obnoxious card, it kind of commands grave hate or else slows strategies down to a crawl, especially voltron, or any other deck with few creatures.
re: Dark Prophecy: never worry about the life loss, you still win the game on one life.................and if it is a problem, Ivory Tower is a one drop, trinket mageable, and a good source of incidental life gain.
If Bidding is too much (I got mine years ago for ~$8, thanks c17 for spiking those prices...), Twilight's Call exists, you know.........Rise of the Dark Realms will win games too.
Do you frequently tap out a lot? If so, why? If not, it's not that hard to keep Deathmantle mana up to at least save your best guy post-wipe (or best two guys, with a mimic vat as well). "Incidental Value" as I call it, it's a signature build philosophy of my brews.
Lol, you never cast Vengeful Pharaoh. You loot him, if someone attacks his trigger will pop up and put himself on top deck. Then your commander is ready to loot him again. Or you in response frantic search/thirst for knowledge him for a similar effect. And then if all else fails, he's still a five power deathtouch for five with relevant typeline, so there's definitely worse things you could be casting. Pharaoh is such an obnoxious card, it kind of commands grave hate or else slows strategies down to a crawl, especially voltron, or any other deck with few creatures.
That does sort of make sense. It'd mean really dedicating to a looting build, which I'm not overly afraid of. I think it'd work fine, it'd just mean more draw/loot and going more in on a reanimate theme. Speaking of which, Patriarch's Bidding is now $30 at my LGS. They have a copy, I could probably trade for it post WAR (my wife wanted to go halves in a box - I know it's not the best way to get new releases, but she enjoys it and it will likely grab me some tradeable stuff). I know about Twilight's Call, I just don't really like it. Reanimating everything ever seems risky to me. And Rise of the Dark Realms is now a $40 card.
re: Dark Prophecy: never worry about the life loss, you still win the game on one life.................and if it is a problem, Ivory Tower is a one drop, trinket mageable, and a good source of incidental life gain.
Do you frequently tap out a lot? If so, why? If not, it's not that hard to keep Deathmantle mana up to at least save your best guy post-wipe (or best two guys, with a mimic vat as well). "Incidental Value" as I call it, it's a signature build philosophy of my brews.
Yes, and no. Yes if I'm struggling for land/colours. No if land drops are fine; mostly that's because I don't like to overcommit. It's a delicate balance sometimes, but most of the time it's not a good idea to have an empty hand when you pass turn. A sweep can happen at any time, things can go wrong, and it's important to have something in hand to restock with. Especially here, where Varina's filter only stocks your graveyard if you're topdecking.
I'm a huge sucker for self-mill. Drownyard Temple seems like it'd be really good in your deck. It's another colorless land slot, but it's basically free ramp with your general.
With all the 2/2 zombie fodder your deck pumps out, Dread Return seems like it'd be great. While less synergistic, I can also see Unburial Rites doing good things.
I'd also recommend reassembling skeleton as a bad second gravecrawler. It doesn't work well with all your zombie synergy cards but works very well with your more random aristocrat cards like Eldrazi Monument, Ghoulcaller Gisa, and Skullclamp and that's ignoring the massive amount of discard outlets you have.
Grave Pact and dictate of erebos are also a pretty good cards as it turns out. I'm guessing they're also not in here for budget reasons?
With all the 2/2 zombie fodder your deck pumps out, Dread Return seems like it'd be great. While less synergistic, I can also see Unburial Rites doing good things.
I had tossed up this one and Victimize, although I do prefer repeatable reanimation permanents. These are worth considering though. I'd considered Apprentice Necromancer for a similar effect, could be fun, and gives me at least a few death triggers for my bleeders and Open the Graves/Ajani's Welcome.
I'd also recommend reassembling skeleton as a bad second gravecrawler. It doesn't work well with all your zombie synergy cards but works very well with your more random aristocrat cards like Eldrazi Monument, Ghoulcaller Gisa, and Skullclamp and that's ignoring the massive amount of discard outlets you have.
I like it, in theory. It could do some work, although I'd definitely prefer a zombie with this effect.That being said, I've used this guy elsewhere though, and I know how great he can be.
Grave Pact and dictate of erebos are also a pretty good cards as it turns out. I'm guessing they're also not in here for budget reasons?
I do have a spare Dictate. I hadn't really considered it, simply because I don't actually have a huge concentration of sacrifice outlets. There's Carrion Feeder, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born and Ghoulcaller Gisa. I could add Ashnod's Altar, but I'm hesitant to add it because I don't want to get into combo land, it just isn't me.
I saw you were running Volrath's Stronghold, I'm guessing you're not running Unholy Grotto because of budget reasons?
Well, it's an ok effect, but mostly I haven't been able to track down a copy. Volrath's Stronghold I've held onto since like, 1999-2000 when Stronghol first got released, so I got it when it was relatively cheaper than what it's worth nowadays. Grotto is a reasonable suggestion, if/when my LGS turns up with one I could probably afford to snap it up.
$30 Bidding? $40 Rise? Sounds like your LGS is inflating prices, both those together could be had via tcgplayer for ~$42 combined ($18 & $24 respectively).
Oh and hey if you know the Pharaoh is lurking on your top deck, Nephalia Drownyard is another way to keep him in the 'Yard where he belongs.
$30 Bidding? $40 Rise? Sounds like your LGS is inflating prices, both those together could be had via tcgplayer for ~$42 combined ($18 & $24 respectively).
Oh and hey if you know the Pharaoh is lurking on your top deck, Nephalia Drownyard is another way to keep him in the 'Yard where he belongs.
Oh, that’s NZD. It probably equates to the same after conversion.
$30 Bidding? $40 Rise? Sounds like your LGS is inflating prices, both those together could be had via tcgplayer for ~$42 combined ($18 & $24 respectively).
Oh and hey if you know the Pharaoh is lurking on your top deck, Nephalia Drownyard is another way to keep him in the 'Yard where he belongs.
Oh, that’s NZD. It probably equates to the same after conversion.
That probably explains it. I don't know/do conversions haha. I just know USD.
$30 Bidding? $40 Rise? Sounds like your LGS is inflating prices, both those together could be had via tcgplayer for ~$42 combined ($18 & $24 respectively).
Oh and hey if you know the Pharaoh is lurking on your top deck, Nephalia Drownyard is another way to keep him in the 'Yard where he belongs.
Oh, that’s NZD. It probably equates to the same after conversion.
That probably explains it. I don't know/do conversions haha. I just know USD.
$1USD = $1.50NZD at current market prices, so an $18USD card would be $27NZD and a $24 card would be $36. I would think that cards are probably scarcer in NZ so that would account for the rest of the difference.
I had no idea that some of those cards got so expensive. I thought I was helping by suggesting some inexpensive things to potentially add.....
I'm sure you'd do alright, you can pretty well see what I'm doing a mile away. Just stick an aura shards on me, ride that to victory 😂
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Well that just describes how I feel about Aura Shards, even though Zedruu's the only deck I have assembled that crumbles to that.
I freakin hate that card. Its totally fair and I think my vehement hatred for it is irrational, but that doesn't change how I feel toward it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Anuway, how do you feel about adding more vehicles? Mobile Garrison has a nice untap ability, Skysovereign helps control the board and you have probably the only place where Consulate Dreadnought is playable(That's a plus by itself XD) Conqueror's Galleon flipped state looks very good for your deck too.
I think the only of the fast mana I'm not running is Mana Vault! That's a bit of personal taste as I consider Grim Monolith to be superior. Typically, I reserve Vault for decks than can play Welder and even then...I'm not totally cool with it. Probably my own historic bias playing a role here, no doubt.
Hey, nice to see you over this way too! As I addressed HoG, let's take a look at the others.
Mobile Garrison feels like a usually but not strictly better Voltaic Servant and I like that. I'd play it, if I hadn't just removed the servant. Still, it's a useful effect that deserves to have my eye kept on it.
I don't think the Dreadnought is playable even here as it doesn't have evasion and I'm always better going into the red zone with Traxos, whom can kill in two hits, as opposed to a 7/11 that only my commander can reliably crew. If I needed more "generic fat", I think I'd be obligated to consider Ulamog's Crusher over this ship for similar purposes.
Lastly, I don't think there's anything wrong with the Galleon honestly. It's a perfectly serviceable, reasonable card, a great resource for someone without a Staff of Domination/Trading Post. But...I have both. I couldn't justify Galleon over one of these powerhouses, and I don't think I'd need a third one. Maybe. Though I suspect there's a case to be made for it over Endbringer, but this I feel is hardly an open-and-shut case. Hmmm.
I hope my assessments are accurate.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
A deck that plays out like the zombies of a classic zombie movie: you can knock them down, but you're going to wear out before the zombies do.
Other than that, it has the same strengths and weaknesses as any "critical mass of permanents" deck that I'm familiar with. Semi-resilient board states, lack of room for instant speed answers due to critical mass requirements, certain cards that are by definition win conditions of the deck.
Deck is inherently fair, which is fine. This is neither too terrifying nor a pushover, making it likely viable for most playgroups. This is something I can't say for my builds.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
How necessary do you think Eldrazi Monument has been so far? For me, it is always one of those cards that I can never decide if it is worth it or not even in a deck like this. I really prefer just keeping the pressure going and dropping a 5 drop that helps protect my board and buff creatures seems good, but it also seems that it takes away from loading up the Zombie army too.
I am not sure I like Festering Mummy as its effect seems weak. How has Aminatou been for you? That seems like an interesting inclusion. What are some of the better lines you have with her?
I will comment in your deck thread about potential card inclusions but on a final note, the card tag for Varina in your Deck tag is messed up since you forgot the comma
First things I see, is that I don't think you actually need Library or Tower (Reliquary). You're not really gaining anything by hording cards in hand, and in 3c nogreen I'm confident that colourless land would be better served as anything else. Path of Ancestry seems especially great. You could even Vesuva/Thespian's Stage it for extra scries. I also think the Coffers-borg strat is entirely overblown without green to fetch the other piece of the combo, and would often be better served by a Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in this particular deck. Arcane Sanctum is still quite playable, as is Dromar's Cavern. Staying with mana, I think your rock suite is so low that it can't possibly behave in a reliable way, and you'd be better served going with a more stable Land Tax + Thawing Glaciers route. Additionally, I find Chromatic Lantern to be more of a builder's crutch than an actually useful mana rock, especially at the three drop. You're better than this, you don't need to rely on this one card to colour fix. Especially in a deck with a looting commander.
I don't understand the lack of tutours, especially Sidisi, Undead Vizier which is also on type and especially great with your Gravecrawler.
Your commander gives you a massive loot, but you're not rocking Patriarch's Bidding at the minimum or Living Death to supplement? Twilight's Call is a decent-ish replacement if the $20 on Bidding is too rich for you. And speaking of loot, Vengeful Pharaoh serves both as a card that doesn't mind being looted and tremendous disincentive to attacks.
What do you do if Varina never gets to field a sizable attack? Read the Runes is a powerful loot at instant speed, and also functions as a sac outlet with all your dies triggers. And since you like to sac dudes for value, I question the distinct lack of both Nim Deathmantle and Mimic Vat. I know all the rage nowadays is Mirage Mirror...but the Vat still gets a lot of mileage, and will only continue that trend as more ETB dudes are printed. And speaking of sac outlets, Corpse Harvester is pretty decent-ish though it's buy-in is fairly high however Killing Wave is still a card that exists (pay 0 then sac your guys in such a way to maximize your triggers).
I think Mikaeus is over-costed for what he provides without his obvious combos. I'd either add Trike & Ballista or cut him entirely. I'd be happier here with just the humble Gempalm Polluter.
There's a few lords you're missing here, of note I find the lack of Zombie Master and Lord of the Undead unthinkable. Coffin Queen is also a pretty slick zombie too.........
Mind's Eye may be the gold standard draw for colourless, but I'm 90% confident you're gonna draw far more via Dark Prophecy. Especially with your Tombstone Stairwell (btw, love that card, it is sosososo good!)
What is Solemnity doing? Looks like a lot of anti-synergy with a chunk of your own deck. I'd rethink that card's inclusion here.
Please do not hate me for ripping into this so hard. I promise I really am nicer than I come off. :/
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
1) The Solemnity package seems interesting (and it also explains your excitement for Soul Diviner), but I'm wondering how often you are running into situations where its more of a hindrance (Carrion Feeder, Festering Mummy, Diregraf Colossus, Archfiend of Ifnir, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born, Noosegraf Mob, Black Market all "don't work") than a combo card (Plague Belcher, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Mystic Remora, Tombstone Stairwell are all noticeably better). Is the disruption of your opponent's counters and the potential combos worth disrupting your own deck?
2) How has Endless Ranks of the Dead been working for you? I found that the card was seemingl good in theory, but way too slow and inefficient in practice.
3) What do you think about potentially replacing Graf Harvest with Oversold Cemetery? I've never been a fan of Graf Harvest because it requires creatures in the graveyard (as opposed to Varina that can exile anything), and you have plenty of guys worth recurring that are more powerful than a 2/2 Zombie token.
4) I highly recommend picking up an Undead Warchief, Kindred Discovery, and/or Patriarch's Bidding.
Overall, I really like the deck. It gives me some cards to reconsider for my own Varina build.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Monument has been really decent for me. It pairs quite well with Varina's triggers, Gravecrawler, Open the Graves and some of the reanimation I run here. It's not always the right choice to cast, but when it drops it's been a really nice stabiliser.
The mummy, yes I agree. It's a weak effect, but mostly why it's here is to fill out the lower end of my curve. I've found it really important to have bodies on the field early, and predominantly that's why it's in here. Aminatou, the Fateshifter is mostly here for her blink. The topdeck function isn't, it's sort of a Varina trigger mini, but she's mostly here to reset counters on things like Tombstone Stairwell, Mystic Remora, and the other walkers I run here.
Thanks for the heads up!
I sort of got convinced to try Library of Leng, and I tend to agree here. Hand size modifiers have been pretty lackluster here, and it means I've got less ways to drop things into the yard to reanimate. I could definitely see dropping both of these, as Tower often ends up doing nothing not just here, but in a lot of decks. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I struggle to justify in a 3c deck, but I get what you're saying with the Urborg/Coffers suggestion. Honestly, manabase is the one part of this deck that has struggled more than anything else - sadly it's also the most expensive, and I won't likely ever be able to afford fetches or anything around that price range. I'd be happy to take any further suggestions in terms of colour/mana fixing; the tentative plans moving forward are to fill out the shock cycles, and grab a Corpse Harvester at some point.
The tutor thing is sort of a personal preference; if it deserves a place in the deck otherwise, I'll try to run it, but if not then I prefer not to run hard tutors - partly due to working on a limited budget, but also because I'd prefer not to rely on them unless absolutely necessary. I do really want Sidisi, Undead Vizier in here though, so it may well get pulled from my Thraximundar build, which I've been playing less and less and has an uncertain future at present. I do run Living Death here, did I skip over it in the list? Bidding I'd run, but again budget interferes; it's on my list of cards I want to see reprinted.
Vengeful Pharaoh...I dunno, I'm not really convinced. It covers one attacker, it's got a heavy colour cost to cast and it makes sure it's the next card I draw. I just can't see ever being excited to cast it or draw it.
Yes, this is where I'm thinking at present too. Early draw is clutch in this build. It's part of where I need to build on, and I've been thinking of things like Windfall and Rhystic Study, but Read the Runes could be a great add. Triggers deaths, and/or fills my yard, instant speed. That's a great card to add, I think it's got a space here. Deathmantle I'm less convinced of, simply for having a tight curve that won't often be able to afford 4 - at least without adding something like Ashnod's Altar and being able to combo out, which I'd prefer to avoid. I'm open to convincing though. Mimic Vat is great too, I like that it's grave hate and token strat in one. It does things Mirage Mirror cant, so I'd definitely consider it here.
Mikaeus is pricey, sure. I generally try to avoid hard-casting him where I can, and I'm hoping to add a couple of further reanimation pieces from WAR, most notably Command the Dreadhorde. That being said, there's a reasonable degree of value to be had from him without going full combo, and adding Soul Diviner from WAR will make him more of an advantage engine and less of a one trick pony.
I definitely want a copy of Zombie Master here, and Lord of the Undead too - that being said Undead is another in need of a reprint before I'll buy a copy. $20 NZD is a lot for what it does.
I hadn't considered Dark Prophecy. It could be a decent add, although the mandatory life loss is going to be a little brutal. This deck has had trouble with keeping a reasonable life total, but life for draw is a reasonable trade. This might be worth a try. Mind's Eye is expensive, and costly over time too.
Absolutely not a problem, this is all constructive, and I appreciate the feedback. Solemnity was suggested as a way to keep cumulative upkeep down, but honestly it hasn't been something I've ever wanted to cast. It's a nonbo with lots of stuff, so it's 100% on the chopping block.
Yeah, Solemnity has straight up been a flop. I've never wanted to cast it, as I've always had more in play that suffered for its existence than I've had that benefited from it being active.
I've found exactly the same. It's a target before you get to use it, and often it's 2BB to bite removal for no advantage. As we discussed on your thread, I've swapped it out for Ghoulcaller Gisa and will be updating the thread this morning.
I'm not really using Harvest for it's exile ability; predominantly it's in the list for combat evasion at a bargain basement cost. I know I have it on Lord of the Accursed too, but it's been really solid at low costed evasion. It makes sure either I hit a player, or if my creatures do get hit, they're trading above par.
I can see Discovery being gross here, absolutely. I have a copy tied up in my Ur-Dragon build, maybe I should swap it out. Warchief I would love but can't track down for love or money (and it is a little pricey), Bidding I'd totally grab too. Again, it's just outside of what I can afford at present.
Thanks it's been good to bounce back and forth with another Varina player, it helps give me ideas for what works and doesn't.
As you may be aware, I have gotten some mileage out of Nykthos in a 3-color deck. It can be particularly effective with a devotion heavy Mirrorweave target. Speaking of which, those are some juicy Mirrorweave targets you got there...
Yeah, I know it can put in work. Partly my hesitation is not wanting to pull either copy from Nissa or Bruna, where it does good work in both places.
You should also know I have considered Mirrorweave for this deck already. There's plenty of good targets, it could do silly things.
re: Dark Prophecy: never worry about the life loss, you still win the game on one life.................and if it is a problem, Ivory Tower is a one drop, trinket mageable, and a good source of incidental life gain.
If Bidding is too much (I got mine years ago for ~$8, thanks c17 for spiking those prices...), Twilight's Call exists, you know.........Rise of the Dark Realms will win games too.
Do you frequently tap out a lot? If so, why? If not, it's not that hard to keep Deathmantle mana up to at least save your best guy post-wipe (or best two guys, with a mimic vat as well). "Incidental Value" as I call it, it's a signature build philosophy of my brews.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
That does sort of make sense. It'd mean really dedicating to a looting build, which I'm not overly afraid of. I think it'd work fine, it'd just mean more draw/loot and going more in on a reanimate theme. Speaking of which, Patriarch's Bidding is now $30 at my LGS. They have a copy, I could probably trade for it post WAR (my wife wanted to go halves in a box - I know it's not the best way to get new releases, but she enjoys it and it will likely grab me some tradeable stuff). I know about Twilight's Call, I just don't really like it. Reanimating everything ever seems risky to me. And Rise of the Dark Realms is now a $40 card.
I can make it work. Vault of the Archangel does good work, Ajani's Welcome is surprisingly good, and I've been eyeing up Sorin, Vengeful Bloodlord for a space here too. It'll work out one way or another.
Yes, and no. Yes if I'm struggling for land/colours. No if land drops are fine; mostly that's because I don't like to overcommit. It's a delicate balance sometimes, but most of the time it's not a good idea to have an empty hand when you pass turn. A sweep can happen at any time, things can go wrong, and it's important to have something in hand to restock with. Especially here, where Varina's filter only stocks your graveyard if you're topdecking.
With all the 2/2 zombie fodder your deck pumps out, Dread Return seems like it'd be great. While less synergistic, I can also see Unburial Rites doing good things.
I'd also recommend reassembling skeleton as a bad second gravecrawler. It doesn't work well with all your zombie synergy cards but works very well with your more random aristocrat cards like Eldrazi Monument, Ghoulcaller Gisa, and Skullclamp and that's ignoring the massive amount of discard outlets you have.
Grave Pact and dictate of erebos are also a pretty good cards as it turns out. I'm guessing they're also not in here for budget reasons?
I saw you were running Volrath's Stronghold, I'm guessing you're not running Unholy Grotto because of budget reasons?
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
I like it, in theory. It could do some work, although I'd definitely prefer a zombie with this effect.That being said, I've used this guy elsewhere though, and I know how great he can be.
I do have a spare Dictate. I hadn't really considered it, simply because I don't actually have a huge concentration of sacrifice outlets. There's Carrion Feeder, Grimgrin, Corpse-Born and Ghoulcaller Gisa. I could add Ashnod's Altar, but I'm hesitant to add it because I don't want to get into combo land, it just isn't me.
Well, it's an ok effect, but mostly I haven't been able to track down a copy. Volrath's Stronghold I've held onto since like, 1999-2000 when Stronghol first got released, so I got it when it was relatively cheaper than what it's worth nowadays. Grotto is a reasonable suggestion, if/when my LGS turns up with one I could probably afford to snap it up.
Oh and hey if you know the Pharaoh is lurking on your top deck, Nephalia Drownyard is another way to keep him in the 'Yard where he belongs.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Oh, that’s NZD. It probably equates to the same after conversion.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
$1USD = $1.50NZD at current market prices, so an $18USD card would be $27NZD and a $24 card would be $36. I would think that cards are probably scarcer in NZ so that would account for the rest of the difference.
I had no idea that some of those cards got so expensive. I thought I was helping by suggesting some inexpensive things to potentially add.....
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections