Low key I've been waiting for this deck to come up in the feed ever since the (I'm assuming gender here) her thread about it. Happy it finally happened.
- I see a lot of cards that care about Islands, and not to mention the suggestion here from @ForgottenOne for High Tide, but a lot of nonbasics that you could easily do without.
Rogue's Passage (you have evasion already).
Reliquary Tower (why do you need to horde cards in hand? An ability is only as good as your ability to use it, and this deck doesn't appear to have a need to horde cards)
Deserted Temple (you combo with Nykthos, once/turn cycle, and if you're doing that you're probably trying to storm already. I think you'd be better served by an Island, or a Candelabra of Tawnos in this slot, if I'm being brutally honest here).
Halimar Depths appears fine on the surface but do you really need 1/3 of a ponder in exchange for an EBT land? Again I suspect an island is superior here.
Myriad is OK, I suspect a Thawing Glaciers would go further for you though (and it still functions under B2B ).
Skerry is fine, probably better than Tomb in 80% of games. Path of Ancestry and Cavern of Souls are self-explanatory.
Since you could be playing so many more basic Islands, I imagine Back to Basics becomes an easy sell here, as does Engulf the Shore. Similarly Daze remains an incredible blowout that no one expects. Submerge is a great removal spell (how many games do you see where someone isn't playing "ramp to a million mono-G"?)
I bet instead of those shuffles, you'd be better served by a Time Spiral/Time Reversal if you don't have a Timetwister lying around. I don't see any cantrips. Those are the reason to play U imo, is there a reason to not include Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain and their ilk?
I love picking Fact or Fiction piles. It's such a subjective thing, and it's a lot of fun for everyone involved.
I love putting five cards in one stack while everyone drops their jaws...then I put a $5 bill in the other and watch them question the ethics of the right play vs the cash grab.
Low key I've been waiting for this deck to come up in the feed ever since the (I'm assuming gender here) her thread about it. Happy it finally happened.
- I see a lot of cards that care about Islands, and not to mention the suggestion here from @ForgottenOne for High Tide, but a lot of nonbasics that you could easily do without.
Rogue's Passage (you have evasion already).
Reliquary Tower (why do you need to horde cards in hand? An ability is only as good as your ability to use it, and this deck doesn't appear to have a need to horde cards)
Deserted Temple (you combo with Nykthos, once/turn cycle, and if you're doing that you're probably trying to storm already. I think you'd be better served by an Island, or a Candelabra of Tawnos in this slot, if I'm being brutally honest here).
Halimar Depths appears fine on the surface but do you really need 1/3 of a ponder in exchange for an EBT land? Again I suspect an island is superior here.
Myriad is OK, I suspect a Thawing Glaciers would go further for you though (and it still functions under B2B ).
Skerry is fine, probably better than Tomb in 80% of games. Path of Ancestry and Cavern of Souls are self-explanatory.
Since you could be playing so many more basic Islands, I imagine Back to Basics becomes an easy sell here, as does Engulf the Shore. Similarly Daze remains an incredible blowout that no one expects. Submerge is a great removal spell (how many games do you see where someone isn't playing "ramp to a million mono-G"?)
I bet instead of those shuffles, you'd be better served by a Time Spiral/Time Reversal if you don't have a Timetwister lying around. I don't see any cantrips. Those are the reason to play U imo, is there a reason to not include Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain and their ilk?
High Tide is already in the deck. (I play the IDW/Dack version, fwiw.)
I agree that the deck could use some more islands. Rogue's Passage and Halimar Depths always seem to underperform, so they're likely due for a cut.
Reliquary Tower is needed in the deck because there's often a turn or two of setup before the storm turn, and you don't want to have to ditch any cards before then, especially if you know you'll be operating on the Mind over Matter plan.
I'm not interested in effects like Daze/Force of Will/Pact of Negation because I'm generally not a fan of them in Commander in general and I also don't want to make my decks too hard to interact with. I would rather have my combo disrupted once in a while in the name of more interactive Magic than play a truly tightly tuned build with no room for escape. It's just a philosophy thing for me.
As for Submerge/Engulf the Shore, I just don't have room for these sorts of effects in the deck and would rather just play similar effects on Sphinxes (Riddlemaster / Dream Eater). The same goes for cheap cantrips, which I just don't have the space for. I would much rather have a slower start with a better combo turn than to be drawing these cards late game. Besides, sphinxes give me all the card draw I could want.
Walk the Aeons is the extra turn spell of choice because I want to be able to buy it back once or twice. The reason I play an extra turn spell at all is because often I can storm off, fill the board with sphinxes, but not kill anyone, so i need the extra turn to turn the air force sideways and occasionally I'll need a second extra turn to get the last opponent dead as well.
As for Submerge/Engulf the Shore, I just don't have room for these sorts of effects in the deck and would rather just play similar effects on Sphinxes (Riddlemaster / Dream Eater).
I would argue you could be well served by a cheap Unsummon effect or two. I've played a similar mono-u deck with Myojin of Seeing Winds where the purpose was to get down the Myojin, and then every clone becomes a draw ~15. In that deck, I played bounce spells as most of my interaction, because with something like Omniscience or Mind Over Matter in play, any bounce spell let me recast my general and draw a bunch. So while you're still waiting to storm, a bounce spell can be a tempo play, and then the turn you go off, it gains the text "draw target sphinx".
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I know you make good use of clones in your deck, have you considered the new Spark Double? Seems great to copy your sphinx, even your general, to help with the storm count.
I know you make good use of clones in your deck, have you considered the new Spark Double? Seems great to copy your sphinx, even your general, to help with the storm count.
Oh it's absolutely on the list for cards to go in the deck. I don't change my lists until I have the cards in hand, though, so it's not there yet.
High Tide is already in the deck. (I play the IDW/Dack version, fwiw.)
Sorry. I didn't see it under the Ramp/Big Mana cards.
I'm still curious to know if you ever tried running some of the Changelings for the Sphinx slots. It's not like they are all-stars on their own, but I would think that some of the same principals that apply to Edgar Markov Vampires would apply here; that almost any cheap Sphinx becomes instantly playable due to the trigger. Amoeboid Changeling and Shapesharer seem like they could be good.
I'm still curious to know if you ever tried running some of the Changelings for the Sphinx slots. It's not like they are all-stars on their own, but I would think that some of the same principals that apply to Edgar Markov Vampires would apply here; that almost any cheap Sphinx becomes instantly playable due to the trigger. Amoeboid Changeling and Shapesharer seem like they could be good.
I haven't tried them, but honestly, I'm just not interested in them. The upside of my creatures being Sphinxes is that they all have reasonable flying bodies, and with Unesh out, 4 CMC Sphinxes only cost 2 anyway, so the value of a naturally cheap changeling isn't really worth it. The deck really isn't that interested in more 1-cost sphinxes.
I have a confession to make. I added the "it might be a dragon sometimes" part. It just felt important to me that Dragonlover have maximum concentration of dragon decks. But this isn't actually a dragon deck. This is a fat stack of white legendary creatures, all of which are ready to lead at a moment's notice. Do you love seeing this many legends? Or do all the Kamigawa cards scare you away?
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I find it impossible to leave feedback and meaningful discussion to this deck. It just...exists. It's ideology is too broad of a concept such that feedback isn't meaningful enough to make an iMPACT.
I find it impossible to leave feedback and meaningful discussion to this deck. It just...exists. It's ideology is too broad of a concept such that feedback isn't meaningful enough to make an iMPACT.
Ok, but what's your favorite mono-white legend of all time?
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I find it impossible to leave feedback and meaningful discussion to this deck. It just...exists. It's ideology is too broad of a concept such that feedback isn't meaningful enough to make an iMPACT.
Ok, but what's your favorite mono-white legend of all time?
I kind of agree with 3drinks here: this deck is really hard to nail down in terms of card considerations. And I agree with the posters in the thread about some inclusions. Overall, the deck is a cool concept but it seems too "unfocused" for my tastes since it has to be a more general deck without tightly fitting to any one commander. Not that my tastes should dictate the build of course
How well does it play under each commander? Are there some that are just far and away better than the rest? How many different commanders have you actually gotten to play with so far and do the games feel at all different for each different commander? Or does the deck always feel similar with the commander being always accessible making a somewhat insignificant impact to the playstyle of the deck?
This deck looks painfully slow. There's no ramp or even card draw to ensure land-drops. It's massively full of anti-synergy. It's trying to play big durdly 6 drops and a million wraths with no recursion. I feel like most pre-cons would dismantle this deck with minimal difficulty.
I'm going to echo what the other posters here and in the deck thread have said: the deck is extremely unfocused. In the absence of a specific commander to give the deck structure it really needs a more defined strategy.
In its current state the most meaningful feedback I can give is to pick a more concrete direction for the deck (aggro, midrange, control etc.) and go from there. I think you will get better feedback that way.
Personally I would go in on the white weenie approach that Weebo highlighted in the deck thread. White definitely has a critical mass of good aggressive legends that could support this while keeping the overall theme of mono white legends intact.
I find it impossible to leave feedback and meaningful discussion to this deck. It just...exists.
This made me laugh, so thankyou!
I first came up with the idea for the deck about seven years ago, and built it about five years ago, which is why there's such a preponderance of Kamigawa in there. Since then I've had a slightly erratic involvement in MTG and haven't necessarily picked up new cards every set/managed to get my hands on the new precons for the year.
Many of the card choices you guys have presented do make sense, so I'm not going to answer each one individually, but I am going to question the attitude of 'What does it do? It's going in a million directions? Its slow and unfocused'
It plays guys at every point on the curve (pretty much) and they're all white legends. Yes, there's a bunch of wraths. No, I don't have to windmill slam a wrath as soon as I draw it. How can I have a more defined strategy than that when I can't depend on any given commander being in the command zone? And yes, it does play differently depending who's in the zone. For example, if I got Thalia I'm probably looking to go wide whereas Akroma is aiming for the commander damage kill. People also react to the deck differently depending on who I put down. Nobody is that scared by Cho-Manno, but Elesh Norn is a different matter entirely, even though they know it's the exact same deck in both games.
I wouldn't say any given commander is better than any other, especially now I jettisoned the Myojin, mainly because of the power differential I mentioned. The worse a commander is, the more I can fly under the radar early game seems to be the general way it plays out.
Since you like playing dudes, you might consider the new Oketra God-Eternal Oketra. Solid body, and will help you spew out dudes while doing what your deck already wants to do: cast creatures!
Also, I agree with Dunharrow - title of deck/thread being considered in the title of the Random thread would be helpful.
Many of the card choices you guys have presented do make sense, so I'm not going to answer each one individually, but I am going to question the attitude of 'What does it do? It's going in a million directions? Its slow and unfocused'
It plays guys at every point on the curve (pretty much) and they're all white legends. Yes, there's a bunch of wraths. No, I don't have to windmill slam a wrath as soon as I draw it. How can I have a more defined strategy than that when I can't depend on any given commander being in the command zone? And yes, it does play differently depending who's in the zone. For example, if I got Thalia I'm probably looking to go wide whereas Akroma is aiming for the commander damage kill. People also react to the deck differently depending on who I put down. Nobody is that scared by Cho-Manno, but Elesh Norn is a different matter entirely, even though they know it's the exact same deck in both games.
For me, the part that makes it feel unfocused is that you have several cards that don't mesh with your stated goal for the deck and you don't have the draw power to pull off multiple game plans simultaneously. At its core, this is a white beatdown deck. You're more likely to have a general that promotes winning via continually applying pressure to you opponents' life totals than you are to have a controlling one that wants to win through inevitability. Because you still have a number of cards that fit the inevitability plan better than the aggressive plan, you're going to end up with a lot of fluff in your deck no matter which general you have. Konda, Lord of Eiganjo, Yomiji, Who Bars the Way, Sensei Golden-Tail, Masako the Humorless (debatable), Iona, Shield of Emeria (debatable), Cho-Manno, Revolutionary, Takeno, Samurai General, Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo, and Mangara of Corondor are all relatively inefficient attackers who don't do a good job of assisting your more effective beaters. Reverse the Sands is mostly cute, and doesn't really contribute to what you're trying to do. The wrath count supports the walker count and most of the walkers are combat focused, so they can coexist to some degree. I'd still shave those by one or two so you're not shooting yourself in the foot. A number of these cards are also at the top of your curve. Having a curve that goes to 9 CMC, including 10 cards with 7+ CMC, in a deck with almost no draw or ramp is a recipe for having things stuck in hand.
If you trade out the defensive cards for [lower CMC] aggressive ones, you're still going to have a lot of variety in your games. Some games you'll play a few little guys and buff them up, some games you'll see more token production and swarm even more, some games will be voltron, some games will be walker heavy. The games you'll be reducing are the ones where you have a general that wants to sit back on defense while you draw a bunch of anthems, or the games where you start with a reasonable hand of a few lands and a few spells then draw half a dozen high CMC bombs in a row.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Since you like playing dudes, you might consider the new Oketra God-Eternal Oketra. Solid body, and will help you spew out dudes while doing what your deck already wants to do: cast creatures!
This is the first thing that came to my mind. I think that new Oketra is going to end up being one of the best multiplayer mono-white commanders in the format.
As an Aside... can we maybe put the name/type of deck in the title of the thread?
Can do. I was like "yeah, I can throw the user and general in the title or something" and wouldn't you know "no fixed general" is the current deck. Lol.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Needs moar mana rocks. As an added benefit, they're still "historic".
Why even have Gideon, Champion of Justice? Why run Konda's Banner outside of a tribal or token deck? Here it's just a Glorious Anthem that does nothing for artifact creatures and does something extra for whatever the most common creature type is among your white creatures. Of all the boardwipes, Hour of Reckoning seems the most useless, since you don't really have that many token makers. And without more t abilities, Masako the Humorless plays like "bad vigilance".
I should add, Akroma's Memorial holds a special place for me. You see, it can be worse than useless in some decks (Ghave, Uril, Marath) and is only useful in others (basically any deck running Pestilence-type effects, damage-based wipes, and things like Diaochan). Outside of those decks, it's usually just overcosted for what it does.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
This deck uses every piece of the animal that is Olivia, Mobilized for War (AKA the good Olivia). She lets you discard cards to give haste and +1/+1 to your creatures, and all I want is to dump my hand and smash face as hard as possible. To demonstrate, I've got 3 new toys from WAR that haven't made it into the decklist thread as of writing this, that demonstrate nicely what the gameplan is. Nehed, Dreadhorde Champion attacks on turn 4 as a 6/5 hasty trampler that discards my hand and draws that many and makes free mana. God-Eternal Bontu comes down the next turn as a 6/7 haste menace that sacrifices my permanents and lets me draw that many. And then having rapidly dumped a dozen or so cards into the graveyard, I can Command the Dreadhorde all the creature cards back, probably also with haste. As I've told people who've borrowed this deck from me in the past, whatever decision seems riskiest is almost certainly correct. The right way to Rakdos.
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- I see a lot of cards that care about Islands, and not to mention the suggestion here from @ForgottenOne for High Tide, but a lot of nonbasics that you could easily do without.
Since you could be playing so many more basic Islands, I imagine Back to Basics becomes an easy sell here, as does Engulf the Shore. Similarly Daze remains an incredible blowout that no one expects. Submerge is a great removal spell (how many games do you see where someone isn't playing "ramp to a million mono-G"?)
I bet instead of those shuffles, you'd be better served by a Time Spiral/Time Reversal if you don't have a Timetwister lying around. I don't see any cantrips. Those are the reason to play U imo, is there a reason to not include Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain and their ilk?
It's goofy, but I am a fan of Mirror Mockery. It's no Helm of the Host, but the value is definitely present.
Is there a reason you're opting for Walk the Aeons over Nexus of Fate/Beacon of Tomorrows? Can't imagine you're buying it back often.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I love putting five cards in one stack while everyone drops their jaws...then I put a $5 bill in the other and watch them question the ethics of the right play vs the cash grab.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
High Tide is already in the deck. (I play the IDW/Dack version, fwiw.)
I agree that the deck could use some more islands. Rogue's Passage and Halimar Depths always seem to underperform, so they're likely due for a cut.
Reliquary Tower is needed in the deck because there's often a turn or two of setup before the storm turn, and you don't want to have to ditch any cards before then, especially if you know you'll be operating on the Mind over Matter plan.
I'm not interested in effects like Daze/Force of Will/Pact of Negation because I'm generally not a fan of them in Commander in general and I also don't want to make my decks too hard to interact with. I would rather have my combo disrupted once in a while in the name of more interactive Magic than play a truly tightly tuned build with no room for escape. It's just a philosophy thing for me.
As for Submerge/Engulf the Shore, I just don't have room for these sorts of effects in the deck and would rather just play similar effects on Sphinxes (Riddlemaster / Dream Eater). The same goes for cheap cantrips, which I just don't have the space for. I would much rather have a slower start with a better combo turn than to be drawing these cards late game. Besides, sphinxes give me all the card draw I could want.
Walk the Aeons is the extra turn spell of choice because I want to be able to buy it back once or twice. The reason I play an extra turn spell at all is because often I can storm off, fill the board with sphinxes, but not kill anyone, so i need the extra turn to turn the air force sideways and occasionally I'll need a second extra turn to get the last opponent dead as well.
Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone!
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GWU Angus Mackenzie's Fog of War GWU / B Sheoldred's Sleepless Cemetery B / R Ashling's Purifying Pilgrimage R
U Unesh's Sphinx Storm U / R Ib's Goblins: What It Says On The Tin R / UR Okaun & Zndrsplt Flip Out UR
Oathbreaker: UB Ashiok's Persistent Nightmare UB
I would argue you could be well served by a cheap Unsummon effect or two. I've played a similar mono-u deck with Myojin of Seeing Winds where the purpose was to get down the Myojin, and then every clone becomes a draw ~15. In that deck, I played bounce spells as most of my interaction, because with something like Omniscience or Mind Over Matter in play, any bounce spell let me recast my general and draw a bunch. So while you're still waiting to storm, a bounce spell can be a tempo play, and then the turn you go off, it gains the text "draw target sphinx".
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsOh it's absolutely on the list for cards to go in the deck. I don't change my lists until I have the cards in hand, though, so it's not there yet.
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GWU Angus Mackenzie's Fog of War GWU / B Sheoldred's Sleepless Cemetery B / R Ashling's Purifying Pilgrimage R
U Unesh's Sphinx Storm U / R Ib's Goblins: What It Says On The Tin R / UR Okaun & Zndrsplt Flip Out UR
Oathbreaker: UB Ashiok's Persistent Nightmare UB
Sorry. I didn't see it under the Ramp/Big Mana cards.
I'm still curious to know if you ever tried running some of the Changelings for the Sphinx slots. It's not like they are all-stars on their own, but I would think that some of the same principals that apply to Edgar Markov Vampires would apply here; that almost any cheap Sphinx becomes instantly playable due to the trigger. Amoeboid Changeling and Shapesharer seem like they could be good.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
I haven't tried them, but honestly, I'm just not interested in them. The upside of my creatures being Sphinxes is that they all have reasonable flying bodies, and with Unesh out, 4 CMC Sphinxes only cost 2 anyway, so the value of a naturally cheap changeling isn't really worth it. The deck really isn't that interested in more 1-cost sphinxes.
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GWU Angus Mackenzie's Fog of War GWU / B Sheoldred's Sleepless Cemetery B / R Ashling's Purifying Pilgrimage R
U Unesh's Sphinx Storm U / R Ib's Goblins: What It Says On The Tin R / UR Okaun & Zndrsplt Flip Out UR
Oathbreaker: UB Ashiok's Persistent Nightmare UB
Dragonlover: Mono-White Mono-Legends: No fixed Commander (but it might be a dragon sometimes)
I have a confession to make. I added the "it might be a dragon sometimes" part. It just felt important to me that Dragonlover have maximum concentration of dragon decks. But this isn't actually a dragon deck. This is a fat stack of white legendary creatures, all of which are ready to lead at a moment's notice. Do you love seeing this many legends? Or do all the Kamigawa cards scare you away?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Ok, but what's your favorite mono-white legend of all time?
The only one I've played to reasonable success; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben White Weenie. 1v1 play.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
How well does it play under each commander? Are there some that are just far and away better than the rest? How many different commanders have you actually gotten to play with so far and do the games feel at all different for each different commander? Or does the deck always feel similar with the commander being always accessible making a somewhat insignificant impact to the playstyle of the deck?
A couple of my favourite white legends could be nice here - Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker and Thalia, Heretic Cathar. And how would you feel about adding a giant eldrazi horror with Bruna, the Fading Light and Gisela. the Broken Blade. They're noth decent legends in their own right, and Bruna can keep your guys in play.
Also, Sword of the Animist is legendary. White needs all the ramp it can get.
Even on theme, I think a bunch of the legendary creature choices are just extremely weak, I'd cut Masako the Humorless, Takeno, Samurai General, Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho, Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo, Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon", Sensei Golden-Tail, Hikari, Twilight Guardian, Hope of Ghirapur
I'd replace them with some combination of Bruna, the Fading Light, Gisela, the Broken Blade, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Odric, Lunarch Marshal, Hixus, Prison Warden, Baird, Steward of Argive, Mageta the Lion, Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker, Patron of the Kitsune, Reya Dawnbringer, Sram, Senior Edificer, Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, Thalia, Heretic Cathar, God-Eternal Oketra, or Kataki, War's Wage
Planeswalkers have never felt particularly legendary to me. So honestly, I'd cut most of them too. Specifically Ajani Goldmane, Gideon, Champion of Justice, Ajani Steadfast, and Elspeth Tirel for sure but I don't really care for most of the others much either.
Azor's Gateway, Oketra's Monument, Sword of the Animist, Tamiyo's Journal, The Immortal Sun, Thran Temporal Gateway are the only legendary ramp/card advantage artifacts that I found. I'd certainly slot all 6 of them in.
Glancing through legendary lands I'd also add Geier Reach Sanitarium, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
In its current state the most meaningful feedback I can give is to pick a more concrete direction for the deck (aggro, midrange, control etc.) and go from there. I think you will get better feedback that way.
Personally I would go in on the white weenie approach that Weebo highlighted in the deck thread. White definitely has a critical mass of good aggressive legends that could support this while keeping the overall theme of mono white legends intact.
This made me laugh, so thankyou!
I first came up with the idea for the deck about seven years ago, and built it about five years ago, which is why there's such a preponderance of Kamigawa in there. Since then I've had a slightly erratic involvement in MTG and haven't necessarily picked up new cards every set/managed to get my hands on the new precons for the year.
Many of the card choices you guys have presented do make sense, so I'm not going to answer each one individually, but I am going to question the attitude of 'What does it do? It's going in a million directions? Its slow and unfocused'
It plays guys at every point on the curve (pretty much) and they're all white legends. Yes, there's a bunch of wraths. No, I don't have to windmill slam a wrath as soon as I draw it. How can I have a more defined strategy than that when I can't depend on any given commander being in the command zone? And yes, it does play differently depending who's in the zone. For example, if I got Thalia I'm probably looking to go wide whereas Akroma is aiming for the commander damage kill. People also react to the deck differently depending on who I put down. Nobody is that scared by Cho-Manno, but Elesh Norn is a different matter entirely, even though they know it's the exact same deck in both games.
I wouldn't say any given commander is better than any other, especially now I jettisoned the Myojin, mainly because of the power differential I mentioned. The worse a commander is, the more I can fly under the radar early game seems to be the general way it plays out.
Dragonlover
Lathliss Dragon Queen - All dragons all the time!
Mono-White Mono-Legends
Ruhan of the Fomori
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
Storrev, Devkarin Lich
Maybe Oketra's Monument and Sword of the Animist?
Honor-Worn Shaku needs to be in here.
As an Aside... can we maybe put the name/type of deck in the title of the thread?
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Also, I agree with Dunharrow - title of deck/thread being considered in the title of the Random thread would be helpful.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsIf you trade out the defensive cards for [lower CMC] aggressive ones, you're still going to have a lot of variety in your games. Some games you'll play a few little guys and buff them up, some games you'll see more token production and swarm even more, some games will be voltron, some games will be walker heavy. The games you'll be reducing are the ones where you have a general that wants to sit back on defense while you draw a bunch of anthems, or the games where you start with a reasonable hand of a few lands and a few spells then draw half a dozen high CMC bombs in a row.
This is the first thing that came to my mind. I think that new Oketra is going to end up being one of the best multiplayer mono-white commanders in the format.
I otherwise recommend Linvala, Keeper of Silence and maybe an Honor-Worn Shaku.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Can do. I was like "yeah, I can throw the user and general in the title or something" and wouldn't you know "no fixed general" is the current deck. Lol.
Weatherlight, Urza’s Tome, and Helm of the Host can all generate card advantage while being on theme.
The Ur-Dragon (WUBRG) - Changeling Combo Tribal
Chromium (WUB) - Artifact Beats
Progenitus (WUBRG) - Dredge
Damia, Sage of Stone (GBU) - Elf-storm Tendrils
My Cube Unpowered
My Peasant-ish/Tribal-ish Cube
1 Hope of Ghirapur
1 Swords to Plowshares
Two-drops
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Eight-and-a-Half Tails
1 Heart of Kiran
1 Konda's Banner
1 Sensei Golden-Tail
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Three-drops
1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
1 Godsend
1 Hall of Triumph
1 Helm of Triumph
1 Lieutenant Kirtar
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Masako the Humorless
1 Oathkeeper, Takeno's Daisho
1 Oblation
1 Opal-Eye, Konda's Yojimbo
1 Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
1 Day of Destiny
1 Day of Judgment
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon, Champion of Justice
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Jazal Goldmane
1 Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon"
1 Odric, Master Tactician
1 Shield of Kaldra
1 Sword of Kaldra
1 Weatherlight
1 Wrath of God
Five-drops
1 Avacyn, Guardian Angel
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Gideon Jura
1 Heroes' Podium
1 Hikari, Twilight Guardian
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
1 Urza's Ruinous Blast
1 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Austere Command
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Kirtar's Wrath
1 Takeno, Samurai General
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Seven-drops
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Hour of Reckoning
1 Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
1 Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Eight-drops
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Parhelion II
1 Reverse the Sands
Nine-drops
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
X-cost
1 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
So,
1: 2
2: 6
3: 13
4: 15
5: 8
6: 6
7: 5
8: 4
9: 1
X: 1
Needs moar mana rocks. As an added benefit, they're still "historic".
Why even have Gideon, Champion of Justice? Why run Konda's Banner outside of a tribal or token deck? Here it's just a Glorious Anthem that does nothing for artifact creatures and does something extra for whatever the most common creature type is among your white creatures. Of all the boardwipes, Hour of Reckoning seems the most useless, since you don't really have that many token makers. And without more t abilities, Masako the Humorless plays like "bad vigilance".
I should add, Akroma's Memorial holds a special place for me. You see, it can be worse than useless in some decks (Ghave, Uril, Marath) and is only useful in others (basically any deck running Pestilence-type effects, damage-based wipes, and things like Diaochan). Outside of those decks, it's usually just overcosted for what it does.
On phasing:
tstorm823: Olivia- Hasty Reanimator
This deck uses every piece of the animal that is Olivia, Mobilized for War (AKA the good Olivia). She lets you discard cards to give haste and +1/+1 to your creatures, and all I want is to dump my hand and smash face as hard as possible. To demonstrate, I've got 3 new toys from WAR that haven't made it into the decklist thread as of writing this, that demonstrate nicely what the gameplan is. Nehed, Dreadhorde Champion attacks on turn 4 as a 6/5 hasty trampler that discards my hand and draws that many and makes free mana. God-Eternal Bontu comes down the next turn as a 6/7 haste menace that sacrifices my permanents and lets me draw that many. And then having rapidly dumped a dozen or so cards into the graveyard, I can Command the Dreadhorde all the creature cards back, probably also with haste. As I've told people who've borrowed this deck from me in the past, whatever decision seems riskiest is almost certainly correct. The right way to Rakdos.