Totally hyped for this card, the discount makes draw spells with higher CMC quite viable. Note that it refers to drawing the first card eachturn, any ideas to get that consistently? Any ideas in which direction to build?
Combos? Fun Additions? Cards that get incredibly mean with Kefnet? Let's Brew!
Library of Leng is an interesting card for this as well. All you need is a discard outlet.
But the rulings on Library of Leng are tricky, I'm getting clarification in the rulings section for help on this.
But I assume you can use things like Merfolk Looter to discard your spell to the top of library.
Also there are a ton of "draw a card and discard a card" instants and sorcery, and these are perfect for getting God-Eternal Kefnet ability to trigger in opponents turns. There are too many for listing them all right now. But these should be the bread and butter of getting an engine going period for the deck.
This commander reminds me a lot of Rashmi, Eternities Crafter where you are trying to set up spells for each opponents turns to get value. Rashmi can make it so you don't spend any mana, where as Kefnet is cost reduction.
Man, this is the third general I'm building from this set. Wotc's doing something right I guess.
Brainstorm and Dream Cache both let you repeatedly cast any instant/sorcery once every turn cycle, as long as you have a way to draw a card at instant speed. This "combo" is what the 75% Kefnet deck I'm building will use as a potential win condition rather than infinite turns or something like Paradox Engine + Isochron Scepter/Chaos Wand, which I considered but decided would be too repetitive and wasn't really playing to the commander or theme (well the infinite turns do, but they do it too well).
To explain, in case it isn't clear: use Kefnet to "Miracle" one of either Brainstorm or Cache off the top of your deck (which can be setup with Mystical Tutor, Long-Term Plans, Scroll Rack, various Scry effects, as well as Brainstorm putting Dream Cache on top or vice versa). Both cost one mana to cast a copy off a Miracle thanks to Kefnet. With that copy, put the Brainstorm/Cache you just drew on top, and then a powerful spell you want to cast (i.e. Bribery) on top of that. Then cast an Opt, a Quicken, use a Merfolk Looter activation, whatever way you can draw on someone else's turn and Miracle your powerful spell. When it comes back to your turn, Miracle the Brainstorm/Dream Cache again and repeat. You can also instead Miracle Brainstorm/Cache on someone else's turn and the powerful spell on your turn, it's all up to how you set it up and what makes sense for the situation.
You aren't actually casting either Brainstorm/Dream Cache or the powerful spell out of your hand ever, you are just copying them, so as long as Kefnet sticks in play and as long as you successfully continue to "Miracle" the Brainstorm/Dream Cache, your opponents can't stop you. Blatant Thievery everyone every turn, keep casting Cyclonic Rift overloaded, make a giant army with Rise from the Tides at instant speed. Eventually you'll either die, Kefnet will get answered, someone will Wheel and disrupt your hand, or your powerful spells will end the game.
There's a similar trick to the one I outlined above that can be done with Riverwise Augur and Ghostly Flicker (technically anyflickereffectworks, but Ghostly Flicker is the best). "Miracle" Ghostly Flicker, exiling the Augur and any other target (doing it to a land makes Flicker cost effectively 0 mana thanks to Kefnet's reduction), then with Augur's ETB trigger, put Ghostly Flicker + whatever on top, setting up a Miracle spell and also continuing the ability to flicker the Augur. The two-target flicker effects also work decently with multiple Archaeomancer effects (flicker two ETB spell recursion creatures, get back the flicker effect + a counter or w/e) and can protect Kefnet from some removal.
As a general note, slow cantrips like Clairvoyance, Portent, and Arcane Denial seem really powerful with God-Eternal Kefnet because they are card draw spells that you can "Miracle" into off Kefnet (Arcane Denial can be Miracle'd into via a cantrip in response to a spell), which then trigger another card draw effect on someone else's turn, letting you chain together "Miracles" without actually needing to cast another cantrip or use a loot effect everytime you want to Miracle.
Miracling Submerge lets you cast the copy for 0 as long as someone has a Forest.
Impulse would normally get played in these sorts of decks, but Telling Time seems better with its ability to set up for Kefnet (plus Impulse doesn't draw).
If someone really wanted to play an extra turn card in this deck and wanted to play the least abusive but still usable version of that effect, Temporal Trespass is the card to use. You can potentially take two extra turns in a row off of Miracling it + casting it with a stocked graveyard to kill the table using a board of drakes from Talrand, Sky Summoner, a buffed up up Kefnet, or an army stolen by Clone Legion or what have you, so it's still quite powerful with the right setup, but going infinite requires 10 mana with Scroll Rack or 9 with Jace, the Mind Sculptor, making it a lot harder to pull off than most other Time Walks. It's the only extra turn effect I'm considering running just because getting to that much mana should end the game, and thus it won't happen with consistency + it makes it a lot harder to have mana up to protect the combo, so it's more fair for less competitive playgroups.
Library of Leng is an interesting card for this as well. All you need is a discard outlet.
But the rulings on Library of Leng are tricky, I'm getting clarification in the rulings section for help on this.
But I assume you can use things like Merfolk Looter to discard your spell to the top of library.
It will for Looter. It will not work on something like Stronghold Machinist or Mind Over Matter, though, because those are costs. It also won't work if something says "you may discard a card". Subjunctive makes it optional. Same thing if your opponent uses Painful Quandary or Torment of Hailfire: The fact that you can choose another option means the effect isn't forcing you.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It also won't work if something says "you may discard a card". Subjunctive makes it optional. Same thing if your opponent uses Painful Quandary or Torment of Hailfire: The fact that you can choose another option means the effect isn't forcing you.
Library of Leng has gotten Errata that replaces the "forces" with "causes", so it will work with Painful Quandary or Torment of Hailfire or may discard, as long as those are effects and not costs.
It now reads
"You have no maximum hand size.
If an effect causes you to discard a card, discard it, but you may put it on top of your library instead of into your graveyard."
and not "If an effect forces you".
This is the decklist I'm piloting at the moment. It's far from perfect, but it is quite ugly to play against:
I don't think this one belongs in the cEDH forum, because it's lacking a lot of artifact ramp, like Mana Crypt or the commander legal Moxes, or JtMS, but it's getting better at what it wants to do.
I plan on getting my hands on an Exclude, a Sapphire Diamond and a Nexus of Fate (when the rotation hits), so it gets even more consistent.
What do you think?
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Totally hyped for this card, the discount makes draw spells with higher CMC quite viable. Note that it refers to drawing the first card eachturn, any ideas to get that consistently? Any ideas in which direction to build?
Combos? Fun Additions? Cards that get incredibly mean with Kefnet? Let's Brew!
I think God-Eternal Kefnet is best as a draw go control commander. Idk about actual win cons and the likes, maybe Blue Sun's Zenith/Laboratory Maniac/Jace, Wielder of Mysteries things?
Since God-Eternal Kefnet will work best with top deck manipulation, i'd suggest sifting through Rashmi, Eternities Crafter, Yennett, Cryptic Sovereign deck lists to get an idea what so called staples would be.
God-Eternal Kefnet + Brainstorm is quite hilarious. Keep placing Brainstorm back on top of the deck.
I'd make sure to play with Future Sight (and Magus of the Future) to not have to work too hard.
Talent of the Telepath, mills and can play an opponent's Sorcery/Instant that got milled. Two if Spell Mastery is met.
Spelltwine would also be good.
Mystical Tutor imprinted on Isochron Scepter. Spy Network is another choice since you gain intel on the opponent while fixing your topdeck.
Soothsaying you can sink mana to fix your top deck or shuffle it.
As pointed above Scroll Rack for the same thing.
Along these lines..
Riverwise Augur can be used to try and get indefinite triggers by using "return to hand" or "play". Crystal Shard, Eratic Portal, Equilibrium, Cloudstone Curio, are some that come to mind.
Brainstorm, Dream Cache are spells that allow you to put cards back on top. If you can combine with Isochron Scepter and Brainstorm.
Graveyard retrieval like Archaeomancer, Mnemonic Wall, Salvager of Secrets again using the "return to hand" cards for indefinite use.
Mystical Tutor and Personal Tutor.
Library of Leng is an interesting card for this as well. All you need is a discard outlet.
But the rulings on Library of Leng are tricky, I'm getting clarification in the rulings section for help on this.
But I assume you can use things like Merfolk Looter to discard your spell to the top of library.
Also there are a ton of "draw a card and discard a card" instants and sorcery, and these are perfect for getting God-Eternal Kefnet ability to trigger in opponents turns. There are too many for listing them all right now. But these should be the bread and butter of getting an engine going period for the deck.
This commander reminds me a lot of Rashmi, Eternities Crafter where you are trying to set up spells for each opponents turns to get value. Rashmi can make it so you don't spend any mana, where as Kefnet is cost reduction.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Jace's Sanctum reduces the cost of Instant and Sorcery by 1 and gives a scry 1 for playing them. It costs 4 mana to play.
Prognostic Sphinx can scry 3 when it attacks.
Retreat to Coralhelm scry 1 when you play a land.
Sigiled Starfish can be tapped to scry 1
Isolated Watchtower can scry and help get a basic land into play if an opponent has more lands than you.
Codex Shredder can get rid of cards off the top deck amd be sacced to get back a card.
Explorer's Scope for land drop and clear them off top deck.
Lens of Clarity is also helpful.
Brainstorm and Dream Cache both let you repeatedly cast any instant/sorcery once every turn cycle, as long as you have a way to draw a card at instant speed. This "combo" is what the 75% Kefnet deck I'm building will use as a potential win condition rather than infinite turns or something like Paradox Engine + Isochron Scepter/Chaos Wand, which I considered but decided would be too repetitive and wasn't really playing to the commander or theme (well the infinite turns do, but they do it too well).
To explain, in case it isn't clear: use Kefnet to "Miracle" one of either Brainstorm or Cache off the top of your deck (which can be setup with Mystical Tutor, Long-Term Plans, Scroll Rack, various Scry effects, as well as Brainstorm putting Dream Cache on top or vice versa). Both cost one mana to cast a copy off a Miracle thanks to Kefnet. With that copy, put the Brainstorm/Cache you just drew on top, and then a powerful spell you want to cast (i.e. Bribery) on top of that. Then cast an Opt, a Quicken, use a Merfolk Looter activation, whatever way you can draw on someone else's turn and Miracle your powerful spell. When it comes back to your turn, Miracle the Brainstorm/Dream Cache again and repeat. You can also instead Miracle Brainstorm/Cache on someone else's turn and the powerful spell on your turn, it's all up to how you set it up and what makes sense for the situation.
You aren't actually casting either Brainstorm/Dream Cache or the powerful spell out of your hand ever, you are just copying them, so as long as Kefnet sticks in play and as long as you successfully continue to "Miracle" the Brainstorm/Dream Cache, your opponents can't stop you. Blatant Thievery everyone every turn, keep casting Cyclonic Rift overloaded, make a giant army with Rise from the Tides at instant speed. Eventually you'll either die, Kefnet will get answered, someone will Wheel and disrupt your hand, or your powerful spells will end the game.
There's a similar trick to the one I outlined above that can be done with Riverwise Augur and Ghostly Flicker (technically any flicker effect works, but Ghostly Flicker is the best). "Miracle" Ghostly Flicker, exiling the Augur and any other target (doing it to a land makes Flicker cost effectively 0 mana thanks to Kefnet's reduction), then with Augur's ETB trigger, put Ghostly Flicker + whatever on top, setting up a Miracle spell and also continuing the ability to flicker the Augur. The two-target flicker effects also work decently with multiple Archaeomancer effects (flicker two ETB spell recursion creatures, get back the flicker effect + a counter or w/e) and can protect Kefnet from some removal.
As a general note, slow cantrips like Clairvoyance, Portent, and Arcane Denial seem really powerful with God-Eternal Kefnet because they are card draw spells that you can "Miracle" into off Kefnet (Arcane Denial can be Miracle'd into via a cantrip in response to a spell), which then trigger another card draw effect on someone else's turn, letting you chain together "Miracles" without actually needing to cast another cantrip or use a loot effect everytime you want to Miracle.
Blink of an Eye and Into the Roil become UU: Bounce almost anything, draw a card when Miracle'd off Kefnet.
Miracling Submerge lets you cast the copy for 0 as long as someone has a Forest.
Impulse would normally get played in these sorts of decks, but Telling Time seems better with its ability to set up for Kefnet (plus Impulse doesn't draw).
If someone really wanted to play an extra turn card in this deck and wanted to play the least abusive but still usable version of that effect, Temporal Trespass is the card to use. You can potentially take two extra turns in a row off of Miracling it + casting it with a stocked graveyard to kill the table using a board of drakes from Talrand, Sky Summoner, a buffed up up Kefnet, or an army stolen by Clone Legion or what have you, so it's still quite powerful with the right setup, but going infinite requires 10 mana with Scroll Rack or 9 with Jace, the Mind Sculptor, making it a lot harder to pull off than most other Time Walks. It's the only extra turn effect I'm considering running just because getting to that much mana should end the game, and thus it won't happen with consistency + it makes it a lot harder to have mana up to protect the combo, so it's more fair for less competitive playgroups.
It will for Looter. It will not work on something like Stronghold Machinist or Mind Over Matter, though, because those are costs. It also won't work if something says "you may discard a card". Subjunctive makes it optional. Same thing if your opponent uses Painful Quandary or Torment of Hailfire: The fact that you can choose another option means the effect isn't forcing you.
If we're looting, Thought Reflection and Alhammarret's Archive.
On phasing:
I wish it put the revealed card on the bottom of your library or something like that.
Thread | Draft
Library of Leng has gotten Errata that replaces the "forces" with "causes", so it will work with Painful Quandary or Torment of Hailfire or may discard, as long as those are effects and not costs.
It now reads
"You have no maximum hand size.
If an effect causes you to discard a card, discard it, but you may put it on top of your library instead of into your graveyard."
and not "If an effect forces you".
This is the decklist I'm piloting at the moment. It's far from perfect, but it is quite ugly to play against:
1 God-Eternal Kefnet
//Artifact
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Caged Sun
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Hedron Archive
1 Library of Leng
1 Mind Stone
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
//Creature
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Reckless Scholar
1 Riverwise Augur
1 Spellseeker
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Trinket Mage
1 Zephyr Scribe
//Enchantment
1 Imprisoned in the Moon
1 Jace's Sanctum
1 Propaganda
1 Rhystic Study
1 Skywise Teachings
1 The Mirari Conjecture
1 Aetherize
1 Brainstorm
1 Cancel
1 Censor
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Desertion
1 Disallow
1 Essence Scatter
1 Frantic Search
1 Fumble
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nullify
1 Polymorphist's Jest
1 Quicken
1 Remand
1 Rethink
1 Rewind
1 Snap
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Tragic Lesson
1 Desert of the Mindful
1 Glacial Chasm
28 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Nephalia Academy
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Remote Isle
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tolaria West
//Planeswalker
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
//Sorcery
1 Baral's Expertise
1 Concentrate
1 Contingency Plan
1 Fabricate
1 Karn's Temporal Sundering
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Pull from the Deep
1 Serum Visions
1 Time Warp
Cause I am. I'm tinkering a lot with it lately and assembled a more or less new list:
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Desert of the Mindful
1 Glacial Chasm
28 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Nephalia Academy
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Remote Isle
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tolaria West
//Artifacts
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Hedron Archive
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sky Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Thought Vessel
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Back to Basics
1 Counterbalance
1 Future Sight
1 Propaganda
1 Rhystic Study
1 Soothsaying
//Instants
1 Aetherize
1 Arcane Denial
1 Blink of an Eye
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brainstorm
1 Censor
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Disallow
1 Essence Scatter
1 Evacuation
1 Frantic Search
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
1 Into the Roil
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nullify
1 Opt
1 Remand
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Baral's Expertise
1 Beacon of Tomorrows
1 Dream Cache
1 Fabricate
1 Karn's Temporal Sundering
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Portent
1 Preordain
1 Pull from the Deep
1 Serum Visions
1 Time Warp
//Planeswalker
1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
//Creatures
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Reckless Scholar
1 Riverwise Augur
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Spellseeker
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Tribute Mage
1 Zephyr Scribe
//Commander
1 God-Eternal Kefnet
I don't think this one belongs in the cEDH forum, because it's lacking a lot of artifact ramp, like Mana Crypt or the commander legal Moxes, or JtMS, but it's getting better at what it wants to do.
I plan on getting my hands on an Exclude, a Sapphire Diamond and a Nexus of Fate (when the rotation hits), so it gets even more consistent.
What do you think?