Has anyone played in a group that had an established system for how wishes function? I've never been in a group that had one, to me it seems like the rule is a ban on wishes then an invition to the group for them to figure out a solution.
Furthermore, it just seems odd to me that for these cards alone their is a special rule to turn them off unless players decide how they should function.
Should we have a rule that says extra turn cards don't do anything unless the group agrees on their scope? Do you get an extra turn? Do you make a player skip their turn?
What about with color identity? Are Extort cards not permitted unless the group agrees upon them being in monocolor decks or limited only to Orzhov?
Nah, we don't have that in EDH. The RC has in all other circumstances let the cards function as they are printed y WotC, which means that extra turns do what they say as well as Extort's color identiy matches what is printed in the card. Wishes say clearly say that "You choose a card from outside the game" and add it to your hand. They should function as printed too.
You see, this is what gets me, is it really that difficult to establish a system with a group? For mine it was one guy saying he was going to use wishes and we all talked for a couple minutes and decided that anyone running wishes could search whatever they had on them in the room. Its only a de facto ban if members of your group don't like them. There is even precedent for this specific group of cards in that WotC has special rules for how they work in tournaments. None of the other examples you gave are even close to what wishes are and the rules around them.
And I believe this rule is needed. Wishes, unfettered, easily start creeping into bannable territory, as their ability to just search up a suite of random hate cards interacts poorly with the format (because it lets you run narrow but powerful color hosers without taking up deckslots in a format defined by color limitations), because they let you effectively run multiple copies of a card since you can search for a copy that wasn't in your deck (which defies the singleton spirit of the format), and because it can lead to undesirable game states if you don't set limits (let me go into my room and search my disorganized binders for this card, be back in 20). They are uniquely positioned to cause problems, yet they have numerous fair uses. The RC's rule for them seems to me to simply be a "don't be a dick" rule, reminding players that this is the sort of thing that should be discussed in a social, casual format.
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It doesn't say they do nothing, it says that you need to discuss the scope of what you can search for with the playgroup beforehand. Maybe you have a wishboard, or a stack of 150 Eldrazi for Spawnsire, or everything in your backpack, the group needs to agree to it before hand.
"Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander[...]". As written, the default mode of Wishes is "they don't work". That's all well and good if you want to house rule them, but if you want to play EDH by the book, Wishes are legal cards that have no game text on them. Which is both confusing and extremely unnecessary.
Let's talk about the whole color hoser argument that keeps coming up.
Let's say that for the sake of argument the RC allowed wishes to retrieve any card you own outside the game, so you'd actually be searching your entire collection and not from a small wishboard. Since players can have dozens of cards to choose from, undoubtedly some situations would come up where getting a strong hoser would be advantageous, even if it may be infrequent. I can absolutly see how using wishes to get a powerful color hoser like Tsunami, Anarchy, or Choke could be a very nagative moment for the player getting hosed.
Yet, this isn't an argument against all the wishes. This is a strike against Burning Wish and to a lesser extent Golden Wish. We still have 4 other cards that are wishes and cannot be used to grab a sorcery or an enchantment. Someone using Living Wish to grab Witchstalker is not the equivalent of somone using Burning wish for Tsunami.
It doesn't say they do nothing, it says that you need to discuss the scope of what you can search for with the playgroup beforehand. Maybe you have a wishboard, or a stack of 150 Eldrazi for Spawnsire, or everything in your backpack, the group needs to agree to it before hand.
"Abilities which refer to other cards owned outside the game (Wishes, Spawnsire, Research, Ring of Ma'ruf) do not function in Commander[...]". As written, the default mode of Wishes is "they don't work". That's all well and good if you want to house rule them, but if you want to play EDH by the book, Wishes are legal cards that have no game text on them. Which is both confusing and extremely unnecessary.
Some play groups, such as mine, find it logistically impossible to negotiate the rules prior to games and therefore a rule that says cards can't do X without such negotiation is functionally the same as format specific errata for those cards. If (some) wish cards really have the potential to be that problematic, simply ban them. Any play group in a position to be able to negotiate the use of banned cards is likely also in the position to be able to negotiate how those cards can be used.
Let's talk about the whole color hoser argument that keeps coming up.
Let's say that for the sake of argument the RC allowed wishes to retrieve any card you own outside the game, so you'd actually be searching your entire collection and not from a small wishboard. Since players can have dozens of cards to choose from, undoubtedly some situations would come up where getting a strong hoser would be advantageous, even if it may be infrequent. I can absolutly see how using wishes to get a powerful color hoser like Tsunami, Anarchy, or Choke could be a very nagative moment for the player getting hosed.
Yet, this isn't an argument against all the wishes. This is a strike against Burning Wish and to a lesser extent Golden Wish. We still have 4 other cards that are wishes and cannot be used to grab a sorcery or an enchantment. Someone using Living Wish to grab Witchstalker is not the equivalent of somone using Burning wish for Tsunami.
But at the same time, this isn't a real problem, because that player could have just been running one or more of those cards anyways.
I agree with you osieorb18, but I think that the counter would be that Wishes allow you to play them without the downside of having to dedicate a spell slot (you do have to dedicate a Wishboard slot), and to not waste a draw on them when they are not needed. It basically trades some slight tempo loss for removing the entire downside of playing them. I would just say, don't play cards that anger or upset your friends. Mine would be upset if I played those cards, so I don't play them in my Wishboard. I think this is not a problem inherent in Wishes, I think this is a problem inherent in the personalities of some players. You can't really fix players. Some rules just polish over the problems those player create, making those players slightly more palatable.
Seeing as this is a casual format, I was thinking how great it would be to actually use Wish cards (like Living Wish) as they were originally intended in Judgement, where you literally delve through your collection to find a card you own from outside the game and put it in your hand. I can't really thinking of another format where it would be more fair to use this way, personally.
Obviously, a quick check with your own group of friends is in order.
Why aren't more people playing wish cards? It seems like it would be a lot of fun and would be a powerful tutor to add to most decks, yet I see almost no one using them. Their use would also vary depending on what you have on hand. If you are playing at home, you have more options than if you're playing at your friends' place.
Waiting for someone to sort through their entire collection to find the one perfect card seems like a great way to bring any game to a grinding halt. Double that if they don't know what they're tutoring for.
I'm perfectly happy not seeing wishes in EDH. If I did play with someone who was dead set on running them, I'd insist on a wishboard to keep the time it takes to resolve to a more reasonable level.
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Seeing as this is a casual format, I was thinking how great it would be to actually use Wish cards (like Living Wish) as they were originally intended in Judgement, where you literally delve through your collection to find a card you own from outside the game and put it in your hand. I can't really thinking of another format where it would be more fair to use this way, personally.
Obviously, a quick check with your own group of friends is in order.
Why aren't more people playing wish cards? It seems like it would be a lot of fun and would be a powerful tutor to add to most decks, yet I see almost no one using them. Their use would also vary depending on what you have on hand. If you are playing at home, you have more options than if you're playing at your friends' place.
1) People don't play them because the default rules do not support them.
2) They aren't all that great anyway. For every potentially cool card or niche removal spell that you could run, you always have it in the back of your mind that the card you are wishing for wasn't good enough to make the 99-card maindeck.
3) Some people don't run a lot of tutors either on principal or because they don't want to waste time.
4) The whole point of a "wishboard" is to make the player playing the Wish do the work ahead of time to find the likely targets that they may want to wish for and to have them set aside so that when the time comes it is a quick and easy process. Taking 15 seconds to flip through 10-15 cards you have set aside specifically for that purpose is fine, but spending 15 minutes flipping through binders trying to find the perfect card is an unacceptable waste of everyone's time.
5) What the RC is against is players playing Wishes without prior agreement from the other players, not specifically wishboards. So you have the right idea that checking in with the friends you play with is the correct first step, but I would highly encourage that if a player has a Wish in their deck that they have a wishboard.
Waiting for someone to sort through their entire collection to find the one perfect card seems like a great way to bring any game to a grinding halt. Double that if they don't know what they're tutoring for.
This... I played against the original wish card. It was an absolute pain shortly after that was printed. That was at a time no one really had more than 200 worthwhile cards.
Can you visualize an already slow game of EDH getting bogged down as the player searches through 1,000 or more cards they just happened to bring along?
One of the first times I played EDH in a store, someone cast a wish, looked through their binder, pulled a situationally perfect card that didn't make the cut for their deck... At the time, I didn't know the EDH wishboard policy.
I think it is really unfun.
Moreso because hardly anybody has a wish board because they aren't in the official rules. If you come to a table and tell your group you are going to be able to tutor the perfect card from your collection... they should say no, because they built their deck with more restrictions than you.
Even if it is a 10 card wishboard, I think it is unfair and tell people no when they ask.
i have a box of about 200 random eldrazi cards for the 20 ability on spawnsire of ulamog. Never got to live the dream, but there we have it. It's still something that needs to be done.
At some point, i had started to collect emrakul, the aeons torn so then i could make battle of wits be an actual wincon in EDH. But then i realised that it's going to be a one-off win, that will lead to a massive let-down. once you've seen it, there's nothing more to see.
I did also run death wish in my rakdos suicide RB deck, 'cuz it cuts my life total in half, AND it's usually pretty obvious what you need at that point in time, so finding something shouldn't be that tough.
I think the reason people don't wanna use a wishboard is that it's a sign of serious try-harding. EDH is a casual format. tutors make the decks a lot more consistent, which goes against the casual-ness of the format, AND, it can warp deck building (since you can always have access to a critical piece that you don't need to naturally draw into). i can understand it, but my friends understand when they see the box of eldrazi.
As much as I love the card Mastermind's Acquisition, I am strongly against wishes in the format. I don't see a meaningful distinction between a wishboard and your entire collection other than a wishboard saves a lot of time. Having access to narrow hate cards on like Stench of Evil or Deathgrip that you would otherwise never put into a deck is just too good. In addition, you can simply put duplicates of your entire deck in your wishboard just in case a vital combo piece gets exiled. I see very little gain and a ton of harm happening if they become legal.
That said, your boy here would be the first in line to abuse them if that ever happens.
As much as I love the card Mastermind's Acquisition, I am strongly against wishes in the format. I don't see a meaningful distinction between a wishboard and your entire collection other than a wishboard saves a lot of time. Having access to narrow hate cards on like Stench of Evil or Deathgrip that you would otherwise never put into a deck is just too good. In addition, you can simply put duplicates of your entire deck in your wishboard just in case a vital combo piece gets exiled. I see very little gain and a ton of harm happening if they become legal.
That said, your boy here would be the first in line to abuse them if that ever happens.
Moat people would still require that a wishboard conform to all the other rules for Commander including the Highlander rule, so if a card is in your maindeck it couldn't be in your wishboard and vice versa. It would also need to conform to the color identity rules.
To me, the narrow hate cards would be the biggest problem and one that would only be really solved by agreement between players to not use cards like that. If your playgroup already abides by some level of gentleman's agreement to not run mass-LD, then I don't see why that wouldn't also apply to the Death Wish player not wishing for Stench of Evil. You can't prevent players from abusing a Wish, but I think that there are many different cards out there that would fit this description. Wishes just seem to have a set of crosshairs on them more than others.
i have a box of about 200 random eldrazi cards for the 20 ability on spawnsire of ulamog. Never got to live the dream, but there we have it. It's still something that needs to be done.
Even as someone who is a proponent of wishes, I wouldn't let you cast 200 Eldrazi from a Spawnsire of Ulamog. Commander is still a Highlander format, so getting more than 1 of each Eldrazi doesn't seem right, and any Eldazi already in your deck shouldn't be allowed either.
At some point, i had started to collect emrakul, the aeons torn so then i could make battle of wits be an actual wincon in EDH. But then i realised that it's going to be a one-off win, that will lead to a massive let-down. once you've seen it, there's nothing more to see.
Ok, so this would be the one totally fine exception to my above statement.... making Battle of the Wits EDH-playable is a-ok in my book.
I did also run death wish in my rakdos suicide RB deck, 'cuz it cuts my life total in half, AND it's usually pretty obvious what you need at that point in time, so finding something shouldn't be that tough.
I think the reason people don't wanna use a wishboard is that it's a sign of serious try-harding. EDH is a casual format. tutors make the decks a lot more consistent, which goes against the casual-ness of the format, AND, it can warp deck building (since you can always have access to a critical piece that you don't need to naturally draw into). i can understand it, but my friends understand when they see the box of eldrazi.
If you stick to the Highlander rules, then the card access idea goes away. A card would either need to be in your maindeck or in your wishbaord, but not both.
I wish that wishes still grabbed things from exile. I am still upset that Wizards functionally broke wishes, then immediately went back on their reason why.
Waiting for someone to sort through their entire collection to find the one perfect card seems like a great way to bring any game to a grinding halt. Double that if they don't know what they're tutoring for.
spending 15 minutes flipping through binders trying to find the perfect card is an unacceptable waste of everyone's time.
Yeah, I don't want to sit there while someone searches. Come to the game prepared, and play your deck as best you can. If a card wasn't worth including in the 100 slots available, it shouldn't be worth wishing for either. Not to mention that wishing flies in the face of 100-card deck construction. Unlike other formats with a minimum deck size, we have an exact deck size - no bigger, no smaller. A wishboard essentially gives you 10-15% more cards than all of your opponents. And an unlimited collection to search is even more ridiculous.
Moat people would still require that a wishboard conform to all the other rules for Commander including the Highlander rule, so if a card is in your maindeck it couldn't be in your wishboard and vice versa. It would also need to conform to the color identity rules.
To me, the narrow hate cards would be the biggest problem and one that would only be really solved by agreement between players to not use cards like that... If you stick to the Highlander rules, then the card access idea goes away. A card would either need to be in your maindeck or in your wishbaord, but not both.
I absolutely agree that they would have to conform to the singleton rule and not be able to wish for duplicates of cards already in their decks. But the big question is "How would you enforce that?". How would you possibly be able to tell if their 100-card deck had a copy of whatever they wish for? We don't play with registered decklists, and you can't have someone search their library (a hidden zone) to double-check. Which means we would be left with taking their word for it.
Also agree on the narrow hate cards. The only reason to wish for a card is to get something that applies to the current situation but wasn't good enough to maindeck.
On paper wishes are good.however when it comes to gameplay, not so much. And if you go with your collection, what about spawnsire of ulamog? If you are running a 5 color deck that has spawnsirr, if you pull off his ultimate. That is like what 30 cards? Plus changelings. You do jot have to be running tribal, but your deck becomes tribal.
I absolutely agree that they would have to conform to the singleton rule and not be able to wish for duplicates of cards already in their decks. But the big question is "How would you enforce that?". How would you possibly be able to tell if their 100-card deck had a copy of whatever they wish for? We don't play with registered decklists, and you can't have someone search their library (a hidden zone) to double-check. Which means we would be left with taking their word for it.
It would be the same with taking their word for it that their deck doesn't have any duplicates; they wouldn't really get caught unless they tried to actually play a duplicate card. But if that is our issue, then the whole concept of playing a casual game kinda breaks down.
On paper wishes are good.however when it comes to gameplay, not so much. And if you go with your collection, what about spawnsire of ulamog? If you are running a 5 color deck that has spawnsirr, if you pull off his ultimate. That is like what 30 cards? Plus changelings. You do jot have to be running tribal, but your deck becomes tribal.
I think that we should put into the rules that you can only fetch one of each unique card with the Eldrazi subtype UNLESS you state that you are going to win with Battle of Wits in which case go crazy with grabbing as many as you want but you can't win in any other way #sarcasm #butnotreally #formatlevelerratasucks #iwouldmakeanexceptioninthiscase
And here I thought this was going to be some happy-go-lucky conversation about flipping through trade binders for random cards. I guess I forgot this was the internet!
All kidding aside, I guess I understand the gut-wrenching and resounding "NO" that seems to be forming about this topic. I think we should also have in our casual spirits the idea of being in a relaxed setting and getting something exciting to bring to the table that you wouldn't usually want to put in your deck, but you happen to have on-hand. This is what I mean by "as intended". Maybe I really need to get that Tree of Redemption that's in my trade binder with Living Wish, but the next game it'll be that Emrakul, the Promised End in my other EDH deck.
I think the important thing when playing these cards casually is not to overthink it. Just cast it, get a card you want nearby and come back. Like most tutors, but more random.
This conversation why if they print more wishes, I hope they are in the style of Mastermind's Acquisition, so that, if people aren't ok with a wishboard and/or wishes in general, you still have a card that can still do something inside the deck without having to remove it.
By the way - do people here generally think that wishes take more time than tutors? 'cuz i've seen both take a nutty amount of time.
Quite often, especially newer decks, players generally have this bad habit of casting a demonic tutor, then spend 5 minutes going through their deck trying to find a card they wanna tutor up. We try to make it a point at our playgroup to have a very specific card in mind when tutoring before you cast the tutor. I guess the same thing can be said about wishes, if time is the problematic part of wishes.
I think power level shouldn't be the thing that stops people from using wishes; it should really be up to the 'spirit of the playgroup'. If the playgroup is open to letting you grab 200 eldrazi off a spawnsire, then that's cool. But if they aren't, then you don't need to keep pushing it.
In terms of Wotc printing more wishes, it's mostly for standard (which looks at the sideboard), and limited (the rest of the drafted card pool). It's fine for those formats, and wizards focuses on those formats. So whether or not we like it, we're going to see more of them with time.
Anyone who spends 5 minutes looking for a card in their deck should be attacked. My turns are usually thought up befor it is my turn. I have people think about what to do with cards in hand on their turn. One card should not change your entire game plan unless it is a winning move.
Even if i get wheeled eot before i go. My turn does bot slow down much.
When i tutor. I usually have a card in mind. It may change while j am searching, but board state usually says "you need this card, go find it" usually a board wipe
I am okay with wishes, but if i want a wish board. Show me before game what you can wish for. If o played spawnsire. I would have a small box with one of each eldrazi. I am not going to go win with battle of wits (but in edh, that would awesome.)
By the way - do people here generally think that wishes take more time than tutors? 'cuz i've seen both take a nutty amount of time.
It should be technically less time if you have a wishboard of 10-15 cards as that show a) be less cards to look through than your deck, and b) your choices should already be narrowed down and thought out.
Quite often, especially newer decks, players generally have this bad habit of casting a demonic tutor, then spend 5 minutes going through their deck trying to find a card they wanna tutor up. We try to make it a point at our playgroup to have a very specific card in mind when tutoring before you cast the tutor. I guess the same thing can be said about wishes, if time is the problematic part of wishes.
These people should be kicked in the shins...
I think power level shouldn't be the thing that stops people from using wishes; it should really be up to the 'spirit of the playgroup'. If the playgroup is open to letting you grab 200 eldrazi off a spawnsire, then that's cool. But if they aren't, then you don't need to keep pushing it.
If power level is indeed the issue, then the Wishes and other cards that refer to cards outside the game should just be banned. It would be the same principal as the banning of cards that refer to ante.
I am okay with wishes, but if i want a wish board. Show me before game what you can wish for. If o played spawnsire. I would have a small box with one of each eldrazi. I am not going to go win with battle of wits (but in edh, that would awesome.)
I think that this is probably one of the best arguments for having a wishboard. When you bring up the idea to your playgroup yo can show it to them and they can see the kinds of things that you are potentially wishing for. If they sea Flashfires, Boiling Seas, Anarchy, etc., then I would fully expect people to say no.
I think we should also have in our casual spirits the idea of being in a relaxed setting and getting something exciting to bring to the table that you wouldn't usually want to put in your deck, but you happen to have on-hand.
But you already have 100 slots and decided the card wasn't good enough to mainboard. Deckbuilding does, and should, involve making decisions and trade-offs. You build your deck ahead of time by including the cards you want to play and excluding the cards you don't. Wishes allow for sloppier deckbuilding, wasting time (just imagine if all four players had multiple wishes in their decks), and narrow hate cards that ruin the game for one player but never would have been included in a deck without a wish. Spawnsire is a one card game-ending combo with enough mana and a violation of the singleton rule, and while we have plenty of other cards that also win with enough mana they don't require violating one of the fundamental rules of the format.
With all of those negatives, let me ask you - what positives would wishes bring to the format?
You see, this is what gets me, is it really that difficult to establish a system with a group? For mine it was one guy saying he was going to use wishes and we all talked for a couple minutes and decided that anyone running wishes could search whatever they had on them in the room. Its only a de facto ban if members of your group don't like them. There is even precedent for this specific group of cards in that WotC has special rules for how they work in tournaments. None of the other examples you gave are even close to what wishes are and the rules around them.
And I believe this rule is needed. Wishes, unfettered, easily start creeping into bannable territory, as their ability to just search up a suite of random hate cards interacts poorly with the format (because it lets you run narrow but powerful color hosers without taking up deckslots in a format defined by color limitations), because they let you effectively run multiple copies of a card since you can search for a copy that wasn't in your deck (which defies the singleton spirit of the format), and because it can lead to undesirable game states if you don't set limits (let me go into my room and search my disorganized binders for this card, be back in 20). They are uniquely positioned to cause problems, yet they have numerous fair uses. The RC's rule for them seems to me to simply be a "don't be a dick" rule, reminding players that this is the sort of thing that should be discussed in a social, casual format.
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Let's say that for the sake of argument the RC allowed wishes to retrieve any card you own outside the game, so you'd actually be searching your entire collection and not from a small wishboard. Since players can have dozens of cards to choose from, undoubtedly some situations would come up where getting a strong hoser would be advantageous, even if it may be infrequent. I can absolutly see how using wishes to get a powerful color hoser like Tsunami, Anarchy, or Choke could be a very nagative moment for the player getting hosed.
Yet, this isn't an argument against all the wishes. This is a strike against Burning Wish and to a lesser extent Golden Wish. We still have 4 other cards that are wishes and cannot be used to grab a sorcery or an enchantment. Someone using Living Wish to grab Witchstalker is not the equivalent of somone using Burning wish for Tsunami.
Some play groups, such as mine, find it logistically impossible to negotiate the rules prior to games and therefore a rule that says cards can't do X without such negotiation is functionally the same as format specific errata for those cards. If (some) wish cards really have the potential to be that problematic, simply ban them. Any play group in a position to be able to negotiate the use of banned cards is likely also in the position to be able to negotiate how those cards can be used.
But at the same time, this isn't a real problem, because that player could have just been running one or more of those cards anyways.
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Obviously, a quick check with your own group of friends is in order.
Just to clarify, I'm not talking about "wish boards". They are very clear about this.
Why aren't more people playing wish cards? It seems like it would be a lot of fun and would be a powerful tutor to add to most decks, yet I see almost no one using them. Their use would also vary depending on what you have on hand. If you are playing at home, you have more options than if you're playing at your friends' place.
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I'm perfectly happy not seeing wishes in EDH. If I did play with someone who was dead set on running them, I'd insist on a wishboard to keep the time it takes to resolve to a more reasonable level.
Plus all tutors should be banned to make this format more heart-of-the-cards reliant. =P
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1) People don't play them because the default rules do not support them.
2) They aren't all that great anyway. For every potentially cool card or niche removal spell that you could run, you always have it in the back of your mind that the card you are wishing for wasn't good enough to make the 99-card maindeck.
3) Some people don't run a lot of tutors either on principal or because they don't want to waste time.
4) The whole point of a "wishboard" is to make the player playing the Wish do the work ahead of time to find the likely targets that they may want to wish for and to have them set aside so that when the time comes it is a quick and easy process. Taking 15 seconds to flip through 10-15 cards you have set aside specifically for that purpose is fine, but spending 15 minutes flipping through binders trying to find the perfect card is an unacceptable waste of everyone's time.
5) What the RC is against is players playing Wishes without prior agreement from the other players, not specifically wishboards. So you have the right idea that checking in with the friends you play with is the correct first step, but I would highly encourage that if a player has a Wish in their deck that they have a wishboard.
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This... I played against the original wish card. It was an absolute pain shortly after that was printed. That was at a time no one really had more than 200 worthwhile cards.
Can you visualize an already slow game of EDH getting bogged down as the player searches through 1,000 or more cards they just happened to bring along?
No thanks.
I think it is really unfun.
Moreso because hardly anybody has a wish board because they aren't in the official rules. If you come to a table and tell your group you are going to be able to tutor the perfect card from your collection... they should say no, because they built their deck with more restrictions than you.
Even if it is a 10 card wishboard, I think it is unfair and tell people no when they ask.
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At some point, i had started to collect emrakul, the aeons torn so then i could make battle of wits be an actual wincon in EDH. But then i realised that it's going to be a one-off win, that will lead to a massive let-down. once you've seen it, there's nothing more to see.
I did also run death wish in my rakdos suicide RB deck, 'cuz it cuts my life total in half, AND it's usually pretty obvious what you need at that point in time, so finding something shouldn't be that tough.
I think the reason people don't wanna use a wishboard is that it's a sign of serious try-harding. EDH is a casual format. tutors make the decks a lot more consistent, which goes against the casual-ness of the format, AND, it can warp deck building (since you can always have access to a critical piece that you don't need to naturally draw into). i can understand it, but my friends understand when they see the box of eldrazi.
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That said, your boy here would be the first in line to abuse them if that ever happens.
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Moat people would still require that a wishboard conform to all the other rules for Commander including the Highlander rule, so if a card is in your maindeck it couldn't be in your wishboard and vice versa. It would also need to conform to the color identity rules.
To me, the narrow hate cards would be the biggest problem and one that would only be really solved by agreement between players to not use cards like that. If your playgroup already abides by some level of gentleman's agreement to not run mass-LD, then I don't see why that wouldn't also apply to the Death Wish player not wishing for Stench of Evil. You can't prevent players from abusing a Wish, but I think that there are many different cards out there that would fit this description. Wishes just seem to have a set of crosshairs on them more than others.
Even as someone who is a proponent of wishes, I wouldn't let you cast 200 Eldrazi from a Spawnsire of Ulamog. Commander is still a Highlander format, so getting more than 1 of each Eldrazi doesn't seem right, and any Eldazi already in your deck shouldn't be allowed either.
Ok, so this would be the one totally fine exception to my above statement.... making Battle of the Wits EDH-playable is a-ok in my book.
If you stick to the Highlander rules, then the card access idea goes away. A card would either need to be in your maindeck or in your wishbaord, but not both.
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I absolutely agree that they would have to conform to the singleton rule and not be able to wish for duplicates of cards already in their decks. But the big question is "How would you enforce that?". How would you possibly be able to tell if their 100-card deck had a copy of whatever they wish for? We don't play with registered decklists, and you can't have someone search their library (a hidden zone) to double-check. Which means we would be left with taking their word for it.
Also agree on the narrow hate cards. The only reason to wish for a card is to get something that applies to the current situation but wasn't good enough to maindeck.
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It would be the same with taking their word for it that their deck doesn't have any duplicates; they wouldn't really get caught unless they tried to actually play a duplicate card. But if that is our issue, then the whole concept of playing a casual game kinda breaks down.
I think that we should put into the rules that you can only fetch one of each unique card with the Eldrazi subtype UNLESS you state that you are going to win with Battle of Wits in which case go crazy with grabbing as many as you want but you can't win in any other way #sarcasm #butnotreally #formatlevelerratasucks #iwouldmakeanexceptioninthiscase
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Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
All kidding aside, I guess I understand the gut-wrenching and resounding "NO" that seems to be forming about this topic. I think we should also have in our casual spirits the idea of being in a relaxed setting and getting something exciting to bring to the table that you wouldn't usually want to put in your deck, but you happen to have on-hand. This is what I mean by "as intended". Maybe I really need to get that Tree of Redemption that's in my trade binder with Living Wish, but the next game it'll be that Emrakul, the Promised End in my other EDH deck.
I think the important thing when playing these cards casually is not to overthink it. Just cast it, get a card you want nearby and come back. Like most tutors, but more random.
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Quite often, especially newer decks, players generally have this bad habit of casting a demonic tutor, then spend 5 minutes going through their deck trying to find a card they wanna tutor up. We try to make it a point at our playgroup to have a very specific card in mind when tutoring before you cast the tutor. I guess the same thing can be said about wishes, if time is the problematic part of wishes.
I think power level shouldn't be the thing that stops people from using wishes; it should really be up to the 'spirit of the playgroup'. If the playgroup is open to letting you grab 200 eldrazi off a spawnsire, then that's cool. But if they aren't, then you don't need to keep pushing it.
In terms of Wotc printing more wishes, it's mostly for standard (which looks at the sideboard), and limited (the rest of the drafted card pool). It's fine for those formats, and wizards focuses on those formats. So whether or not we like it, we're going to see more of them with time.
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Even if i get wheeled eot before i go. My turn does bot slow down much.
When i tutor. I usually have a card in mind. It may change while j am searching, but board state usually says "you need this card, go find it" usually a board wipe
I am okay with wishes, but if i want a wish board. Show me before game what you can wish for. If o played spawnsire. I would have a small box with one of each eldrazi. I am not going to go win with battle of wits (but in edh, that would awesome.)
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It should be technically less time if you have a wishboard of 10-15 cards as that show a) be less cards to look through than your deck, and b) your choices should already be narrowed down and thought out.
These people should be kicked in the shins...
If power level is indeed the issue, then the Wishes and other cards that refer to cards outside the game should just be banned. It would be the same principal as the banning of cards that refer to ante.
I think that this is probably one of the best arguments for having a wishboard. When you bring up the idea to your playgroup yo can show it to them and they can see the kinds of things that you are potentially wishing for. If they sea Flashfires, Boiling Seas, Anarchy, etc., then I would fully expect people to say no.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
With all of those negatives, let me ask you - what positives would wishes bring to the format?
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