Would Sin Prodder be good in Neheb edh deck? most decklists that I've seen do run it but they also run a lot of burn spells with x in there cmc, resulting in a majority of the cmc being on the low side since x would be 0 when is revealed from the top of your library. I feel like in a multiplayer game most opponents will take the 2 or 3 damage and make you put it in to your graveyard b/c that is how your deck generates a lot of mana so they could effectively shut your deck down in a way. sure you'll get the occasional 6 drop and they might let you keep it but most time I feel like they will most likely have you bin the card if the cmc is lower than 5. sure you'll be doing damage to get mana with neheb but 2-3 damage to ONE player seems like it won't help out that much.
what do guys think?
When SoI released in 2016, I got fairly hyped over Sin Prodder. Red was generally poor at generating card advantage, and in the right deck an opponent taking the damage to deny the draw can still be positive for your game plan.
However, since then red has seen a significant shift across multiple sets, increasing it's card advantage potential. Is Sin Prodder good in a Neheb deck? Yeah, of course it is. Are there arguably better (more consistent) cards that could be in that slot? Also yes.
When SoI released in 2016, I got fairly hyped over Sin Prodder. Red was generally poor at generating card advantage, and in the right deck an opponent taking the damage to deny the draw can still be positive for your game plan.
However, since then red has seen a significant shift across multiple sets, increasing it's card advantage potential. Is Sin Prodder good in a Neheb deck? Yeah, of course it is. Are there arguably better (more consistent) cards that could be in that slot? Also yes.
The biggest problem with Sin Prodder is, about 35~40% of your deck is lands. That's the crux of Sin Prodder's problem, you need some way to consistently draw expensive cards. Even then, it might just be safer to put them in the graveyard. (That Inferno Titan can just do three to you when it enters and each turn until it's answered.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Not to derail too much, but is menace good (or just okay) in EDH? There are probably better targets than this guy for a Xenagod deck, but I still wonder if menace works well with Xenagod.
The one thing I think works in sin prodder's favor is how the rules work surrounding it, and how they interact with human nature. If you flip some sweet (but not game-ending) 7 drop, you've got to go in turn order to determine who's paying for it. The first guy, not wanting to take 7 and assuming someone else will do it, decides to get greedy and passes. The second guy figures the same. The third guy has no one after him, but resents the first two for pushing the burden onto him, so he passes out of spite, and you get the card. Sweet.
But yeah, the whole land issue is kind of a bummer. At least the body is on-curve, but that doesn't count for a lot around these parts. Can't speak for how it works specifically in neheb, but in my current deck I'd say it's like a C-.
EDIT: a fun way to try to improve the effectiveness - say that whoever DOES pay is also getting smacked with whatever most-dangerous creature/spell you've got lying around. With that technique, you might even be able to get some lands out of the deal
I would say Sin Prodder is cute... but that it can be better or worse depending on the deck. The only X spells in my Rakdos deck are Grenzo, Dungeon Warden and Walking Ballista. The deck is full of huge dragons and demons and eldrazi.
So, more often than not, when he triggers, the question for my opponents is if they want me to have an eldrazi in hand or have my spells cost up to 13 mana less this turn.
I would say that Rakdos is best place for him. Neheb is a close second, I believe, but I think you would need fewer X spells and a few more heavy hitters. Knollspine Dragon, Platinum Angel...
Not to derail too much, but is menace good (or just okay) in EDH? There are probably better targets than this guy for a Xenagod deck, but I still wonder if menace works well with Xenagod.
If you're in RG, then I should note that creatures with menace are unblockable with Familiar Ground, since they can't simultaneously be blocked by exactly one creature and more than one creature. But first, we need to talk about parallel universes. 🅰️/2
The one thing I think works in sin prodder's favor is how the rules work surrounding it, and how they interact with human nature. If you flip some sweet (but not game-ending) 7 drop, you've got to go in turn order to determine who's paying for it. The first guy, not wanting to take 7 and assuming someone else will do it, decides to get greedy and passes. The second guy figures the same. The third guy has no one after him, but resents the first two for pushing the burden onto him, so he passes out of spite, and you get the card. Sweet.
But yeah, the whole land issue is kind of a bummer. At least the body is on-curve, but that doesn't count for a lot around these parts. Can't speak for how it works specifically in neheb, but in my current deck I'd say it's like a C-.
Well, you can use Crucible of Worlds, but (as you may know by now) I don't like using one card that is good only with another card that isn't my Commander, especially in red, the color with the fewest tutors.
Anyway, I do run Sin Prodder as he tends to be useful. Throw in a damage doubler and its basically free card draw.
That's an option. You still face the land issue. Though you should always think of, e.g., Browbeat, as saving 2 on Lava Axe, rather than saving U on Concentrate, and colorshifting the whole thing to red. It only becomes a Concentrate when everyone is low enough that it would kill them. That's my general experience with punishers.
This one is in-between. It can still be bad if you're not manipulating your library (which would mean you're probably in green or blue) or recurring cards (which would probably mean you're in green or black), and all three of those colors are better at draw. (And no, you're not going to get someone to take 4 just to put Anger in your graveyard.) It is a trigger, one which happens once during each of your turns, though.
I'd probably put it in Daretti if anywhere. At least then you can use all those cards in your graveyard, provided they're artifacts.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Daretti strikes me as a good home for it, as well as ruric thar. Ruric thar is home to big beaters and likes card draw that isn't spells (so you don't get domed yourself for six). Additionally, it seems a pretty good addition to feldon of the third path.
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Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
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what do guys think?
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
However, since then red has seen a significant shift across multiple sets, increasing it's card advantage potential. Is Sin Prodder good in a Neheb deck? Yeah, of course it is. Are there arguably better (more consistent) cards that could be in that slot? Also yes.
The biggest problem with Sin Prodder is, about 35~40% of your deck is lands. That's the crux of Sin Prodder's problem, you need some way to consistently draw expensive cards. Even then, it might just be safer to put them in the graveyard. (That Inferno Titan can just do three to you when it enters and each turn until it's answered.)
On phasing:
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
But yeah, the whole land issue is kind of a bummer. At least the body is on-curve, but that doesn't count for a lot around these parts. Can't speak for how it works specifically in neheb, but in my current deck I'd say it's like a C-.
EDIT: a fun way to try to improve the effectiveness - say that whoever DOES pay is also getting smacked with whatever most-dangerous creature/spell you've got lying around. With that technique, you might even be able to get some lands out of the deal
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
You basically need a land tax to go with him. Otherwise, outpost siege is just better.
I would say Sin Prodder is cute... but that it can be better or worse depending on the deck. The only X spells in my Rakdos deck are Grenzo, Dungeon Warden and Walking Ballista. The deck is full of huge dragons and demons and eldrazi.
So, more often than not, when he triggers, the question for my opponents is if they want me to have an eldrazi in hand or have my spells cost up to 13 mana less this turn.
I would say that Rakdos is best place for him. Neheb is a close second, I believe, but I think you would need fewer X spells and a few more heavy hitters. Knollspine Dragon, Platinum Angel...
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
... Take that as you will.
- Rabid Wombat
Anyway, I do run Sin Prodder as he tends to be useful. Throw in a damage doubler and its basically free card draw.
If you're in RG, then I should note that creatures with menace are unblockable with Familiar Ground, since they can't simultaneously be blocked by exactly one creature and more than one creature. But first, we need to talk about parallel universes. 🅰️/2
Well, you can use Crucible of Worlds, but (as you may know by now) I don't like using one card that is good only with another card that isn't my Commander, especially in red, the color with the fewest tutors.
That's an option. You still face the land issue. Though you should always think of, e.g., Browbeat, as saving 2 on Lava Axe, rather than saving U on Concentrate, and colorshifting the whole thing to red. It only becomes a Concentrate when everyone is low enough that it would kill them. That's my general experience with punishers.
If a punisher is a triggered ability or an x spell that can finish the game, it becomes better, but still...
This one is in-between. It can still be bad if you're not manipulating your library (which would mean you're probably in green or blue) or recurring cards (which would probably mean you're in green or black), and all three of those colors are better at draw. (And no, you're not going to get someone to take 4 just to put Anger in your graveyard.) It is a trigger, one which happens once during each of your turns, though.
I'd probably put it in Daretti if anywhere. At least then you can use all those cards in your graveyard, provided they're artifacts.
On phasing:
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!