So I have a land base of in my collection(all below lands are any lands above $1 in cost)
5 pain fetches(WU,GW,UB, RW, BG)
8 shock lands(WU,GW,UB,WB,RW,RU,UG,BG)
10 check lands
10 scry lands
10 pain lands
2 filter lands (UB, GU)
5 Odyssey filters(allied colors)
5 bfz have lands(allied colors)
All color lands- city of brass, mana confluence, reflecting pool, forbidden orchard
So I wanna go through and upgrade some mana bases of some decks that I only used budget options for in the past.. These decks had Usually 20-30 basic lands and a couple other budget tapped dual lands.
Just a disclaimer the decks I and my playgroup play are pretty casual and usually pretty budget. Most decks aren't much over $150ish. But I'd still like to have as optimal of a land base as I can with the lands I have access to.. Not really trying to buy any more lands if I don't need to.
So when I went searching for edh land bases for 3 color decks I came across the Professors videos on mana bases
So if I take The Professors edh mana videos from tolarian community college a 3 color mana base looks like this.
38 lands + 8 accelerants = 46 total lands
- 15 Basic and utility lands ( 9 basic and 6 utility)
- 3 dual lands ( man lands, scry lands, check lands)
- 3 shock lands
- 3 fetch lands(pain)
[budget: panaramas)
- 3 filter lands
[budget: bounce lands]
--3 pain lands
- 1 tri land
- 3 other lands (lairs, any duals not yet used)
- 4 Any color lands
8 accelerants
--3 signets
--2 tailsman
--1 keyrune
- chromatic lantern
- sol ring
- 1 more artifact of your choice
Now just like the video he says this is a template and not a hard and fast rule..
So let's take my pillowfort G/W/U deck as an example..even though this deck has green in it it doesn't have the casting cost of some other decks so green ramp like cultivate etc
aren't really used. And the distribution of spells is spread out pretty evenly between all 3 colors.. I know some 3 color decks are more like a 2 color with a splash of a 3rd and you have to adjust according to your deck but for this example let's say all 3 are around the same amount.
So below is as close as I could get to the professors optimal mana base and then I chucked in some other lands that were in my color combonation.
4 basic lands(1G,1W,2U)
3 utility lands (all 3 tap for colorless)
3 shock lands
2 pain fetches(G/W and W/U)
1 filter land(G/U)
3 pain lands
1 tri lands
1 lair( Treva's Ruins)
5 of any color (command tower, mana confluence, reflecting pool, city of brass, forbidden orchard )
3 dual lands(check lands)
3 bounce lands
3 scry lands
2 Odyssey lands(skycloud expanse) and sungrass prairie))
2 basic fetches (terramorphic and evolving)
7 accelerants
--3 signets
--2 tailsman
- chromatic lantern
- sol ring
Which is 43 mana sources. Now I'm still 3 short of the profs 46 mana sources. But I feel 46 to be a bit much for most decks.. But I could be wrong.. As I said again my group isn't super aggressive so you don't need to have the most optimal mana base available to still be in the game. And the deck ran fine with 43 before.
So I just feel like it has way too few basic lands.. I mean I feel like I should have at least 10 or so basic lands but maybe not. Is this mana base off… am I trying to combine budget and optimal mana base too much and doing unsuccessfully?
I guess I am asking you who have 3 color EDH what does the typical mana base look like for a deck when you might not have the budget for all the fetches and all the filters but also don't have to be so cheap that all you can run are lands that come into play tapped?
Not really looking for a hard and fast rule as I know each deck is different and some decks are more even with all 3 colors and some decks are more like a 2 color deck with a 3rd as a splash..
So is running a bunch of lands that get me 2 colors or all 3 colors and running very few basic land a good mana base or is it asking for trouble?
3 bounce lands is a lot in my opinion. I rarely run more than 1, and only really do that if I have ways of untapping them, like Kiora's Follower or Garruk Wildspeaker.
I don't like that sometimes they make you discard to handsize early in the game, and I don't like how far behind you get if someone hits one with an Acidic Slime.
I also do not see the point in running a Lair. I have never seen anyone play them... I think they are really low quality lands.
I think that you can replace these 4 lands with basic lands and be very happy.
I also think in a 3 color deck that Commander's Sphere is much better than Chromatic Lantern... but maybe you can play both.
Building a control deck with your mana base, I'd do something like this:
Command Tower
Seaside Citadel
3 shocks
3 checks
3 temples
G/u filter
On color fetches
Terramorphic and Evolving
W/u and w/g cycle lands (you didnt list them zo buy them if needed, they're cheap and good to have)
A couple of utility lands, like strip mine, alchemists refuge, etc
Rest basics
I'm not sure why you aren't running ramp spells, but I would consider them. Edge of Autumn is a really good ramp spell for control decks. Early game it ramps you, late game it draws you a card.
Even though they come in tapped do you feel they are better than say pain lands and what not?? Do you include them in every deck you make usually?
For allied colors you have 2 additional duals in the cycling lands from Amonkhet and the battle lands from BFZ. I think those are good, especially the cycling lands if you’re running a higher land count in a 3-color deck.
You, and another poster mentioned a Tri-land in a 3 color deck. Note, Path of Ancestry is a STRICTLY BETTER upgrade than ALL Tri-lands. Like a Tri, it taps for the same 3 colors. Like a Tri, it enters tapped. And that where a Tri’s ability ends, and Path of Ancestry keeps going. Even if you have no other creature that matches you Commander’s creature type, you’ll still get 2, 3, perhaps 4 or more triggers of a Scry 1 just by casting your commander and how frequently it dies. I recommend running both it and the corresponding Tri, but there is never a reason to run a Tri OVER PoA.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Member since 2009; original handle lost in the Twitch shuffle.
Even though they come in tapped do you feel they are better than say pain lands and what not?? Do you include them in every deck you make usually?
A painland is not fetchable, and helps my opponents reduce my life total. Unless I'm running a deck where doing damage to myself is relevant or I'm playing a cEDH deck that can't afford any tempo loss by a ETBT land, I never run these. The bicycles can be found off a fetch land and pitched late game for a card, even when you don't have a way to recur them. And since you're building a more casual deck, you can afford the few times when you might stumble by drawing one.
You, and another poster mentioned a Tri-land in a 3 color deck. Note, Path of Ancestry is a STRICTLY BETTER upgrade than ALL Tri-lands. Like a Tri, it taps for the same 3 colors. Like a Tri, it enters tapped. And that where a Tri’s ability ends, and Path of Ancestry keeps going. Even if you have no other creature that matches you Commander’s creature type, you’ll still get 2, 3, perhaps 4 or more triggers of a Scry 1 just by casting your commander and how frequently it dies. I recommend running both it and the corresponding Tri, but there is never a reason to run a Tri OVER PoA.
Good call. I keep forgetting that it always taps for colors, not just when you're casting a tribal spell.
Even though they come in tapped do you feel they are better than say pain lands and what not?? Do you include them in every deck you make usually?
They are taplands, true, but all cycling lands can be cycled once you're at the top of your curve. And here's a synergy and a straight-up combo with them:
Personally, I find myself worrying more about Back to Basics and Blood Moon. (A case could be made for Price of Progress and Primal Order to a lesser extent.) I'm not playing Lorwyn-Alara Standard, where...just Google Cruel Control; in fact, it's rare that I run cards with more than three mana of the same color in their casting cost unless it's hybrid. (Or it's something like Khalni Hydra where I know exactly what I'm doing and it will typically cost me three mana or less.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The number of basic lands you include is really dependent upon your meta.
In general, there are significant advantages for replacing basic lands with an equivalent non-basic that has an upside (e.g. Minamo, School at Water's Edge is just better than an Island).
However, if your deck relies on basic fetch spells (e.g. Cultivate, Kodama's Reach), or if your playgroup plays cards that have you routinely searching for basic lands (e.g. Field of Ruin, Collective Voyage), then you need to have a critical mass of basic lands.
Personally, the instances where I fall behind from a group basic land tutor is so rare amongst my playgroups, I'd rather have fewer basic lands.
My standard 3 colour template (36 lands):
Cavern of Souls
Path of Ancestry
Ancient Tomb
Temple of the False God
Command Tower
Reflecting Pool
Legendary Land (e.g. Minamo)
2x Ramp Lands (e.g. Gaea's Cradle, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx)
2x Protection Lands (e.g. Kor Haven, Yavimaya Hollow)
3x Utility Lands (e.g. Mystifying Maze, Winding Canyons)
3x Fetch Lands
3x Shock Lands
3x Filter Lands
1-2 Mirage Fetch Land(s)
2-3 Bounce Lands
1-2 Bond Land(s)
2-3 Fast Lands
1-2 Bicycle Land(s)
2-3 Check Lands
1+ Basic Lands (Deck Dependent)
But I also include at least 10 sources of mana ramp in my decks. I also prefer fetch spells to find any land, like Sylvan Scrying and Realms Uncharted.
If i were you, i'd count the mana sources somewhat differently. Generally, i'd consider the average CMC of the cards in your deck, and also consider how often you'd tend to 'cheat' things at higher CMC into play. After that, aim for ~40 and go up and down according to CMC, where 36-37 are lands. The non-land mana sources (e.g. ramp spells, mana rocks) count as a half-mana source, and each cantrip that digs you <3 cards as a quarter card, and >4 as somewhere between a quarter to half.
If you have a lower CMC, you can go down to say 35-36 lands, but you might still want to up the total number of mana ramping sources.
On the other end, if you have a higher CMC, lean heavier on lands (so say 37-38).
Also, consider how often land destruction is played in the games you generally play, how much tempo you're losing if you're just straight ramping for 4-5 turns, and finally, how much cantripping/card draw/card selection your deck has (i had a mono-blue deck that NEVER missed a land-drop, even though it had only 37 lands and 2-3 rocks).
dependant upon the colour combination, there are some things that work well like riftstone portal and krosan verge.
My meta sometimes preys really heavily on non-basic lands, so being able to have a good number of basics is good. some oft-ignored lands like the pain lands are still surprisingly good (they only hurt, barely, when you tap for colour, and with things like urborg means they tap without pain), the vivid lands are probably the worst on that list, but there are some fun interactions with counters if you need it.
For this build of 3-colour, you're looking at a low CMC, not extremely colour-intensive deck (i.e. we're not doing turn 1 birds of paradise into turn 2 necropotence into turn 3 dawn elemental), so we're not so reliant on non-basics.
So I don't see any of you listing the 2 Odyssey lands skycloud expanse and sungrass prairie like ever.. Are those just strictly budget options.. Or when would you use them?
Also are signets and tailsman always used in your decks as accelerants or are this more budget options and shouldn't be used.
So I don't see any of you listing the 2 Odyssey lands skycloud expanse and sungrass prairie like ever.. Are those just strictly budget options.. Or when would you use them?
Also are signets and tailsman always used in your decks as accelerants or are this more budget options and shouldn't be used.
Thanks again
Signet lands are ok, but there are so many dual land options that it makes it less desirable to play a land that you have to hold up a second mana source in order to use. Not that they aren't necessarily bad, just that for me personally they'll never be a first choice.
Signers are staples in most decks, because they're 2cmc ramp spells without a color restriction to cast. Talismans are similar, but have the pain drawback, so I tend to view them like painland and only use them when my deck has a strong desire for them. And I'm also OCD on cycles so I cringe at using incomplete cycles of cards.
So I don't see any of you listing the 2 Odyssey lands skycloud expanse and sungrass prairie like ever.. Are those just strictly budget options.. Or when would you use them?
Also are signets and tailsman always used in your decks as accelerants or are this more budget options and shouldn't be used.
Thanks again
The problem I have with the Odyssey filter lands (Signet lands) is that they require another mana source to tap. If they are your first land, or only untapped mana source, they can not be used.
This is a niche criticism, but with such a variety of dual lands available to 3 colour decks, they don't make the cut for me.
I do slot these lands into my 2 colour decks though, they are still very good.
It's a land which can't be tapped for mana on turn 1 if you go first.
It's a land you cannot guarantee will tap for the color you want.
While it will usually be very good for you, especially in a 3 color deck, it won't always. Having your mana be outside of your control is generally not what you want when building your mana base.
You take a risk in how good Exotic Orchard will be. Now, the cost of the risk is small, but the pay-off, when compared to the alternatives, is also small. People tend to value certainty, which means people tend to dislike Exotic Orchard.
It's a fine card. It's definitely not the second best land after Command Tower.
I don't even think command tower itself is close to being #1 or #2. Gaea's Cradle is legal. And cradle isn't even #1 in its own cycle.
Exotic orchard and CT are top 30, sure, but top 5?!?! When I can play strip mine and volrath's stronghold? Taiga, tundra, etc?
No way, get real.
A $500 Reserved List cards isn't a format staple? I'm shocked.
Snark aside, Exotic Orchard is a land that pretty reliably taps for most colors after a couple of turns, and the only drawback to Command Tower is that it doesn't have basic land types. But it should be as ubiquitous as Sol Ring is, truthfully.
In my Zedruu deck which is very color hungry, I’m running all shocks plus 4 fetches, the filter lands, and the check lands. I also have a Forbidden Orchard because I don’t win through combat and a Command Tower. I also run the bounce lands because I have some untap synergies, though I’m considering dropping the Boris Garrison.
I find that mana base to be adequate for the extremely color intensive spells that I have (runs Mind Over Matter, Seismic Assault and Opalessence, for example).
So I don't see any of you listing the 2 Odyssey lands skycloud expanse and sungrass prairie like ever.. Are those just strictly budget options.. Or when would you use them?
Also are signets and tailsman always used in your decks as accelerants or are this more budget options and shouldn't be used.
Thanks again
The problem I have with the Odyssey filter lands (Signet lands) is that they require another mana source to tap. If they are your first land, or only untapped mana source, they can not be used.
This is a niche criticism, but with such a variety of dual lands available to 3 colour decks, they don't make the cut for me.
I do slot these lands into my 2 colour decks though, they are still very good.
So I don't see any of you listing the 2 Odyssey lands skycloud expanse and sungrass prairie like ever.. Are those just strictly budget options.. Or when would you use them?
Also are signets and tailsman always used in your decks as accelerants or are this more budget options and shouldn't be used.
Thanks again
Signet lands are ok, but there are so many dual land options that it makes it less desirable to play a land that you have to hold up a second mana source in order to use. Not that they aren't necessarily bad, just that for me personally they'll never be a first choice.
Signers are staples in most decks, because they're 2cmc ramp spells without a color restriction to cast. Talismans are similar, but have the pain drawback, so I tend to view them like painland and only use them when my deck has a strong desire for them. And I'm also OCD on cycles so I cringe at using incomplete cycles of cards.
Painlands aren't that bad, especially in this format. They have an added benefit, they can tap for C just in case you're playing with the OGW Eldrazi. And there are no allied pairs which can't gain life, though how useful that lifegain is is debatable.
What hurts painlands is, they don't have basic land types; if they did, they wouldn't have a downside. So, they can't be fetched, or Nature's Lore and friends. Not all that relevant with talismans, since a mana rock that ETB tapped unless you pay 2 life would also not have basic land types.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Painlands aren't that bad, especially in this format. They have an added benefit, they can tap for C just in case you're playing with the OGW Eldrazi. And there are no allied pairs which can't gain life, though how useful that lifegain is is debatable.
What hurts painlands is, they don't have basic land types; if they did, they wouldn't have a downside. So, they can't be fetched, or Nature's Lore and friends. Not all that relevant with talismans, since a mana rock that ETB tapped unless you pay 2 life would also not have basic land types.
Sure, that's why I gave the caveat of painland being good when your deck can use them. I run them in my cube because they enable the colorless mana eldtazi cards (to date no one has ever needed to add wastes to their decks). I run the Abzan one in my Karador deck because it's a Forest, so I know you can play around the life loss. I simply mean that everything else being equal I would use a check land pr temple before a pain almost every time.
I also play in a meta where the average power level of a deck is between a 5 and 7, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.
Why does everybody hate Exotic Orchard? Haven't heard it mentioned. It's literally the second best land after Command Tower.
I personally prefer Reflecting Pool and Meteor Crater over Exotic Orchard. The Orchard isn't a bad card, but I feel that I have more control over colours with the Pool and Crater, even if they may be less reliable sources of mana. I have Exotic Orchard in one of my 5 colour decks, and my Narset deck.
Exotic orchard and CT are top 30, sure, but top 5?!?! When I can play strip mine and volrath's stronghold? Taiga, tundra, etc?
No way, get real.
The ABU dual flex isn't very helpful, not everyone can afford to include them. If you think ABU duals are standard for Commander, YOU need to get real.
5 pain fetches(WU,GW,UB, RW, BG)
8 shock lands(WU,GW,UB,WB,RW,RU,UG,BG)
10 check lands
10 scry lands
10 pain lands
2 filter lands (UB, GU)
5 Odyssey filters(allied colors)
5 bfz have lands(allied colors)
All color lands- city of brass, mana confluence, reflecting pool, forbidden orchard
So I wanna go through and upgrade some mana bases of some decks that I only used budget options for in the past.. These decks had Usually 20-30 basic lands and a couple other budget tapped dual lands.
Just a disclaimer the decks I and my playgroup play are pretty casual and usually pretty budget. Most decks aren't much over $150ish. But I'd still like to have as optimal of a land base as I can with the lands I have access to.. Not really trying to buy any more lands if I don't need to.
So when I went searching for edh land bases for 3 color decks I came across the Professors videos on mana bases
So if I take The Professors edh mana videos from tolarian community college a 3 color mana base looks like this.
38 lands + 8 accelerants = 46 total lands
- 15 Basic and utility lands ( 9 basic and 6 utility)
- 3 dual lands ( man lands, scry lands, check lands)
- 3 shock lands
- 3 fetch lands(pain)
[budget: panaramas)
- 3 filter lands
[budget: bounce lands]
--3 pain lands
- 1 tri land
- 3 other lands (lairs, any duals not yet used)
- 4 Any color lands
8 accelerants
--3 signets
--2 tailsman
--1 keyrune
- chromatic lantern
- sol ring
- 1 more artifact of your choice
Now just like the video he says this is a template and not a hard and fast rule..
So let's take my pillowfort G/W/U deck as an example..even though this deck has green in it it doesn't have the casting cost of some other decks so green ramp like cultivate etc
aren't really used. And the distribution of spells is spread out pretty evenly between all 3 colors.. I know some 3 color decks are more like a 2 color with a splash of a 3rd and you have to adjust according to your deck but for this example let's say all 3 are around the same amount.
So below is as close as I could get to the professors optimal mana base and then I chucked in some other lands that were in my color combonation.
4 basic lands(1G,1W,2U)
3 utility lands (all 3 tap for colorless)
3 shock lands
2 pain fetches(G/W and W/U)
1 filter land(G/U)
3 pain lands
1 tri lands
1 lair( Treva's Ruins)
5 of any color (command tower, mana confluence, reflecting pool, city of brass, forbidden orchard )
3 dual lands(check lands)
3 bounce lands
3 scry lands
2 Odyssey lands(skycloud expanse) and sungrass prairie))
2 basic fetches (terramorphic and evolving)
7 accelerants
--3 signets
--2 tailsman
- chromatic lantern
- sol ring
Which is 43 mana sources. Now I'm still 3 short of the profs 46 mana sources. But I feel 46 to be a bit much for most decks.. But I could be wrong.. As I said again my group isn't super aggressive so you don't need to have the most optimal mana base available to still be in the game. And the deck ran fine with 43 before.
So I just feel like it has way too few basic lands.. I mean I feel like I should have at least 10 or so basic lands but maybe not. Is this mana base off… am I trying to combine budget and optimal mana base too much and doing unsuccessfully?
I guess I am asking you who have 3 color EDH what does the typical mana base look like for a deck when you might not have the budget for all the fetches and all the filters but also don't have to be so cheap that all you can run are lands that come into play tapped?
Not really looking for a hard and fast rule as I know each deck is different and some decks are more even with all 3 colors and some decks are more like a 2 color deck with a 3rd as a splash..
So is running a bunch of lands that get me 2 colors or all 3 colors and running very few basic land a good mana base or is it asking for trouble?
Thanks for any advice you can give me.
I don't like that sometimes they make you discard to handsize early in the game, and I don't like how far behind you get if someone hits one with an Acidic Slime.
I also do not see the point in running a Lair. I have never seen anyone play them... I think they are really low quality lands.
I think that you can replace these 4 lands with basic lands and be very happy.
I also think in a 3 color deck that Commander's Sphere is much better than Chromatic Lantern... but maybe you can play both.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Command Tower
Seaside Citadel
3 shocks
3 checks
3 temples
G/u filter
On color fetches
Terramorphic and Evolving
W/u and w/g cycle lands (you didnt list them zo buy them if needed, they're cheap and good to have)
A couple of utility lands, like strip mine, alchemists refuge, etc
Rest basics
I'm not sure why you aren't running ramp spells, but I would consider them. Edge of Autumn is a really good ramp spell for control decks. Early game it ramps you, late game it draws you a card.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I just put the lair in their as the prof mentioned it in his video.. I'd never heard of them before that.
And great idea about the commanders spehere.. I forgot about that. I'll def include that
Are you speaking of like scattered groves.
Even though they come in tapped do you feel they are better than say pain lands and what not?? Do you include them in every deck you make usually?
They can be better than scry lands. Depends on the deck.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
For allied colors you have 2 additional duals in the cycling lands from Amonkhet and the battle lands from BFZ. I think those are good, especially the cycling lands if you’re running a higher land count in a 3-color deck.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
A painland is not fetchable, and helps my opponents reduce my life total. Unless I'm running a deck where doing damage to myself is relevant or I'm playing a cEDH deck that can't afford any tempo loss by a ETBT land, I never run these. The bicycles can be found off a fetch land and pitched late game for a card, even when you don't have a way to recur them. And since you're building a more casual deck, you can afford the few times when you might stumble by drawing one.
Good call. I keep forgetting that it always taps for colors, not just when you're casting a tribal spell.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
They are taplands, true, but all cycling lands can be cycled once you're at the top of your curve. And here's a synergy and a straight-up combo with them:
Cycling land (or fetch) with Sun Titan = ramp
Cycling lands with Life from the Loam = mill/drawing loop
Besides that, they can all be fetched with Farseek, and two can be fetched with forest-specific fetchers (though the best ones, like Nature's Lore/Three Visits, Spoils of Victory, Wood Elves, and Skyshroud Claim, tend to make things enter the battlefield untapped...not that I wouldn't include Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, though it's more LD but also ramp). All of them can be fetched with Perilous Forays as well.
Personally, I find myself worrying more about Back to Basics and Blood Moon. (A case could be made for Price of Progress and Primal Order to a lesser extent.) I'm not playing Lorwyn-Alara Standard, where...just Google Cruel Control; in fact, it's rare that I run cards with more than three mana of the same color in their casting cost unless it's hybrid. (Or it's something like Khalni Hydra where I know exactly what I'm doing and it will typically cost me three mana or less.)
On phasing:
In general, there are significant advantages for replacing basic lands with an equivalent non-basic that has an upside (e.g. Minamo, School at Water's Edge is just better than an Island).
However, if your deck relies on basic fetch spells (e.g. Cultivate, Kodama's Reach), or if your playgroup plays cards that have you routinely searching for basic lands (e.g. Field of Ruin, Collective Voyage), then you need to have a critical mass of basic lands.
Personally, the instances where I fall behind from a group basic land tutor is so rare amongst my playgroups, I'd rather have fewer basic lands.
My standard 3 colour template (36 lands):
Cavern of Souls
Path of Ancestry
Ancient Tomb
Temple of the False God
Command Tower
Reflecting Pool
Legendary Land (e.g. Minamo)
2x Ramp Lands (e.g. Gaea's Cradle, Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx)
2x Protection Lands (e.g. Kor Haven, Yavimaya Hollow)
3x Utility Lands (e.g. Mystifying Maze, Winding Canyons)
3x Fetch Lands
3x Shock Lands
3x Filter Lands
1-2 Mirage Fetch Land(s)
2-3 Bounce Lands
1-2 Bond Land(s)
2-3 Fast Lands
1-2 Bicycle Land(s)
2-3 Check Lands
1+ Basic Lands (Deck Dependent)
But I also include at least 10 sources of mana ramp in my decks. I also prefer fetch spells to find any land, like Sylvan Scrying and Realms Uncharted.
If i were you, i'd count the mana sources somewhat differently. Generally, i'd consider the average CMC of the cards in your deck, and also consider how often you'd tend to 'cheat' things at higher CMC into play. After that, aim for ~40 and go up and down according to CMC, where 36-37 are lands. The non-land mana sources (e.g. ramp spells, mana rocks) count as a half-mana source, and each cantrip that digs you <3 cards as a quarter card, and >4 as somewhere between a quarter to half.
If you have a lower CMC, you can go down to say 35-36 lands, but you might still want to up the total number of mana ramping sources.
On the other end, if you have a higher CMC, lean heavier on lands (so say 37-38).
Also, consider how often land destruction is played in the games you generally play, how much tempo you're losing if you're just straight ramping for 4-5 turns, and finally, how much cantripping/card draw/card selection your deck has (i had a mono-blue deck that NEVER missed a land-drop, even though it had only 37 lands and 2-3 rocks).
It's been a while since i've built a 3-colour deck though. I've gotten really bored of them recently. That being said, my last 3-colour deck i think ran:
9 fetches
3 shocks
3 checks
3 pain lands
3 vivid lands
city of brass
reflecting pool
mana confluence
some number of basics
dependant upon the colour combination, there are some things that work well like riftstone portal and krosan verge.
My meta sometimes preys really heavily on non-basic lands, so being able to have a good number of basics is good. some oft-ignored lands like the pain lands are still surprisingly good (they only hurt, barely, when you tap for colour, and with things like urborg means they tap without pain), the vivid lands are probably the worst on that list, but there are some fun interactions with counters if you need it.
For this build of 3-colour, you're looking at a low CMC, not extremely colour-intensive deck (i.e. we're not doing turn 1 birds of paradise into turn 2 necropotence into turn 3 dawn elemental), so we're not so reliant on non-basics.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
So I don't see any of you listing the 2 Odyssey lands skycloud expanse and sungrass prairie like ever.. Are those just strictly budget options.. Or when would you use them?
Also are signets and tailsman always used in your decks as accelerants or are this more budget options and shouldn't be used.
Thanks again
Signet lands are ok, but there are so many dual land options that it makes it less desirable to play a land that you have to hold up a second mana source in order to use. Not that they aren't necessarily bad, just that for me personally they'll never be a first choice.
Signers are staples in most decks, because they're 2cmc ramp spells without a color restriction to cast. Talismans are similar, but have the pain drawback, so I tend to view them like painland and only use them when my deck has a strong desire for them. And I'm also OCD on cycles so I cringe at using incomplete cycles of cards.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
The problem I have with the Odyssey filter lands (Signet lands) is that they require another mana source to tap. If they are your first land, or only untapped mana source, they can not be used.
This is a niche criticism, but with such a variety of dual lands available to 3 colour decks, they don't make the cut for me.
I do slot these lands into my 2 colour decks though, they are still very good.
It's a land you cannot guarantee will tap for the color you want.
While it will usually be very good for you, especially in a 3 color deck, it won't always. Having your mana be outside of your control is generally not what you want when building your mana base.
You take a risk in how good Exotic Orchard will be. Now, the cost of the risk is small, but the pay-off, when compared to the alternatives, is also small. People tend to value certainty, which means people tend to dislike Exotic Orchard.
It's a fine card. It's definitely not the second best land after Command Tower.
I don't even think command tower itself is close to being #1 or #2. Gaea's Cradle is legal. And cradle isn't even #1 in its own cycle.
Exotic orchard and CT are top 30, sure, but top 5?!?! When I can play strip mine and volrath's stronghold? Taiga, tundra, etc?
No way, get real.
A $500 Reserved List cards isn't a format staple? I'm shocked.
Snark aside, Exotic Orchard is a land that pretty reliably taps for most colors after a couple of turns, and the only drawback to Command Tower is that it doesn't have basic land types. But it should be as ubiquitous as Sol Ring is, truthfully.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I find that mana base to be adequate for the extremely color intensive spells that I have (runs Mind Over Matter, Seismic Assault and Opalessence, for example).
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Makes alot of scene.. Thanks for this explination
Painlands aren't that bad, especially in this format. They have an added benefit, they can tap for C just in case you're playing with the OGW Eldrazi. And there are no allied pairs which can't gain life, though how useful that lifegain is is debatable.
What hurts painlands is, they don't have basic land types; if they did, they wouldn't have a downside. So, they can't be fetched, or Nature's Lore and friends. Not all that relevant with talismans, since a mana rock that ETB tapped unless you pay 2 life would also not have basic land types.
On phasing:
Sure, that's why I gave the caveat of painland being good when your deck can use them. I run them in my cube because they enable the colorless mana eldtazi cards (to date no one has ever needed to add wastes to their decks). I run the Abzan one in my Karador deck because it's a Forest, so I know you can play around the life loss. I simply mean that everything else being equal I would use a check land pr temple before a pain almost every time.
I also play in a meta where the average power level of a deck is between a 5 and 7, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I personally prefer Reflecting Pool and Meteor Crater over Exotic Orchard. The Orchard isn't a bad card, but I feel that I have more control over colours with the Pool and Crater, even if they may be less reliable sources of mana. I have Exotic Orchard in one of my 5 colour decks, and my Narset deck.
The ABU dual flex isn't very helpful, not everyone can afford to include them. If you think ABU duals are standard for Commander, YOU need to get real.
I can definitely get behind Strip Mine and Volrath's Stronghold though, excellent lands.