Hello all, after recieving such great help with my previous deck building questions I'm back for advice on antoher deck I've decided to build, this time its Dragon Tribal.
I know the "best" Dragon Tribal deck is 5-color, but I just don't have the budget to spend on a good 5-color manabase. HOWEVER, after having taken apart my 3 older decks, I do have a decent number of the Better Gruul lands. I know I could just run Gruul dragons, but I also have some dragons I wouldnt mind running int the 99 that don't fit into just RG. So I've decided I'd like to build a tri-color deck....... but I'm having trouble deciding what that third color should be. What are the benifits of Jund over Temur or Naya and vise versa? Commander suggestions are also welcome.
With blue you get clones; a kicked Rite of Replication, for example, to spit out tokens of your favorite nonlegendary Dragon, could be fun.
Wedges are tougher to find a commander for - you could do Animar, Soul of Elements but he's far less good at Dragon tribal than he would be with other gameplans not least because many Dragons have heavy colored mana requirements. There's Intet, the Dreamer I suppose, as well.
Jund all the way. I personally prefer five color dragons (and honestly, you don't need an expensive manabase), but if you're only going three color, Black is far more useful than Blue or White. Dragons are expensive (man-wise), and reanimation is important, whether it's getting back something after you Sneak Attacked it or after an opponent blew it up. Bladewing the Risen, Crux of Fate, Patriarch's Bidding, Kokusho, the Evening Star, Cauldron Dance, Living Death, etc. Black also offers removal, so you can clear the board of early drops right before you start dumping dragons.
Blue could give you card draw. White can give you board wipes (and bad reanimation). Black beats them both.
I think Jund is the only logical answer if you aren't playing 5C.
Jund has the largest amount of dragons - in addition to the legendary dragons available to all Shards (original Elder, M19 Elder, Invasion Elder) Jund has Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Darigaaz Reincarnated, and Wasitora, Nekoru Queen).This gives you more options for a Commander and several of Jund's options give you some other cool "angles" to play. You also just have more big spicy dragons to play with.
Black also adds the largest overall volume of dragons to play with compared to Naya and Temur.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Jund also gives you access to the Elders from Fate Reforged and Dragons of Tarkir. Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't that good in EDH, but Dragonlord Atarka and the FRF ones are.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Or still 5 color to get the cost reduction from ur dragon and only focus on three colors. I have won many games without casting ur dragon, so It is very possible. Run a couple lands that produce the other two colors as well as your basic three. Filter lands are good. Also checks and shocks.
Just run those. If you get mana cool, cast your general. Otherwise just use him for cost reduction.
In terms of commander, I'd say Prossh, Skyraider of Kher is your best choice. His tokens provide you with so much utility, whether it would be a draw engine with Skullclamp or turning a Predator Dragon into a sudden punch in the throat. Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund is the popular commander, but he's actually best off in the 99 actually, as you can pull him out of nowhere with a Dragonstorm or turn a Living Death into an instant win.
I'd even go as far as to say that Prossh might actually be technically better than The Ur-Dragon as a dragon tribal commander just because of the extra utility from those tokens. Prossh is just that broken.
Jund also gives you access to the Elders from Fate Reforged and Dragons of Tarkir. Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't that good in EDH, but Dragonlord Atarka and the FRF ones are.
I mean, Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't AMAZING but it's a perfectly reasonable card - "Rorix Bladewing with a baked in Fervor effect" ain't a bad place to be. Heck, 99% of what makes Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund great is being a hasty beat stick that grants everyone else haste, and Kolaghan does that same trick for one less mana AND doesn't only affect dragons.
It's a classic example of how players in general disregard a card that they can't get full mileage out of. I'm sure if WOTC printed a card for B that was an instant and said "Exile target creature. If it has the same name as a creature in its controllers graveyard, you gain 4 life", most EDH players would say to not bother with it since you'll NEVER gain any life off it.
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Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Jund also gives you access to the Elders from Fate Reforged and Dragons of Tarkir. Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't that good in EDH, but Dragonlord Atarka and the FRF ones are.
I mean, Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't AMAZING but it's a perfectly reasonable card - "Rorix Bladewing with a baked in Fervor effect" ain't a bad place to be. Heck, 99% of what makes Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund great is being a hasty beat stick that grants everyone else haste, and Kolaghan does that same trick for one less mana AND doesn't only affect dragons.
It's a classic example of how players in general disregard a card that they can't get full mileage out of. I'm sure if WOTC printed a card for B that was an instant and said "Exile target creature. If it has the same name as a creature in its controllers graveyard, you gain 4 life", most EDH players would say to not bother with it since you'll NEVER gain any life off it.
Completely ignoring it is a path in black that does not give the opponent a land.
I run kologhan and he is good against graveplay decks.
Jund also gives you access to the Elders from Fate Reforged and Dragons of Tarkir. Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't that good in EDH, but Dragonlord Atarka and the FRF ones are.
I mean, Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't AMAZING but it's a perfectly reasonable card - "Rorix Bladewing with a baked in Fervor effect" ain't a bad place to be. Heck, 99% of what makes Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund great is being a hasty beat stick that grants everyone else haste, and Kolaghan does that same trick for one less mana AND doesn't only affect dragons.
It's a classic example of how players in general disregard a card that they can't get full mileage out of. I'm sure if WOTC printed a card for B that was an instant and said "Exile target creature. If it has the same name as a creature in its controllers graveyard, you gain 4 life", most EDH players would say to not bother with it since you'll NEVER gain any life off it.
I suppose she hoses Relentless Apostolic Petitioners decks.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I still stand by using ur dragon. Fhat -1 to cost is a BIG deal.
I run three color dragon's using UR just like Gashnaw advocates. My manabase has 1 source of white and 1 source of blue to go with a lantern. The odds of ever casting UR are very low, but he helps accelerate the rest of deck.
I still stand by using ur dragon. Fhat -1 to cost is a BIG deal.
I run three color dragon's using UR just like Gashnaw advocates. My manabase has 1 source of white and 1 source of blue to go with a lantern. The odds of ever casting UR are very low, but he helps accelerate the rest of deck.
plus you can run things like command tower, cavern of souls, reflecting pool, exotic orchard, basically all multi color lands that help regardless and provide access to blue and white.
But i bet when you do cast ur dragon it is a huge reward.
Of course ur dragon is great but i only cast him in maybe 2/3 games. My deck can win without, if i can pull it off i am sure a 3 color dragon tribal deck can as well. Plus 3 color is more focused, less stressed, my deck lacks counters.
I know the "best" Dragon Tribal deck is 5-color, but I just don't have the budget to spend on a good 5-color manabase. HOWEVER, after having taken apart my 3 older decks, I do have a decent number of the Better Gruul lands. I know I could just run Gruul dragons, but I also have some dragons I wouldnt mind running int the 99 that don't fit into just RG. So I've decided I'd like to build a tri-color deck....... but I'm having trouble deciding what that third color should be. What are the benifits of Jund over Temur or Naya and vise versa? Commander suggestions are also welcome.
Thanks in advance for the advice
Wedges are tougher to find a commander for - you could do Animar, Soul of Elements but he's far less good at Dragon tribal than he would be with other gameplans not least because many Dragons have heavy colored mana requirements. There's Intet, the Dreamer I suppose, as well.
With shards you get multiple Dragon cycles and furthermore you can put one more Tarkir Dragonlord in the 99. Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury kills people faster than Dromoka, the Eternal if you're doing multi-Dragon attacks, but they're both synergistic with Atarka, World Render. The Elder versions are also considerations - Dragonlord Dromoka happens to be far more potent in EDH than Dragonlord Kolaghan.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Blue could give you card draw. White can give you board wipes (and bad reanimation). Black beats them both.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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ManabaseCrafter
Jund has the largest amount of dragons - in addition to the legendary dragons available to all Shards (original Elder, M19 Elder, Invasion Elder) Jund has Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Darigaaz Reincarnated, and Wasitora, Nekoru Queen).This gives you more options for a Commander and several of Jund's options give you some other cool "angles" to play. You also just have more big spicy dragons to play with.
Black also adds the largest overall volume of dragons to play with compared to Naya and Temur.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
On phasing:
Or still 5 color to get the cost reduction from ur dragon and only focus on three colors. I have won many games without casting ur dragon, so It is very possible. Run a couple lands that produce the other two colors as well as your basic three. Filter lands are good. Also checks and shocks.
Just run those. If you get mana cool, cast your general. Otherwise just use him for cost reduction.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Tainted Wood
Tainted Peak
Canyon Slough
Sheltered Thicket
Cinder Glade
Smoldering Marsh
Check lands, and the usual suspects: Command Tower and Path of Ancestry.
In terms of commander, I'd say Prossh, Skyraider of Kher is your best choice. His tokens provide you with so much utility, whether it would be a draw engine with Skullclamp or turning a Predator Dragon into a sudden punch in the throat. Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund is the popular commander, but he's actually best off in the 99 actually, as you can pull him out of nowhere with a Dragonstorm or turn a Living Death into an instant win.
I'd even go as far as to say that Prossh might actually be technically better than The Ur-Dragon as a dragon tribal commander just because of the extra utility from those tokens. Prossh is just that broken.
I mean, Dragonlord Kolaghan isn't AMAZING but it's a perfectly reasonable card - "Rorix Bladewing with a baked in Fervor effect" ain't a bad place to be. Heck, 99% of what makes Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund great is being a hasty beat stick that grants everyone else haste, and Kolaghan does that same trick for one less mana AND doesn't only affect dragons.
It's a classic example of how players in general disregard a card that they can't get full mileage out of. I'm sure if WOTC printed a card for B that was an instant and said "Exile target creature. If it has the same name as a creature in its controllers graveyard, you gain 4 life", most EDH players would say to not bother with it since you'll NEVER gain any life off it.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Completely ignoring it is a path in black that does not give the opponent a land.
I run kologhan and he is good against graveplay decks.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
If you go Naya though, you gain all the protections from white. Dragonlord Dromika and her ilk has innate benefits for dragons.
Jund is probably the most efficient with reanimation and recur.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I suppose she hoses Relentless Apostolic Petitioners decks.
On phasing:
I run three color dragon's using UR just like Gashnaw advocates. My manabase has 1 source of white and 1 source of blue to go with a lantern. The odds of ever casting UR are very low, but he helps accelerate the rest of deck.
But i bet when you do cast ur dragon it is a huge reward.
Of course ur dragon is great but i only cast him in maybe 2/3 games. My deck can win without, if i can pull it off i am sure a 3 color dragon tribal deck can as well. Plus 3 color is more focused, less stressed, my deck lacks counters.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist