There's a problem I've noticed at my LGS when it comes to Commander night and people get put into random pods. The disparity between players is typically so huge that one of two things happen in the first few rounds: A very powerful deck combos out and wins, or a very weak deck gets killed and doesn't get to play for more than 15 minutes. I've wanted to build a deck that helps police imbalanced tables by trying to simultaneously hold down any clear frontrunners and help out the weakest player. DirkGently's Phelddagrif deck is by far the best example of a deck that employs this strategy. My issue with his list is...I just don't like Phelddagrif. The idea is sound, I think Bant is a great color combo for what I want to do, and I like the gameplan of hanging out in third place while keeping the weakest player alive until you're in an un-loseable 1v1 endgame. But I'd rather the political cards be in the 99 rather than in the commander. It doesn't help that everyone sees him and thinks "kill the group hug scum" before the game even begins.
So what I'm looking for is suggestions for cards that you can directly help another player with, while still having the option to exclude the entire table from the fun. The Offering cycle and friend/foe cycle from Battlebond are the most blatant examples of these, and there are also cards like the Vow cycle and/or the "each other player does the same" cycle which you can use to help other players while keeping heat off of yourself, but I'm sure I'm missing out on plenty of good options. I'm not married to the Bant color combo either, since this hypothetical deck has yet to take any form. Thanks for the help.
I dont know of many cards like that, but I think cards like windgrace's judgement would be something that would help you slow down faster opponents while not hurting the player in 4th.
To be honest, the best cards for helping out other players in a situation like this are removal spells. Whether helping people indirectly by just killing the biggest threat immediately, or directly by killing something that's attacking the player you want to help.
Bloodgift Demon being one that could help opponent draw should you choose to. Death by Dragons is a red political card that allows people to gang up on the most powerful.
Certain cards like the now-banned trade secrets and evolutionary escalation create a Two Horse Race scenario, in which two players are so far ahead that the other X players don't really matter. This is technically less unfavorable than traditional group hug because quickly eliminating the other ahead player virtually guarantees victory over the other two left behind in a 4 player pod.
I have made such a list. Haven’t posted it yet, but I call this kind of deckbuilding ‘Fist Bump’ rather than ‘Group Hug’. I‘ll try to finalize and link later.
Certain cards like the now-banned trade secrets and evolutionary escalation create a Two Horse Race scenario, in which two players are so far ahead that the other X players don't really matter. This is technically less unfavorable than traditional group hug because quickly eliminating the other ahead player virtually guarantees victory over the other two left behind in a 4 player pod.
This is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for; a deck that beefs up the weakest player so they get a chance to slug it out with more expensive/tuned decks, and then tries to get into a 1v1 with either the weakened players with the good decks or the original weak player for the win.
I have made such a list. Haven’t posted it yet, but I call this kind of deckbuilding ‘Fist Bump’ rather than ‘Group Hug’. I‘ll try to finalize and link later.
This sounds great! Thanks for the help when you get around to it.
Of course, on top of that there are the more traditional Group Hug cards like Rites of Flourishing, Heartbeat of Spring, Weird Harvest, New Frontiers, etc. that probably help the good decks too much relative to the underpowered decks. I guess a lot of what you might want to include depends on what angle you want to attack or exploit to try and accomplish what you are looking for.
Of course, on top of that there are the more traditional Group Hug cards like Rites of Flourishing, Heartbeat of Spring, Weird Harvest, New Frontiers, etc. that probably help the good decks too much relative to the underpowered decks. I guess a lot of what you might want to include depends on what angle you want to attack or exploit to try and accomplish what you are looking for.
These are all regular group hug cards and are exactly what I'm trying to avoid. If the whole table benefits then the good players just run away with games that much more easily.
Just realized that Guided Passage goes about this in an interesting way.
Instead of helping the player that his behind directly, you hand over the card to them and let them pick the cards in your deck that help them the most.
It's three color though so it gets limited to use in Temur, Four Color and Five Color decks.
Curses hurt only one opponent, or help everyone but that opponent.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The horror is the most risky, since you're likely running heavy black to get the BB on turn 2, but a 7/7 on t2 is pretty scary as is, and if you both pick on the same target, the pain ramps up fast.
The horror is the most risky, since you're likely running heavy black to get the BB on turn 2, but a 7/7 on t2 is pretty scary as is, and if you both pick on the same target, the pain ramps up fast.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
That is the downside the trader, red generally can't do any interactions with enchantments.
Two things I can think of that also can help any chosen opponent is untapping one of their stuff with cards like Vizier of Tumbling Sands or blink their etb creature with cards like Eldrazi Displacer
Oath of Lieges is on the border to group hug, can help with color fixing and get needed lands for any player that don't ramp. I mainly use that to easier assemble the plains needed for Emeria, the sky ruin
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EDH BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Lurking Zombies. GBG Sapling of Colfenor - Forest Growth and Destruction. RWU Zedruu the Greathearted - Blinking and trading. GWB Teneb the Harvester - Enchantments, you lose life I gain life. RRR Neheb the Eternal - Ping people for mana burn.
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So what I'm looking for is suggestions for cards that you can directly help another player with, while still having the option to exclude the entire table from the fun. The Offering cycle and friend/foe cycle from Battlebond are the most blatant examples of these, and there are also cards like the Vow cycle and/or the "each other player does the same" cycle which you can use to help other players while keeping heat off of yourself, but I'm sure I'm missing out on plenty of good options. I'm not married to the Bant color combo either, since this hypothetical deck has yet to take any form. Thanks for the help.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
This is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for; a deck that beefs up the weakest player so they get a chance to slug it out with more expensive/tuned decks, and then tries to get into a 1v1 with either the weakened players with the good decks or the original weak player for the win.
This sounds great! Thanks for the help when you get around to it.
Additionally, ramp cards that allows you to ramp target player are useful for weaker players (since they tend to be mana screwed)
And one last one, my favorite secret tech:
dubious challenge
Esper - Sydri - Alternate take on the Artifacts meta
Orzhov - Regna and Krav - Tokens and Lifegain and +1/+1 counters
Mono Green - Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar - Land Matters
WURG Kynaios and Tiro Grouphug/Fistbump
Of course, on top of that there are the more traditional Group Hug cards like Rites of Flourishing, Heartbeat of Spring, Weird Harvest, New Frontiers, etc. that probably help the good decks too much relative to the underpowered decks. I guess a lot of what you might want to include depends on what angle you want to attack or exploit to try and accomplish what you are looking for.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
These are all regular group hug cards and are exactly what I'm trying to avoid. If the whole table benefits then the good players just run away with games that much more easily.
Instead of helping the player that his behind directly, you hand over the card to them and let them pick the cards in your deck that help them the most.
It's three color though so it gets limited to use in Temur, Four Color and Five Color decks.
https://youtu.be/ROj8xuQc7wQ
It’s basicly talking about tricks that are not necessary group hug
On phasing:
The horror is the most risky, since you're likely running heavy black to get the BB on turn 2, but a 7/7 on t2 is pretty scary as is, and if you both pick on the same target, the pain ramps up fast.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
They all get scarier with Curse of Predation and Curse of Stalked Prey. (Yes, really pimping the curses.)
Bazaar Trader can also help out one player. Or really hose one player.
On phasing:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/803276-fist-bump-making-allies-in-edh-a-deckbuilding
The Trader doesn't look like he could donate an enchantment though?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Two things I can think of that also can help any chosen opponent is untapping one of their stuff with cards like Vizier of Tumbling Sands or blink their etb creature with cards like Eldrazi Displacer
Fractured Identity is a fun card that can even out games, used that card on an opponents Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite once to wipe their own board
Oath of Lieges is on the border to group hug, can help with color fixing and get needed lands for any player that don't ramp. I mainly use that to easier assemble the plains needed for Emeria, the sky ruin
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Lurking Zombies.
GBG Sapling of Colfenor - Forest Growth and Destruction.
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted - Blinking and trading.
GWB Teneb the Harvester - Enchantments, you lose life I gain life.
RRR Neheb the Eternal - Ping people for mana burn.