So I am wanting to build an Estrid, the Masked With a big of a Superfreinds/pillowfort build (that pretends to be a politics deck) and in the end combos off. Estrid allows me to Mask permanent and give them totem armor, so i can use her -1 to enchant opponents permanents as well as my own. I can also use estrid to untap enchanted lands and my main plan is to have a few of them along with Chain veil. Tezzeret is also going to be run and Garruk.
So i know what I want to do, i am just not sure how to go about it.
(plus I am wanting to make an Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle deck as well, which is why I am waking estrid apart to rebuild her as the deck I want. But I need help)
Just a quick rules note, though: Having no loyalty counters is a state-based action which sends planeswalkers to the graveyard. Totem armor won't save them in that case.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
More planeswalkers than that will likely trigger warning bells, especially Tezzeret alongside Rings of Brighthearth, Basalt Monolith, and The Chain Veil. I'd still include these cards, mind, but they're likely to let the table know you are a superfriends infinite durdle deck and not a funny politics deck with a few 'walkers. You can combat this with pillowfort cards (Sphere of Safety, Norn's Annex) and sweepers (especially sweepers that don't hit 'walkers) but rapidly you start losing the thread of "I'm secretly a Politics deck". Any way to tutor for those 'walkers (Call the Gatewatch, Deploy the Gatewatch, Captain Sisay, Arena Rector) is also likely to arouse suspicion.
I guess that's my contention - Estrid Superfriends feels natural and fun, but building it in such a way that the politics are a focus and the superfriends are a surprise win-con feels really hard to do.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
i will probably be going the more traditional rout. Doubling season into ults. I mean i still want other options for winning as I know people will quickly focus PW benefits (After a game or two), so I need an alternate win condition.
And The estrid deck did give me 3 wrath effect off the bat,
i will probably be going the more traditional rout. Doubling season into ults. I mean i still want other options for winning as I know people will quickly focus PW benefits (After a game or two), so I need an alternate win condition.
And The estrid deck did give me 3 wrath effect off the bat,
Is there a way to make enchantments a win con?
It's not easy making enchantments actually a win condition. Sure there are cards like Sigil of the Empty Throne, but you need a lot of enchantment to seriously make it work.
I have an Ephara, God of the Polis where I use a lot of the enchantment token creators to win, but it's very controlling a slow.
There are some infinite ways to win through enchantments, but require combinations of cards, that otherwise might not synergies with the direction you head.
I'm sure there are literally hundreds more, but you can check out the infinites thread if you want some more combo ideas.
All three appeal to quite a bit.
There are a few more ideas but i think what i might do is instead go pillowofrt politics with PWs added in for good measure. Then throw in doubling season (As it help my general regardless) and Chain veil for the same reason. Sure I can combo off and win in that matter but not be my main focus.
This way I can focus on an enchantment deck with a few bonuses without straying too far off track. Auras help too as I can attack and then untap with estrid so i have defenses up and so forth.
It must be noted that with the Rest in Peace + Helm of Obedience combo that removing your graveyard activiely works against Estrid [-7] to get back enchantments, which is one of her strengths is being able to come back from mass removal.
But on the other hand you can put an Aura on the Helm of Obedience and this allows you to kill two opponents in one turn, which is often the downside of this combo is that you can only do one player per turn.
I will probably also grab myself a bloom tender and the other combo pieces listed with Evening.
not gonna worry about helm combo, And I will need to pick up a dovescape for guile. Also need a sterling gorve. But i am actually taking apart two of my decks for this one Ghave and Kenrith twins. (both have pieces i need.)
Gonna put the deck lists out first but overall, I feel dismantling two (good) combo decks fro anothe roen for fun is worth while. And if I end up not liking Estrid, i will still have the decks backed up. And then i could just build Arixmethes.
Doesn;t matter though, both ghave and twins do not see much play anymore. Jhoira is my combo deck that i pull out when i wish to be evil. (or even the playing field. if people pull out combo decks, i'll pull out mine and obliterate them. (Turn 2, turn 3, turn 4 is a slow game)
By the way, if you play superfriends, you're looking for planeswalkers which are threats on their own: They become creatures, they make tokens, or they do direct damage. (Sorry, there are no Bant examples I could think of. And I guess Jace, the Mind Sculptor makes -12 my least favorite number?) Your goal is to use control effects (and boardwipes) to control the board so these threats can be 10,000 bee stings.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
By the way, if you play superfriends, you're looking for planeswalkers which are threats on their own: They become creatures, they make tokens, or they do direct damage. (Sorry, there are no Bant examples I could think of. And I guess Jace, the Mind Sculptor makes -12 my least favorite number?) Your goal is to use control effects (and boardwipes) to control the board so these threats can be 10,000 bee stings.
not really. You need haste. You cannot tap creature the turn they come into play without haste.
ya i guess token generation is something i should look into.
I'm changing plans, I am gonna drop the super friends build I will still be playing Chain veil as Estrd can in fact go infinite with it, but that is the extent. (maybe throw in tezz and another PW or two.) But they will be utility or just (good stuff) and necessarily aiming to be a win con.
So i know what I want to do, i am just not sure how to go about it.
(plus I am wanting to make an Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle deck as well, which is why I am waking estrid apart to rebuild her as the deck I want. But I need help)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
On phasing:
More planeswalkers than that will likely trigger warning bells, especially Tezzeret alongside Rings of Brighthearth, Basalt Monolith, and The Chain Veil. I'd still include these cards, mind, but they're likely to let the table know you are a superfriends infinite durdle deck and not a funny politics deck with a few 'walkers. You can combat this with pillowfort cards (Sphere of Safety, Norn's Annex) and sweepers (especially sweepers that don't hit 'walkers) but rapidly you start losing the thread of "I'm secretly a Politics deck". Any way to tutor for those 'walkers (Call the Gatewatch, Deploy the Gatewatch, Captain Sisay, Arena Rector) is also likely to arouse suspicion.
I guess that's my contention - Estrid Superfriends feels natural and fun, but building it in such a way that the politics are a focus and the superfriends are a surprise win-con feels really hard to do.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
You've got Tezzeret the Seeker and Garruk Wildspeaker. so far, but this does not make a superfriends deck.
Nissa, Vital Force, Nissa, Worldwaker, Teferi, Temporal Archmage supports The Chain Veil approach in that you can untap lands/artifacts that will get the mana needed for the 4 activation each time.
Nissa, Worldwaker will depend on how many Forests you run however.
You could go creature tokens for a defensive strategy; Elspeth Tirel, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Jace, Cunning Castaway, Karn, Scion of Urza, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Tezzeret, Artifice Master.
You can back up this strategy with Doubling Season, Anointed Procession, Parallel Lives, Hour of Reckoning.
-OR-
You could go a more traditional Doubling Season into planeswalker ultimate usual suspects, with Jace, Architect of Thought, Jace, Memory Adept, Kiora, Master of the Depths, Narset Transcendent, Tamiyo, Field Researcher, Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Venser, the Sojourner, Will Kenrith.
If you go this route then you will pack a lot more of the creature board wipes, like Wrath of God, Terminus, Day of Judgment, etc.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
And The estrid deck did give me 3 wrath effect off the bat,
Is there a way to make enchantments a win con?
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Starfield of Nyx and Opalescence can make our enchantments creatures for getting into the red zone.
I have an Ephara, God of the Polis where I use a lot of the enchantment token creators to win, but it's very controlling a slow.
There are some infinite ways to win through enchantments, but require combinations of cards, that otherwise might not synergies with the direction you head.
Enchantments can be one half of a combo as well, so you have;
Enchanted Evening + Aura Thief
Dovescape + Guile
Rest in Peace + Helm of Obedience
I'm sure there are literally hundreds more, but you can check out the infinites thread if you want some more combo ideas.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
All three appeal to quite a bit.
There are a few more ideas but i think what i might do is instead go pillowofrt politics with PWs added in for good measure. Then throw in doubling season (As it help my general regardless) and Chain veil for the same reason. Sure I can combo off and win in that matter but not be my main focus.
This way I can focus on an enchantment deck with a few bonuses without straying too far off track. Auras help too as I can attack and then untap with estrid so i have defenses up and so forth.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Earthcraft + Squirrel Nest
Earthcraft + Doubling Season + Spawning Pit
Enchanted Evening + Cleansing Meditation with threshold = destroy all permanents, then bring yours back into play
Enchanted Evening + Calming Verse` = destroy all opponent's permanents
Midnight Guard + Presence of Gond = infinite tokens
Spike Feeder + Sunbond = infinitely big creature and infinite life
Bloom Tender/Krosan Restorer/Argothian Elder + Freed from the Real/Pemmin's Aura = infinite mana
It must be noted that with the Rest in Peace + Helm of Obedience combo that removing your graveyard activiely works against Estrid [-7] to get back enchantments, which is one of her strengths is being able to come back from mass removal.
But on the other hand you can put an Aura on the Helm of Obedience and this allows you to kill two opponents in one turn, which is often the downside of this combo is that you can only do one player per turn.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I will probably also grab myself a bloom tender and the other combo pieces listed with Evening.
not gonna worry about helm combo, And I will need to pick up a dovescape for guile. Also need a sterling gorve. But i am actually taking apart two of my decks for this one Ghave and Kenrith twins. (both have pieces i need.)
Gonna put the deck lists out first but overall, I feel dismantling two (good) combo decks fro anothe roen for fun is worth while. And if I end up not liking Estrid, i will still have the decks backed up. And then i could just build Arixmethes.
Doesn;t matter though, both ghave and twins do not see much play anymore. Jhoira is my combo deck that i pull out when i wish to be evil. (or even the playing field. if people pull out combo decks, i'll pull out mine and obliterate them. (Turn 2, turn 3, turn 4 is a slow game)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
By the way, if you play superfriends, you're looking for planeswalkers which are threats on their own: They become creatures, they make tokens, or they do direct damage. (Sorry, there are no Bant examples I could think of. And I guess Jace, the Mind Sculptor makes -12 my least favorite number?) Your goal is to use control effects (and boardwipes) to control the board so these threats can be 10,000 bee stings.
On phasing:
not really. You need haste. You cannot tap creature the turn they come into play without haste.
ya i guess token generation is something i should look into.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist