I'm a black player who's looking for a political deck where I can use some fun cards like No Mercy and Koskun Falls. I was looking at Queen Marchesa for a while but decided against her on the grounds that she just seems just kinda meh and I don't like that your opponents can still receive the benefits of being the Monarch even if they decide to double cross you.
At the moment I'm thinking of using Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist with a black partner. I'm interested in what partners you guys would recommend here. I'm considering Ravos Soultender simply for the colours as white brings a lot of good political cards to the table. The reason I'm considering Ravos over Tymna is because having to deal combat damage to opponents seems kind of antithetical to what the deck is trying to do. I'm also considering Vial Smasher the Fierce as a partner because he has some decent synergy with Ludevic helping you to trigger Ludy on your turn as well as potentially triggering him on someone else's. I can't decide if Vial smasher is what a political deck wants or not. On one hand he is a huge threat potentially dealing out tons of damage and he simply cannot be ignored. On the other hand the damage is random which seems to be more political somehow and he's not actually messing with peoples board states which tends to piss people off more in my experience. Hypothetically, if a political deck has done its thing correctly then people should leave you alone and you have a decent chance of making it to the "1v1 finals" if you will, where Vial can really do some pretty big non-random damage. However because of how threatening it is, you may just end up undermining your own polotical/hug strategy if people threat assess you as a high priority.
What are your guys thoughts? What general would you suggest?
Well, my first thought is that Phelddagrif is, and shall probably always be, the best political commander in the format. big ol' primer in sig. /plug
But if you're committed to black, there are still plenty of decent options.
Queen Marchesa is an interesting one. I've been playing with her a bit. She mostly creates scenarios where your opponents are motivated to attack each other (to get the monarch) but not attack you (because you have a bunch of deathtouch blockers). In practice, it's a bit unreliable against evasion, but that's at least the theory. You can help make up for that weakness with the other cards in the deck.
Ludevic is trash. For one thing, if an opponent cracks a fetch, they draw a card. Even if they send all their attackers at your face. Even if they target you with all their removal. If they don't have fetches, they can send one flying token at an opponent for the same result. It's extremely weakly political imo. also vial smasher triggering on enemy turns will help your enemy draw a card...that can occasionally be good but it's pretty niche.
Vial smasher is also really horrible politically, imo. Random damage is *kind of* better, but much like purphoros he represents a threat to the entire table and should draw hate. It also could easily kill someone you don't need, or want, to kill, while the more threatening player lives to kill you. There's a reason threat assessment is an important part of the game, especially a political game. Randomness is antithetical to that.
As far as good political commanders:
Athreos, god of passage is an interesting one. You can use him both as punishment for removing your stuff by targeting them and forcing them to either lose 3 or negate their own removal, or as a way for others to do you political favors by not paying the life. You can also, if you're feeling particularly dirty, go "infinite with assistance" by having someone let you infinite loop a free creature to a sac outlet to kill some common enemy. I've got a deck built around that premise in my sig.
Basically anything that goes well with removal is solid at politics. Token example being glissa, the traitor. Punish your enemies with removal and draw cards off baubles and stuff, plus she deters attacks like a boss. Toshiro Umezawa is similar in this regard. Lazav, Dimir Mastermind also synergizes with removal, in a more unique way. I like all three of these commanders a lot.
Mathas fiend seeker motivates opponents to remove what you target, and while you can't fully control the draw, you can stop at least one person from getting any.
Pharika, God of Affliction lets you create deadly blockers anywhere on the table, while also controlling graves, which can be both a benefit (don't attack me and you get a snake!) or a deterrent (if you attack me, I'll exile your genesis). Plus, real hard to interact with.
Teysa, Orzhov Scion + tokens can also work as a deterrent, threatening to exile targets in response to whatever you don't like.
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent is basically Mathas on crack - one person gets to suck it, everyone else gets cards. Haven't played much with her yet, so I don't have any strong opinions, but it's one to look at.
Saskia, the Unyielding is another "screw that guy commander". Biggest downside is that you can't change targets without blink/recast, which is kind of a problem in the rapidly-changing state of commander games. So this one is just decent. If you've got one problematic guy, it could be good.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is a really cool political commander, from a different angle. I've got a version in my sig - basically the idea is that your opponents can help you counter major spells and remove major targets by giving you back what you want with tasigur. If I was rebuilding it, I'd have a lower density of answers, so your opponents decisions to help you aren't so forced.
Finally, Kaervek, the Merciless. Kaervek is freaking hilarious. Here are my rules for Kaervek:
If you cast a spell, you choose Kaervek's targets, unless...
-That target would screw me over
-The spell screws me over
-The game is, or will be, about to end.
Adding these rules turned Kaervek from an auto-kill to an amazing, board-controlling, responsibility-shirking, engine of mass destruction. It's probably one of the most fun decks I've created.
I hope that helps with your decision. Personally my top picks are probably Kaervek, Tasigur, and Glissa.
Well, my first thought is that Phelddagrif is, and shall probably always be, the best political commander in the format. big ol' primer in sig. /plug
But if you're committed to black, there are still plenty of decent options.
Queen Marchesa is an interesting one. I've been playing with her a bit. She mostly creates scenarios where your opponents are motivated to attack each other (to get the monarch) but not attack you (because you have a bunch of deathtouch blockers). In practice, it's a bit unreliable against evasion, but that's at least the theory. You can help make up for that weakness with the other cards in the deck.
Ludevic is trash. For one thing, if an opponent cracks a fetch, they draw a card. Even if they send all their attackers at your face. Even if they target you with all their removal. If they don't have fetches, they can send one flying token at an opponent for the same result. It's extremely weakly political imo. also vial smasher triggering on enemy turns will help your enemy draw a card...that can occasionally be good but it's pretty niche.
Vial smasher is also really horrible politically, imo. Random damage is *kind of* better, but much like purphoros he represents a threat to the entire table and should draw hate. It also could easily kill someone you don't need, or want, to kill, while the more threatening player lives to kill you. There's a reason threat assessment is an important part of the game, especially a political game. Randomness is antithetical to that.
As far as good political commanders:
Athreos, god of passage is an interesting one. You can use him both as punishment for removing your stuff by targeting them and forcing them to either lose 3 or negate their own removal, or as a way for others to do you political favors by not paying the life. You can also, if you're feeling particularly dirty, go "infinite with assistance" by having someone let you infinite loop a free creature to a sac outlet to kill some common enemy. I've got a deck built around that premise in my sig.
Basically anything that goes well with removal is solid at politics. Token example being glissa, the traitor. Punish your enemies with removal and draw cards off baubles and stuff, plus she deters attacks like a boss. Toshiro Umezawa is similar in this regard. Lazav, Dimir Mastermind also synergizes with removal, in a more unique way. I like all three of these commanders a lot.
Mathas fiend seeker motivates opponents to remove what you target, and while you can't fully control the draw, you can stop at least one person from getting any.
Pharika, God of Affliction lets you create deadly blockers anywhere on the table, while also controlling graves, which can be both a benefit (don't attack me and you get a snake!) or a deterrent (if you attack me, I'll exile your genesis). Plus, real hard to interact with.
Teysa, Orzhov Scion + tokens can also work as a deterrent, threatening to exile targets in response to whatever you don't like.
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent is basically Mathas on crack - one person gets to suck it, everyone else gets cards. Haven't played much with her yet, so I don't have any strong opinions, but it's one to look at.
Saskia, the Unyielding is another "screw that guy commander". Biggest downside is that you can't change targets without blink/recast, which is kind of a problem in the rapidly-changing state of commander games. So this one is just decent. If you've got one problematic guy, it could be good.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is a really cool political commander, from a different angle. I've got a version in my sig - basically the idea is that your opponents can help you counter major spells and remove major targets by giving you back what you want with tasigur. If I was rebuilding it, I'd have a lower density of answers, so your opponents decisions to help you aren't so forced.
Finally, Kaervek, the Merciless. Kaervek is freaking hilarious. Here are my rules for Kaervek:
If you cast a spell, you choose Kaervek's targets, unless...
-That target would screw me over
-The spell screws me over
-The game is, or will be, about to end.
Adding these rules turned Kaervek from an auto-kill to an amazing, board-controlling, responsibility-shirking, engine of mass destruction. It's probably one of the most fun decks I've created.
I hope that helps with your decision. Personally my top picks are probably Kaervek, Tasigur, and Glissa.
Firstly, tyvm for the detailed reply. Secondly, damn, I totally didn't see that people could hurt themselves to draw a card. You're right, that makes Ludevek trash. I appreciate your thoughts on the other commanders. I'll have to give this some thought. I def won't be picking any "screw that guy" commanders, that seems like a terrible social experience for "that guy" and I'm wanting more of a casual fun time for all deck.
I might just have to move out of my comfort zone and play nonblack if I want to do this right. I'm not really feeling the flying hippo but I might have to consider something like Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. If I can't play black I'd at least like to play my second fav colour Red. Any red reccomendations?
Edit: I might try Mathas. How much worse is he do you guys think compared to K&T or Zedru
I've played Seizan, Perverter of Truth for years now as a mono-B politics deck. He draws people cards so they like him until everyone is at half their starting life and being punished for drawing cards. He's kinda like a mono-B Nekusar.
I played Kaervek for awhile and he's a great politics / chaos / retaliation commander if you want to go BR.
Are you sure that it's group hug you're looking for. The specific cards you listed in the OP seem more like "pillow fort" components.
If you want to get the Ludevic feel, you could always go with Sygg and build a pillow fort so your opponents can't hit you and give you cards when they hit each other.
Queen Marchesa actually is a really good political commander. Get hit once, and you won't be attacked often. Build in some other deterrents in addition to her death touchers, like no mercy, or big Teysa, or pillow fort effects. The thing is, you don't have to be impossible to attack, you just have to make it costly enough to deter attacks. Why pay 2 per creature to attack you and lose a dude to a death toucher when they could swing at the monarch instead? Why beat on the guy stopping the combos and saving you?
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I have a Marchesa deck as well. A good way to ensure the cards keep flowing is to just run Skullclamp. That way, if somebody does hit you, you can convert the assassins tokens into double the cards and punish them for their treachery.
I might just have to move out of my comfort zone and play nonblack if I want to do this right. I'm not really feeling the flying hippo but I might have to consider something like Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis. If I can't play black I'd at least like to play my second fav colour Red. Any red reccomendations?
Edit: I might try Mathas. How much worse is he do you guys think compared to K&T or Zedru
k&t is group hug, not political. Your opponents benefit equally so they have no reason to be nice to you. You can't turn off their benefits if they're hurting you (unlike phelddagrif). Group hug implies a symmetrical mechanic but not an actual strategy.
Haven't played Mathas in my cz, only my 99 and enemy cz. I think his effect is pretty subtle in terms of politics (it's tough to translate it into favors or to strongly steer the game in a particular direction) but he seems fine. Because the effect is nearly symmetrical it rarely moves people to do anything in particular (I.e. use removal on it).
@Queen Marchesa Playere. Don't you find her kind of underwhelming after the first cast? All she does is make a 1/1 per turn. That seems like horrid value to me.
I've played Seizan, Perverter of Truth for years now as a mono-B politics deck. He draws people cards so they like him until everyone is at half their starting life and being punished for drawing cards. He's kinda like a mono-B Nekusar.
I played Kaervek for awhile and he's a great politics / chaos / retaliation commander if you want to go BR.
Hmm, maybe I should try Kaervek after all. I assumed that like Vial Smasher, people wouldn't fall for it and assess his threat highly. But maybe his political applications make people look the other way.
The token is pretty good at getting back the monarch. Deathtouch tokens are usually pretty relevant. But sure, it's no pharika or hapatra.
Hard to say for sure how your group will react to kaervek (I really recommend using my rules!), which is kind of true for every political commander. But I can say that it's definitely made a lot of the most fun games I've played. He's pretty good at balancing the table and at forcing the game to a conclusion. Phelddagrif creates 4 hour games. Kaervek games tend to be less than an hour.
The best political black card is probably No Mercy; Dread is the creature version.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Mathas Fiend Seeker isn't bad. He lends himself to an "arms dealer" group hug approach using Akroan Horse/ Hunted Dragontype cards. However as I play him more and more I wish he was Queen Marchesa. EDH players prefer to use exile effects because there's so much recursion, and exile doesn't trigger the bounty ability he gives. I'm lucky if I draw two cards off him a game.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Thantis the Warweaver. It seems about a month ago the world was full of attempts to make her work, but she seems to have disappeared.
@Queen Marchesa Playere. Don't you find her kind of underwhelming after the first cast? All she does is make a 1/1 per turn. That seems like horrid value to me.
I've played Seizan, Perverter of Truth for years now as a mono-B politics deck. He draws people cards so they like him until everyone is at half their starting life and being punished for drawing cards. He's kinda like a mono-B Nekusar.
I played Kaervek for awhile and he's a great politics / chaos / retaliation commander if you want to go BR.
Hmm, maybe I should try Kaervek after all. I assumed that like Vial Smasher, people wouldn't fall for it and assess his threat highly. But maybe his political applications make people look the other way.
Not at all. First, she's very non threatening so she tends to stick as people often won't waste removal. If someone does get her, she's cheap to recast, and when she comes back down you become the monarch again. This is useful once you get your pillow fort built and want cards more than tokens. Also, don't forget that her main ability isn't printed on the card: she makes your opponents hurt eachother to become the monarch. Some will try to become and stay the monarch, others will get to a point where they need cards and make an attack they otherwise wouldn't just to get it. She's all about making others do your dirty work, so you want to build around that.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I'm a Queen Marchesa player as well. I noticed that I seldom lose the Monarch. Why? Well, my Commander has Deathtouch. So I always have a Deathtoucher on the ground. And then there are other countermeasures I use. But mostly, being the Monarch is fine, I get extra cards. Not being the Monarch is fine as well, because if people go after being the Monarch, they typically go after each other, and they do all the work for me. Oh, and I get some little tokens, which are not amazing but further help keeping people off my back, and help me get the Monarch back.
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I'm kinda confused by the title. Group hug and politics seem to be complete opposites of each other. Politics is getting the other players to do what you want. Group hug is giving everyone enough resources to do whatever they want to do, at which point they've no incentive to help you.
For me, Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the best political commander all round and, as a bonus, he is indeed in black. A control based Tasigur deck can play politics fantastically, as you almost always have a clear and reliable incentive to get people to help you - if someone plays a threat, someone else will be willing to give you an answer back from the yard. There's no relying on making promises or trusting people, or actually helping them out. It's just straight up making what you want to happen also be in their interest.
As for Queen Marchesa (long may she reign), she's not really a political commander in my books. She's basically a Phyrexian Arena in the command zone. Which is good, certainly, but she's there to get you extra cards, not play politics. You can certainly put political cards in there (such as lots of removal and other interaction), but there's nothing particularly political about her.
The best political black card is probably No Mercy; Dread is the creature version.
I disagree. With No Mercy, they still get the hit in. Or I could show them the Murder in my hand and tell them their valuable creature will die before even getting in for damage if it attacks me. That's far more like politics.
I'm kinda confused by the title. Group hug and politics seem to be complete opposites of each other. Politics is getting the other players to do what you want. Group hug is giving everyone enough resources to do whatever they want to do, at which point they've no incentive to help you.
For me, Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the best political commander all round and, as a bonus, he is indeed in black. A control based Tasigur deck can play politics fantastically, as you almost always have a clear and reliable incentive to get people to help you - if someone plays a threat, someone else will be willing to give you an answer back from the yard. There's no relying on making promises or trusting people, or actually helping them out. It's just straight up making what you want to happen also be in their interest.
As for Queen Marchesa (long may she reign), she's not really a political commander in my books. She's basically a Phyrexian Arena in the command zone. Which is good, certainly, but she's there to get you extra cards, not play politics. You can certainly put political cards in there (such as lots of removal and other interaction), but there's nothing particularly political about her.
I've never actually played group hug so I just kind of assumed that if you give people free stuff that they would assess your threat lower than other players but I see now how thats fallacious.
The best political black card is probably No Mercy; Dread is the creature version.
I disagree. With No Mercy, they still get the hit in. Or I could show them the Murder in my hand and tell them their valuable creature will die before even getting in for damage if it attacks me. That's far more like politics.
I think it is political depending on the situation. If your opponent wants to get some chip damage in with a 5/5 flyer and they have the option to choose between me and another player with no flying blockers, they would be smart to attack the player that doesn't have No Mercy in play. Even then if the No Mercy player is the only player without blockers I think I might just prefer to have my 5/5 flyer attack into another player's 1/1 flyer as opposed to dealing 5 and dying.
I'm kinda confused by the title. Group hug and politics seem to be complete opposites of each other. Politics is getting the other players to do what you want. Group hug is giving everyone enough resources to do whatever they want to do, at which point they've no incentive to help you.
For me, Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the best political commander all round and, as a bonus, he is indeed in black. A control based Tasigur deck can play politics fantastically, as you almost always have a clear and reliable incentive to get people to help you - if someone plays a threat, someone else will be willing to give you an answer back from the yard. There's no relying on making promises or trusting people, or actually helping them out. It's just straight up making what you want to happen also be in their interest.
As for Queen Marchesa (long may she reign), she's not really a political commander in my books. She's basically a Phyrexian Arena in the command zone. Which is good, certainly, but she's there to get you extra cards, not play politics. You can certainly put political cards in there (such as lots of removal and other interaction), but there's nothing particularly political about her.
The best political black card is probably No Mercy; Dread is the creature version.
I disagree. With No Mercy, they still get the hit in. Or I could show them the Murder in my hand and tell them their valuable creature will die before even getting in for damage if it attacks me. That's far more like politics.
i tend to differentiate between passive and active politics. Passive politics is when you push the game towards situations where your best interests align - tasigur, for example, needs no conversation for your opponent to give you a counterspell if tnn is on the stack. And no mercy tends to mean people would rather not attack you (unless it's lethal). Whereas implying a connection - if you attack, I will use murder - is active politics. You alter the situation by implication, not by game rules.
All that to say, I don't love flashing murder in that circumstance. Anything they're willing to throw into no mercy, they'll probably be happier to use to pull removal from your hand before playing their more important threats. And if you don't follow through your threats become worthless. Better to avoid threatening removal except against really important targets.
Also pheld > tas 4 eva
I think marchesa is weakly political. Having a dt blocker reliably makes you pretty unappetizing.
Does anybody have any experience playing a Pharika politics deck? How does it work? I assume you play a high creature count delve deck? The effect seems great but the colours don't seem ideal
The best political black card is probably No Mercy; Dread is the creature version.
I disagree. With No Mercy, they still get the hit in. Or I could show them the Murder in my hand and tell them their valuable creature will die before even getting in for damage if it attacks me. That's far more like politics.
Well, the point is that if they attack you there is a major penalty. (Though there is a "don't strike the king unless you intend to kill" clause in there: If you die, No Mercy's trigger never resolves.) If you just show me a Murder, I know there's a Murder in your hand. Plus, I can still attack you with tokens and simply not give a damn about your silly removal spell on my vanilla 1/1.
Also, if you want, you can use the cardname|set notation to autocard for a particular printing of a card. I mostly use it to avoid the godawful Amonkhet invocations. (Even if "Hazoret the Pervert" is actually somewhat apropos if you get your mind out of the gutter and remember that, under an older, more G-rated definition, Amonkhet is a very perverse plane. No more perverse than the caring mother goddess forced to kill her followers.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I think No Mercy is a trap in commander, a format full of ETB value creatures that blow up permanents all the time. No Mercy doesn't advance a plan so much as it prolongs games. All it takes is one Acidic Slime and your opponents have free reign to beat your face in. I think in most cases what you want in a politics deck is to be able to "reward" your opponents for spending their resources (so you needn't spend yours) furthering your goals instead of threatening to spend your resources wasting theirs if they actively do things you don't want them to do. This is why Phelddagrif fits this role well, because it allows you to grant resources to your opponents at will. Unfortunately, there aren't really any legendary creatures with Black in their color identity that fit this description (Triad of Fates is too slow and conditional to recommend imo)
I think No Mercy is a trap in commander, a format full of ETB value creatures that blow up permanents all the time. No Mercy doesn't advance a plan so much as it prolongs games. All it takes is one Acidic Slime and your opponents have free reign to beat your face in. I think in most cases what you want in a politics deck is to be able to "reward" your opponents for spending their resources (so you needn't spend yours) furthering your goals instead of threatening to spend your resources wasting theirs if they actively do things you don't want them to do. This is why Phelddagrif fits this role well, because it allows you to grant resources to your opponents at will. Unfortunately, there aren't really any legendary creatures with Black in their color identity that fit this description (Triad of Fates is too slow and conditional to recommend imo)
I personally disagree but I'm not a political expert by any means. You seem to be making the classic "dies to doomblade" argument. No Mercy is just one political card, we should be playing lots of other political cards too. It also depends on how your opponents theat assess, using resources to remove a No Mercy that isn't actively messing with their permanents nor advancing a plan seems kinda silly to me. Then again, some people don't like feeling manipulated and may destroy it anyway.
At the moment I'm thinking of using Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist with a black partner. I'm interested in what partners you guys would recommend here. I'm considering Ravos Soultender simply for the colours as white brings a lot of good political cards to the table. The reason I'm considering Ravos over Tymna is because having to deal combat damage to opponents seems kind of antithetical to what the deck is trying to do. I'm also considering Vial Smasher the Fierce as a partner because he has some decent synergy with Ludevic helping you to trigger Ludy on your turn as well as potentially triggering him on someone else's. I can't decide if Vial smasher is what a political deck wants or not. On one hand he is a huge threat potentially dealing out tons of damage and he simply cannot be ignored. On the other hand the damage is random which seems to be more political somehow and he's not actually messing with peoples board states which tends to piss people off more in my experience. Hypothetically, if a political deck has done its thing correctly then people should leave you alone and you have a decent chance of making it to the "1v1 finals" if you will, where Vial can really do some pretty big non-random damage. However because of how threatening it is, you may just end up undermining your own polotical/hug strategy if people threat assess you as a high priority.
What are your guys thoughts? What general would you suggest?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
But if you're committed to black, there are still plenty of decent options.
Queen Marchesa is an interesting one. I've been playing with her a bit. She mostly creates scenarios where your opponents are motivated to attack each other (to get the monarch) but not attack you (because you have a bunch of deathtouch blockers). In practice, it's a bit unreliable against evasion, but that's at least the theory. You can help make up for that weakness with the other cards in the deck.
Ludevic is trash. For one thing, if an opponent cracks a fetch, they draw a card. Even if they send all their attackers at your face. Even if they target you with all their removal. If they don't have fetches, they can send one flying token at an opponent for the same result. It's extremely weakly political imo. also vial smasher triggering on enemy turns will help your enemy draw a card...that can occasionally be good but it's pretty niche.
Vial smasher is also really horrible politically, imo. Random damage is *kind of* better, but much like purphoros he represents a threat to the entire table and should draw hate. It also could easily kill someone you don't need, or want, to kill, while the more threatening player lives to kill you. There's a reason threat assessment is an important part of the game, especially a political game. Randomness is antithetical to that.
As far as good political commanders:
Athreos, god of passage is an interesting one. You can use him both as punishment for removing your stuff by targeting them and forcing them to either lose 3 or negate their own removal, or as a way for others to do you political favors by not paying the life. You can also, if you're feeling particularly dirty, go "infinite with assistance" by having someone let you infinite loop a free creature to a sac outlet to kill some common enemy. I've got a deck built around that premise in my sig.
Basically anything that goes well with removal is solid at politics. Token example being glissa, the traitor. Punish your enemies with removal and draw cards off baubles and stuff, plus she deters attacks like a boss. Toshiro Umezawa is similar in this regard. Lazav, Dimir Mastermind also synergizes with removal, in a more unique way. I like all three of these commanders a lot.
Mathas fiend seeker motivates opponents to remove what you target, and while you can't fully control the draw, you can stop at least one person from getting any.
Pharika, God of Affliction lets you create deadly blockers anywhere on the table, while also controlling graves, which can be both a benefit (don't attack me and you get a snake!) or a deterrent (if you attack me, I'll exile your genesis). Plus, real hard to interact with.
Teysa, Orzhov Scion + tokens can also work as a deterrent, threatening to exile targets in response to whatever you don't like.
Xantcha, Sleeper Agent is basically Mathas on crack - one person gets to suck it, everyone else gets cards. Haven't played much with her yet, so I don't have any strong opinions, but it's one to look at.
Saskia, the Unyielding is another "screw that guy commander". Biggest downside is that you can't change targets without blink/recast, which is kind of a problem in the rapidly-changing state of commander games. So this one is just decent. If you've got one problematic guy, it could be good.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang is a really cool political commander, from a different angle. I've got a version in my sig - basically the idea is that your opponents can help you counter major spells and remove major targets by giving you back what you want with tasigur. If I was rebuilding it, I'd have a lower density of answers, so your opponents decisions to help you aren't so forced.
Finally, Kaervek, the Merciless. Kaervek is freaking hilarious. Here are my rules for Kaervek:
If you cast a spell, you choose Kaervek's targets, unless...
-That target would screw me over
-The spell screws me over
-The game is, or will be, about to end.
Adding these rules turned Kaervek from an auto-kill to an amazing, board-controlling, responsibility-shirking, engine of mass destruction. It's probably one of the most fun decks I've created.
I hope that helps with your decision. Personally my top picks are probably Kaervek, Tasigur, and Glissa.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Mono black group hug list for ya
Firstly, tyvm for the detailed reply. Secondly, damn, I totally didn't see that people could hurt themselves to draw a card. You're right, that makes Ludevek trash. I appreciate your thoughts on the other commanders. I'll have to give this some thought. I def won't be picking any "screw that guy" commanders, that seems like a terrible social experience for "that guy" and I'm wanting more of a casual fun time for all deck.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Edit: I might try Mathas. How much worse is he do you guys think compared to K&T or Zedru
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I played Kaervek for awhile and he's a great politics / chaos / retaliation commander if you want to go BR.
If you want to get the Ludevic feel, you could always go with Sygg and build a pillow fort so your opponents can't hit you and give you cards when they hit each other.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Haven't played Mathas in my cz, only my 99 and enemy cz. I think his effect is pretty subtle in terms of politics (it's tough to translate it into favors or to strongly steer the game in a particular direction) but he seems fine. Because the effect is nearly symmetrical it rarely moves people to do anything in particular (I.e. use removal on it).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Hmm, maybe I should try Kaervek after all. I assumed that like Vial Smasher, people wouldn't fall for it and assess his threat highly. But maybe his political applications make people look the other way.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Hard to say for sure how your group will react to kaervek (I really recommend using my rules!), which is kind of true for every political commander. But I can say that it's definitely made a lot of the most fun games I've played. He's pretty good at balancing the table and at forcing the game to a conclusion. Phelddagrif creates 4 hour games. Kaervek games tend to be less than an hour.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The best political black card is probably No Mercy; Dread is the creature version.
On phasing:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Thantis the Warweaver. It seems about a month ago the world was full of attempts to make her work, but she seems to have disappeared.
Not at all. First, she's very non threatening so she tends to stick as people often won't waste removal. If someone does get her, she's cheap to recast, and when she comes back down you become the monarch again. This is useful once you get your pillow fort built and want cards more than tokens. Also, don't forget that her main ability isn't printed on the card: she makes your opponents hurt eachother to become the monarch. Some will try to become and stay the monarch, others will get to a point where they need cards and make an attack they otherwise wouldn't just to get it. She's all about making others do your dirty work, so you want to build around that.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
• Call of Cthulhu CCG Servitor for the Netherlands!
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
For me, Tasigur, the Golden Fang is the best political commander all round and, as a bonus, he is indeed in black. A control based Tasigur deck can play politics fantastically, as you almost always have a clear and reliable incentive to get people to help you - if someone plays a threat, someone else will be willing to give you an answer back from the yard. There's no relying on making promises or trusting people, or actually helping them out. It's just straight up making what you want to happen also be in their interest.
As for Queen Marchesa (long may she reign), she's not really a political commander in my books. She's basically a Phyrexian Arena in the command zone. Which is good, certainly, but she's there to get you extra cards, not play politics. You can certainly put political cards in there (such as lots of removal and other interaction), but there's nothing particularly political about her.
I disagree. With No Mercy, they still get the hit in. Or I could show them the Murder in my hand and tell them their valuable creature will die before even getting in for damage if it attacks me. That's far more like politics.
I think it is political depending on the situation. If your opponent wants to get some chip damage in with a 5/5 flyer and they have the option to choose between me and another player with no flying blockers, they would be smart to attack the player that doesn't have No Mercy in play. Even then if the No Mercy player is the only player without blockers I think I might just prefer to have my 5/5 flyer attack into another player's 1/1 flyer as opposed to dealing 5 and dying.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
All that to say, I don't love flashing murder in that circumstance. Anything they're willing to throw into no mercy, they'll probably be happier to use to pull removal from your hand before playing their more important threats. And if you don't follow through your threats become worthless. Better to avoid threatening removal except against really important targets.
Also pheld > tas 4 eva
I think marchesa is weakly political. Having a dt blocker reliably makes you pretty unappetizing.
I definitely agree with the other things though.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Well, the point is that if they attack you there is a major penalty. (Though there is a "don't strike the king unless you intend to kill" clause in there: If you die, No Mercy's trigger never resolves.) If you just show me a Murder, I know there's a Murder in your hand. Plus, I can still attack you with tokens and simply not give a damn about your silly removal spell on my vanilla 1/1.
Also, if you want, you can use the cardname|set notation to autocard for a particular printing of a card. I mostly use it to avoid the godawful Amonkhet invocations. (Even if "Hazoret the Pervert" is actually somewhat apropos if you get your mind out of the gutter and remember that, under an older, more G-rated definition, Amonkhet is a very perverse plane. No more perverse than the caring mother goddess forced to kill her followers.)
On phasing:
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)