Yes, I pack up and find another game. I also counter theft effects for this reason. I could care less if anyone gets offended, and no, I wouldn't play chaos effects or be offended if people didn't like them.
The cards I dislike playing against are steal effects, because I don't like handing my cards to other players. But I don't scoop just because someone plays Treachery, etc.
Scooping in the sight of chaos cards is no different than scooping to spot removal, counter magic, etc.
If you're concerned about somebody taking one of your expensive cards, one thing I've found is that you can just keep it on yourside of the table and tell them they control it but you're going to be the one to touch it and you'll tap if for them when they want to use it.
That gets pretty hard to do with stuff like Thieves' Auction, but for a random one time theft effect it should be okay.
This is why sleeving your decks is so important.
You have to realize in a format where mono-red decks can come up against opponents that can cast an indestructible God whenever they have the mana (command zone) there needs to be an answer. Fissure works for a turn as does Chaos Warp, but Confusion in the Ranks and the like keeps indestructible creatures from essentially being Iona, Shield of Emeria for them.
I'm sorry that someone stole your cards before (at least I assume that is why you are responding in this way). I have had a deck stolen from me as well. I also realize that I do have to let people see my cards to know what they do (official rules). This often means they instinctively reach for the card to pick it up and read it (especially new players). Children especially when they say "let me see it" translates to "let me hold it".
At the end of the day, if you don't want to play (that type of) the game, don't. Just ask ahead of time if those cards are being used or flat out say, "I don't like playing with chaos cards". A lot of Spikes don't understand that some people actually just play for fun, and it isn't fun when your opponent up and leaves from something they could easily come back from.
Also to be real here, the best time to grab your cards are when you aren't looking (what happened to me) mugging you in the parking lot, or spilling their cards on the table all over your cards and on the floor (accidentally), palming your card, then putting it in their pocket when they got to pick up cards off the floor, that why if you examine both of your decks, you won't find it in those piles.
Stealing is wrong, and aside from the legal repercussions of being caught, being banned from your LGS (or your favorite Convention) isn't worth it.
But hey, there is also Cockatrice, MTGO, and Arena (sort of) if you want to be the only person who touches your "cards".
If you're concerned about somebody taking one of your expensive cards, one thing I've found is that you can just keep it on yourside of the table and tell them they control it but you're going to be the one to touch it and you'll tap if for them when they want to use it.
This is what I do. However, I think the OP is citing examples such as swapping entire boards, or a lot of cards at a time.
If I ran super expensive cards in a commander deck and I was playing with new people or kids, yeah I would probably scoop. Them knocking out a more enfranchised player might make these people feel happy. I protect my cards and they feel happy, its a win win. Does this sound a little too patronizing?
If I'm playing with my group who knows to be careful with peoples cards, I'm not super worried about it, they treat other players cards with respect. In that case no, I would keep playing.
This is what I do. However, I think the OP is citing examples such as swapping entire boards, or a lot of cards at a time.
I think from the way OP specified chaos, it's more of Scrambleverse than the likes of Rise of the Dark Realms. Chaos has the distinct point of its process literally requiring the cards to be mixed together before determining control whereas other control cards have distinct targets to begin with. (I know Scrambleverse doesn't actually require mixing, but let's face it does anyone really want to determine each card at a time?)
It's easy to get past the "I don't want people touching my cards issue" if there's a clear-cut target by adopting the "I'll make a separate segment on my own board for things you're controlling of mine" technique, even for cards like Rise of the Dark Realms, but I can tell you the logistics nightmare if you want to keep your cards on your side of the board if someone resolved Scrambleverse.
Actually, I'll concede not because I mind people touching my cards (in fairness, I'm lucky to be playing in a safe environment and my sleeves are highly distinct), but rather because I don't want to spend the time on the logistics nightmare for something that's not likely to be beneficially conclusive for anyone in the game.
That being said, generally as long as someone has control of more than 1 card of mine I'd request them to put them in the same separate pile and always in the frontmost line (even if it's 1 card) for easier identification of ownership and I do the same for cards I gain control of. So it's like my lands are closest to me, followed by my permanents, then cards I control but don't own separated into their respective owner's slots. Of course, I'll respect any request from an opponent who still prefers to keep his or her cards on their side of the field, but like I said I have the luxury of a safe environment and we generally just pass the cards over.
I dislike random effects that make the game take forever or remove all strategy. I'll either go for a hard disenchant, or scoop and move to another table if other players are waiting for a fourth. Just not my idea of fun.
i certainly won't scoop to these effects, and generally enjoy the complexity and unpredictable effect they have on the game
when it comes to expensive cards i'm less concerned with damage as i tend to double sleeve, and more concerned with that mana crypt being shuffled into someone's deck afterward
personally its never stopped me from playing or enjoying a game, but if its really an issue for some people... couldn't you just proxy them? like if you're so concerned with damage or theft, why not just take like another card and write gaea's cradle on it and hand them that? you've got the real one, and why do they need to take your physical copy if you can offer an alternative?
well, i'd at least check if all the players have different sleeves. If so, then it can't be too bad. if multiple players have the same sleeves, i'd be very wary of it, even if we're playing some really dodgy janky decks.
I wouldn't be offended though; far from it. i'd also give that norin the wary player an evil eye!
(i, myself have a norin the wary chaos/flicker-control deck.)
I actually do not mind chaos every once and a while. It can make a game hilarious and interesting. Again though, on a once in a while basis. Like anyone else I'd like to actually play my deck most of the time
I honestly didn't think it was going to be this type of discussion when I saw the thread's title.
Hmm... Scooping to chaos, and theft, cards specifically to keep other people from touching your expensive cards... I mean, I wouldn't scoop for that reason, but I understand why someone would. Normally, it tends to be players on the newer side that plays mass permanent exchange cards and I can understand not wanting to hand over cards like ABUR duals and Gaea's Cradle's to people that have no clue to their value. I mean... I can see scooping to protect expensive cards like that. I've had a couple people at my lgs want to take a selfie with my Gaea's Cradle, but at least I know those people are fully aware of its value.
I'd just say that if you're going to scoop to cards like that, then do it nicely. People are going to inevitably ask why your scooping and just let them know that some of your cards are valuable enough that you're very uneasy letting other people use them. Try not to sound like it's because of something about them or the others about the table and more about you. Or better yet, just tell them that in the time it takes to go through with the resolution of the card that you all could just set up a whole new game and possibly get a few turn rotations in (aka, the reason I scoop to cards like Scrambleverse).
I've never scooped to a chaos card, but I have on several occasions whipped out a pen and paper and written down exactly who took which card during a game, making it abundantly clear that I was recording where my cards went and that I would hold that person responsible if my card was not returned. I have seen some people scoop to a Thieves' Auction, Shared Fate, or Scrambleverse for the reason that they don't trust other people with their cards. It's a shame, but I get it. This is why I prefer to play with people I know.
The bigger issue that I have had with Chaos cards is the sheer amount of time that is needed to properly resolve them if the game has gone on for a while and there are still lots of players involved and especially when you have multiple chaos effects happening simultaneously. Ever try to resolve a Warp World where the Chaos deck reveals a Confusion in the Ranks and a Grip of Chaos and/or Psychic Battle? Throw in a Panharmonicon and a Mycosynth Lattice and you'll have a full-on mutiny on your hands (I an attest to this first hand; we once had a 52-permanent Warp World that we were determined to resolve just for "*****s and giggles" that quickly turned into "fits and curses").
Yea I essentially scoop every time to Scrambleverse / Thieves' Auction. I would rather you use MLD or combo to kill me to be totally honest. I can't think of anything I would be less pleasant to play through to be honest than one of those effects.
If on the other hand you want to play cards like: Grand Melee, Grip of Chaos, Invasion Plans, Possibility Storm, or Planar Chaos.... those cards are freaking sweet and I love that they make the game play differently temporarily from usual and I would always encourage players to play fun and interesting cards like that.
The big difference in my mind is that Scrambleverse and Thieves' Auction feel like griefer cards that punish players for making good decisions and playing interactive decks while rolling a D4 to see who is declared the victor.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yea I essentially scoop every time to Scrambleverse / Thieves' Auction. I would rather you use MLD or combo to kill me to be totally honest. I can't think of anything I would be less pleasant to play through to be honest than one of those effects.
At least Thieves' Auction doesn't take a million years to resolve. Sticking through a Scrambleverse takes for freaking ever.
If I ever had the chance of casting a Thieves' Auction, I wouldn't do it when there's tons of cards out by this i mean if it looks like there's 40+ all together than no. Scrambleverse would also be cast under the same conditions, once the number of cards gets really high,it's just asking for trouble.
I've never played in a game where Scrambleverse, Thieves' Auction or Aminatou, the Fateshifter ultimated. If I was playing with people I knew and trusted, preferably at someone's house rather than a store, then I would play on. If it was with random scrubs at a store I'd probably scoop.
I have played against Norin the Wary and Confusion in the Ranks. That was annoying, but I didn't scoop. And I've had Bribery cast on me multiple times. Also annoying, but I didn't scoop. I think the next time someone casts Bribery on me I'll just fan out all the creatures in my deck and let them choose one rather than handing them my deck. It's just not worth the risk of them damaging my cards by accidentally mishandling them.
Lastly, I always include a Homeward Path in my decks so I can get my creatures back if they are stolen or reanimated.
I actually do not mind chaos every once and a while. It can make a game hilarious and interesting. Again though, on a once in a while basis. Like anyone else I'd like to actually play my deck most of the time
This. Man, Eye of the Storm + Possibility Storm + Hive Mind happened once. We were getting new hands every turn from Praetor's Counsel, casting Krosan Grip on all sorts of stuff, it was pure craziness! That game took about 1.5 hours to finish and after we just played Judges' Tower, which was much less mind-intensive.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
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Not because of their game effect; scooping due to mixing multiple very expensive cards with other players’ cards and handing them off to strangers.
Does anyone do this?
Has anyone been very offended when you did?
Would you be offended if anyone did this to you?
Thread | Draft
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Scooping in the sight of chaos cards is no different than scooping to spot removal, counter magic, etc.
That gets pretty hard to do with stuff like Thieves' Auction, but for a random one time theft effect it should be okay.
You have to realize in a format where mono-red decks can come up against opponents that can cast an indestructible God whenever they have the mana (command zone) there needs to be an answer. Fissure works for a turn as does Chaos Warp, but Confusion in the Ranks and the like keeps indestructible creatures from essentially being Iona, Shield of Emeria for them.
I'm sorry that someone stole your cards before (at least I assume that is why you are responding in this way). I have had a deck stolen from me as well. I also realize that I do have to let people see my cards to know what they do (official rules). This often means they instinctively reach for the card to pick it up and read it (especially new players). Children especially when they say "let me see it" translates to "let me hold it".
At the end of the day, if you don't want to play (that type of) the game, don't. Just ask ahead of time if those cards are being used or flat out say, "I don't like playing with chaos cards". A lot of Spikes don't understand that some people actually just play for fun, and it isn't fun when your opponent up and leaves from something they could easily come back from.
Also to be real here, the best time to grab your cards are when you aren't looking (what happened to me) mugging you in the parking lot, or spilling their cards on the table all over your cards and on the floor (accidentally), palming your card, then putting it in their pocket when they got to pick up cards off the floor, that why if you examine both of your decks, you won't find it in those piles.
Stealing is wrong, and aside from the legal repercussions of being caught, being banned from your LGS (or your favorite Convention) isn't worth it.
But hey, there is also Cockatrice, MTGO, and Arena (sort of) if you want to be the only person who touches your "cards".
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If I'm playing with my group who knows to be careful with peoples cards, I'm not super worried about it, they treat other players cards with respect. In that case no, I would keep playing.
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
I think from the way OP specified chaos, it's more of Scrambleverse than the likes of Rise of the Dark Realms. Chaos has the distinct point of its process literally requiring the cards to be mixed together before determining control whereas other control cards have distinct targets to begin with. (I know Scrambleverse doesn't actually require mixing, but let's face it does anyone really want to determine each card at a time?)
It's easy to get past the "I don't want people touching my cards issue" if there's a clear-cut target by adopting the "I'll make a separate segment on my own board for things you're controlling of mine" technique, even for cards like Rise of the Dark Realms, but I can tell you the logistics nightmare if you want to keep your cards on your side of the board if someone resolved Scrambleverse.
Actually, I'll concede not because I mind people touching my cards (in fairness, I'm lucky to be playing in a safe environment and my sleeves are highly distinct), but rather because I don't want to spend the time on the logistics nightmare for something that's not likely to be beneficially conclusive for anyone in the game.
That being said, generally as long as someone has control of more than 1 card of mine I'd request them to put them in the same separate pile and always in the frontmost line (even if it's 1 card) for easier identification of ownership and I do the same for cards I gain control of. So it's like my lands are closest to me, followed by my permanents, then cards I control but don't own separated into their respective owner's slots. Of course, I'll respect any request from an opponent who still prefers to keep his or her cards on their side of the field, but like I said I have the luxury of a safe environment and we generally just pass the cards over.
EDIT: Spelling
when it comes to expensive cards i'm less concerned with damage as i tend to double sleeve, and more concerned with that mana crypt being shuffled into someone's deck afterward
personally its never stopped me from playing or enjoying a game, but if its really an issue for some people... couldn't you just proxy them? like if you're so concerned with damage or theft, why not just take like another card and write gaea's cradle on it and hand them that? you've got the real one, and why do they need to take your physical copy if you can offer an alternative?
I wouldn't be offended though; far from it. i'd also give that norin the wary player an evil eye!
(i, myself have a norin the wary chaos/flicker-control deck.)
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Hmm... Scooping to chaos, and theft, cards specifically to keep other people from touching your expensive cards... I mean, I wouldn't scoop for that reason, but I understand why someone would. Normally, it tends to be players on the newer side that plays mass permanent exchange cards and I can understand not wanting to hand over cards like ABUR duals and Gaea's Cradle's to people that have no clue to their value. I mean... I can see scooping to protect expensive cards like that. I've had a couple people at my lgs want to take a selfie with my Gaea's Cradle, but at least I know those people are fully aware of its value.
I'd just say that if you're going to scoop to cards like that, then do it nicely. People are going to inevitably ask why your scooping and just let them know that some of your cards are valuable enough that you're very uneasy letting other people use them. Try not to sound like it's because of something about them or the others about the table and more about you. Or better yet, just tell them that in the time it takes to go through with the resolution of the card that you all could just set up a whole new game and possibly get a few turn rotations in (aka, the reason I scoop to cards like Scrambleverse).
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
I've never scooped to a chaos card, but I have on several occasions whipped out a pen and paper and written down exactly who took which card during a game, making it abundantly clear that I was recording where my cards went and that I would hold that person responsible if my card was not returned. I have seen some people scoop to a Thieves' Auction, Shared Fate, or Scrambleverse for the reason that they don't trust other people with their cards. It's a shame, but I get it. This is why I prefer to play with people I know.
The bigger issue that I have had with Chaos cards is the sheer amount of time that is needed to properly resolve them if the game has gone on for a while and there are still lots of players involved and especially when you have multiple chaos effects happening simultaneously. Ever try to resolve a Warp World where the Chaos deck reveals a Confusion in the Ranks and a Grip of Chaos and/or Psychic Battle? Throw in a Panharmonicon and a Mycosynth Lattice and you'll have a full-on mutiny on your hands (I an attest to this first hand; we once had a 52-permanent Warp World that we were determined to resolve just for "*****s and giggles" that quickly turned into "fits and curses").
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
If on the other hand you want to play cards like: Grand Melee, Grip of Chaos, Invasion Plans, Possibility Storm, or Planar Chaos.... those cards are freaking sweet and I love that they make the game play differently temporarily from usual and I would always encourage players to play fun and interesting cards like that.
The big difference in my mind is that Scrambleverse and Thieves' Auction feel like griefer cards that punish players for making good decisions and playing interactive decks while rolling a D4 to see who is declared the victor.
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I have played against Norin the Wary and Confusion in the Ranks. That was annoying, but I didn't scoop. And I've had Bribery cast on me multiple times. Also annoying, but I didn't scoop. I think the next time someone casts Bribery on me I'll just fan out all the creatures in my deck and let them choose one rather than handing them my deck. It's just not worth the risk of them damaging my cards by accidentally mishandling them.
Lastly, I always include a Homeward Path in my decks so I can get my creatures back if they are stolen or reanimated.
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Mayael the Anima
This. Man, Eye of the Storm + Possibility Storm + Hive Mind happened once. We were getting new hands every turn from Praetor's Counsel, casting Krosan Grip on all sorts of stuff, it was pure craziness! That game took about 1.5 hours to finish and after we just played Judges' Tower, which was much less mind-intensive.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.