enchantment would not get played (At least not by me or anyone else who isn't building toward a specific meta).
Lin Sivvi would be sweet but preeeetty dangerous. Would be a very strong card in multicolor white decks, though, not just as a commander. Idk why 1 stat point would make any difference whatsoever.
Fixing is brokenly strong in EDH. WWW is perfectly castable in 5-color, let alone 2. not a good idea. If you want "real" balance, that isn't just a veiled board/land/hand wipe, play balancing act. Except no one plays that card because it's terrible.
Maros Tumblr got a lot of questions, ideas, suggestions about white card draw. For example.
For white card draw, you mentioned that drawing up to equal your opponents hand is likely out of the question, but would something like Timely Reinforcements for card draw work? Something that gave a set amount of card advantage, but only if you were behind.
To all suggestions Maros answer was similar:
No. White is bad at drawing cards. The solution to white is not making it better at drawing cards. It’s purposefully supposed to be bad at drawing cards. Look to enhancing strengths of white not trying to undo its weakness.
What is the meaning of this? White strengths? More cheap removal or repeatable removal in some way? More token, life gain stuff and more board wipes? I don't think that increasing the quality of this kind of effects will lead to something. Maybe better/more disruption effects but most player hate playing against such things.
I don't think reprinting old cards will do something. Maybe for newer player but that doesn't help white to catch up with the other colours.
To me, it means white has to be worst at drawing cards, significantly worse than even red. I honestly think Mentor of the Meek, Puresteel Paladin, and Mesa Enchantress are too good. Though Puresteel Paladin is arguable, since it could be argued it's staying in its own lane at least. (Though again, red should be better at drawing cards than white...)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Balance that costs WWW - We know the big problem with this spell is the cost, since Magus is legal. This would be very slow outside monowhite and Balance is probably fine in monowhite.
I don't know that we can really make Balance a card again without it costing at least 5+ mana in all reality. Even if you brought up the cost, I think there would still be a lot of reasons as to why it wouldn't get printed. They recently printed Magus of the Balance but he needs 5 mana to activate as well as tapping which adds so many additional hoops to it that I think its more than fair. You really can't go about printing balance effects without a very heavy nerf to their efficiency or you will just end up immediately needing to ban the card.
While I do agree that bringing up the mana intensity of white mana does do something after a point I think you would likely need to look at WWWW at a MINIMUM or else you still probably need to be at 2WWW with only three mana symbols in it and to be honest I am probably being overly generous in saying that.
Lin-Sivvi, Veteran Commander - Same as Defiant Hero but abilities reference Humans instead of Rebels and she has +1 power or toughness. She’d be really abusable only as a commander, where monowhite again limits the her scope while bringing some oomph to the color.
As long as it would be printed so only vintage / legacy / commander can play it I guess I wouldn't complain too much but to be honest its not really very flavorful to add that functionality to humans. If you would make the new legend a rebel who tutors humans you might be able to pass it off but in all reality I think you would expand better by just exploring the idea of revisiting rebels but potentially in a way that adds non tutoring rebels to standard / modern which would give more utility and or threats to rebels. Rebels has a weakness that they tend to not really have a means of winning withing their tribe other than tutoring for Mirror Entity with a million mana. If I had my way I would love some good bruisers that rebels could utilize.
Revisiting the changeling mechanic and making good combat creatures could also be a thing. The last time they did changeling they really didn't make many combat viable changelings as it really comes down to Chameleon Colossus and Taurean Mauler both of which are probably a little low powered as far as modern day beater only creature cards are measured. Managorger Hydra for example costs the same as the Mauler as far as cmc and color intensity but it gets counters off of cards you cast as well as having trample at the tradeoff of not being a changeling. I am saying this from the standpoint that Managorger Hydra is hardly a staple creature that sees play in any format. I think Chameleon Colossus saw a little bit of sideboard modern play at one point just because Jund had a small difficulty interacting with it being it could only really liliana edict or double bolt it. But that was essentially nothing to do with it being a changeling.
An enchantment that reads, “Spells and abilities opponents control cannot change your life total or move cards from your library to any other zone.” Not sure what it should cost, but the idea is that it forces opponents to fight you with creatures (“fight fair”). There would be ways around it (including removing the enchantment itself), but it would be a roadblock to Exsanguinate or mill wincons and would have occasional interesting interactions like immunity to Bribery.
Obviously cards like these would be printed in Commander products, as they’d be unsuitable for standard (although they could print that enchantment in standard as a terrible rare).
I might be wrong on the wording but something along the lines of:
Enchantment 3W
Your opponents can't change your life total outside of combat damage.
It would probably still need work but given that in commander, cards in the 99 are not very stable to be up so I would argue that tagging that onto a commander that is otherwise interesting in some other way would be the way to go.
If you are looking for Bribery protection the answer is player hexproof ie Leyline of Sanctity. Honestly though..... who targets a mono white player as the bribery target?
Yeah, I thought there was one but couldn’t remember it. Thanks!
enchantment would not get played (At least not by me or anyone else who isn't building toward a specific meta).
White sets rules, so I like the idea of forcing someone to interact with you in the combat step. And this also makes white’s reliance on creatures less of a liability. I’m sure there’s a better way to do it, but forcing people to attack you in combat seems like an interesting thing to give white.
Lin Sivvi would be sweet but preeeetty dangerous. Would be a very strong card in multicolor white decks, though, not just as a commander. Idk why 1 stat point would make any difference whatsoever.
The +1 stat is just because I think she’s under-statted by modern design standards.
I don't know that we can really make Balance a card again without it costing at least 5+ mana in all reality. Even if you brought up the cost, I think there would still be a lot of reasons as to why it wouldn't get printed. They recently printed Magus of the Balance but he needs 5 mana to activate as well as tapping which adds so many additional hoops to it that I think its more than fair. You really can't go about printing balance effects without a very heavy nerf to their efficiency or you will just end up immediately needing to ban the card.
Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like Balance is a little overly-demonized. Is it really that much worse than Armageddon or Apocalypse (as an effect; I do think it's too cheap)? It doesn't hit mana rocks and I like balancing hand size as white's answer to falling behind in card draw.
Lin-Sivvi, Veteran Commander - Same as Defiant Hero but abilities reference Humans instead of Rebels and she has +1 power or toughness. She’d be really abusable only as a commander, where monowhite again limits the her scope while bringing some oomph to the color.
As long as it would be printed so only vintage / legacy / commander can play it I guess I wouldn't complain too much but to be honest its not really very flavorful to add that functionality to humans.
If flavor is the only objection, I don't see a problem. The original is a Human Rebel. My idea was that an older, wiser Lin-Sivvi could bring her tactical skills to a different force, thus broadening the creature type but still keeping it related to her. I think Rebels are pretty firmly a dead-end that's unlikely to see major support in the future, while there will always be new humans getting printed.
It would probably still need work but given that in commander, cards in the 99 are not very stable to be up so I would argue that tagging that onto a commander that is otherwise interesting in some other way would be the way to go.
If you are looking for Bribery protection the answer is player hexproof ie Leyline of Sanctity. Honestly though..... who targets a mono white player as the bribery target?
Putting it on a Legend is a cool idea. The Bribery thing had nothing to do with the intent; it was just an example of a possible side effect. This effect would cause you to get wrecked by Wheels though, so it clearly needs work. I just like the idea of forcing combat interaction as a white thing.
White sets rules, so I like the idea of forcing someone to interact with you in the combat step. And this also makes white’s reliance on creatures less of a liability. I’m sure there’s a better way to do it, but forcing people to attack you in combat seems like an interesting thing to give white.
Forcing people to play "fair" seems like a decent idea, but giving a single, fairly narrow enchantment, doesn't seem like a reasonable solution. You have to assume that (1) you'll actually draw this card (2) it won't get removed, and (3) it'll actually be relevant.
1 can only really be remedied by increasing the number of cards with that sort of effect that are actually worth playing. An enchantment that does nothing against, realistically, the majority of decks, and not enough versus quite a few more, is not a card I would expect to see play in a format without sideboards.
2 I think is best remedied by making it something that isn't telegraphed. If you have this enchantment in play, your opponent probably won't cast exsanguinate until it's removed. If it was an instant the lasted until end of turn, though, then you could get them to actually use their big bomb, rather than just waiting and winning later. Or, again, making it something that exists on a lot more cards in various forms.
3 is the biggest problem, though. Sure, exsanguinate is a good, commonly-played card, but many "unfair" strategies still use the combat step. kiki conscripts? combat step. infinite turns? usually combat step. craterhoof? combat step. Or they just don't ultimately care about how they win - planeswalker ults off doubling season or leaving them on an empty board after jokulhaups, drawing their deck via any number of combos, or just winning via alt wincon like lab man...there are just a ton of ways to win. The percentage of decks I see that are mill-focused primarily is definitely less than 1%, and the number of noncombat damage focused decks is probably less than 5%, although of course some decks use a mixture of combat and noncombat. So I think you need to cover a lot more bases with a directed hate card like this before it becomes reasonable to include it, especially because - for it to really be worth it - it needs to be good enough that you're encouraged to tutor for it, so you actually have the answer reliably when you need it.
In terms of things I think would be (1) not out of color pie and (2) actually make a significant impact, I think the top two are:
(1) give white big win-conditiony things (like secure the wastes for XWW and the tokens have prowess? just spitballing), and
(2) give mono-white some really good commanders
The former because wincons are the most likely things to get tutored, and therefore cast in more games and have a bigger impact (ofc mono-white sucks at tutoring nonenchantment/nonequipment cards, so maybe make some of those) and the latter because, well, they sit in the command zone and get played a lot, obviously. These little hosers and tech cards are fine but they won't get played much and they won't have a significant impact on the color as a whole unless there are just, like, a crapton of them, because you'll rarely draw them.
In terms of what I actually WANT for mono-white, it's more unexpectedly absent-quality removal, because that's what I want to play, when I want to play white. But in terms of what the common EDH-player would need to see white as a viable color, it's probably those two things.
Maros Tumblr got a lot of questions, ideas, suggestions about white card draw. For example.
For white card draw, you mentioned that drawing up to equal your opponents hand is likely out of the question, but would something like Timely Reinforcements for card draw work? Something that gave a set amount of card advantage, but only if you were behind.
To all suggestions Maros answer was similar:
No. White is bad at drawing cards. The solution to white is not making it better at drawing cards. It’s purposefully supposed to be bad at drawing cards. Look to enhancing strengths of white not trying to undo its weakness.
What is the meaning of this? White strengths? More cheap removal or repeatable removal in some way? More token, life gain stuff and more board wipes? I don't think that increasing the quality of this kind of effects will lead to something. Maybe better/more disruption effects but most player hate playing against such things.
I don't think reprinting old cards will do something. Maybe for newer player but that doesn't help white to catch up with the other colours.
I'm Not Drawing Extra Cards, I Swear 3W
Enchantment
Shroud, indestructible
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may search your library for any number of plains cards and put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
You may play with plains cards in your hand revealed. Those cards do not count towards your hand size.
When you discard a plains card, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
i play jazal goldmane which is basically trample-less craterhoof behemoth on a stick.
i use collorless ramp and draw (obviously)
if i catch a player of guard (which can be rather easy in white) while i have ~5 tokens and jazal and 5 mana i can usually one-shot them
this means if i draw the correct cards i can do some real damage from turn 5 possibly eliminating 2 players by turn 6-7 lest they have no quick way to deal with it.
the collorless card draw and manaramp can and has kept me in for the long games as well. giving me the resources to rebuild to that fatal 5 tokens+jazal wincondition.
things like mask of memory and skullclamp are key to boros and mono-white edh.
im planning to find a copy of teferi's protection so i can possibly one shot someone and protection to my turn to avoid the consequenses
boros and mono-white can definitely be strong if you know how to build it.
ofcourse we also now have endless atlas to play with
boros/white is a fun color imo because you must play around its weaknesses while still playing to it's strengths.
bad at carddraw but great at combat? great, draw with combat!
I should have made it clearer, I'm not comparing decks, or the abilities of the colors themselves, just the commanders ability in a vacuum.
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker's ability is even greater in a vacuum I think. With a simple set up, Shirei gives you a ton of resources each turn (i.e. a sac outlet gives you all your etb/leave the battlefield triggers from creatures with 1 power or less every turn), while Teshar doubles your spells (by bringing something back if it was historic).
The reason why Teshar is the best is that it's an ability that can be triggered any number of times in a turn, from many to infinite. Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker and Marchesa, the Black Rose, although are excellent because they are able to stretch out value on each players turns, are still limited that they can only trigger once each time.
So putting aside anything to do with how the engines work i.e. "+1/+1 counters" or "creatures with power 1" or "creatures with converted cost 3 or less", it's simply based on the ability to string the triggers together, which Teshar has unlimited potential.
Well, yes and no. Shirei can trigger once each turn for each of your creatures. Teshar can trigger once per spell. Typically, outside combos (and it seems unreasonable to talk about combos in a vacuum - at least to me vacuum refers to what happens in a typical situation, ignoring interaction from the oppeont - it is also why I think Marchesa is not as good in a vacuum - there are many 1 power creatures or historic spells. There are not that many creatures that etb with +1/+1 counters or ways to give them some and thus it is not quite common to get many such creatures), you will play the same card only once a turn. E.g. say that you play 3 cards each turn and have 2 opponents. Shirei can get 9 etb/leaves play triggers easily (3 at the end of each players turn). Teshar will get 6 effects. This is not even taking into account that in the next round, Shirei can get 18, while Teshar is stuck at 6. With more oppeonts, it is even more extreme.
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
Well, yes and no. Shirei can trigger once each turn for each of your creatures. Teshar can trigger once per spell. Typically, outside combos (and it seems unreasonable to talk about combos in a vacuum - at least to me vacuum refers to what happens in a typical situation, ignoring interaction from the oppeont - it is also why I think Marchesa is not as good in a vacuum - there are many 1 power creatures or historic spells. There are not that many creatures that etb with +1/+1 counters or ways to give them some and thus it is not quite common to get many such creatures), you will play the same card only once a turn. E.g. say that you play 3 cards each turn and have 2 opponents. Shirei can get 9 etb/leaves play triggers easily (3 at the end of each players turn). Teshar will get 6 effects. This is not even taking into account that in the next round, Shirei can get 18, while Teshar is stuck at 6. With more oppeonts, it is even more extreme.
It's a pretty complicated topic, and one probably left for it's own thread. But Marchesa does have 'dethrone' built into all your creatures, so you have a natural way of getting +1/+1 counters. Also the most notable feature of Marchesa is that board wipes are ineffective against you as the trigger of returning will happen regardless of Marchesa being in play or not, where as Shirei has to be in play still. This means that you can have Marchesa go to the graveyard as well and they will all return at end of turn.
I like the approach of
Balance style cards, because it suits white’s attitude of equality: If not bring your advantage up to others you pull them down instead. White is also known for suppression, so if we combine both:
Balance Suppress
3WW
Sorcery
Choose target player who controls the lowest number of permanents. Each other player sacrifices permanents until the total number of permanents under their control is equal to that number. Then, each player draw cards equal to the number of permanents they sacrifices this way.
This would allow white players who normally control the highest number of tokens to immediately refresh their hand in an act of seemly equalizing move. Power level could be adjusted of course.
So many of the post and suggestions in this thread ultimately amount to "give white card draw" in some form or another. MaRo has reiterated again and again that that's simply not happening (outside of extremely niche, build-around cards that support existing white design space [e.g. equipment]).
Rehashing it is just wasting our time.
We need to look at ways to improve white's performance unrelated to card advantage.
Ways to strengthen agro strategies as a whole. Finishers in white's wheel space so that it can reliably close out a game. Maybe some ways for it to reign in singular players without making everyone else at the table hate you*.
*I actually feel like this is a big reason why playing white decreases your odds of winning in Commander. Because a lot of white's design space is occupied by cards/effects that are flat out unfun to play against, which causes everyone else to gang up on you just to get rid of that effect. Even if you're the only one who's keeping a run away player in check. Cards like Thalia, or Mindcensor, or Spirit of the Labyrinthe, or stax pieces etc may as well be giant blinking neon signs that say "KILL ME FIRST TO GET RID OF THIS!" And white in commander tends towards these effects, because it simply can't compete using one of it's primary tactic in other formats; creature agro.
So many of the post and suggestions in this thread ultimately amount to "give white card draw" in some form or another. MaRo has reiterated again and again that that's simply not happening (outside of extremely niche, build-around cards that support existing white design space [e.g. equipment]).
Rehashing it is just wasting our time.
Well we know that's not true as there is Alms Collector, Armistice and even Dawn of Hope from the lastest set.
So it's not unreasonable at all to be talking about it and discussing good designs to make it fit within the white framework and mold.
I'm Not Drawing Extra Cards, I Swear 3W
Enchantment
Shroud, indestructible
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may search your library for any number of plains cards and put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
You may play with plains cards in your hand revealed. Those cards do not count towards your hand size.
When you discard a plains card, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
But I get that you're trying to mitigate discarding cards in some way. I'm pretty sure I can come up with an infinite for this if they return to hand when discarded..
I would love a color shifted Land Equilibrium. Its a pretty fair card and not a devastating Balance level card unless you pair it with mass land destruction to lock people out.
Doesn't destroy the lands they have just keeps green decks from pulling too far ahead. Combine that with a similar effect on hand size and or some draw that works the same way and I think White would be in a good spot.
So many of the post and suggestions in this thread ultimately amount to "give white card draw" in some form or another. MaRo has reiterated again and again that that's simply not happening (outside of extremely niche, build-around cards that support existing white design space [e.g. equipment]).
Rehashing it is just wasting our time.
Well we know that's not true as there is Alms Collector, Armistice and even Dawn of Hope from the lastest set.
So it's not unreasonable at all to be talking about it and discussing good designs to make it fit within the white framework and mold.
Armistice is from Mercadian Masques. So is a very old card. There are multiple old cards with effects which doesn't fit modern colour pie rules. Dawn of Hope is a recent card and it is a niche card for life gain decks. Sure it has the build in token thing but the card shines when you are not reliant to that token. In addition the card was highly discussed and Maro already said that he was nervous about this and he stated that it's a color break. He doesn't seem to be very happy about this card. Alms Collector is from the cat commander deck. They get more funky in this kind of product. Red get some technical card against enchantments last time. It is a color break I think but less than the cards before. For me the disruption effects of this card is the main reason to play it. The 1 card is a nice bonus. This will rarely draw you more than 1.
TBH, the color pie was pretty well-established by Masques. Keep in mind that Armistice is also bad: "Cards! I've got cards today! 3WW a pop! And your friend gets some free tonic! You blue mages should know, it goes great with djinn. Would you like a card, good sir?"
(All the blue, green, black, and red mages scoff at how ludicrously overpriced Armistice is.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
So many of the post and suggestions in this thread ultimately amount to "give white card draw" in some form or another. MaRo has reiterated again and again that that's simply not happening (outside of extremely niche, build-around cards that support existing white design space [e.g. equipment]).
Rehashing it is just wasting our time.
Well we know that's not true as there is Alms Collector, Armistice and even Dawn of Hope from the lastest set.
So it's not unreasonable at all to be talking about it and discussing good designs to make it fit within the white framework and mold.
Armistice is from Mercadian Masques. So is a very old card. There are multiple old cards with effects which doesn't fit modern colour pie rules. Dawn of Hope is a recent card and it is a niche card for life gain decks. Sure it has the build in token thing but the card shines when you are not reliant to that token. In addition the card was highly discussed and Maro already said that he was nervous about this and he stated that it's a color break. He doesn't seem to be very happy about this card. Alms Collector is from the cat commander deck. They get more funky in this kind of product. Red get some technical card against enchantments last time. It is a color break I think but less than the cards before. For me the disruption effects of this card is the main reason to play it. The 1 card is a nice bonus. This will rarely draw you more than 1.
Armistice is perfect for white, since it's a trade, a lawful action of balance where you pay and give to gain a benefit yourself. Dawn of Hope not only focuses on life gain, it also produces tokens, both are within white's arsenal and draw card being a side benefit. Alms Collector's effect represents fairness and anti-cheating so frequently seen in white.
I am not talking about flavor. The three example fits what white represent. Card draw is not a mechanic white is suppose to get. Playing low mana creature is something white is famous for and yet Mentor of the Meek is stated as color break from WotC. This is the reason why they don't want Inspiring Commander as a real card.
I don't know about Armistice but Dawn of Hope is in fact a color break. Maro at least has confirm this. But they break the color pie very often. Red get some color breaks as punish effects and than it's seems okay because they don't have control over the effect. In addition Red got Impulsiv drawing as new mechanic. So I just want to say that maybe they should come with something different for white. Something white can get more often than 1 card every 2 years. It will obviously be worse than just drawing a card (it is white weakness after all) but it could be something in the white arsenal for future sets and be used commonly across all strategies not that niche drawing for life gain or playing weenie, enchantments, artifacts.
Well, I think its also very valid to recognize that essentially every colorless effect breaks the color pie when it comes to limitations of colors. Every time they make a new better colorless sweeper, draw, threat, or anything that is normally given to a specific color you break the color pie a little more. Given that they still plan to make powerful and new artifacts its one of those things that given time you are going to dilute a lot of the color's weaknesses just given the amount of time the game is out and how much new content is created.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Another big problem in general is that cards do exist, it's just that specifically for commander it's diluted because you can only play one of a card.
Spirit of the Labyrinth really is the ultimate balancing card for white's inability to draw. But there is only one of these in print.
So specifically for commander WotC need to be mindful of printing more like cards.
The Labyrinth 2W
Enchantment
Each player can't draw more than one card each turn.
Viewing the color pie in terms of the limitations of each is just not a sustainable way to view the color pie. It’s a game where the object is achieving victory. To deprive some colors of critical mechanics, like drawing cards in a card game, is really dooming it to failure.
To use an example, it might be fine in the game of basketball for one team’s “identity” to be controlling the post, and another’s to have fast perimeter movement. But when it becomes prohibited for one team to shoot a 3-point shot, and prohibited to the other to block a shot, then your audience laughs.
All colors should be able to attack. All colors should be able to draw cards. The color pie should touch on two things: 1) how well or badly a given color does on each, 2) the subjective feeling of how the effect is gained.
Another good example – Survival Cache. It seems fine to me because 1) it’s worse in terms of game impact than Divination or Night’s Whisper, from the colors of Blue or Black that should be better at draw than White, 2) it subjectively feels like a mechanic based on retribution and eschewing excess, the identity of White.
I think it’s honestly ok to limit white’s card draw in EDH because colorless options are so abundant (as ISBPathfinder said).
No white spell would ever be more efficient than Mind’s Eye, Trading Post, Staff of Nin or the Immortal Sun (much less Memory Jar), so why bother? In a way, this works out perfectly as it means white can get these effects at the cost of being vulnerable to artifact destruction. That is not such a bad trade off.
Personally, I feel that white could go in several directions to help address the problem.
1. Keep the Tutor Train Moving: White is actually pretty well-rounded as far as tutor effects go, grabbing Enchantments, Planeswalkers, Equipment, Legends, Weak Creatures, Cheap Creatures, and Basic plains. If wizards produces a couple more "2-for-1" tutors in white like Ranger of Eos or reusable tutors like Lin Sivvi, white would make for a marvelous toolbox color.
2. Asymmetric Wraths and Value Kill: Cards like Winds of Rath and Hour of Reckoning allow deckbuilders to get value without hurting themselves. Likewise, cards like Settle the Wreckage and Return to Dust likewise allow white players to turn a single card into effective value.
3. Anti-Blowout Cards: For me, this includes non-creature token producers that don't require tons of mana investment (such as Assemble the Legion) and cheap cards that grant protection from wrath effects (Gaddock Teeg, the new Tajic, etc.) If we can get some of these cards in mono-white (Teferi's protection was a great start!), going all in with tokens can finally act as "card advantage".
4. Stax Pieces: While white gets a control card every now and then (Hushwing Gryff, Tocatli Honor Guard, Spirit of the Labyrinth), white doesn't get any real redundancy with these effects and I wish that not all of these cards were creatures (seriously, everything other than the kismet-esque effects of blind obedience/authority of the consuls becomes a hatebear). I wish that we could get some of these hatebear effects on cheap enchantments as well. Asymmetrical (or potentially asymmetrical) tax effects also allow white to partially ignore its weak mana-searching.
5. Recursion: White already has some pretty potent recursion engines going on. The ability to use Bruna to grab a karmic guide to grab a sun titan to grab a sword of fire and ice is pretty awesome. Once we reach a critical mass of ETB/Death recursion, we can make decks with hilarious levels of redundancy built into the design.
I am not talking about flavor. The three example fits what white represent. Card draw is not a mechanic white is suppose to get. Playing low mana creature is something white is famous for and yet Mentor of the Meek is stated as color break from WotC. This is the reason why they don't want Inspiring Commander as a real card.
I don't know about Armistice but Dawn of Hope is in fact a color break. Maro at least has confirm this. But they break the color pie very often. Red get some color breaks as punish effects and than it's seems okay because they don't have control over the effect. In addition Red got Impulsiv drawing as new mechanic. So I just want to say that maybe they should come with something different for white. Something white can get more often than 1 card every 2 years. It will obviously be worse than just drawing a card (it is white weakness after all) but it could be something in the white arsenal for future sets and be used commonly across all strategies not that niche drawing for life gain or playing weenie, enchantments, artifacts.
Well, I think its also very valid to recognize that essentially every colorless effect breaks the color pie when it comes to limitations of colors. Every time they make a new better colorless sweeper, draw, threat, or anything that is normally given to a specific color you break the color pie a little more. Given that they still plan to make powerful and new artifacts its one of those things that given time you are going to dilute a lot of the color's weaknesses just given the amount of time the game is out and how much new content is created.
Indeed, which is why traditionally colorless solutions (in the past only artifacts) are on average more expensive than similar effects in respective colors, to compensate its generality, though that began to change with Mirrodin sets and equipments. I think WotC should avoid using colorless cards as "solution" to these problems, because recent cards no longer abide the rules/power level of the past (again, thx to Mirrodin sets).
I think it’s honestly ok to limit white’s card draw in EDH because colorless options are so abundant (as ISBPathfinder said).
No white spell would ever be more efficient than Mind’s Eye, Trading Post, Staff of Nin or the Immortal Sun (much less Memory Jar), so why bother? In a way, this works out perfectly as it means white can get these effects at the cost of being vulnerable to artifact destruction. That is not such a bad trade off.
No mention of Skullclamp? Considering white is the best at making small tokens...
My issue with Dawn of Hope is that it clears its own hurdle, and "card draw tied to lifegain" is something B does, after a fashion, and something we already see WU do. "Lifegain and card draw on the same card" is WU or simply G, though for the latter it has to again stay in green's lane. Sure, you're paying 2 for each card, but it's still turning every creature with lifelink (and Ajani's Mantra, and...) into a sort of Phyrexian Arena. To say nothing of what combining it with a lucky charm does. "Kicker 2. If kicked, cantrip." sounds dangerous.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
enchantment would not get played (At least not by me or anyone else who isn't building toward a specific meta).
Lin Sivvi would be sweet but preeeetty dangerous. Would be a very strong card in multicolor white decks, though, not just as a commander. Idk why 1 stat point would make any difference whatsoever.
Fixing is brokenly strong in EDH. WWW is perfectly castable in 5-color, let alone 2. not a good idea. If you want "real" balance, that isn't just a veiled board/land/hand wipe, play balancing act. Except no one plays that card because it's terrible.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
To me, it means white has to be worst at drawing cards, significantly worse than even red. I honestly think Mentor of the Meek, Puresteel Paladin, and Mesa Enchantress are too good. Though Puresteel Paladin is arguable, since it could be argued it's staying in its own lane at least. (Though again, red should be better at drawing cards than white...)
On phasing:
I don't know that we can really make Balance a card again without it costing at least 5+ mana in all reality. Even if you brought up the cost, I think there would still be a lot of reasons as to why it wouldn't get printed. They recently printed Magus of the Balance but he needs 5 mana to activate as well as tapping which adds so many additional hoops to it that I think its more than fair. You really can't go about printing balance effects without a very heavy nerf to their efficiency or you will just end up immediately needing to ban the card.
While I do agree that bringing up the mana intensity of white mana does do something after a point I think you would likely need to look at WWWW at a MINIMUM or else you still probably need to be at 2WWW with only three mana symbols in it and to be honest I am probably being overly generous in saying that.
As long as it would be printed so only vintage / legacy / commander can play it I guess I wouldn't complain too much but to be honest its not really very flavorful to add that functionality to humans. If you would make the new legend a rebel who tutors humans you might be able to pass it off but in all reality I think you would expand better by just exploring the idea of revisiting rebels but potentially in a way that adds non tutoring rebels to standard / modern which would give more utility and or threats to rebels. Rebels has a weakness that they tend to not really have a means of winning withing their tribe other than tutoring for Mirror Entity with a million mana. If I had my way I would love some good bruisers that rebels could utilize.
Revisiting the changeling mechanic and making good combat creatures could also be a thing. The last time they did changeling they really didn't make many combat viable changelings as it really comes down to Chameleon Colossus and Taurean Mauler both of which are probably a little low powered as far as modern day beater only creature cards are measured. Managorger Hydra for example costs the same as the Mauler as far as cmc and color intensity but it gets counters off of cards you cast as well as having trample at the tradeoff of not being a changeling. I am saying this from the standpoint that Managorger Hydra is hardly a staple creature that sees play in any format. I think Chameleon Colossus saw a little bit of sideboard modern play at one point just because Jund had a small difficulty interacting with it being it could only really liliana edict or double bolt it. But that was essentially nothing to do with it being a changeling.
I might be wrong on the wording but something along the lines of:
Enchantment 3W
Your opponents can't change your life total outside of combat damage.
It would probably still need work but given that in commander, cards in the 99 are not very stable to be up so I would argue that tagging that onto a commander that is otherwise interesting in some other way would be the way to go.
If you are looking for Bribery protection the answer is player hexproof ie Leyline of Sanctity. Honestly though..... who targets a mono white player as the bribery target?
You mean Faith's Reward or are you saying the fact that it costs 4 mana instead of three is a problem?
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Yeah, I thought there was one but couldn’t remember it. Thanks!
White sets rules, so I like the idea of forcing someone to interact with you in the combat step. And this also makes white’s reliance on creatures less of a liability. I’m sure there’s a better way to do it, but forcing people to attack you in combat seems like an interesting thing to give white.
The +1 stat is just because I think she’s under-statted by modern design standards.
Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like Balance is a little overly-demonized. Is it really that much worse than Armageddon or Apocalypse (as an effect; I do think it's too cheap)? It doesn't hit mana rocks and I like balancing hand size as white's answer to falling behind in card draw.
If flavor is the only objection, I don't see a problem. The original is a Human Rebel. My idea was that an older, wiser Lin-Sivvi could bring her tactical skills to a different force, thus broadening the creature type but still keeping it related to her. I think Rebels are pretty firmly a dead-end that's unlikely to see major support in the future, while there will always be new humans getting printed.
Putting it on a Legend is a cool idea. The Bribery thing had nothing to do with the intent; it was just an example of a possible side effect. This effect would cause you to get wrecked by Wheels though, so it clearly needs work. I just like the idea of forcing combat interaction as a white thing.
First draft ideas and whatnot.
1 can only really be remedied by increasing the number of cards with that sort of effect that are actually worth playing. An enchantment that does nothing against, realistically, the majority of decks, and not enough versus quite a few more, is not a card I would expect to see play in a format without sideboards.
2 I think is best remedied by making it something that isn't telegraphed. If you have this enchantment in play, your opponent probably won't cast exsanguinate until it's removed. If it was an instant the lasted until end of turn, though, then you could get them to actually use their big bomb, rather than just waiting and winning later. Or, again, making it something that exists on a lot more cards in various forms.
3 is the biggest problem, though. Sure, exsanguinate is a good, commonly-played card, but many "unfair" strategies still use the combat step. kiki conscripts? combat step. infinite turns? usually combat step. craterhoof? combat step. Or they just don't ultimately care about how they win - planeswalker ults off doubling season or leaving them on an empty board after jokulhaups, drawing their deck via any number of combos, or just winning via alt wincon like lab man...there are just a ton of ways to win. The percentage of decks I see that are mill-focused primarily is definitely less than 1%, and the number of noncombat damage focused decks is probably less than 5%, although of course some decks use a mixture of combat and noncombat. So I think you need to cover a lot more bases with a directed hate card like this before it becomes reasonable to include it, especially because - for it to really be worth it - it needs to be good enough that you're encouraged to tutor for it, so you actually have the answer reliably when you need it.
In terms of things I think would be (1) not out of color pie and (2) actually make a significant impact, I think the top two are:
(1) give white big win-conditiony things (like secure the wastes for XWW and the tokens have prowess? just spitballing), and
(2) give mono-white some really good commanders
The former because wincons are the most likely things to get tutored, and therefore cast in more games and have a bigger impact (ofc mono-white sucks at tutoring nonenchantment/nonequipment cards, so maybe make some of those) and the latter because, well, they sit in the command zone and get played a lot, obviously. These little hosers and tech cards are fine but they won't get played much and they won't have a significant impact on the color as a whole unless there are just, like, a crapton of them, because you'll rarely draw them.
In terms of what I actually WANT for mono-white, it's more unexpectedly absent-quality removal, because that's what I want to play, when I want to play white. But in terms of what the common EDH-player would need to see white as a viable color, it's probably those two things.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Enchantment
Shroud, indestructible
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may search your library for any number of plains cards and put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
You may play with plains cards in your hand revealed. Those cards do not count towards your hand size.
When you discard a plains card, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I don't think we'll ever get better than land tax tbh.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
i use collorless ramp and draw (obviously)
if i catch a player of guard (which can be rather easy in white) while i have ~5 tokens and jazal and 5 mana i can usually one-shot them
this means if i draw the correct cards i can do some real damage from turn 5 possibly eliminating 2 players by turn 6-7 lest they have no quick way to deal with it.
the collorless card draw and manaramp can and has kept me in for the long games as well. giving me the resources to rebuild to that fatal 5 tokens+jazal wincondition.
things like mask of memory and skullclamp are key to boros and mono-white edh.
im planning to find a copy of teferi's protection so i can possibly one shot someone and protection to my turn to avoid the consequenses
boros and mono-white can definitely be strong if you know how to build it.
ofcourse we also now have endless atlas to play with
boros/white is a fun color imo because you must play around its weaknesses while still playing to it's strengths.
bad at carddraw but great at combat? great, draw with combat!
Well, yes and no. Shirei can trigger once each turn for each of your creatures. Teshar can trigger once per spell. Typically, outside combos (and it seems unreasonable to talk about combos in a vacuum - at least to me vacuum refers to what happens in a typical situation, ignoring interaction from the oppeont - it is also why I think Marchesa is not as good in a vacuum - there are many 1 power creatures or historic spells. There are not that many creatures that etb with +1/+1 counters or ways to give them some and thus it is not quite common to get many such creatures), you will play the same card only once a turn. E.g. say that you play 3 cards each turn and have 2 opponents. Shirei can get 9 etb/leaves play triggers easily (3 at the end of each players turn). Teshar will get 6 effects. This is not even taking into account that in the next round, Shirei can get 18, while Teshar is stuck at 6. With more oppeonts, it is even more extreme.
It's a pretty complicated topic, and one probably left for it's own thread. But Marchesa does have 'dethrone' built into all your creatures, so you have a natural way of getting +1/+1 counters. Also the most notable feature of Marchesa is that board wipes are ineffective against you as the trigger of returning will happen regardless of Marchesa being in play or not, where as Shirei has to be in play still. This means that you can have Marchesa go to the graveyard as well and they will all return at end of turn.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Balance style cards, because it suits white’s attitude of equality: If not bring your advantage up to others you pull them down instead. White is also known for suppression, so if we combine both:
Balance Suppress
3WW
Sorcery
Choose target player who controls the lowest number of permanents. Each other player sacrifices permanents until the total number of permanents under their control is equal to that number. Then, each player draw cards equal to the number of permanents they sacrifices this way.
This would allow white players who normally control the highest number of tokens to immediately refresh their hand in an act of seemly equalizing move. Power level could be adjusted of course.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Rehashing it is just wasting our time.
We need to look at ways to improve white's performance unrelated to card advantage.
Ways to strengthen agro strategies as a whole. Finishers in white's wheel space so that it can reliably close out a game. Maybe some ways for it to reign in singular players without making everyone else at the table hate you*.
*I actually feel like this is a big reason why playing white decreases your odds of winning in Commander. Because a lot of white's design space is occupied by cards/effects that are flat out unfun to play against, which causes everyone else to gang up on you just to get rid of that effect. Even if you're the only one who's keeping a run away player in check. Cards like Thalia, or Mindcensor, or Spirit of the Labyrinthe, or stax pieces etc may as well be giant blinking neon signs that say "KILL ME FIRST TO GET RID OF THIS!" And white in commander tends towards these effects, because it simply can't compete using one of it's primary tactic in other formats; creature agro.
So it's not unreasonable at all to be talking about it and discussing good designs to make it fit within the white framework and mold.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
But I get that you're trying to mitigate discarding cards in some way. I'm pretty sure I can come up with an infinite for this if they return to hand when discarded..
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Doesn't destroy the lands they have just keeps green decks from pulling too far ahead. Combine that with a similar effect on hand size and or some draw that works the same way and I think White would be in a good spot.
TBH, the color pie was pretty well-established by Masques. Keep in mind that Armistice is also bad: "Cards! I've got cards today! 3WW a pop! And your friend gets some free tonic! You blue mages should know, it goes great with djinn. Would you like a card, good sir?"
(All the blue, green, black, and red mages scoff at how ludicrously overpriced Armistice is.)
On phasing:
Also Pursuit of Knowledge. White drawing is fine as long as it suits its color.
Armistice is perfect for white, since it's a trade, a lawful action of balance where you pay and give to gain a benefit yourself. Dawn of Hope not only focuses on life gain, it also produces tokens, both are within white's arsenal and draw card being a side benefit. Alms Collector's effect represents fairness and anti-cheating so frequently seen in white.
All three examples are fit for white draws.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Well, I think its also very valid to recognize that essentially every colorless effect breaks the color pie when it comes to limitations of colors. Every time they make a new better colorless sweeper, draw, threat, or anything that is normally given to a specific color you break the color pie a little more. Given that they still plan to make powerful and new artifacts its one of those things that given time you are going to dilute a lot of the color's weaknesses just given the amount of time the game is out and how much new content is created.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Spirit of the Labyrinth really is the ultimate balancing card for white's inability to draw. But there is only one of these in print.
So specifically for commander WotC need to be mindful of printing more like cards.
2W
Enchantment
Each player can't draw more than one card each turn.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
To use an example, it might be fine in the game of basketball for one team’s “identity” to be controlling the post, and another’s to have fast perimeter movement. But when it becomes prohibited for one team to shoot a 3-point shot, and prohibited to the other to block a shot, then your audience laughs.
All colors should be able to attack. All colors should be able to draw cards. The color pie should touch on two things: 1) how well or badly a given color does on each, 2) the subjective feeling of how the effect is gained.
Another good example – Survival Cache. It seems fine to me because 1) it’s worse in terms of game impact than Divination or Night’s Whisper, from the colors of Blue or Black that should be better at draw than White, 2) it subjectively feels like a mechanic based on retribution and eschewing excess, the identity of White.
No white spell would ever be more efficient than Mind’s Eye, Trading Post, Staff of Nin or the Immortal Sun (much less Memory Jar), so why bother? In a way, this works out perfectly as it means white can get these effects at the cost of being vulnerable to artifact destruction. That is not such a bad trade off.
I also agree with darrenhabib that more Spirit of the Labyrinth effects would be good.
1. Keep the Tutor Train Moving: White is actually pretty well-rounded as far as tutor effects go, grabbing Enchantments, Planeswalkers, Equipment, Legends, Weak Creatures, Cheap Creatures, and Basic plains. If wizards produces a couple more "2-for-1" tutors in white like Ranger of Eos or reusable tutors like Lin Sivvi, white would make for a marvelous toolbox color.
2. Asymmetric Wraths and Value Kill: Cards like Winds of Rath and Hour of Reckoning allow deckbuilders to get value without hurting themselves. Likewise, cards like Settle the Wreckage and Return to Dust likewise allow white players to turn a single card into effective value.
3. Anti-Blowout Cards: For me, this includes non-creature token producers that don't require tons of mana investment (such as Assemble the Legion) and cheap cards that grant protection from wrath effects (Gaddock Teeg, the new Tajic, etc.) If we can get some of these cards in mono-white (Teferi's protection was a great start!), going all in with tokens can finally act as "card advantage".
4. Stax Pieces: While white gets a control card every now and then (Hushwing Gryff, Tocatli Honor Guard, Spirit of the Labyrinth), white doesn't get any real redundancy with these effects and I wish that not all of these cards were creatures (seriously, everything other than the kismet-esque effects of blind obedience/authority of the consuls becomes a hatebear). I wish that we could get some of these hatebear effects on cheap enchantments as well. Asymmetrical (or potentially asymmetrical) tax effects also allow white to partially ignore its weak mana-searching.
5. Recursion: White already has some pretty potent recursion engines going on. The ability to use Bruna to grab a karmic guide to grab a sun titan to grab a sword of fire and ice is pretty awesome. Once we reach a critical mass of ETB/Death recursion, we can make decks with hilarious levels of redundancy built into the design.
Indeed, which is why traditionally colorless solutions (in the past only artifacts) are on average more expensive than similar effects in respective colors, to compensate its generality, though that began to change with Mirrodin sets and equipments. I think WotC should avoid using colorless cards as "solution" to these problems, because recent cards no longer abide the rules/power level of the past (again, thx to Mirrodin sets).
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
No mention of Skullclamp? Considering white is the best at making small tokens...
My issue with Dawn of Hope is that it clears its own hurdle, and "card draw tied to lifegain" is something B does, after a fashion, and something we already see WU do. "Lifegain and card draw on the same card" is WU or simply G, though for the latter it has to again stay in green's lane. Sure, you're paying 2 for each card, but it's still turning every creature with lifelink (and Ajani's Mantra, and...) into a sort of Phyrexian Arena. To say nothing of what combining it with a lucky charm does. "Kicker 2. If kicked, cantrip." sounds dangerous.
On phasing: