For the second one, you name a card that is not in your deck and then use a different card to draw after your library is gone. Mirror of Fate can work the same way with LabMan
Or you do either in your upkeep so your draw step will be the win
a) How do I win with Doomsday and Necropotence with the cheapest and easiest available cards possible? I cannot afford Lion's Eye Diamond.
I don't understand. I guess put a pile with Laboratory Maniac and card draw? What are the circumstances? Like, you cast Doomsday and only have Necropotence and mana? I guess you put Flash, Laboratory Maniac, and Brainstorm... or any instant speed cantrip. Leap?
a) How do I win with Doomsday and Necropotence with the cheapest and easiest available cards possible? I cannot afford Lion's Eye Diamond.
I don't understand. I guess put a pile with Laboratory Maniac and card draw? What are the circumstances? Like, you cast Doomsday and only have Necropotence and mana? I guess you put Flash, Laboratory Maniac, and Brainstorm... or any instant speed cantrip. Leap?
Dunharrow, browsing reddit tells me that in order to win with Doomsday and Necropotence, I need to stack the cards in a specific order with specific cards. One of them is LED. I can't afford it.
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GMR21=OYS, I know you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Dunharrow, browsing reddit tells me that in order to win with Doomsday and Necropotence, I need to stack the cards in a specific order with specific cards. One of them is LED. I can't afford it.
if you want to minimize the mana you need, sure.
I feel like you should be able to read the cards - specifically lab maniac - and figure out how to win pretty easily. I mean all the information is right there on the card.
Also not sure how this latest scheme fits with what your play group wants to do. Doomsday zur is pretty boring to play against.
P.s. if you cant afford a top tier wincon piece, probably a sign to find another wincon. Card replacement makes things like doomsday waaay more fragile.
LED is not necessary to build a Doomsday pile. What it gives you is the most mana efficient (in a vacuum) Doomsday piles.
Assuming you're winning off Laboratory Maniac, a DD pile at just needs to be able to draw 4 cards, then draw 1 card. What makes it complex is doing so in the most mana efficient way. A very simple example would be (in the order you'll draw them):
You cast your starting draw spell to draw Tidings. Cast Tidings to draw the rest of your deck. Cast LabMan. Cast Ponder to draw a card and win. Of course, this is a pretty poor DD pile, as it requires having 9 mana available after you cast your starting spell - so 12 for the turn assuming the best case of your starter being free (e.g. Gitaxian Probe).
Spend some time thinking over what piles you could potentially build within your budget - cards that generate mana and those that draw or mill cards at a very low cost are good things to look for, as are recursion options. Because, frankly, if you can't come up with your own DD piles, you shouldn't be playing the spell - sure, you can look up the best one on the internet, and aim to go for that one, but this is EDH, things rarely go to plan. Often, one of the cards you want to pile isn't available - maybe it's in your hand, maybe you had to cast it earlier and someone used gravehate on it and so on. Being able to come up with workable piles on the fly is the skill behind good Doomsday use.
LED is not necessary to build a Doomsday pile. What it gives you is the most mana efficient (in a vacuum) Doomsday piles.
Assuming you're winning off Laboratory Maniac, a DD pile at just needs to be able to draw 4 cards, then draw 1 card. What makes it complex is doing so in the most mana efficient way. A very simple example would be (in the order you'll draw them):
You cast your starting draw spell to draw Tidings. Cast Tidings to draw the rest of your deck. Cast LabMan. Cast Ponder to draw a card and win. Of course, this is a pretty poor DD pile, as it requires having 9 mana available after you cast your starting spell - so 12 for the turn assuming the best case of your starter being free (e.g. Gitaxian Probe).
Spend some time thinking over what piles you could potentially build within your budget - cards that generate mana and those that draw or mill cards at a very low cost are good things to look for, as are recursion options. Because, frankly, if you can't come up with your own DD piles, you shouldn't be playing the spell - sure, you can look up the best one on the internet, and aim to go for that one, but this is EDH, things rarely go to plan. Often, one of the cards you want to pile isn't available - maybe it's in your hand, maybe you had to cast it earlier and someone used gravehate on it and so on. Being able to come up with workable piles on the fly is the skill behind good Doomsday use.
This is a very useful reply. Thanks, Phrox.
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GMR21=OYS, I know you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
This basically kills most damage-based decks. Obviously week to things that destroy all permanents or all enchantments, and weak to non-targeted win conditions like Zulaport Cuthroat.
This basically kills most damage-based decks. Obviously week to things that destroy all permanents or all enchantments, and weak to non-targeted win conditions like Zulaport Cuthroat.
Greater Auramancy doesn't protect itself, so add something like Copy Enchantment or Estrid's Invocation to have two Greater Auramancies protecting each other.
The basic idea is to literally use Necropotence to draw as many cards as you have life. Then you're hoping to draw into Shimmer Myr. The deck has all the fast artifact mana, so you can cast a lot of your hand at end of turn, before you discard.
I don't know what the most tweaked version is supposed to be, but I googled and this deck list looks solid to me, but more research can be done to find out if there is any consensus on a "best list".
But it's a billion dollar deck, you need all the trinkets to make it work.
As far as Doomsday piles, without sounding condescending, you really have to know all the angles you can win with the cards in your deck. It is one of the hardest and skill intensive cards in all of Magic for this reason. Sure you can have one set pile, but often games go differently by the time you want to Doomsday.
There is also a common misconception that if you cast Doomsday you're going to win. In my competitive play group, when somebody goes for a Doomsday win, it normally only works out about 1/4 of the time. With 3 other players potentially having answers to what you're trying to do, it is as risky a card as you can get.
But there is actually a specialized "Discord" group that will help you assemble Doomsday piles if you simply ask for help in a nice way. I've used them before and got a plethora of responses to my Doomsday pile needs
It seems like your threads alternate between asking "Help me win in the most boring, most brutal, most screw-the-social-contract-y way possible" and "Help me, my playgroup gangs up on me and hates me"
Most hyper-efficient Doomsday piles usually run some sort of discard element, which is why going off with a Necropotence on the battlefield is potentially problematic because it exiles cards you discard.
a) How do I win with Doomsday and Necropotence with the cheapest and easiest available cards possible? I cannot afford Lion's Eye Diamond.
b) How does Demonic Consultation and Laboratory Maniac win games? DC says put the card into hand, not draw.
Thank you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Or you do either in your upkeep so your draw step will be the win
I don't understand. I guess put a pile with Laboratory Maniac and card draw? What are the circumstances? Like, you cast Doomsday and only have Necropotence and mana? I guess you put Flash, Laboratory Maniac, and Brainstorm... or any instant speed cantrip. Leap?
b) How does Demonic Consultation and Laboratory Maniac win games? DC says put the card into hand, not draw.
Thank you.
Do it on your upkeep, before draw phase? Have an instant-speed cantrip in hand? Aether Spellbomb? Attack with Zur and get Attunement or Fate Foretold or Curiosity or Disinformation Campaign.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Dunharrow, browsing reddit tells me that in order to win with Doomsday and Necropotence, I need to stack the cards in a specific order with specific cards. One of them is LED. I can't afford it.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
I feel like you should be able to read the cards - specifically lab maniac - and figure out how to win pretty easily. I mean all the information is right there on the card.
Also not sure how this latest scheme fits with what your play group wants to do. Doomsday zur is pretty boring to play against.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
P.s. if you cant afford a top tier wincon piece, probably a sign to find another wincon. Card replacement makes things like doomsday waaay more fragile.
Assuming you're winning off Laboratory Maniac, a DD pile at just needs to be able to draw 4 cards, then draw 1 card. What makes it complex is doing so in the most mana efficient way. A very simple example would be (in the order you'll draw them):
Tidings
Laboratory Maniac
Ponder
anything
anything
You cast your starting draw spell to draw Tidings. Cast Tidings to draw the rest of your deck. Cast LabMan. Cast Ponder to draw a card and win. Of course, this is a pretty poor DD pile, as it requires having 9 mana available after you cast your starting spell - so 12 for the turn assuming the best case of your starter being free (e.g. Gitaxian Probe).
Spend some time thinking over what piles you could potentially build within your budget - cards that generate mana and those that draw or mill cards at a very low cost are good things to look for, as are recursion options. Because, frankly, if you can't come up with your own DD piles, you shouldn't be playing the spell - sure, you can look up the best one on the internet, and aim to go for that one, but this is EDH, things rarely go to plan. Often, one of the cards you want to pile isn't available - maybe it's in your hand, maybe you had to cast it earlier and someone used gravehate on it and so on. Being able to come up with workable piles on the fly is the skill behind good Doomsday use.
This is a very useful reply. Thanks, Phrox.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Solitary Confinement
Greater Auramancy
Dictate of Kruphix/necropotence
This basically kills most damage-based decks. Obviously week to things that destroy all permanents or all enchantments, and weak to non-targeted win conditions like Zulaport Cuthroat.
You can add on Phyrexian Unlife to deal with more threats.
A lot of them go for Rest in Peace + Helm of Obedience.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
The basic idea is to literally use Necropotence to draw as many cards as you have life. Then you're hoping to draw into Shimmer Myr. The deck has all the fast artifact mana, so you can cast a lot of your hand at end of turn, before you discard.
Then Aetherflux Reservoir is the main win condition.
I don't know what the most tweaked version is supposed to be, but I googled and this deck list looks solid to me, but more research can be done to find out if there is any consensus on a "best list".
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ad-nauseam-doomsday-zur-2/
But it's a billion dollar deck, you need all the trinkets to make it work.
As far as Doomsday piles, without sounding condescending, you really have to know all the angles you can win with the cards in your deck. It is one of the hardest and skill intensive cards in all of Magic for this reason. Sure you can have one set pile, but often games go differently by the time you want to Doomsday.
There is also a common misconception that if you cast Doomsday you're going to win. In my competitive play group, when somebody goes for a Doomsday win, it normally only works out about 1/4 of the time. With 3 other players potentially having answers to what you're trying to do, it is as risky a card as you can get.
But there is actually a specialized "Discord" group that will help you assemble Doomsday piles if you simply ask for help in a nice way. I've used them before and got a plethora of responses to my Doomsday pile needs
Doomsday - Discord.gg
https://discord.gg/vajvFXt
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I'm just saying.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections