[Official]
The Return of the Annual Dream Banlist Poll
Poll: What cards do you think should be banned in EDH/Commander?
Log in with your Curse username to vote in this poll.
What cards do you think should be banned in EDH/Commander? - Multiple Choice
- Ad Nauseam 16.3% of Users - 14 votes
- * Ancestral Recall 72.1% of Users - 62 votes
- Armageddon 10.5% of Users - 9 votes
- Ashnod's Altar 7% of Users - 6 votes
- * Balance 64% of Users - 55 votes
- Basalt Monolith 1.2% of Users - 1 votes
- Beacon of Tomorrows 8.1% of Users - 7 votes
- * Biorhythm 55.8% of Users - 48 votes
- * Black Lotus 81.4% of Users - 70 votes
- Blightsteel Colossus 14% of Users - 12 votes
- * Braids, Cabal Minion 40.7% of Users - 35 votes
- Cabal Coffers 3.5% of Users - 3 votes
- Capture of Jingzhou 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- * Channel 73.3% of Users - 63 votes
- * Coalition Victory 53.5% of Users - 46 votes
- Consecrated Sphinx 11.6% of Users - 10 votes
- Craterhoof Behemoth 16.3% of Users - 14 votes
- Cyclonic Rift 30.2% of Users - 26 votes
- Deadeye Navigator 16.3% of Users - 14 votes
- Demonic Tutor 9.3% of Users - 8 votes
- Doomsday 11.6% of Users - 10 votes
- Doubling Season 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- Earthcraft 4.7% of Users - 4 votes
- * Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 66.3% of Users - 57 votes
- Enlightened Tutor 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- * Erayo, Soratami Ascendant 54.7% of Users - 47 votes
- Expropriate 16.3% of Users - 14 votes
- * Fastbond 76.7% of Users - 66 votes
- Food Chain 12.8% of Users - 11 votes
- Gaea's Cradle 24.4% of Users - 21 votes
- Genesis Wave 1.2% of Users - 1 votes
- * Gifts Ungiven 30.2% of Users - 26 votes
- Glen Elendra Archmage 0% of Users - 0 votes
- Grim Monolith 7% of Users - 6 votes
- Grindstone 7% of Users - 6 votes
- * Griselbrand 68.6% of Users - 59 votes
- Hermit Druid 7% of Users - 6 votes
- Iona, Shield of Emeria 47.7% of Users - 41 votes
- * Karakas 72.1% of Users - 62 votes
- Kokusho, the Evening Star 2.3% of Users - 2 votes
- Krark-Clan Ironworks 0% of Users - 0 votes
- * Leovold, Emissary of Trest 68.6% of Users - 59 votes
- * Library of Alexandria 59.3% of Users - 51 votes
- * Limited Resources 64% of Users - 55 votes
- Lion's Eye Diamond 10.5% of Users - 9 votes
- Living Plane 2.3% of Users - 2 votes
- Mana Crypt 30.2% of Users - 26 votes
- Mana Vault 17.4% of Users - 15 votes
- Metalworker 9.3% of Users - 8 votes
- Mind Over Matter 1.2% of Users - 1 votes
- Mind's Desire 1.2% of Users - 1 votes
- Mind's Dilation 0% of Users - 0 votes
- Mishra's Workshop 15.1% of Users - 13 votes
- * Mox Emerald 79.1% of Users - 68 votes
- * Mox Jet 79.1% of Users - 68 votes
- * Mox Pearl 77.9% of Users - 67 votes
- * Mox Ruby 79.1% of Users - 68 votes
- * Mox Sapphire 79.1% of Users - 68 votes
- Mystical Tutor 7% of Users - 6 votes
- Natural Order 3.5% of Users - 3 votes
- Necropotence 16.3% of Users - 14 votes
- Nexus of Fate 7% of Users - 6 votes
- Omen Machine 0% of Users - 0 votes
- Omniscience 8.1% of Users - 7 votes
- Oracle of Mul Daya 1.2% of Users - 1 votes
- * Painter's Servant 32.6% of Users - 28 votes
- Palinchron 23.3% of Users - 20 votes
- * Panoptic Mirror 50% of Users - 43 votes
- Paradox Engine 15.1% of Users - 13 votes
- Phyrexian Altar 3.5% of Users - 3 votes
- Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 3.5% of Users - 3 votes
- Protean Hulk 9.3% of Users - 8 votes
- * Primeval Titan 57% of Users - 49 votes
- * Prophet of Kruphix 64% of Users - 55 votes
- Purphoros, God of the Forge 15.1% of Users - 13 votes
- Ravages of War 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- * Recurring Nightmare 43% of Users - 37 votes
- Rhystic Study 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- * Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary 48.8% of Users - 42 votes
- Seedborn Muse 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- Serra Ascendant 16.3% of Users - 14 votes
- Skullclamp 1.2% of Users - 1 votes
- Sol Ring 31.4% of Users - 27 votes
- Staff of Domination 3.5% of Users - 3 votes
- * Sundering Titan 62.8% of Users - 54 votes
- Survival of the Fittest 8.1% of Users - 7 votes
- * Sylvan Primordial 62.8% of Users - 54 votes
- * Sway of the Stars 64% of Users - 55 votes
- The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale 22.1% of Users - 19 votes
- Temporal Manipulation 7% of Users - 6 votes
- Timetwister 11.6% of Users - 10 votes
- Time Spiral 4.7% of Users - 4 votes
- Time Stretch 8.1% of Users - 7 votes
- * Time Vault 79.1% of Users - 68 votes
- * Time Walk 77.9% of Users - 67 votes
- Time Warp 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- * Tinker 74.4% of Users - 64 votes
- * Tolarian Academy 65.1% of Users - 56 votes
- Tooth and Nail 19.8% of Users - 17 votes
- * Trade Secrets 65.1% of Users - 56 votes
- Triumph of the Hordes 3.5% of Users - 3 votes
- * Upheaval 64% of Users - 55 votes
- Vampiric Tutor 11.6% of Users - 10 votes
- Wheel of Fortune 2.3% of Users - 2 votes
- * Worldfire 65.1% of Users - 56 votes
- Worldgorger Dragon 2.3% of Users - 2 votes
- Worldly Tutor 5.8% of Users - 5 votes
- * Yawgmoth's Bargain 66.3% of Users - 57 votes
- Yawgmoth's Will 3.5% of Users - 3 votes
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You are also welcome to comment in the thread about how you voted and why, but please refrain from commenting on how others voted or starting debates/discussion about why certain cards should be banned. There is a dedicated subforum for discussing the rules and ban list.
(* Asterisks denote cards which are currently banned)
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- Gifts Ungiven: combo players gonna combo, and there is no shortage of easy ways to combo. Gifts doesn't do anything that we can't already do, and there are some legitimate uses for the card.
- Library of Alexandria: no surprise there. I've been advocating for years to remove PBtE, and I think that's the only thing that pushes it over the edge. I simply don't agree that it is too strong in a multiplayer format.
+ Sol Ring: the card is too powerful and too ubiquitous. It also doesn't add anything to the format, and the time is long gone when it was one of the "oh cool I can dig this out of my binder and actually use it" cards. (Note that I did not vote for Mana Crypt because it still has that status, the price gives it a real barrier for everyone to use, and the drawback means that you can't simply just jam it in a deck in the place of a basic land.)
Notable surprises: I voted for Recurring Nightmare. As much as I love the card and wish I could use it, I think it would be a very centralizing card, much in the way that Primeval Titan, Prophet of Kruphix, or Sylvan Primordial were. And because of how the card was designed, the answers are limited in scope.
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I approached my vote on this poll from the standpoint that I was designing a banned list for non cEDH intended play. The intended play for my suggestions is essentially non combo / non mld focused metas in the mid to low tier of competitive play. The reason I am saying this is because the focus of what kind of meta and environment you intend to play in sort of dictates what is broken and what is not. I suspect a cEDH focused list would start by taking about half of the banned cards away and adding tons of tutors / fast mana / most extreme case combos out.
-Braids, Cabal Minion - I honestly haven't seen stax be really viable since she went full banned. I think she is actually quite fair given how much of a buff creatures and tokens have gotten the last few years not to mention the amount of spot removal that is out there these days. When you show her as your commander also there is the knowing that she is going to drop and the ability to prepare for her. She can be rough but I honestly don't see her as needing to be banned. She punishes tables that do nothing but land ramp but I actually don't think there is a need to keep her banned anymore or at the least I would wan't to see her in action to still be on board with keeping her banned.
-Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - This might just be a case that its been banned for so long that I want to see if its actually a problem still. Back when Emrakul 1.0 was legal I remember almost all games devolving to eldrazi monsters everywhere but to be honest it seems quite rare that I see any eldrazi used anymore. People have moved more and more to niche decks and specific dedicated strategy builds and I just don't see this as anything more than a generic wincon that could go anywhere but I do feel like I see less of the generic green ramp.deck that I saw 8 years ago when this came out. It isn't something that I feel the need to fight to free it but its something that honestly I am not sure what the impact would be if it came back.
-Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - I have never been able to get behind the RC's stance on why this is on the banned list. I wouldn't run it myself but really anyone who is playing to the level it takes to build and make this banworthy is breaking the game with some other deck anyways. I don't see this as being a special situation and if you are playing to that level you will probably break anyone not on that level with any of your decks anyways. When everyone is on the same page I think this is perfectly fine.
-Gifts Ungiven - I disagree with this being a problem card. It "could" be more dangerous than Demonic Tutor for combo players but the banned list isn't built to stop them anyways so mehhh.
-Painter's Servant - this isn't even that efficient. Stop banning this super narrow combo enabler. The justification of why it stays banned is completely silly. It has as much fair use potential as Hermit Druid so stop making it an outlier.
-Panoptic Mirror - I won't fight for or against it but I do think this could go for the most part. I am willing to let it stay due to casual players but I don't really think that it belongs on the banned list for anyone in the mid tier of competitive players or up.
-Prophet of Kruphix - I never had an issue with this card. I very rarely saw it end games or lead to games ending. Given that I don't really have a problem with it I would vote to remove it in favor of a smaller banned list.
-Sundering Titan - I honestly don't see it as anything worse than Ruination. Sure its on a stick and it could be flickered. Run less colors, run less duals that are basic land types, or try to get in faster. Anyone who is using this to repeatedly blow up lands could do the same damn thing with just casting Armageddon so I don't see how it deserves to be banned when so much of the rest of the MLD options still run amok.
-Tolarian Academy - Really, I would love to have seen some footage of whatever deck / decks caused this card to get banned. I don't really believe that 100 card singleton is consistent enough to play this early with a bunch of artifacts and still have follow up to play off of this. You can totally come up with god hands for it but it seems like it would probably be very niche commanders who could even be built in this way and even then I feel like god hands would have to be set up for me to feel that its even decent.
+Craterhoof Behemoth - Just given how accessible he is mixed with how much power he brings to hand are my issues here. Its not a competative card but I dislike how centralizing he is for the types of decks he fits in. He greatly eclipses even the next best effect after him that resembles what he does. The counter plays to him can also be very tricky given that its mostly fogs and countermagic that puts a stop to him.
+Iona, Shield of Emeria - I have never understood how this card is acceptable to the RC. I won't compare it to other things they have banned but this card is so much more oppressive than a good number of things they have actually banned (for the purpose that they are unfun). The worst part of this card in my mind is that its this big mythic angel that more casual players don't actually see a problem with running. Those kind of people make me want to make a competitive stasis deck to make them see why its not fun.
+Necropotence - The card is crazy good in almost every tier of play. I don't really have much else to say about it because there really isn't a lot of ways to stop it as its like..... counter it or put them to low enough hp they can't play and use one.
+Purphoros, God of the Forge - I understand that probably NOBODY else votes against this guy but my issue with him is that he is so robust and difficult to interact with as well as the sheer output and versatility of him. He isnt a problem for competative magic but in mid tier and lower commander he can stick all game and do a staggering amount of damage.
+Serra Ascendant - Being that I am a mono white player this might sound a little odd especially given I play a good bit of her but in lower tiers of commander lots of players don't play enough answers and draw. Its not often that I see this run the table but there is a distinct dislike whenever anyone sees a turn one Serra. If you want to tunnel one player you might get a kill almost solely off the back of this card as well.
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[Modern] Allies
* Ad Nauseam: I'm fine with this being banned. It allows degenerate combo and weenie decks too easily to overtake the game.
* Ashnod's Altar: Whenever I see a new EtB "create tokens" card spoiled, the general consensus seems to be, "Oh, this can go infinite with Ashnod's Altar and Nim Deathmantle." Nim Deathmantle is fine on its own; the real combo enabler, here, is Ashnod's Altar, and it allows for degenerate decks like my Endrek Sahr build to exist.
* Beacon of Tomorrows: Yo dawg, we heard you like infinite "extra turns" decks. What a great amount of fun this card turned out to be for Commander, eh?
* Deadeye Navigator: Another denegerate infinite combo piece. Palinchron says "hi".
* Expropriate: This card might as well read, "You win the game." Multiple turns in a row uninterrupted tends to lead to degenerate boardstates that are either difficult or impossible to deal with in a single turn cycle - if you even have another turn after this resolves. Even still, tacking on a Blatant Thievery to a Time Walk is just ridiculous.
* Griselbrand: Because how am I supposed to have an epic Vorthos Liliana deck without Griselbrand in it? I mean, really.
* Iona: Unban Painter's Servant. Ban Iona. Boom. Problem solved.
* Library of Alexandria: What cryo said.
* Mishra's Workshop: This is not really a casual card. Commander is a casual format. 1 + 1 =/= 3.
* Necropotence: Somehow worse than Griselbrand. Somehow not Griselbanned.
* Nexus of Fate: See Beacon of Tomorrows.
* Painter's Servant: See Iona.
* Panoptic Mirror: This card is hilarious and fun and can lead to bizarre and interactive gamestates - basically, what Commander should strive to be in a nutshell.
* Phyrexial Altar: See Ashnod's Altar.
* Purphoros, God of the Forge: Uninteractive combo piece that makes it entirely too easy to win with token decks.
* Sol Ring: What cryo said.
* Tolarian Academy: I absolutely love degenerate artifact combos that don't go infinite. It saddens me that I will never get to use this card in a Commander deck.
* Tooth and Nail: Another "you win the game" card, basically. Craterhoof + Avenger of Zendikar. GG. So interactive and difficult to pull off in green, amiriet?
* Vampiric Tutor: Really, most tutors - especially undercosted tutors - should be banned from this format. I use maybe one non-land tutor card in all of my decks, and that's Sidisi, Undead Vizier, which I use in my Endrek sac deck. I used to run Rune-Scarred Demon, but he didn't feel right for the theme.
Also, rofl at the idea that Mind's Dilation should be banned
That's about it.
{мы, тьма}
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
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Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Cards that I'd move to unban:
Biorhythm: There was a time where creatures weren't as good as removal. That time has past, and commanders are creatures. If the only permanents in play were mana + everyone's generals when Biorhythm was cast and someone lost because they had a Planeswalker commander. Shed no tears for that guy. Nowadays, Biorhythm is a more expensive Triumph of the Hordes.
Coalition Victory: Some people just assume that having your 5-color general in play and a few duals in play is a given. Therefore, there's no cost to playing this other than the 3WUBRG. Well, there's a cost to playing 5-colors. There's also better ways to win other than playing this 8 cmc card. Alternate win cons are cool (like Biorhythm) and people should get to play them if they want.
Limited Resources: It's so funny how a crappy card from Exodus ended up here among Moxen and like. People just cannot get over losing their lands. Come on, you don't even lose all of them. /s Stax players are pretty maligned and bullied out of this format (by the good players and the bad players). Real casual, real inclusive... Besides Balance and Braids, it's the only stax piece on the list but pales in comparison. Again, people should get to play what they want.
Panoptic Mirror: Cost is high, payoff is low. So why is this cool card on the list? Oh, because it copies time magic, yet all [non-RL] time magic is unbanned...so, again, people should get to play this if they want.
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary: This guy ramps- not even that hard by modern standards. Out of the banned-as-commander cards, this guy doesn't lock anyone out. So why is he still here?
Cards I went back and forth on:
Gifts Ungiven: It tutors, so people more opportunities to get to play their cards during a game. But it makes combo really easy and Intuition is close enough that I don't feel bad people cannot build Gifts piles. Stay banned.
Purphoros, God of the Forge: I personally don't mind sitting behind a Solitary Confinement which will never be dealt with by the mono-red player. But this card means the game is essentially archenemy, no matter the power level of the build. Even with the over-use of "exile" on new cards, it's still the same. However, if people want to play it...
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- Panoptic Mirror: Actually slow, fragile, does same things that other cards that are perfectly legal can do.
- Library of Alexandria: Wouldn't become that ubiquitous due to the AN buyouts happening the past couple years that make it now a $1258 average card. The only exceptions being MTGO which may not have long to live, proxies which not everyone allows, or people who smartly bought it before the buyouts starting in 2016.
- Biorhythm: Only kills players who deliberately put very few creatures in their decks by itself, lowers padded life totals, just rewards decks that go-wide, may not be included in creature heavy decks due to not being a permanent for both Primal Surge and Genesis Wave liking.
- Painter's Servant: Fine by itself, insane with really just Iona, Shield of Emeria.
ADD:
+ Sol Ring: Just Get rid of it for everyones sake.
+ Purphoros, God of the Forge: Actually a pain to get rid of even once, promotes uninteractive gameplay, kills the table too quickly, requires silver bullets that don't always make the cut.
+ Tooth and Nail: Has actually only two modes in play, "win game now" or "purposefully durdle".
+ Iona, Shield of Emeria: Actually unfun to play against. Locks out the table with Painter's Servant if nobody has activatable or triggered answers already in play if it resolves.
- Primeval Titan: Diehard fan. Exile removal is getting better every year
- Recurring Nightmare: Never seen it played. May not have the impact it did back then. I could easily be swayed the other way and should probably stay banned.
+ Craterhoof Behemoth: Jeeze this card is much to easy to win with in green. As said above it is just so overpowered as an overrun effect compared to anything else available.
+ Palinchron: Although it may not get as much favor as it used to. It is common among "Casual Combo" players and does not add anything interesting to the format
+ Armageddon: Opportunity cost too low for destroying all lands. Play the other options that cost a little more.
I kind of want to vote for Purphoros, God of the Forge. It is overpowered and hard to interact with, but in red, so I will leave my opinion on it in this post instead of in the poll.
Also I agreed in the recent thread that fast mana is bad for the format, however I did not vote to ban any of it. Hypocritical of me? If Sol Ring or Mana Crypt were banned, I would understand and not complain about it too much.
Biorhythm - I'm still not entirely sure why this was banned in the first place. Seems fine. I'm not thrilled about Elfball decks getting access to it, but honestly I think Craterhoof Behemoth is the better finisher for those decks anyways.
Braids, Cabal Minion - She's always been fine in the 99. She's only a problem when she's the general of a deck specifically built to make her as oppressive as possible. That feels like a situation that should be handled by the social contract.
Coalition Victory - I'm pretty sure I've made my opinions on this card fairly clear in it's SCD thread. Long story short, 8+ mana spells (like Tooth and Nail) gonna win the game anyways, regardless if they actually say "win the game" on them or not. No need to single out Coalition Victory.
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - Same problem as Braids, mostly. Fine in the 99, terrible when built as an oppressive commander. Again, seems like it can be handled with the social contract instead of a flat ban.
Painter's Servant - Really only a problem in combination with Iona, Shield of Emeria. Painter's Servant is a fun little card and we should trust people to not play it with Deathgrip. I just want to hit someone with Rith, the Awakener with a Painter's Servant in play and make all the saprolings. Please.
Added:
Cyclonic Rift - This card truly is obnoxious to an absurd degree. The only way to stop it is to counter it, which means you're also in blue and are almost certainly running your own Cyclonic Rift. I hate this card.
Iona, Shield of Emeria - Iona is very much the epitome the cards that should be on the ban list. She's big, flashy, and an angel. People love her. But she's also secretly terrible for the game. She exists only to lock players out of actually playing the game.
Mana Crypt + Mana Vault + Sol Ring - The holy trinity of fast mana. We've collectively figured out long ago that fast mana is one of the most broken things you can ever do in this game, but for some reason these are still legal. It's honestly baffling.
Mishra's Workshop - See the holy trinity. Powering out even more artifact mana on T1 is still broken.
Natural Order - Green's Tinker. I'm extremely wary of any card that simultaneously tutors and lets you cheat on mana. The combination never leads to anything good.
Paradox Engine - This card also never does anything good. It gets played and immediately destroyed, or whoever played it spends forever seeing if they can storm off. It's extremely good, goes into most decks, and once it's down the game slows to a crawl because of the constant triggers. It's simply too easy to break, even when you're not trying to.
Whereas I almost didn't vote for Trade Secrets. It's just a card that I've never really had issues with when it was legal, but it's also not one that I have any particular argument for adding anything to the format.
Paradox Engine is another card I was on the fence about. I wouldn't shed one tear if it was gone, but at the same time I don't think it is ubiquitous enough to warrant a ban.
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's a bit annoying with how easy it to to create a massive ammount of small creatures for resonable amounts of mana. I've been at 34 life and died because it came back to the Purph players turn.
I run Paradox Engine and can see why you'd want it gone. I don't think it's quite at that level, but I can also see how it's super strong. If it had to go, I wouldn't complain.
I chose Expropriate, but no other time spells. Sure they're annoying, but a lot of times they won't end the game. I see more people scoop in response than genuinely lose to a single extra turn. Expropriate is different, obviously. More so because solitaire isn't fun, but the possibility of up to 4 turns in a row is game breaking too.
I made the thread.
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[Modern] Allies
I still think getting rid of "banned as Commander" was a mistake, but the only card I'd unban if that was still around is black Braids. In the 99, she's fine, and literally irreplaceable, as nothing else serves the same role.
I'n new here, but not in magic... in all my years playing commander, there is nothing more boring that protean hulk... please, do us a favor an ban this card again. All the fun is gone when you can't even play a land or play a turn... or atlest ban FLASH... MAKE MAGIG FUN AGAIN.
ooohh, an unban Rofellos.. there is more powefull cards like selvala o yisan.
greetings to everyone.
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