Etrata, the Silencer 2UB
Legendary Creature - Vampire Assassin (R)
Etrata, the Silencer can't be blocked.
Whenever Etrata deals combat damage to a player, exile target creature that player controls and put a hit counter on that card. That player loses the game if they own three or more exiled cards with hit counters on them. Etrata's owner shuffles Etrata into their library.
3/5
Combat trigger, self-bounce with Cavern Harpy and such.
Etrata, the Silencer 2UB
Legendary Creature - Vampire Assassin (R)
Etrata, the Silencer can't be blocked.
Whenever Etrata deals combat damage to a player, exile target creature that player controls and put a hit counter on that card. That player loses the game if they own three or more exiled cards with hit counters on them. Etrata's owner shuffles Etrata into their library.
3/5
Combat trigger, self-bounce with Cavern Harpy and such.
Realistically going to be a bit slow.
8 mana each turn (4 for the Etrata, 2 for the Harpy, and 2 to recast Lazav) for three turns, probably unlikely to be consistent. Exiling a creature is proactive however.
However Hibernation Sliver is another protection two mana card that can bounce Lazav.
Etrata, the Silencer 2UB
Legendary Creature - Vampire Assassin (R)
Etrata, the Silencer can't be blocked.
Whenever Etrata deals combat damage to a player, exile target creature that player controls and put a hit counter on that card. That player loses the game if they own three or more exiled cards with hit counters on them. Etrata's owner shuffles Etrata into their library.
3/5
Combat trigger, self-bounce with Cavern Harpy and such.
Realistically going to be a bit slow.
8 mana each turn (4 for the Etrata, 2 for the Harpy, and 2 to recast Lazav) for three turns, probably unlikely to be consistent. Exiling a creature is proactive however.
However Hibernation Sliver is another protection two mana card that can bounce Lazav.
Yes, though she could still be a removal option.
Now come to think of it, perhaps some ninjas in graveyard would be fun to have also. except they're on the pricy side (above 3cc).
Why would it keep Dreadnaught's power when it changes into Morphling? Becoming a new creature would include its P/T.
Nevermind I see what you did, yeah that would work but it would require a lot of setup and Training Grounds also doesn't make anything Free.
613.1. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
613.1a Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, "Copying Objects."
613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.
613.1c Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, "Text-Changing Effects."
613.1d Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. These include effects that change an object's card type, subtype, and/or supertype.
613.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied.
613.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding effects, ability-removing effects, and effects that say an object can’t have an ability are applied.
613.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, "Counters."
613.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature's power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature's toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature's power.
So, basically layer 7c is applied long after layer 1.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The idea is that once you get a +1/+1 counters on Lazav you can turn him into pay off cards. You need to be careful because a bunch of them are 0/0, hence the need for at least one +1/+1 before you look to use some of them.
But it's very nice to have a tool box of options during the course of the game.
The neat thing with Lazav, the Multifarious and Walking Ballista in your graveyard with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed you can use the +1/+1 undying counter to deal damage to Lazav himself (as he gets +1/+1 bonus from Mikaeus you need a means to kill him), sending him to the graveyard. Because you can activate Lazav to become the Walking Ballista for 0, means you can keep doing this infinitely and get infinite Surveil.
Let's say you play Laboratory Maniac and Hapless Researcher in your deck. You Surveil your whole deck, so no library left. Then spend 1 for Lazav to become the Hapless Researcher. Sacrifice him to draw a card, and with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed undying will trigger, bringing Lazav/Hapless Researcher back into play with with the draw ability still on the stack. Then respond by spending 3 to make Lazav the Laboratory Maniac and then the draw will resolve and you will win.
The idea is that once you get a +1/+1 counters on Lazav you can turn him into pay off cards. You need to be careful because a bunch of them are 0/0, hence the need for at least one +1/+1 before you look to use some of them.
But it's very nice to have a tool box of options during the course of the game.
The neat thing with Lazav, the Multifarious and Walking Ballista in your graveyard with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed you can use the +1/+1 undying counter to deal damage to Lazav himself (as he gets +1/+1 bonus from Mikaeus you need a means to kill him), sending him to the graveyard. Because you can activate Lazav to become the Walking Ballista for 0, means you can keep doing this infinitely and get infinite Surveil.
Let's say you play Laboratory Maniac and Hapless Researcher in your deck. You Surveil your whole deck, so no library left. Then spend 1 for Lazav to become the Hapless Researcher. Sacrifice him to draw a card, and with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed undying will trigger, bringing Lazav/Hapless Researcher back into play with with the draw ability still on the stack. Then respond by spending 3 to make Lazav the Laboratory Maniac and then the draw will resolve and you will win.
The main reason I am trying to focus on artifacts is that I want to run both Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold to control the top of deck. With that I can run Skill Borrower or control what my Mindshrieker mills. I have also thought of Deceiver of Form, because turning a handful of weenies into an army of Eater of Days is the kind of thing that amuses me. Unfortunately it clashes with my stax plan.
Another card I like is Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive because our support cards are all 1 power or toughness. Speaking of support, Dreamscape Artist is at home in this deck.
The way I keep thinking about Lazav is to make him a straight control commander. Keep only the Dreadnought in your 'yard and just swing away at people while controlling the stack and field via Dimir's strong control field. So, I guess a Voltron approach would be what I'm suggesting.
Although I do love the idea of including Mikaeus, the Ballista, and a package of value creatures too. I think that there's got to be a set of creatures in Dimir colors that have fantastic static abilities that needs to be explored. That way Lazav is always a creature generating value at any stage of the game. Cards like Graveborn Muse, Consuming Aberration, or Dark Confidant come to mind.
The way I keep thinking about Lazav is to make him a straight control commander. Keep only the Dreadnought in your 'yard and just swing away at people while controlling the stack and field via Dimir's strong control field. So, I guess a Voltron approach would be what I'm suggesting.
Although I do love the idea of including Mikaeus, the Ballista, and a package of value creatures too. I think that there's got to be a set of creatures in Dimir colors that have fantastic static abilities that needs to be explored. That way Lazav is always a creature generating value at any stage of the game. Cards like Graveborn Muse, Consuming Aberration, or Dark Confidant come to mind.
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born for creatures removal, can mitigate the non-untaping if turned into another creature, and can get +1/+1 counters.
A control theme does have the problem that it's very mana intensive. Turning Lazav into the 4 or more mana creatures is costly, so you wouldn't have much mana to back up with actual control spells. Consecrated Sphinx and Sire of Stagnation are fine ways to load up your hand with spells, but is this the direction of a deck with Lazav? Maybe it does mean that opponents need double removal for any potential creature. You cast the real version, and then Lazav can copy it the next turn if opponents force its removal non-exiling it. So just loading up on powerful Dimir creatures could be a way to go, similar to The Mimeoplasm.
I looked up creatures with sort of downside to their upkeeps with the idea that you can swap what Lazav is to mitigate payment costs or whatever, if you have other cheap creatures to swamp before a clause happens.
You can in fact use Cumulative upkeeps with "age counters" as transferable resource.
So for example if you've used Flow of Maggots for it's evasion and you've also kept it's upkeep cost for say 3 turns and have 3 age counters on Lazav.
Then later on in the game this can be used with say Herald of Leshrac or Vexing Sphinx to get the bonuses.
More +1/+1 counters; Vebulid - will need a +1/+1 counter from another source first Necroplasm - can change before end of turn once has the 3 +1/+1 counters. Good thing is that you can change it during the game if needing to remove creatures, and use other +1/+1 to get it past the natural 3 counters. Khabál Ghoul
Chronozoa - Lazav will not have any counters, so you'll get the split straight away. Unfortunately needs to "die", so you want backup graveyard removal or reanimation, otherwise he'll remain there. Forgotten Creation - fueling graveyard
Yeah, the mana requirements so that you can quickly and easily flip between creatures over the course of a turn cycle is quite intensive. I'm thinking that a decent artifact ramp package wouldn't be a bad thing anyways, so maybe that worth exploring.
I like the list of creatures with static abilities that you list there. Another card I'm leaning on including (because this Lazav deck would be semi-casual) is Visara the Dreadful. I can't think of any creatures with a similar creature-killing ability that cost less than Visara, but that would definitely be worth exploring.
Chronozoa - Lazav will not have any counters, so you'll get the split straight away. Unfortunately needs to "die", so you want backup graveyard removal or reanimation, otherwise he'll remain there.
I split out my coffee seeing this. Players have been using Mirror Gallery more anyway, so this would turn Lazav into a true ninja with shadow clones, even harder to remove than before.
Chronozoa - Lazav will not have any counters, so you'll get the split straight away. Unfortunately needs to "die", so you want backup graveyard removal or reanimation, otherwise he'll remain there.
I split out my coffee seeing this. Players have been using Mirror Gallery more anyway, so this would turn Lazav into a true ninja with shadow clones, even harder to remove than before.
Oh wait, I didn't even think about what this really means. I was just assuming you'd get actual Chronozoa tokens, but what you get is a Lazav, the Multifarious with Chronozoa version.
That just means that you get one free die trigger because any other tokens will enter with the time counters.
The legend rule kicks in on that split, so you'll only get one copy. It will have the 3 time counters on it, which means that every 3 turns you'll have them trigger which will give you a single surveil.
At this stage this isn't really doing much. I was thinking that Torpor Orb would stop the time counters on ETB, but unfortunately this would cause an actual infinite loop that can't be broken, so would end in a draw. You'd have the legend rule kick in and this would in turn keep creating new version of Lazav, and you have no way of stopping it.
However this train of thought did make me think of Wormfang Manta. You can setup extra turns with Lazav copying it, and some way to remove Lazav. You can actually let him go to the command zone, as Wormfang Manta say "leaves play". If you had infinite mana then you could get infinite turns. You'd probably need a sacrifice outlet as well however. That is a lot of moving parts.
At this stage this isn't really doing much. I was thinking that Torpor Orb would stop the time counters on ETB, but unfortunately this would cause an actual infinite loop that can't be broken, so would end in a draw. You'd have the legend rule kick in and this would in turn keep creating new version of Lazav, and you have no way of stopping it.
However this train of thought did make me think of Wormfang Manta. You can setup extra turns with Lazav copying it, and some way to remove Lazav. You can actually let him go to the command zone, as Wormfang Manta say "leaves play". If you had infinite mana then you could get infinite turns. You'd probably need a sacrifice outlet as well however. That is a lot of moving parts.
Indeed! We're using Lazav to avoid enters battlefield penalties, so it makes sense to include the Orb to lock down everyone, and allow you to cast creatures-with-penalties without fear, in case Lzav got locked down.
At this stage this isn't really doing much. I was thinking that Torpor Orb would stop the time counters on ETB, but unfortunately this would cause an actual infinite loop that can't be broken, so would end in a draw. You'd have the legend rule kick in and this would in turn keep creating new version of Lazav, and you have no way of stopping it.
However this train of thought did make me think of Wormfang Manta. You can setup extra turns with Lazav copying it, and some way to remove Lazav. You can actually let him go to the command zone, as Wormfang Manta say "leaves play". If you had infinite mana then you could get infinite turns. You'd probably need a sacrifice outlet as well however. That is a lot of moving parts.
Indeed! We're using Lazav to avoid enters battlefield penalties, so it makes sense to include the Orb to lock down everyone, and allow you to cast creatures-with-penalties without fear, in case Lzav got locked down.
Another door opened!
If you did the Lazav as Chronozoa + Torpor Orb, then as I say you get an unbreakable infinite loop (that would have to end in a draw), however you will get infinite surveil. So I was thinking you could mill your entire library, then when the Chronozoa dies trigger is on the stack, before the tokens come into play, you could make the Lazav in play a Laboratory Maniac and then you need a draw card like Brainstorm as well to win the game. Chemister's Insight is a new instant speed draw card you can use from graveyard. So if you have 7 mana available you could look to combo win this way.
A combo I saw with Lazav is that you cast Buried Alive to put Necrotic Ooze, Bloodline Keeper, and Grimgrin, Corpse-Born into graveyard, turn into Necroplasm and immediately go infinite size, then attack as an unblockable. A well-known combo with Necrotic Ooze, but becomes easier with Lazav because he's readily available in command zone, all the more so with other aforementioned +1/+1 counters.
At this stage this isn't really doing much. I was thinking that Torpor Orb would stop the time counters on ETB, but unfortunately this would cause an actual infinite loop that can't be broken, so would end in a draw. You'd have the legend rule kick in and this would in turn keep creating new version of Lazav, and you have no way of stopping it.
This wouldn't actually work, because the counters get put on Chronozoa as a replacement effect and not an ETB trigger. "This card enters play with three time counters on it" and not "When this card enters the battlefield put three time counters on it."
At this stage this isn't really doing much. I was thinking that Torpor Orb would stop the time counters on ETB, but unfortunately this would cause an actual infinite loop that can't be broken, so would end in a draw. You'd have the legend rule kick in and this would in turn keep creating new version of Lazav, and you have no way of stopping it.
This wouldn't actually work, because the counters get put on Chronozoa as a replacement effect and not an ETB trigger. "This card enters play with three time counters on it" and not "When this card enters the battlefield put three time counters on it."
Thanks for the heads up, I was plotting and planning otherwise.
I’m really hoping this thread ain’t dead because I have a nasty combo with Lazav. I’m new to using the site so I’m not sure how to make it so you can see the card so I’ll just describe it really well. This combo involves Necrotic Ooze, Millikin, Pili-Pala, and *others*. So the way it works is having Necrotic Ooze, Millikin, and Pili-Pala in the graveyard which can easily be achieved by many means including Buried Alive. Where the combo starts is with Lazav morphing into Necrotic Ooze for the usual reasons. Next you use Millikin’s tap ability to become tapped, gain one colorless mana, and take the top card of your library and put it in your graveyard. Afterwards you spend a single of your own mana base in tandem with the mana you gained from tapping to use Pili-Pala’s untap ability which results in one mana. From here on out you no longer need any of you own mana because you start with one floating. Repeat tapping using Millikin’s tap once again removing a card from your library and now having enough to pay for Pili-Pala’s untap. Infinitely looping. At first thought this doesn’t seem good because you are going to kill your whole library. But that is exactly what we want in a Lazav, the Multifarious deck. By doing this you can essentially fetch any remaining combo pieces for other combos such as Bloodline Keeper, Grimgrin, Triskelion. Or you can do it the fun way and have Laboratory Maniac in your deck and fully mill yourself. Resulting in forcing Laboratory Maniac into the graveyard and transforming Lazav into Laboratory Maniac before your draw step. This combo only takes 1 mana (if you already have Lazav shapeshifted into Necrotic Ooze) to to activate, but note you still should have some left over to be safe in case you need to quickly make Lazav turn into a creature with hexproof, indestructible, etc. and back. Also if you’re doing the Laboratory Maniac win condition you need to have the mana to shapeshift Lazav into it before your draw step. A good strategy with this one is wait for the person before you to pass turn and interrupt it with your self mill combo.
I've started brewing Lazav, the Multifarious about a week ago, and felt like sharing some of my gems i didn't see here yet - or simply overread, :P.
-Creatures-
Crypt Rats - Makes for a board wipe from the graveyard. Just spend your U on something indestructible or else after activating it to turn it asymmetrical.
Cryptoplasm - Eot before your own turn you can set up your commander to turn him into anything of value, even from your opponents' boards.
Disciple of Deceit - I was astonished, that this card didn't turn up yet! Just swing with Lazav, shift him into Disciple before your turn and go nuts.
Fatespinner - Not yet sure, if i'll run this, but it should be a very decent target for inbetween turns.
Gurmag Swiftwing - Nothing but a keyword spender. But with haste and evasion at CMC 2 he's a great enabler if you just had to recast your commander.
Hedron Crab - Great 1 Drop to set yourself up and work with on the cheap when you need to mill yourself later on.
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed - Not as yanky or cheap as above, but exiling a creature plus mana generation seems very decent, if you ask me.
Silent Arbiter - Helps on the defense, works great if you attack with a multitude of creatures and combat triggers and then swap your commanders' shape to him.
Steel Hellkite - Rather mana intense, but with "artifact" breathing he can set you up for commander damage, plus he doubles as a solution for resolved artifacts, enchantments and others.
Stinkweed Imp - Playing him in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck i grew very fond of him. Dredge 5 is amazing and he comes with flying and pseudo deathtouch on top.
Withered Wretch - Instant speed graveyard disruption that's rather cheap to use.
-Noncreatures-
Cephalid Coliseum - We're naturally holding up mana with our commander, so holding up the mana that would ping us doesn't hurt too much - literally. Late game it can be the last straw you need.
Key to the City - Once again, allstar in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck. Being able to make the commander unblockable without spending mana (twice, to change back, y'know) is top notch, especially if that happens by discarding a possible finisher.
Soothsaying - Whenever i play a deck with U that's supposed to hold up mana i love including this card to rearrange my top deck with unused mana before my turn.
Unfulfilled Desires - I've never seen this card before my research, but darn, it's good!
Forbid - I favorably run it in decks with insane amount of card draw, but since this deck wants to discard every now and then anyways...
I've started brewing Lazav, the Multifarious about a week ago, and felt like sharing some of my gems i didn't see here yet - or simply overread, :P.
-Creatures-
Crypt Rats - Makes for a board wipe from the graveyard. Just spend your U on something indestructible or else after activating it to turn it asymmetrical.
Cryptoplasm - Eot before your own turn you can set up your commander to turn him into anything of value, even from your opponents' boards.
Disciple of Deceit - I was astonished, that this card didn't turn up yet! Just swing with Lazav, shift him into Disciple before your turn and go nuts.
Fatespinner - Not yet sure, if i'll run this, but it should be a very decent target for inbetween turns.
Gurmag Swiftwing - Nothing but a keyword spender. But with haste and evasion at CMC 2 he's a great enabler if you just had to recast your commander.
Hedron Crab - Great 1 Drop to set yourself up and work with on the cheap when you need to mill yourself later on.
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed - Not as yanky or cheap as above, but exiling a creature plus mana generation seems very decent, if you ask me.
Silent Arbiter - Helps on the defense, works great if you attack with a multitude of creatures and combat triggers and then swap your commanders' shape to him.
Steel Hellkite - Rather mana intense, but with "artifact" breathing he can set you up for commander damage, plus he doubles as a solution for resolved artifacts, enchantments and others.
Stinkweed Imp - Playing him in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck i grew very fond of him. Dredge 5 is amazing and he comes with flying and pseudo deathtouch on top.
Withered Wretch - Instant speed graveyard disruption that's rather cheap to use.
-Noncreatures-
Cephalid Coliseum - We're naturally holding up mana with our commander, so holding up the mana that would ping us doesn't hurt too much - literally. Late game it can be the last straw you need.
Key to the City - Once again, allstar in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck. Being able to make the commander unblockable without spending mana (twice, to change back, y'know) is top notch, especially if that happens by discarding a possible finisher.
Soothsaying - Whenever i play a deck with U that's supposed to hold up mana i love including this card to rearrange my top deck with unused mana before my turn.
Unfulfilled Desires - I've never seen this card before my research, but darn, it's good!
Forbid - I favorably run it in decks with insane amount of card draw, but since this deck wants to discard every now and then anyways...
I could certainly get behind Key to the City. Always good to have another non-Lazav option for unblock. I'd also suggest Breathstealer's Crypt to add control as well as discarding creatures in one.
Etrata, the Silencer 2UB
Legendary Creature - Vampire Assassin (R)
Etrata, the Silencer can't be blocked.
Whenever Etrata deals combat damage to a player, exile target creature that player controls and put a hit counter on that card. That player loses the game if they own three or more exiled cards with hit counters on them. Etrata's owner shuffles Etrata into their library.
3/5
Combat trigger, self-bounce with Cavern Harpy and such.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
8 mana each turn (4 for the Etrata, 2 for the Harpy, and 2 to recast Lazav) for three turns, probably unlikely to be consistent. Exiling a creature is proactive however.
However Hibernation Sliver is another protection two mana card that can bounce Lazav.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Yes, though she could still be a removal option.
Now come to think of it, perhaps some ninjas in graveyard would be fun to have also. except they're on the pricy side (above 3cc).
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
613.1. The values of an object's characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
613.1a Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, "Copying Objects."
613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.
613.1c Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, "Text-Changing Effects."
613.1d Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. These include effects that change an object's card type, subtype, and/or supertype.
613.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied.
613.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding effects, ability-removing effects, and effects that say an object can’t have an ability are applied.
613.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don't set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 121, "Counters."
613.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature's power and toughness are applied. Such effects take the value of power and apply it to the creature's toughness, and take the value of toughness and apply it to the creature's power.
So, basically layer 7c is applied long after layer 1.
On phasing:
They are all pretty cheap to copy, giving Lazav some nice cheap options.
Counters on creatures;
Arcbound Ravager
Steel Overseer
Chronomaton
Metallic Mimic
Phyrexian Devourer
Hedron Scrabbler
Pay off cards;
Hangarback Walker
Walking Ballista
Crystalline Crawler
Mindless Automaton - The discard can be good for binning creatures you want to combo with Lazav.
Etched Oracle
The idea is that once you get a +1/+1 counters on Lazav you can turn him into pay off cards. You need to be careful because a bunch of them are 0/0, hence the need for at least one +1/+1 before you look to use some of them.
But it's very nice to have a tool box of options during the course of the game.
Then with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed with his undying make the +1/+1 counters great.
The neat thing with Lazav, the Multifarious and Walking Ballista in your graveyard with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed you can use the +1/+1 undying counter to deal damage to Lazav himself (as he gets +1/+1 bonus from Mikaeus you need a means to kill him), sending him to the graveyard. Because you can activate Lazav to become the Walking Ballista for 0, means you can keep doing this infinitely and get infinite Surveil.
Let's say you play Laboratory Maniac and Hapless Researcher in your deck. You Surveil your whole deck, so no library left. Then spend 1 for Lazav to become the Hapless Researcher. Sacrifice him to draw a card, and with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed undying will trigger, bringing Lazav/Hapless Researcher back into play with with the draw ability still on the stack. Then respond by spending 3 to make Lazav the Laboratory Maniac and then the draw will resolve and you will win.
Triskelion as another backup plan, with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Fantastic idea! Changing Lazav to artifact allows him to benefit from artifact-related effect, that opens up doors!
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
The main reason I am trying to focus on artifacts is that I want to run both Academy Ruins and Volrath's Stronghold to control the top of deck. With that I can run Skill Borrower or control what my Mindshrieker mills. I have also thought of Deceiver of Form, because turning a handful of weenies into an army of Eater of Days is the kind of thing that amuses me. Unfortunately it clashes with my stax plan.
Another card I like is Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive because our support cards are all 1 power or toughness. Speaking of support, Dreamscape Artist is at home in this deck.
1 Lazav, the Multifarious
Creature
1 Mortivore
1 Consuming Aberration
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Invisible Stalker
1 Gudul Lurker
1 Wharf Infiltrator
1 Slither Blade
1 Virtus the Veiled
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1 Wonder
1 Slippery Scoundrel
1 Forgotten Creation
1 Corpse Connoisseur
1 Notion Thief
1 Phage the Untouchable
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Kefnet the Mindful
1 Archfiend of Depravity
1 Hunted Horror
1 Nyxathid
Enchantment
1 Mystic Remora
Land
1 Salt Marsh
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Vivid Creek
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Submerged Boneyard
14 Island
13 Swamp
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Heartstone
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Dimir Signet
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Bonehoard
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sol Ring
1 Mind Stone
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Mind's Eye
1 Steel Hellkite
Instant
1 Frantic Search
1 Countersquall
1 Aetherspouts
1 Dig Through Time
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Ancient Excavation
1 Pull from Tomorrow
1 Aetherize
1 Evacuation
1 Swan Song
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Memory Lapse
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Arcane Denial
1 Unwind
1 Counterspell
1 Negate
1 Careful Study
1 Buried Alive
1 Devastation Tide
1 Decree of Pain
Constructive criticism is much appreciated. The idea is no mld, no infinite combos and $100 budget
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Although I do love the idea of including Mikaeus, the Ballista, and a package of value creatures too. I think that there's got to be a set of creatures in Dimir colors that have fantastic static abilities that needs to be explored. That way Lazav is always a creature generating value at any stage of the game. Cards like Graveborn Muse, Consuming Aberration, or Dark Confidant come to mind.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born for creatures removal, can mitigate the non-untaping if turned into another creature, and can get +1/+1 counters.
A control theme does have the problem that it's very mana intensive. Turning Lazav into the 4 or more mana creatures is costly, so you wouldn't have much mana to back up with actual control spells.
Consecrated Sphinx and Sire of Stagnation are fine ways to load up your hand with spells, but is this the direction of a deck with Lazav? Maybe it does mean that opponents need double removal for any potential creature. You cast the real version, and then Lazav can copy it the next turn if opponents force its removal non-exiling it. So just loading up on powerful Dimir creatures could be a way to go, similar to The Mimeoplasm.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
This will be particular good with Training Grounds and/or Heartstone.
Phyrexian Vatmother
Razormane Masticore, Masticore, Molten-Tail Masticore
Serendib Djinn
Magus of the Abyss
Cumulative upkeeps can be avoided;
Survivor of the Unseen
Phyrexian Soulgorger
Vexing Sphinx - this card is just good for getting some creatures into graveyard off its ability anyway.
Flow of Maggots
You can in fact use Cumulative upkeeps with "age counters" as transferable resource.
So for example if you've used Flow of Maggots for it's evasion and you've also kept it's upkeep cost for say 3 turns and have 3 age counters on Lazav.
Then later on in the game this can be used with say Herald of Leshrac or Vexing Sphinx to get the bonuses.
These one you want to turn into the creature before your turn;
Braids, Conjurer Adept
Seizan, Perverter of Truth
Maralen of the Mornsong
Kami of the Crescent Moon
More +1/+1 counters;
Vebulid - will need a +1/+1 counter from another source first
Necroplasm - can change before end of turn once has the 3 +1/+1 counters. Good thing is that you can change it during the game if needing to remove creatures, and use other +1/+1 to get it past the natural 3 counters.
Khabál Ghoul
Chronozoa - Lazav will not have any counters, so you'll get the split straight away. Unfortunately needs to "die", so you want backup graveyard removal or reanimation, otherwise he'll remain there.
Forgotten Creation - fueling graveyard
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
I like the list of creatures with static abilities that you list there. Another card I'm leaning on including (because this Lazav deck would be semi-casual) is Visara the Dreadful. I can't think of any creatures with a similar creature-killing ability that cost less than Visara, but that would definitely be worth exploring.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I split out my coffee seeing this. Players have been using Mirror Gallery more anyway, so this would turn Lazav into a true ninja with shadow clones, even harder to remove than before.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
That just means that you get one free die trigger because any other tokens will enter with the time counters.
The legend rule kicks in on that split, so you'll only get one copy. It will have the 3 time counters on it, which means that every 3 turns you'll have them trigger which will give you a single surveil.
At this stage this isn't really doing much. I was thinking that Torpor Orb would stop the time counters on ETB, but unfortunately this would cause an actual infinite loop that can't be broken, so would end in a draw. You'd have the legend rule kick in and this would in turn keep creating new version of Lazav, and you have no way of stopping it.
However this train of thought did make me think of Wormfang Manta. You can setup extra turns with Lazav copying it, and some way to remove Lazav. You can actually let him go to the command zone, as Wormfang Manta say "leaves play". If you had infinite mana then you could get infinite turns. You'd probably need a sacrifice outlet as well however. That is a lot of moving parts.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Indeed! We're using Lazav to avoid enters battlefield penalties, so it makes sense to include the Orb to lock down everyone, and allow you to cast creatures-with-penalties without fear, in case Lzav got locked down.
Another door opened!
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Chemister's Insight is a new instant speed draw card you can use from graveyard. So if you have 7 mana available you could look to combo win this way.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
This wouldn't actually work, because the counters get put on Chronozoa as a replacement effect and not an ETB trigger. "This card enters play with three time counters on it" and not "When this card enters the battlefield put three time counters on it."
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
-Creatures-
Crypt Rats - Makes for a board wipe from the graveyard. Just spend your U on something indestructible or else after activating it to turn it asymmetrical.
Cryptoplasm - Eot before your own turn you can set up your commander to turn him into anything of value, even from your opponents' boards.
Disciple of Deceit - I was astonished, that this card didn't turn up yet! Just swing with Lazav, shift him into Disciple before your turn and go nuts.
Fatespinner - Not yet sure, if i'll run this, but it should be a very decent target for inbetween turns.
Gurmag Swiftwing - Nothing but a keyword spender. But with haste and evasion at CMC 2 he's a great enabler if you just had to recast your commander.
Hedron Crab - Great 1 Drop to set yourself up and work with on the cheap when you need to mill yourself later on.
King Macar, the Gold-Cursed - Not as yanky or cheap as above, but exiling a creature plus mana generation seems very decent, if you ask me.
Notion Thief - Good by himself, devastating with Jace's Archivist, Dark Deal, Whispering Madness or Windfall.
Silent Arbiter - Helps on the defense, works great if you attack with a multitude of creatures and combat triggers and then swap your commanders' shape to him.
Steel Hellkite - Rather mana intense, but with "artifact" breathing he can set you up for commander damage, plus he doubles as a solution for resolved artifacts, enchantments and others.
Stinkweed Imp - Playing him in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck i grew very fond of him. Dredge 5 is amazing and he comes with flying and pseudo deathtouch on top.
Withered Wretch - Instant speed graveyard disruption that's rather cheap to use.
-Noncreatures-
Cephalid Coliseum - We're naturally holding up mana with our commander, so holding up the mana that would ping us doesn't hurt too much - literally. Late game it can be the last straw you need.
Key to the City - Once again, allstar in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck. Being able to make the commander unblockable without spending mana (twice, to change back, y'know) is top notch, especially if that happens by discarding a possible finisher.
Soothsaying - Whenever i play a deck with U that's supposed to hold up mana i love including this card to rearrange my top deck with unused mana before my turn.
Unfulfilled Desires - I've never seen this card before my research, but darn, it's good!
Forbid - I favorably run it in decks with insane amount of card draw, but since this deck wants to discard every now and then anyways...
Tolarian Winds - It's a wheel. Instant speed. 2 mana. Yikes!
I could certainly get behind Key to the City. Always good to have another non-Lazav option for unblock. I'd also suggest Breathstealer's Crypt to add control as well as discarding creatures in one.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs