I've been on the hunt for a Rakdos general that fits me for a while and unfortunately I don't really care for any of them. I'm hoping someone can show me a truly powerful option that perhaps I have overlooked or underestimated.
1. I basically just play casually these days meanimg with budget lists, no infinite combos and no mass land destruction. So don't suggest a decklist that needs something beyond those limitations.
2. It has to be a true win condition. Not a pseudo win condition like "it draws you so many cards it basically wins you the game". Imo, a win con is something like: bashes face for massive damage, deals direct damage/life loss, cheats out creatures or makes tokens.
3. I want something that has a clear architype with enough support to build a solid list. Tribal, Hellbent, Voltron etc. I don't want a general that's too open ended with no clear theme like Olivia Voldaren. I see people go vampire tribal with her all the time but it's not clear that Vampires is the best way to go with her. You could go voltron, you could go control goodstuff, it's not like Edgar where you really have no choice in the matter.
4. I don't want a weak general. I know I'm playing casually but that doesn't mean I want a really low impact general like Wort, Boggart Auntie.
I’d probably just wait until Ravnica Three-For-All comes out in a month or two.
I was thinking that too but I found out that the first set is Salesnya, Golgari, Izzet, Dimir and Boros. Rakdos cards won't show up until the set afterwards and I'm too impatient lol.
Is Alesha better than Grenzo for whiteless 2power goodstuff? Grenzo is what I'm currently thinking of trying again. Olivia and scorpion aren't really wincons. She discards which sets up for the real wincon and Scorpion kills/draws cards.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Dragonlord Kolaghan is an oddball but giving your entire squad haste and being a sizeable flying hastey beater herself lends her to be a great aggro commander.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Dragonlord Kolaghan is an oddball but giving your entire squad haste and being a sizeable flying hastey beater herself lends her to be a great aggro commander.
I use her my dragon deck. Sure her special ability is meaningless in commander. But her basic ability makes up for it.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Big beater, makes other beaters cheaper. Has flying. Does Rakdos themes well, or can be super tuned with Eldrazi.
Super fun, would kill with again!
Second.
Also budget and combos are not mutually exclusive.
I know they aren't. Our banning of infinite combos has nothing to do with playing on a budget and everything to do with making casual play for newcomers more enjoyable.
I don't really consider Rakdos to be a win con, at least not outside a 6/6 body anyway. Imo he's more of ramp card that allows you to play your decks real win-cons (eldrazi) for dirt cheap. Having said that, he's one of the few Rakdos commanders I haven't tried yet so I probably should just to be certain I don't like him. If nothing else I absolutely adore the art.
Dragonlord Kolaghan is an oddball but giving your entire squad haste and being a sizeable flying hastey beater herself lends her to be a great aggro commander.
I use her my dragon deck. Sure her special ability is meaningless in commander. But her basic ability makes up for it.
BR dragons sound fun and has peaked my interest. Does Greenless Jund have enough support to build a dragon tribal deck? Why wouldn't you use the other Kolaghan, the Storms fury or Bladewing the Risen for Dragon tribal? Of it's just for the haste, would Garna, the Bloodflame be better?
I've ran Rakdos Dragons before, and it has more than enough support. I actually used Olivia, Mobilized for War as the commander as a way to have some early presence and to fill the graveyard, as the deck employed a two-pronged attack system. Casting normal dragons and stocking the grave to give them haste, and then reanimate those dragons to get cheap threats. Balthor, the Defiled and Rise of the Dark Realms provided me with two massive haymakers which usually won me the game if Dragon Tempest was on the field or Scourge of Valkas was involved.
Another reason why I didn't run Dragonlord Kolaghan or Bladewing the Risen as the commander was exactly that - they were high importance targets for Dragonstorm, being able to tutor them up that way and not be limited by hardcasting them from the command zone helped tremendously.
All in all, my deck ran 15 dragons, which I found to be the sweet spot for the build to work.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Dragonlord Kolaghan is an oddball but giving your entire squad haste and being a sizeable flying hastey beater herself lends her to be a great aggro commander.
I use her my dragon deck. Sure her special ability is meaningless in commander. But her basic ability makes up for it.
BR dragons sound fun and has peaked my interest. Does Greenless Jund have enough support to build a dragon tribal deck? Why wouldn't you use the other Kolaghan, the Storms fury or Bladewing the Risen for Dragon tribal? Of it's just for the haste, would Garna, the Bloodflame be better?
Using Rakdos, Lord of Riots, I would say yes. Run a few burn spells to get a little bit of damage in to make Rakdos castable, then play in your second main phase.
I built the deck for a newbie to play and it got scary fast.
Make sure you use cost reducers where you can (Urza's Incubator, Fire Diamond, maybe that goblin dude that reduces the cost for Dragons), and plenty of draw to get to your dragons.
Lots of love for Rakdos. I'll have to give him a shot.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Grenzo, Dungeon Warden at all. I stated designing a decklist where you will need to cast him to have 4 power every time due to the ammount of 3 and 4 power creatures but it looks kinda promising.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
Big beater, makes other beaters cheaper. Has flying. Does Rakdos themes well, or can be super tuned with Eldrazi.
Super fun, would kill with again!
Second.
Also budget and combos are not mutually exclusive.
I know they aren't. Our banning of infinite combos has nothing to do with playing on a budget and everything to do with making casual play for newcomers more enjoyable.
I don't really consider Rakdos to be a win con, at least not outside a 6/6 body anyway. Imo he's more of ramp card that allows you to play your decks real win-cons (eldrazi) for dirt cheap. Having said that, he's one of the few Rakdos commanders I haven't tried yet so I probably should just to be certain I don't like him. If nothing else I absolutely adore the art.
Dragonlord Kolaghan is an oddball but giving your entire squad haste and being a sizeable flying hastey beater herself lends her to be a great aggro commander.
I use her my dragon deck. Sure her special ability is meaningless in commander. But her basic ability makes up for it.
BR dragons sound fun and has peaked my interest. Does Greenless Jund have enough support to build a dragon tribal deck? Why wouldn't you use the other Kolaghan, the Storms fury or Bladewing the Risen for Dragon tribal? Of it's just for the haste, would Garna, the Bloodflame be better?
BR dragons is very easy to do. I HOWEVER would not do so. If you are going to do BR dragons go jund and thus you have access to atafka for double strike. Your general (karrthus) can take control of all dragons (and if your meta is like mine. Arcades and Nicole bolas are running rampant.)
If you are dead set on going BR, Kolaghan offers haste to all creature you control. Not Just dragons. (And he is a 6/5 beater with flying)
Rakdos, Lord of Riots: Hey, how about turning a Bolt into "Creatures you cast cost 3 less to cast this turn."? He can also swing for six with flying. You should be able to cast BBRR very easily.
Tymaret, the Murder King: He's cheap, can be recurred from the graveyard, and he can shock. Could be a possibility for Aristocrats. Lyzolda, the Blood Witch is similar, but replaces self-recursion with card draw.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I may work on a Rakdos list too but I was wondering what you guys thought of this Grenzo list I came up with. Grenzo needs to be cast with 2+ counters on him due to the ammount of 3/4 power creatures in the deck. Do you guys think it looks fun/ effective?
I run a (what i think is) sweet suicide rakdos deck that uses Rakdos as the board wipe. Sure, i might lose like 4 permanents, but my opponent is losing like 10+, every time. Sometimes, i don't end up casting rakdos, but when he comes in, he wrecks house!
Also, its amazing watching the table poop their pants for doing things like sacrificing a abhorrent overlord for rakdos with mass hysteria in play. Or hey, how about a kicked savage beating? each individual hit from rakdos wipes permanents, and you've got a massive 7/6 in play.
One tip to folks who wanna build a rakdos deck. Remember the motto of rakdos - Burn. Bleed. Enjoy.
when you consider a card to put in the deck.. will it cause chaos? will it make someone (even yourself) bleed? if i have that card in hand, would i miracle a reforge the soul? Does the card have extra costs like paying life, discarding cards, sacrificing creatures or other permanents? RB has a lot of good cards for a 'suicide' tactic - bleed the table, unleash chaos, and even if you don't end up on top, it was hilarious all the way!
I'd advise you to play a grenzo list that plays him on +1 rather than +2. In my experiance the 1 mana can be crucial. Also:
1) Mad Auntie + Tel-Jilad Stylus .- Someone targets grenzo with removal? Activate him, tuck him, he comes back, and is online as a 3/3 again!
2) your four mana cards are: Mindslicer - you will have one of the biggest hands, due to only activating grenzo all the time. So... no. Ashenmoor Liege - while this +2's grenzo, it hardly does anything else. Flayer of the Hatebound is quite cool. Fanatic of Mogis is just a worse gary, since he doesn't gain you any life. Magus of the Coffersa strict nope with your landbase Neheb, the Eternal is interesting as long as you stick to the "attack" plan. Corpse Augur - you won't need to draw cards. Angrath's Marauders while nice not neccecary
That leaves us with 2 good creatures with a power of 4, wich leads me to still advice you to play grenzo for 3 most of the times. Also, necrotic ooze
Try to rely less on attacks with grenzo. Put out everything that just pumps itself or pumps anything on attacks
Try to have more creatures with a imideade impact and reduce the ammount of abilitys that requires you to spend mana to activate them. You want all your mana in grenzo! Viashino Heretic - Yes, you could destroy an artifact, but you could activate grenzo for the same cost
Also: You realy, realy want a Ashnod's altar and a goblin sharpshooter as well as workshorse. Also, have at least one card that says "pay X mana, put a card from your GY on the bottom of your library"
As for lands: You need a copy of this commander land (don't get the name atm) that spells "1, tap, add one mana of any color to your pool, if required to cast your commander he gets +1+1 counters equal to the ammount cast this game" (Colorfixing, and you want to +1 your commander anyways, so it doesn't increase his cost while making him bigger later on)
Get rid of things that don't support your gameplan like sword of the animist and eidolon of the great reveal - dead drops if grenzo's ability hits them!
Number 1 priority is mana. Get more manadorks and rocks! Especialy on the dork side you have more myr and milikins / manakins to go. They have the advantage of not beeing dead drops if hit by grenzo's ability
Also play the temple of whatevery, BR Scry 1, and get rid of terramorphic expanse, you are playing 2 color, 1) you don't want a deck shuffling effect if you stacked the bottom of your library, 2) you could play all basics and be fine
On that note get rid of : tresserhorn sinks spinerock knoll bloodfell caves rakdos guildgate vivid crag akoum refuge evolving wilds vivid marsh and cinder barrens. Add a command tower if you want to
Oh wow, thanks so much for all the time and effort responding here, it was very helpful!
I have just a few thoughts about your comments if you don't mind.
Mindslicer - my thought process here is that because we don't need a hand as we just throw all our mana at Grenzo anyway, its effectively screwing all our opponents waaay harder than it's screwing us.
Ashenmore Liege - Does what you were talking about in your first point with Mad auntie but also pumps all my other dudes too.
Sword of the Animist supports my gameplan by giving me lots of mana. It's basically a super mana rock. Also thins the deck
Eidolon of the Great Revel - I'm wondering if you didn't realize that this is a creature too, not just an enchantment.
It's not a dead drop. Idk why the mtgs decklists put enchantment creatures under the enchantment category instead of the creature category. They do that same with artifact creatures and it makes no sense to me.
Zealous/Kiki - like I mentioned in the op, no infinite combos allowed. It would be sweet though!
But thanks again for the input, I'll make a lot of the changes you suggested!
I run a (what i think is) sweet suicide rakdos deck that uses Rakdos as the board wipe. Sure, i might lose like 4 permanents, but my opponent is losing like 10+, every time. Sometimes, i don't end up casting rakdos, but when he comes in, he wrecks house!
Also, its amazing watching the table poop their pants for doing things like sacrificing a abhorrent overlord for rakdos with mass hysteria in play. Or hey, how about a kicked savage beating? each individual hit from rakdos wipes permanents, and you've got a massive 7/6 in play.
One tip to folks who wanna build a rakdos deck. Remember the motto of rakdos - Burn. Bleed. Enjoy.
when you consider a card to put in the deck.. will it cause chaos? will it make someone (even yourself) bleed? if i have that card in hand, would i miracle a reforge the soul? Does the card have extra costs like paying life, discarding cards, sacrificing creatures or other permanents? RB has a lot of good cards for a 'suicide' tactic - bleed the table, unleash chaos, and even if you don't end up on top, it was hilarious all the way!
Ooh Demon tribal sounds kind of awesome. Do u have a list?
If you like a high creature count and a focus on creatures with 2 or less power (and using all your mana every turn), check out my Grenzo list. Removing the infinite combo means removing like 5 cards; there are more than enough creatures that can fill those slots. It's really fun to play.
If you like a high creature count and a focus on creatures with 2 or less power (and using all your mana every turn), check out my Grenzo list. Removing the infinite combo means removing like 5 cards; there are more than enough creatures that can fill those slots. It's really fun to play.
Ok thanks for the list. I'll check it out. I haven't tested it out yet so I don't really know what I'm talking about but there seems to be just so many good 3 power things to use for only making him cost 3 which is still super cheap. Idk if it's worth cutting them just to make him cost 1 less. I'm still not entirely convinced I should cut out the 4 drops but T0kata is seriously making me think about it.
Do you believe your deck can win without the infinite combo's? What are your non combo win-cons, just swinging with an army of 2 power creatures?
I run a (what i think is) sweet suicide rakdos deck that uses Rakdos as the board wipe. Sure, i might lose like 4 permanents, but my opponent is losing like 10+, every time. Sometimes, i don't end up casting rakdos, but when he comes in, he wrecks house!
You are counting lands in your 'non-demon perms' right? Seems unlikely to cast him without more than 8 perms.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
So here is my opinion, based off of a strong but not "cedh" level group. As a massive rakdos fan I've tried almost every black+red legend, including barktooth warbeard and rohgahh of kher keep. I've even tried Boris Devilboon in a a paradox engine deck. From all my experiance there has always been one major fact that from all commander options; there are none that are pushed or over-the-top powerful enough to compete with what other color combinations have.
This is not to dissuade anyone away from rakdos, just to educate how poor the color combination is. Currently I have 5 active rakdos decks; 2 storm, 1 reanimator, 1 combo, and 1 voltron soon to be xantcha combo. All of these decks could be far stronger if only I'd just change the color combination, but my fanaticism for rakdos has me loyal.
Now some of the black+red legendary creatures are very strong, but they all easily fail to any common answer in this format, by either not being impactful enough, costing too much, or having zero protection (which is on theme I guess).
The most impactful legendary in these colors is likely rakdos the defiler, which is only "ok" in 1v1 commander. He requires a deck full of duress, thoughtseize, and psychotic fury effects before you can even consider attacking with him. Because of his suicidal drawback he is basically stuffed in the 99 of decks that can abuse him by skipping his attack trigger (alesha). In multiplayer, he either king-makes or you have a 6cmc flying defender. There are gimmicks but nothing consistent or strong.
IMO the second most impactful commander in these colors would be kaervek the merciless. He can be very game warping, but he is a 7cmc commander in terrible ramp colors. Displaying him in the command zone is the issue, so by the time you cast your 7-mana commander the net outcome is typically a gut shot from everyone saving up their path to exile/swords to plowshares/rapid hybridization/pongify. Then you get to pay 9 mana for another possible gut shot. Sure you can try to play political games, but with kaervek it just won't work. Not against smart opponents.
There are many lower cmc commanders that all appear strong, but they don't compete with what other color combinations offer. Some are durable like mogis, god of slaughter or the scorpion god, but a small punishment effects or a non-evasive beater won't get too far without a pile of support. And surely your support won't get blown out.
There are now two infinite mana win-con commanders in lyzolda, the blood with and xantcha, sleeper agent. I'm not sure if these fall in the original posters category as indirect win-con, but they exist. But infinite mana generation is a little awkward in this color combination. You can tutor the parts but you can hardly protect them. Lyzolda basically requires worldgorger dragon (this is my current rakdos combo deck). Any xantcha chatter is speculative at the early point in her life, but so far, in my group, she seems to be removal bate.
As a massive rakdos fan, it's rough to say, but if you've gone over every option for a legendary rakdos general, and none of them really stand out to you as a desirable build-around, then it's best to wait till one does. It's not easy to recommend any specific one.
Please just keep in mind that my group is full of fairly strong opponents. My fanaticism for the guild has me stuck on the color combination. I know 5x of my decks would have a much higher win% if I just changed the commander to a non-rakdos color legendary. In a less competitive area then rakdos does offer tutors, wheels, removal, and good reanimator cards. It's very easy to make a strong good-stuff rakdos deck. Being that the original poster wanted a non-good stuff suggestion then I'd have to suggest probably Olivia voldaren. With edgar markov being the ideal vamp commander, if you can't afford the 3-color manabase or have a dislike of white, then Olivia vamps can be fun. But Olivia voldaren is also a very good control finisher for a big-mana style of deck. She is also a 4cmc flying commander, which makes for a good voltron attacker since she is very easy to ramp out on turn-3 with the high number of 2-cmc mana rocks from turn-2.
Kaervek the Merciless is a great general. Just run a bunch of ramp, but black isn't the worst color for ramp.
Unfortunately, when I made the punisher deck, it was a lot cheaper than I imagine it is now for the essential cards, but I'm sure you can pick up 2nd tier punisher cards and still have a fun time.
So here is my opinion, based off of a strong but not "cedh" level group. As a massive rakdos fan I've tried almost every black+red legend, including barktooth warbeard and rohgahh of kher keep. I've even tried Boris Devilboon in a a paradox engine deck. From all my experiance there has always been one major fact that from all commander options; there are none that are pushed or over-the-top powerful enough to compete with what other color combinations have.
This is not to dissuade anyone away from rakdos, just to educate how poor the color combination is. Currently I have 5 active rakdos decks; 2 storm, 1 reanimator, 1 combo, and 1 voltron soon to be xantcha combo. All of these decks could be far stronger if only I'd just change the color combination, but my fanaticism for rakdos has me loyal.
Now some of the black+red legendary creatures are very strong, but they all easily fail to any common answer in this format, by either not being impactful enough, costing too much, or having zero protection (which is on theme I guess).
The most impactful legendary in these colors is likely rakdos the defiler, which is only "ok" in 1v1 commander. He requires a deck full of duress, thoughtseize, and psychotic fury effects before you can even consider attacking with him. Because of his suicidal drawback he is basically stuffed in the 99 of decks that can abuse him by skipping his attack trigger (alesha). In multiplayer, he either king-makes or you have a 6cmc flying defender. There are gimmicks but nothing consistent or strong.
IMO the second most impactful commander in these colors would be kaervek the merciless. He can be very game warping, but he is a 7cmc commander in terrible ramp colors. Displaying him in the command zone is the issue, so by the time you cast your 7-mana commander the net outcome is typically a gut shot from everyone saving up their path to exile/swords to plowshares/rapid hybridization/pongify. Then you get to pay 9 mana for another possible gut shot. Sure you can try to play political games, but with kaervek it just won't work. Not against smart opponents.
There are many lower cmc commanders that all appear strong, but they don't compete with what other color combinations offer. Some are durable like mogis, god of slaughter or the scorpion god, but a small punishment effects or a non-evasive beater won't get too far without a pile of support. And surely your support won't get blown out.
There are now two infinite mana win-con commanders in lyzolda, the blood with and xantcha, sleeper agent. I'm not sure if these fall in the original posters category as indirect win-con, but they exist. But infinite mana generation is a little awkward in this color combination. You can tutor the parts but you can hardly protect them. Lyzolda basically requires worldgorger dragon (this is my current rakdos combo deck). Any xantcha chatter is speculative at the early point in her life, but so far, in my group, she seems to be removal bate.
As a massive rakdos fan, it's rough to say, but if you've gone over every option for a legendary rakdos general, and none of them really stand out to you as a desirable build-around, then it's best to wait till one does. It's not easy to recommend any specific one.
Please just keep in mind that my group is full of fairly strong opponents. My fanaticism for the guild has me stuck on the color combination. I know 5x of my decks would have a much higher win% if I just changed the commander to a non-rakdos color legendary. In a less competitive area then rakdos does offer tutors, wheels, removal, and good reanimator cards. It's very easy to make a strong good-stuff rakdos deck. Being that the original poster wanted a non-good stuff suggestion then I'd have to suggest probably Olivia voldaren. With edgar markov being the ideal vamp commander, if you can't afford the 3-color manabase or have a dislike of white, then Olivia vamps can be fun. But Olivia voldaren is also a very good control finisher for a big-mana style of deck. She is also a 4cmc flying commander, which makes for a good voltron attacker since she is very easy to ramp out on turn-3 with the high number of 2-cmc mana rocks from turn-2.
So yea, try Olivia
You did a good job summarizing the problem, I'm right there with you being a huge Rakdos fan but none really stand out as a really great commander. I think I've pretty much landed on trying Grenzo again for my next Rakdos deck. I tried him waaay back but I'm hoping all the newer cards that have come out since will give him the improvements I felt he needed before. Also before I designed the deck around x=0. I'm curious to see how my newer list where x=2 will perform.
Hopefully Ravnoca will give us a real power house that stands out from the crowd of decent but not great options.
1. I basically just play casually these days meanimg with budget lists, no infinite combos and no mass land destruction. So don't suggest a decklist that needs something beyond those limitations.
2. It has to be a true win condition. Not a pseudo win condition like "it draws you so many cards it basically wins you the game". Imo, a win con is something like: bashes face for massive damage, deals direct damage/life loss, cheats out creatures or makes tokens.
3. I want something that has a clear architype with enough support to build a solid list. Tribal, Hellbent, Voltron etc. I don't want a general that's too open ended with no clear theme like Olivia Voldaren. I see people go vampire tribal with her all the time but it's not clear that Vampires is the best way to go with her. You could go voltron, you could go control goodstuff, it's not like Edgar where you really have no choice in the matter.
4. I don't want a weak general. I know I'm playing casually but that doesn't mean I want a really low impact general like Wort, Boggart Auntie.
Thoughts?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Alesha is an option for weenies.
The Scorpion God is -1/-1 centric.
I’d probably just wait until Ravnica Three-For-All comes out in a month or two.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I was thinking that too but I found out that the first set is Salesnya, Golgari, Izzet, Dimir and Boros. Rakdos cards won't show up until the set afterwards and I'm too impatient lol.
Is Alesha better than Grenzo for whiteless 2power goodstuff? Grenzo is what I'm currently thinking of trying again. Olivia and scorpion aren't really wincons. She discards which sets up for the real wincon and Scorpion kills/draws cards.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Big beater, makes other beaters cheaper. Has flying. Does Rakdos themes well, or can be super tuned with Eldrazi.
Super fun, would kill with again!
Second.
Also budget and combos are not mutually exclusive.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I don't really consider Rakdos to be a win con, at least not outside a 6/6 body anyway. Imo he's more of ramp card that allows you to play your decks real win-cons (eldrazi) for dirt cheap. Having said that, he's one of the few Rakdos commanders I haven't tried yet so I probably should just to be certain I don't like him. If nothing else I absolutely adore the art.
Is he actually any good? I wrote him off as pretty meh. Does this guy actually stand a chance against really scary decks like Prossh or Scarab God?
BR dragons sound fun and has peaked my interest. Does Greenless Jund have enough support to build a dragon tribal deck? Why wouldn't you use the other Kolaghan, the Storms fury or Bladewing the Risen for Dragon tribal? Of it's just for the haste, would Garna, the Bloodflame be better?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
The other win haymaker came from Dragonstorm. If I could cast it with 3 spells prior it was gg between Scourge of Valkas, Utvara Hellkite, Scourge of the Throne and Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury. Dragonlord Kolaghan was also an option to pull up in order to give haste if Dragon Tempest or Olivia weren't present, and Bladewing the Risen was a target in case one of the win cards was in the graveyard.
Another reason why I didn't run Dragonlord Kolaghan or Bladewing the Risen as the commander was exactly that - they were high importance targets for Dragonstorm, being able to tutor them up that way and not be limited by hardcasting them from the command zone helped tremendously.
All in all, my deck ran 15 dragons, which I found to be the sweet spot for the build to work.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Using Rakdos, Lord of Riots, I would say yes. Run a few burn spells to get a little bit of damage in to make Rakdos castable, then play in your second main phase.
I built the deck for a newbie to play and it got scary fast.
Make sure you use cost reducers where you can (Urza's Incubator, Fire Diamond, maybe that goblin dude that reduces the cost for Dragons), and plenty of draw to get to your dragons.
This is the list I built.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Grenzo, Dungeon Warden at all. I stated designing a decklist where you will need to cast him to have 4 power every time due to the ammount of 3 and 4 power creatures but it looks kinda promising.
I wasn't overly impressed with her but perhaps I was wrong? Any notible synergies that you think are cool?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
If you are dead set on going BR, Kolaghan offers haste to all creature you control. Not Just dragons. (And he is a 6/5 beater with flying)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Rakdos, Lord of Riots: Hey, how about turning a Bolt into "Creatures you cast cost 3 less to cast this turn."? He can also swing for six with flying. You should be able to cast BBRR very easily.
Tymaret, the Murder King: He's cheap, can be recurred from the graveyard, and he can shock. Could be a possibility for Aristocrats. Lyzolda, the Blood Witch is similar, but replaces self-recursion with card draw.
On phasing:
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
Creature
1 Kolaghan Forerunners
1 Battle Squadron
1 Dauthi Trapper
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Crypt Rats
1 Royal Assassin
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Dragonmaster Outcast
1 Balthor the Defiled
1 Filth
1 Stronghold Rats
1 Cunning Lethemancer
1 Mindclaw Shaman
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Pontiff of Blight
1 Withered Wretch
1 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Ravenous Chupacabra
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Ogre Slumlord
1 Deathbringer Thoctar
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Sin Prodder
1 Magus of the Will
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Garna, the Bloodflame
1 Mindslicer
1 Ashenmoor Liege
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Fanatic of Mogis
1 Neheb, the Eternal
1 Angrath's Marauders
1 Archetype of Finality
1 Eidolon of the Great Revel
Land
1 Tresserhorn Sinks
1 Drownyard Temple
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Bloodfell Caves
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Vivid Crag
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Opal Palace
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Zhalfirin Void
1 Cinder Barrens
11 Mountain
12 Swamp
Artifact
1 Thran Turbine
1 Tel-Jilad Stylus
1 Heartstone
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Desecrated Tomb
1 Junktroller
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Hedron Crawler
1 Millikin
1 Iron Myr
1 Leaden Myr
1 Plague Myr
1 Manakin
1 Burnished Hart
1 Duplicant
1 Palladium Myr
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Epitaph Golem
1 Cut // Ribbons
Comments/criticisms are encouraged
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I run a (what i think is) sweet suicide rakdos deck that uses Rakdos as the board wipe. Sure, i might lose like 4 permanents, but my opponent is losing like 10+, every time. Sometimes, i don't end up casting rakdos, but when he comes in, he wrecks house!
Also, its amazing watching the table poop their pants for doing things like sacrificing a abhorrent overlord for rakdos with mass hysteria in play. Or hey, how about a kicked savage beating? each individual hit from rakdos wipes permanents, and you've got a massive 7/6 in play.
One tip to folks who wanna build a rakdos deck. Remember the motto of rakdos - Burn. Bleed. Enjoy.
when you consider a card to put in the deck.. will it cause chaos? will it make someone (even yourself) bleed? if i have that card in hand, would i miracle a reforge the soul? Does the card have extra costs like paying life, discarding cards, sacrificing creatures or other permanents? RB has a lot of good cards for a 'suicide' tactic - bleed the table, unleash chaos, and even if you don't end up on top, it was hilarious all the way!
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
I have just a few thoughts about your comments if you don't mind.
Mindslicer - my thought process here is that because we don't need a hand as we just throw all our mana at Grenzo anyway, its effectively screwing all our opponents waaay harder than it's screwing us.
Ashenmore Liege - Does what you were talking about in your first point with Mad auntie but also pumps all my other dudes too.
Sword of the Animist supports my gameplan by giving me lots of mana. It's basically a super mana rock. Also thins the deck
Eidolon of the Great Revel - I'm wondering if you didn't realize that this is a creature too, not just an enchantment.
It's not a dead drop. Idk why the mtgs decklists put enchantment creatures under the enchantment category instead of the creature category. They do that same with artifact creatures and it makes no sense to me.
Zealous/Kiki - like I mentioned in the op, no infinite combos allowed. It would be sweet though!
But thanks again for the input, I'll make a lot of the changes you suggested!
Ooh Demon tribal sounds kind of awesome. Do u have a list?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Check out my competitive Ezuri, Claw of Progress primer!
Do you believe your deck can win without the infinite combo's? What are your non combo win-cons, just swinging with an army of 2 power creatures?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
This is not to dissuade anyone away from rakdos, just to educate how poor the color combination is. Currently I have 5 active rakdos decks; 2 storm, 1 reanimator, 1 combo, and 1 voltron soon to be xantcha combo. All of these decks could be far stronger if only I'd just change the color combination, but my fanaticism for rakdos has me loyal.
Now some of the black+red legendary creatures are very strong, but they all easily fail to any common answer in this format, by either not being impactful enough, costing too much, or having zero protection (which is on theme I guess).
The most impactful legendary in these colors is likely rakdos the defiler, which is only "ok" in 1v1 commander. He requires a deck full of duress,
thoughtseize, and psychotic fury effects before you can even consider attacking with him. Because of his suicidal drawback he is basically stuffed in the 99 of decks that can abuse him by skipping his attack trigger (alesha). In multiplayer, he either king-makes or you have a 6cmc flying defender. There are gimmicks but nothing consistent or strong.
IMO the second most impactful commander in these colors would be kaervek the merciless. He can be very game warping, but he is a 7cmc commander in terrible ramp colors. Displaying him in the command zone is the issue, so by the time you cast your 7-mana commander the net outcome is typically a gut shot from everyone saving up their path to exile/swords to plowshares/rapid hybridization/pongify. Then you get to pay 9 mana for another possible gut shot. Sure you can try to play political games, but with kaervek it just won't work. Not against smart opponents.
There are many lower cmc commanders that all appear strong, but they don't compete with what other color combinations offer. Some are durable like mogis, god of slaughter or the scorpion god, but a small punishment effects or a non-evasive beater won't get too far without a pile of support. And surely your support won't get blown out.
There are now two infinite mana win-con commanders in lyzolda, the blood with and xantcha, sleeper agent. I'm not sure if these fall in the original posters category as indirect win-con, but they exist. But infinite mana generation is a little awkward in this color combination. You can tutor the parts but you can hardly protect them. Lyzolda basically requires worldgorger dragon (this is my current rakdos combo deck). Any xantcha chatter is speculative at the early point in her life, but so far, in my group, she seems to be removal bate.
As a massive rakdos fan, it's rough to say, but if you've gone over every option for a legendary rakdos general, and none of them really stand out to you as a desirable build-around, then it's best to wait till one does. It's not easy to recommend any specific one.
Please just keep in mind that my group is full of fairly strong opponents. My fanaticism for the guild has me stuck on the color combination. I know 5x of my decks would have a much higher win% if I just changed the commander to a non-rakdos color legendary. In a less competitive area then rakdos does offer tutors, wheels, removal, and good reanimator cards. It's very easy to make a strong good-stuff rakdos deck. Being that the original poster wanted a non-good stuff suggestion then I'd have to suggest probably Olivia voldaren. With edgar markov being the ideal vamp commander, if you can't afford the 3-color manabase or have a dislike of white, then Olivia vamps can be fun. But Olivia voldaren is also a very good control finisher for a big-mana style of deck. She is also a 4cmc flying commander, which makes for a good voltron attacker since she is very easy to ramp out on turn-3 with the high number of 2-cmc mana rocks from turn-2.
So yea, try Olivia
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Unfortunately, when I made the punisher deck, it was a lot cheaper than I imagine it is now for the essential cards, but I'm sure you can pick up 2nd tier punisher cards and still have a fun time.
Or, again with the punisher idea, go with Xantcha, Sleeper Agent
Hopefully Ravnoca will give us a real power house that stands out from the crowd of decent but not great options.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)