so my question is this in commander say 4ppl my opponent attacks with kozilect the butcher for example and i flash in portal mage to redirect the attack. my question is this in portal mage text says triggers dont triger but anouther one says the creater would attack the player as it originaly was ect.
8/25/2017 You may cast Portal Mage outside of a declare attackers step. If Portal Mage enters the battlefield outside of a declare attackers step, its ability simply doesn’t trigger.
8/25/2017 Reselecting which player or planeswalker a creature is attacking ignores all requirements, restrictions, and costs associated with attacking.
8/25/2017 Reselecting which player or planeswalker a creature is attacking doesn’t cause “whenever this creature attacks” abilities to trigger. Notably, the Curses in this set (such as Curse of Vitality) won’t trigger while Portal Mage’s ability is resolving.
8/25/2017 If you reselect which player or planeswalker an attacking creature is attacking, that creature is still considered to have attacked the player or planeswalker as declared, but it is now attacking the new player or planeswalker.
8/25/2017 If an ability targets something controlled by the “defending player” of an attacking creature and the defending player for that creature changes before that ability resolves, the ability won’t resolve because its target has become illegal.
so my question say i redirected it would me and the guy i redirected at both be effected by its anniolate ability?.
No, the trigger only applies once, when Kozilek is declared as an attacker. Redirecting him with Portal Mage won't cause the new player to also get Annihilated.
No. As the rules you quoted say, anything that triggers when something is declared as an attacker, such as Annihilator, will not trigger again when the player is re-selected. The original player it attacked still has to deal with the trigger and sac 4 permanents.See Comment #8. I was thinking Annihilator had already resolved and the OP was asking if it would trigger again. Flashing it before the trigger resolves would work the way the OP wants.
EDIT: Also, nothing about Annihilator targets. There are no targets here which actually would change the functionality of the Annihilator trigger.
If you're asking whether Portal Mage would redirect Kozilek's annihilator trigger to the new defending player, then yes. It would.
If you used Portal Mage against Colossal Whale, its ability would fizzle because it specifies "target creature defending player controls", but the creature targeted no longer belongs to the defending player (because Portal Mage changed who the defending player is). This is like how if I were to Go For The Throat your creature, the spell would fizzle if you made that creature an artifact creature in response. This is what that last ruling you cited is trying to say.
Conversely, Kozilek's ability doesn't target. It causes the defending player to sacrifice four permanents. The defending player has changed by the time the ability resolves, but that doesn't matter; there are no targets that have been selected and so the ability still resolves and still affects the (new) defending player.
oh ok ty. what about portal mage rule were attacking creature ability triggers wont trigger so say i redirect creature when they deal damage to player draw card that not happen? for example i mean.
If a redirected Scroll Thief hits a new player, its controller will still draw a card.
The only thing that Portal Mage stops is abilities that specifically read like this: "When/Whenever (this creature)/a creature attacks, X target Y that defending player controls." There needs to 1) be a target (with the actual word 'target'), and 2) be a stipulation that the target is/is controlled by the defending player.
More examples... Goblin Grappler - Provoke is an ability that targets a creature the defending player controls. If you redirect a goblin grappler with portal mage, then it doesn't get to provoke any of the new defending player's creatures, and the previous defending player's creature that was targeted doesn't even get to untap.
Lorthos, the Tidemaker - Lorthos's ability triggers when it attacks, but it doesn't need to target the defending player's permanents. Redirecting it with portal mage doesn't change the targets of Lorthos's ability; those permanents will still be tapped. All portal mage will accomplish here is maybe avoiding the 8 damage that Lorthos would deal. It has already attacked, so changing what it is attacking won't cause its ability to trigger again either.
Thieving Magpie - This ability doesn't trigger when the magpie attacks, but rather when it deals damage. This is an important difference in a lot of cases, not only when it comes to portal mage. In portal mage's case, the magpie will be redirected but will still draw its controller a card if it hits the new defending player. Of course, you could always steer it into a player with a flying blocker that can kill the magpie, so it's still not a terrible idea to do so.
Curse of Predation - a creature which attacks enchanted player (that is, the moment a creature is announced as an attacker toward that player) gets a counter. This card does not have the word 'target' or 'targets' on it, so even if the creature is then redirected it will still get the counter.
If you're asking whether Portal Mage would redirect Kozilek's annihilator trigger to the new defending player, then yes. It would.
If you used Portal Mage against Colossal Whale, its ability would fizzle because it specifies "target creature defending player controls", but the creature targeted no longer belongs to the defending player (because Portal Mage changed who the defending player is). This is like how if I were to Go For The Throat your creature, the spell would fizzle if you made that creature an artifact creature in response. This is what that last ruling you cited is trying to say.
Conversely, Kozilek's ability doesn't target. It causes the defending player to sacrifice four permanents. The defending player has changed by the time the ability resolves, but that doesn't matter; there are no targets that have been selected and so the ability still resolves and still affects the (new) defending player.
This would have been my understanding but others in the thread seem to disagree? I'm still a bit confused myself.
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8/25/2017 You may cast Portal Mage outside of a declare attackers step. If Portal Mage enters the battlefield outside of a declare attackers step, its ability simply doesn’t trigger.
8/25/2017 Reselecting which player or planeswalker a creature is attacking ignores all requirements, restrictions, and costs associated with attacking.
8/25/2017 Reselecting which player or planeswalker a creature is attacking doesn’t cause “whenever this creature attacks” abilities to trigger. Notably, the Curses in this set (such as Curse of Vitality) won’t trigger while Portal Mage’s ability is resolving.
8/25/2017 If you reselect which player or planeswalker an attacking creature is attacking, that creature is still considered to have attacked the player or planeswalker as declared, but it is now attacking the new player or planeswalker.
8/25/2017 If an ability targets something controlled by the “defending player” of an attacking creature and the defending player for that creature changes before that ability resolves, the ability won’t resolve because its target has become illegal.
so my question say i redirected it would me and the guy i redirected at both be effected by its anniolate ability?.
Also, what was the question? I found it a bit unclear.
does the attacker trigger not trigger or is it the defending players cards?
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
No. As the rules you quoted say, anything that triggers when something is declared as an attacker, such as Annihilator, will not trigger again when the player is re-selected. The original player it attacked still has to deal with the trigger and sac 4 permanents.See Comment #8. I was thinking Annihilator had already resolved and the OP was asking if it would trigger again. Flashing it before the trigger resolves would work the way the OP wants.EDIT: Also, nothing about Annihilator targets. There are no targets here which actually would change the functionality of the Annihilator trigger.
If you used Portal Mage against Colossal Whale, its ability would fizzle because it specifies "target creature defending player controls", but the creature targeted no longer belongs to the defending player (because Portal Mage changed who the defending player is). This is like how if I were to Go For The Throat your creature, the spell would fizzle if you made that creature an artifact creature in response. This is what that last ruling you cited is trying to say.
Conversely, Kozilek's ability doesn't target. It causes the defending player to sacrifice four permanents. The defending player has changed by the time the ability resolves, but that doesn't matter; there are no targets that have been selected and so the ability still resolves and still affects the (new) defending player.
- Rabid Wombat
The only thing that Portal Mage stops is abilities that specifically read like this: "When/Whenever (this creature)/a creature attacks, X target Y that defending player controls." There needs to 1) be a target (with the actual word 'target'), and 2) be a stipulation that the target is/is controlled by the defending player.
More examples...
Goblin Grappler - Provoke is an ability that targets a creature the defending player controls. If you redirect a goblin grappler with portal mage, then it doesn't get to provoke any of the new defending player's creatures, and the previous defending player's creature that was targeted doesn't even get to untap.
Lorthos, the Tidemaker - Lorthos's ability triggers when it attacks, but it doesn't need to target the defending player's permanents. Redirecting it with portal mage doesn't change the targets of Lorthos's ability; those permanents will still be tapped. All portal mage will accomplish here is maybe avoiding the 8 damage that Lorthos would deal. It has already attacked, so changing what it is attacking won't cause its ability to trigger again either.
Thieving Magpie - This ability doesn't trigger when the magpie attacks, but rather when it deals damage. This is an important difference in a lot of cases, not only when it comes to portal mage. In portal mage's case, the magpie will be redirected but will still draw its controller a card if it hits the new defending player. Of course, you could always steer it into a player with a flying blocker that can kill the magpie, so it's still not a terrible idea to do so.
Curse of Predation - a creature which attacks enchanted player (that is, the moment a creature is announced as an attacker toward that player) gets a counter. This card does not have the word 'target' or 'targets' on it, so even if the creature is then redirected it will still get the counter.
Does that help?
- Rabid Wombat
This would have been my understanding but others in the thread seem to disagree? I'm still a bit confused myself.
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