To the OP. There are no right awnsers here. In the end there are you as an activaty who play, and it is up to you what you want to do.
Persobally I think combo decks, or decks with comboes are dull. What ever you have been doing for the last 20/60 mins has nothing to say once somebody comboes up.
Objectivly the strongest thing you can do in commander is comboing. I would try to solve the problem outside of the game. Simuntaniusly I would build a combo deck in protest to show how stupid their rules are. I would recomend mizziks, it is cheap and easy to combo on a budget.
I also like peoole using proxies (bar mtg tourbaments) as I do not want your echobomic situation to take away from the fun.
I do not understand why magus of the balance is off limits. Balance, it is not. Blood noon if perfectly fine. It is not Ruination. Even Armagedon should be fine, although I personally find it tedius. Your friend just sounds a bit dim. Although talking about what kind of game you want is important.
PS: If you do not like the idea of playing combo decka I woukd recomend playing a stacks kind of deck. The only thing combo decks hate more is Possabilaty Storm, but I asume they ban those as well.
I agree - no right answer. Many ways to go about this (go with the rules, go spike, change to combo, group hug, chaos).
I never had a 'pure' combo deck per se. What I mean by this is tutor for the pieces and go for infinite storm/mana/damage. Most decks of mine need to assemble different parts to go off, but on their own, are still very strong. Example: In Xenagos, God of Revels, I would need Aggravated Assault + Savage Ventmaw with haste or a turn, dodge removal, and be able to attack everyone in order to win.
And I understand where you are coming from with game ending combos. Lots of times, we would be doing fair things...a swing here, a removal there....then someone tutors and combos (turn 5ish). I have built Kess, Dissident Mage combo storm. Works well most of the time, and if I am not dealt with, I just gain value until I go off. I can't/won't do Mizzix of the Izmagnus as that is what that guy plays...
They don't allow proxies so power level creep is kept low (to some extent). It's funny though because the one guy has a larger spending budget (usually gets 2-3 boxes of each set to crack packs). I have the largest array of cards and more expensive cards only because I have been aggressively trading and have played for 5-8 years more then them.
Magus is banned because of what it what it could potentially do. But mainly that prior to the printing, they set a blanket rule and if any card falls within it, it will be banned. Magus falls under it because it removes more than 1 land. To them, Blood Moon prevents people from playing. That and you can't bounce lands (correct: I just asked in chat and the ruler says single target bounce on utility lands is ok). It's not that their dim...it, to me, feels more like them getting away from spike type games/decks. But in the same breath, combo is fine in everyone's book.
I have no problem with combo, I do not play it often as I rotate through decks. However, I am in the process of building Muldrotha, the Gravetide enchantress stax. Funny how Stasis, Back to Basics, and Static Orb are fine (to a point). But red is not in the commander
Judging by your posts so far I'd say you really should find another group. They're probably going to be a lot happier without you >_>'
Like, I'm sorry but when you're under-equipped for a group you wander into and want to stay, you improve your deck and build around their meta....But when you try to force yourself on a group's meta that's not cool. It's even worse when you try to build in a way to spite their house rules because it's being like a child annoying everyone around them in an attempt to get their way. There is nothing positive to be gained from force. If you cannot agree to the ground rules that a group has set in stone, no matter how ridiculous they may seem (And even as a casual scrub battlecruiser myself I find these rules to be silly), then just leave them be so that both sides can be happy.
I suspect the people in this particular meta will think Tainted Aether is an unfair card. Which would make me want to play it against them in B/U stax along with Copy Enchantment and the Copy Enchantment variant from the new commander set.
I suspect the people in this particular meta will think Tainted Aether is an unfair card. Which would make me want to play it against them in B/U stax along with Copy Enchantment and the Copy Enchantment variant from the new commander set.
I believe this assessment to be 100% accurate lol. Though it's really not unfair at all, hell it's even kind of crappy all things considered.
While hilarious, I can't say I approve of this solution as it just leads to animosity and bitterness. It's something I'd probably do though (i.e. don't do it).
100% agree. I always at least make room for 6+ basic lands. I always emphasis, if the occasion arises, what is good and bad deck contruction. Can’t tell you how often there is a lack of single target/mass removal there is. Can’t remember what was said exactly, but it was somewhat around that people should be able to play their play style and not build around the meta (meta meaning to build to counter other people’s decks).
Play Jund Lands (Windgrace) with Tainted AEther. You're not the one blowing up any lands, you're allowing them to choose if they will sacrifice their own, or not play creatures. Meanwhile you're reaping a one way ticket to #ValueTown all day with Windgrace. Combine with other walkers and go with superfriends as a win con to largely negate the Tainted AEther you're built around.
I spoke to a level-headed guy in the group who I run cards by to make sure their ok. We spoke about Words of Wind after going back and forth, it came to the conclusion that more than likely, it would affect lands. So no go. We also spoke about Tainted AEther: he said two things: he thinks either people would not like it and tell you to remove it. And that "people might get scared because of the 'or land' part but on the other hand, it does give people an option." We even brought up Decimate. People in the past stayed away from that card because it said 'and target land.' Funny enough, one person played it and destroyed his own land because there were no utility lands on the field.
Can you send me the link of that deck to look at? Thank you for your comments.
Judging by your posts so far I'd say you really should find another group. They're probably going to be a lot happier without you >_>'
Like, I'm sorry but when you're under-equipped for a group you wander into and want to stay, you improve your deck and build around their meta....But when you try to force yourself on a group's meta that's not cool. It's even worse when you try to build in a way to spite their house rules because it's being like a child annoying everyone around them in an attempt to get their way. There is nothing positive to be gained from force. If you cannot agree to the ground rules that a group has set in stone, no matter how ridiculous they may seem (And even as a casual scrub battlecruiser myself I find these rules to be silly), then just leave them be so that both sides can be happy.
Do you feel I am doing something wrong coming into the group? I am not trying to change everything or force people. I am having difficulty being able to step back and see what is going on, sorry.
All my decks coming into the group were fine (except gold bordered cards). I only made a combo deck because 2 others had it and everyone was fine with it (I always wanted to try and thought this would be a good time).
I do not have an issue abiding by their rules as I seem to be playing more at the store with randoms / semi-regular people that I only know for a few hours once a week.
I suspect the people in this particular meta will think Tainted Aether is an unfair card. Which would make me want to play it against them in B/U stax along with Copy Enchantment and the Copy Enchantment variant from the new commander set.
You seem really intent on making them accept the STAX way of life to the point where aside from arguing with it, you're trying to find workarounds to still achieve the resource denial that they so revile. I really don't think it's worth it. It's ultimately going to be frustrating for everyone involved.
It does bother me when people set house rules to make thier play style better. With that in mind and in an attempt to follow the no land destruction rule what if you let them have the lands but change the mana with Ritual of Subdual or Naked Singularity (both great with solemnity. contamination is another classic for this, or just stasis lock them.
You seem really intent on making them accept the STAX way of life to the point where aside from arguing with it, you're trying to find workarounds to still achieve the resource denial that they so revile. I really don't think it's worth it. It's ultimately going to be frustrating for everyone involved.
Pleas don’t get me wrong - it’s that I am intent on finishing stax, it is just that I started to build it when she was previewed. This issue came up this week.
It does bother me when people set house rules to make thier play style better. With that in mind and in an attempt to follow the no land destruction rule what if you let them have the lands but change the mana with Ritual of Subdual or Naked Singularity (both great with solemnity. contamination is another classic for this, or just stasis lock them.
Anything that changes what an opponent lands tap for is banned. Along with changing other people’s lands into creatures, artifacts, enchantments.
However, Statis is ok.
Anything that changes what an opponent lands tap for is banned. Along with changing other people’s lands into creatures, artifacts, enchantments. However, Statis is ok.
Urborg ToY is fine as people can still tap for their colors. enchanted Evening is not allowed due to it changing lands. The rest are perfect acceptable.
WTF? That makes no sense. Urborg changes lands but is allowed because they still get top tap for their colors. Enchanted Evening changes lands but isn't allowed because...?
Urborg ToY is fine as people can still tap for their colors. enchanted Evening is not allowed due to it changing lands. The rest are perfect acceptable.
WTF? That makes no sense. Urborg changes lands but is allowed because they still get top tap for their colors. Enchanted Evening changes lands but isn't allowed because...?
Because they can be destroyed easier (see below).
Here is a response I got:
“But with messing with people’s lands, it is a constant rehash of the same old same old:
‘Okay, I can’t do LD but if I turn them into all creatures and Toxic Deluge?’
‘Okay, but what if I cast Mycosynth Lattice then Vandalblast for overload?’
‘Okay, but what if I don’t kill the lands but just some of them by making people sac some lands?’
It’s never ending. If your goal is to hope that people scoop because of how unfun you are making the game, then your views and ours don’t align”
For the record, I have not made games unfun. I’ve never played a MLD card or locks with them. I have done two 3 minute combos. (Before this conversation, I wanted to play Living Plane with Linvala, Keeper of Silence to lock their lands.)
Anything that changes what an opponent lands tap for is banned. Along with changing other people’s lands into creatures, artifacts, enchantments. However, Statis is ok.
Never one to fail to point out the irony lol.
Now, in the end, I do t think it would be banned....more likely be discourage. Mainly because of how long games will go and unfun it is.
So it seems your options are
A) play a watered down version of what you like
B) change groups/lgs
C) embrace the strange new version of commander they have created and just ramp better than they do. If nothing can touch lands you should be safe to ramp into stupid amounts of mana very quickly. Search up broken lands and go to town.
D) “Get around” the rules with stasis or tax effects that don’t specifically destroy land.
Personally I would ask for an honest discussion about using the normal ban list so you can all play at other LGS. If that fails I’d personally go with option B
And, if they complain, be salty and say "It didn't say destroy, it says sacrifice".
All of that falls banned category about lands: no mass destroy (also will be interpreted as mass sacrifice hence why the Magus was instantly banned), land altering (ex Blood Moon), and mass land bounce.
Destroying one land via strip mine or Acidic Slime (or bouncing) is fine, but if you are doing it multiple times in a turn over and over again, it would be frowned upon.
Please note Words of Wind would most likely be frowned upon as it could be effecting multiple lands. Same goes with Tainted AEther...the land part is scaaaaaary.
Blood Moon (and Back to Basics, for that matter) is one I really can't find objectionable because, frankly, you're doing it to yourself. My solution has always been to make half my lands nonbasic; if I'm playing white or green, getting one basic forest or plains (or an appropriate other permanent) is just enough to end the eclipse.
I find a way to fit 6 or 7 basics in even my 3c decks to play around Moons (and Tainted Pact, naitch). If I can do that in 3c no green and not have mana issues...then anyone can, especially with green.
IKR? My experience is that trips and quads can be hard, if you have no way to cheat them in, but Breya, Etherium Shaper really didn't need Cryptic Command anyway. I guess it can be an issue with partner commanders, specifically WUBR ones that don't focus on artifacts, so nothing with Silas Renn or Akiri. Obviously, this depends as well; if I try to hardcast Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Iona, Shield of Emeria, or Reya Dawnbringer, I should have no trouble at all since I have 8 or 9 mana at that point, I should have WWW, but hardcasting Grave Pact or Furnace of Rath might mean waiting a turn.
Keep in mind that I keep a Darksteel Ingot in every deck just as insurance for something like Jokulhaups.
But yeah, kids today, feel they're entitled to no mana problems to speak of. In my day, we could mulligan once if we had no lands or if we had all lands, and that includes lands that don't produce mana as lands and jewelry as nonlands, and that's how we liked it!
Magi: it being a creature, costing X mana to play and activate, and you need to tap it was not and will not be taken into consideration. It is the fact of what it does and how it goes against the playgroups rules. I know right?
A bit much. I mean, the only mechanic I feel absolutely can't be balanced is the free spells from Urza's Saga, because development's main tool for balancing cards? When "Untap X lands, where X is this card's CMC." is a thing, that's not possible.
I am building Muldrotha, the Gravetide stax. Almost done.do you mind if I run by you my list? I understand what you mean about pieces as I play Enchantress and Kess.
And yes, there were 3 back-to-back-to-back games where everyone but one person was playing was doing fair plays until the combo player went off. Usually what happens unless myself or someone else is Blue heavy.
Yep. That's what happens when people who don't understand meta start house banning.
Urborg ToY is fine as people can still tap for their colors. enchanted Evening is not allowed due to it changing lands. The rest are perfect acceptable.
WTF? That makes no sense. Urborg changes lands but is allowed because they still get top tap for their colors. Enchanted Evening changes lands but isn't allowed because...?
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
IKR? My experience is that trips and quads can be hard, if you have no way to cheat them in, but Breya, Etherium Shaper really didn't need Cryptic Command anyway. I guess it can be an issue with partner commanders, specifically WUBR ones that don't focus on artifacts, so nothing with Silas Renn or Akiri. Obviously, this depends as well; if I try to hardcast Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Iona, Shield of Emeria, or Reya Dawnbringer, I should have no trouble at all since I have 8 or 9 mana at that point, I should have WWW, but hardcasting Grave Pact or Furnace of Rath might mean waiting a turn.
Keep in mind that I keep a Darksteel Ingot in every deck just as insurance for something like Jokulhaups.
But yeah, kids today, feel they're entitled to no mana problems to speak of. In my day, we could mulligan once if we had no lands or if we had all lands, and that includes lands that don't produce mana as lands and jewelry as nonlands, and that's how we liked it!
I admit to getting really greedy with grand abolisher into necropotence plays with my exceptional mana, but I wouldn't complain if you caught me in a Back to Basics when I tried that. I'd deserve it.
Those were the days LOL. I remember the no land/all land mulligan under "optional rules" in the 4th Ed rulebook. That was back in my younger days when my "combo" was t4 Scaled Wurm because I had a forest + urza tron hahahahaha.
So it seems your options are
A) play a watered down version of what you like
B) change groups/lgs
C) embrace the strange new version of commander they have created and just ramp better than they do. If nothing can touch lands you should be safe to ramp into stupid amounts of mana very quickly. Search up broken lands and go to town.
D) “Get around” the rules with stasis or tax effects that don’t specifically destroy land.
Personally I would ask for an honest discussion about using the normal ban list so you can all play at other LGS. If that fails I’d personally go with option B
Most of the cards in my decks do not fringe on their banned categories. The decks aren't watered down. Every deck has a weakness to something, but can't always cover all bases.
The current LGS is fine. Power level ranges and to an extent, I can choose who I play with (last night, I was at a 4-some and after the game finished, I bowed out nicely to go play with old store friends). None of this playgroup plays there. They mainly do kitchen/club house table magic. No groups that I know of to change so bye to magic if I can't play on Thursday night.
Prior to the initial discussion a few days ago in the chat, I was add/removing cards for the meta. Due to the mass amount of blue, just amount every red deck has Red Elemental Blast. A lot of the decks use graveyard, so I at least added 1-2 cards for that (either via creature, artifact, or instant).
Regarding "D", I am about to post below something that does answer this.
Blood Moon (and Back to Basics, for that matter) is one I really can't find objectionable because, frankly, you're doing it to yourself. My solution has always been to make half my lands nonbasic; if I'm playing white or green, getting one basic forest or plains (or an appropriate other permanent) is just enough to end the eclipse.
I find a way to fit 6 or 7 basics in even my 3c decks to play around Moons (and Tainted Pact, naitch). If I can do that in 3c no green and not have mana issues...then anyone can, especially with green.
IKR? My experience is that trips and quads can be hard, if you have no way to cheat them in, but Breya, Etherium Shaper really didn't need Cryptic Command anyway. I guess it can be an issue with partner commanders, specifically WUBR ones that don't focus on artifacts, so nothing with Silas Renn or Akiri. Obviously, this depends as well; if I try to hardcast Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Iona, Shield of Emeria, or Reya Dawnbringer, I should have no trouble at all since I have 8 or 9 mana at that point, I should have WWW, but hardcasting Grave Pact or Furnace of Rath might mean waiting a turn.
Keep in mind that I keep a Darksteel Ingot in every deck just as insurance for something like Jokulhaups.
But yeah, kids today, feel they're entitled to no mana problems to speak of. In my day, we could mulligan once if we had no lands or if we had all lands, and that includes lands that don't produce mana as lands and jewelry as nonlands, and that's how we liked it!
Magi: it being a creature, costing X mana to play and activate, and you need to tap it was not and will not be taken into consideration. It is the fact of what it does and how it goes against the playgroups rules. I know right?
A bit much. I mean, the only mechanic I feel absolutely can't be balanced is the free spells from Urza's Saga, because development's main tool for balancing cards? When "Untap X lands, where X is this card's CMC." is a thing, that's not possible.
I am building Muldrotha, the Gravetide stax. Almost done.do you mind if I run by you my list? I understand what you mean about pieces as I play Enchantress and Kess.
And yes, there were 3 back-to-back-to-back games where everyone but one person was playing was doing fair plays until the combo player went off. Usually what happens unless myself or someone else is Blue heavy.
Yep. That's what happens when people who don't understand meta start house banning.
Urborg ToY is fine as people can still tap for their colors. enchanted Evening is not allowed due to it changing lands. The rest are perfect acceptable.
WTF? That makes no sense. Urborg changes lands but is allowed because they still get top tap for their colors. Enchanted Evening changes lands but isn't allowed because...?
Regarding Magus, I understand that the reasoning is a bit much. I was repeating what I was told. It being able to remove lands is why it got banned (I believe if it was 15 CMC and required 2 turns to activate, it will still be banned).
The issue at hand is 'removing' lands, changing their type (artifact, creature, enchantment), and color producing. So you can see why Stasis, even though it would be very discouraged and hated on, would still be allowed because they get to keep their lands.
Funny how the loudest one plays Animar combo, Mizzix combo, and Ghave combo.
At the store the other night, I was playing a game and he stopped by to watch as we started. Due to time, 2 others and I said 30 second turns, no combo, fast game (and happy about it). I was playing Purphoros, God of the Forge. I had a fast turn 3 uncounterable Purph with REB up constantly after that. Within the next 2 turns, I got everyone down to 15ish because of Mana Vault and goblins that ETB with more goblin tokens (my hand was emptied fast). He says "no combo huh?" I can't remember what I said, but it was something like 'no combo here, just playing out my hand"
Yes, it is the combo and land removal potential of certain cards that you listed. They want to avoid all of that unfun stuff/combos.
Sorry for the rant, but it looks like the results are final:
After going back to the hotel, I accidentally brought up Words of Wind again...I seriously forgot that I mentioned that card yesterday as one of my examples with them.
Basically, I posted the card's picture and asked someone, who hasn't been a part of any of the conversations in the past few days, what he thought of it. One word reply: "No." This was followed up by another person's "^^This" referencing the No. I followed up with a question: "Could you let me know to what extent is would be banned? As it doesn't fall into any category."
Basically, it came down to it had the potential to bounce non-utility lands. The details of what I was saying were moot (doesn't say land, no mass removal, we can do single target land removal/destruction, etc).
I would have loved to show some of his responses and questions, but within a few minutes, someone from the day before (who is new-ish to the game and doesn't have powerful cards/decks) said they don't want to have this conversation again. BAM, kicked from facebook chat group and lost history (can't seem to find the archived version of it). The person who kicked me was the one I chatted with the most and had tried stax but took it a part.
Time to go back to playing magic 3 days out of the month
"Paper is just fine, but Rock is OP and needs to be banned."
—Scissors
Don't worry, you'll find a new meta, I'm sure.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I agree - no right answer. Many ways to go about this (go with the rules, go spike, change to combo, group hug, chaos).
I never had a 'pure' combo deck per se. What I mean by this is tutor for the pieces and go for infinite storm/mana/damage. Most decks of mine need to assemble different parts to go off, but on their own, are still very strong. Example: In Xenagos, God of Revels, I would need Aggravated Assault + Savage Ventmaw with haste or a turn, dodge removal, and be able to attack everyone in order to win.
And I understand where you are coming from with game ending combos. Lots of times, we would be doing fair things...a swing here, a removal there....then someone tutors and combos (turn 5ish). I have built Kess, Dissident Mage combo storm. Works well most of the time, and if I am not dealt with, I just gain value until I go off. I can't/won't do Mizzix of the Izmagnus as that is what that guy plays...
They don't allow proxies so power level creep is kept low (to some extent). It's funny though because the one guy has a larger spending budget (usually gets 2-3 boxes of each set to crack packs). I have the largest array of cards and more expensive cards only because I have been aggressively trading and have played for 5-8 years more then them.
Magus is banned because of what it what it could potentially do. But mainly that prior to the printing, they set a blanket rule and if any card falls within it, it will be banned. Magus falls under it because it removes more than 1 land. To them, Blood Moon prevents people from playing. That and you can't bounce lands (correct: I just asked in chat and the ruler says single target bounce on utility lands is ok). It's not that their dim...it, to me, feels more like them getting away from spike type games/decks. But in the same breath, combo is fine in everyone's book.
I have no problem with combo, I do not play it often as I rotate through decks. However, I am in the process of building Muldrotha, the Gravetide enchantress stax. Funny how Stasis, Back to Basics, and Static Orb are fine (to a point). But red is not in the commander
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Like, I'm sorry but when you're under-equipped for a group you wander into and want to stay, you improve your deck and build around their meta....But when you try to force yourself on a group's meta that's not cool. It's even worse when you try to build in a way to spite their house rules because it's being like a child annoying everyone around them in an attempt to get their way. There is nothing positive to be gained from force. If you cannot agree to the ground rules that a group has set in stone, no matter how ridiculous they may seem (And even as a casual scrub battlecruiser myself I find these rules to be silly), then just leave them be so that both sides can be happy.
I believe this assessment to be 100% accurate lol. Though it's really not unfair at all, hell it's even kind of crappy all things considered.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I spoke to a level-headed guy in the group who I run cards by to make sure their ok. We spoke about Words of Wind after going back and forth, it came to the conclusion that more than likely, it would affect lands. So no go. We also spoke about Tainted AEther: he said two things: he thinks either people would not like it and tell you to remove it. And that "people might get scared because of the 'or land' part but on the other hand, it does give people an option." We even brought up Decimate. People in the past stayed away from that card because it said 'and target land.' Funny enough, one person played it and destroyed his own land because there were no utility lands on the field.
Can you send me the link of that deck to look at? Thank you for your comments.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Do you feel I am doing something wrong coming into the group? I am not trying to change everything or force people. I am having difficulty being able to step back and see what is going on, sorry.
All my decks coming into the group were fine (except gold bordered cards). I only made a combo deck because 2 others had it and everyone was fine with it (I always wanted to try and thought this would be a good time).
I do not have an issue abiding by their rules as I seem to be playing more at the store with randoms / semi-regular people that I only know for a few hours once a week.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I am almost done with BUG Muldrotha, the Gravetide stax. See my comment above about Tainted AEther
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Pleas don’t get me wrong - it’s that I am intent on finishing stax, it is just that I started to build it when she was previewed. This issue came up this week.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Anything that changes what an opponent lands tap for is banned. Along with changing other people’s lands into creatures, artifacts, enchantments.
However, Statis is ok.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Never one to fail to point out the irony lol.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Because they can be destroyed easier (see below).
Here is a response I got:
For the record, I have not made games unfun. I’ve never played a MLD card or locks with them. I have done two 3 minute combos. (Before this conversation, I wanted to play Living Plane with Linvala, Keeper of Silence to lock their lands.)
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Now, in the end, I do t think it would be banned....more likely be discourage. Mainly because of how long games will go and unfun it is.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Keldon Firebombers, Epicenter, Tectonic Break, Impending Disaster, Death Cloud, Global Ruin, Restore Balance
And, if they complain, be salty and say "It didn't say destroy, it says sacrifice".
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardA) play a watered down version of what you like
B) change groups/lgs
C) embrace the strange new version of commander they have created and just ramp better than they do. If nothing can touch lands you should be safe to ramp into stupid amounts of mana very quickly. Search up broken lands and go to town.
D) “Get around” the rules with stasis or tax effects that don’t specifically destroy land.
Personally I would ask for an honest discussion about using the normal ban list so you can all play at other LGS. If that fails I’d personally go with option B
All of that falls banned category about lands: no mass destroy (also will be interpreted as mass sacrifice hence why the Magus was instantly banned), land altering (ex Blood Moon), and mass land bounce.
Destroying one land via strip mine or Acidic Slime (or bouncing) is fine, but if you are doing it multiple times in a turn over and over again, it would be frowned upon.
Please note Words of Wind would most likely be frowned upon as it could be effecting multiple lands. Same goes with Tainted AEther...the land part is scaaaaaary.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
IKR? My experience is that trips and quads can be hard, if you have no way to cheat them in, but Breya, Etherium Shaper really didn't need Cryptic Command anyway. I guess it can be an issue with partner commanders, specifically WUBR ones that don't focus on artifacts, so nothing with Silas Renn or Akiri. Obviously, this depends as well; if I try to hardcast Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Iona, Shield of Emeria, or Reya Dawnbringer, I should have no trouble at all since I have 8 or 9 mana at that point, I should have WWW, but hardcasting Grave Pact or Furnace of Rath might mean waiting a turn.
Keep in mind that I keep a Darksteel Ingot in every deck just as insurance for something like Jokulhaups.
But yeah, kids today, feel they're entitled to no mana problems to speak of. In my day, we could mulligan once if we had no lands or if we had all lands, and that includes lands that don't produce mana as lands and jewelry as nonlands, and that's how we liked it!
A bit much. I mean, the only mechanic I feel absolutely can't be balanced is the free spells from Urza's Saga, because development's main tool for balancing cards? When "Untap X lands, where X is this card's CMC." is a thing, that's not possible.
Wait, they have no issues with Stasis? LOL (Okay, the advent of planeswalkers means my old Chronatog deck is no longer a solid lock, but still...)
Post it in the decklist forum.
Yep. That's what happens when people who don't understand meta start house banning.
I can see why. It's the combo potential. In fact, I run this exact trick (with Mycosynth Lattice and Aura Shards and Martyr's Bond, and with Living Plane or Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite) in Ghave, Guru of Spores. I can't even do the most unfair things like turning all lands into 0/0 creatures on the cheap (Living Plane and Night of Souls' Betrayal, Mycosynth Lattice and March of the Machines, Enchanted Evening and Opalescence) in that deck because except for the first one (which I don't run because tokens), every one of these combos requires blue.
This isn't even MLD, this is repeatable MLD.
On phasing:
I admit to getting really greedy with grand abolisher into necropotence plays with my exceptional mana, but I wouldn't complain if you caught me in a Back to Basics when I tried that. I'd deserve it.
Those were the days LOL. I remember the no land/all land mulligan under "optional rules" in the 4th Ed rulebook. That was back in my younger days when my "combo" was t4 Scaled Wurm because I had a forest + urza tron hahahahaha.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Most of the cards in my decks do not fringe on their banned categories. The decks aren't watered down. Every deck has a weakness to something, but can't always cover all bases.
The current LGS is fine. Power level ranges and to an extent, I can choose who I play with (last night, I was at a 4-some and after the game finished, I bowed out nicely to go play with old store friends). None of this playgroup plays there. They mainly do kitchen/club house table magic. No groups that I know of to change so bye to magic if I can't play on Thursday night.
Prior to the initial discussion a few days ago in the chat, I was add/removing cards for the meta. Due to the mass amount of blue, just amount every red deck has Red Elemental Blast. A lot of the decks use graveyard, so I at least added 1-2 cards for that (either via creature, artifact, or instant).
Regarding "D", I am about to post below something that does answer this.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Sorry can't multi-quote well on a phone.
Regarding Magus, I understand that the reasoning is a bit much. I was repeating what I was told. It being able to remove lands is why it got banned (I believe if it was 15 CMC and required 2 turns to activate, it will still be banned).
The issue at hand is 'removing' lands, changing their type (artifact, creature, enchantment), and color producing. So you can see why Stasis, even though it would be very discouraged and hated on, would still be allowed because they get to keep their lands.
Funny how the loudest one plays Animar combo, Mizzix combo, and Ghave combo.
At the store the other night, I was playing a game and he stopped by to watch as we started. Due to time, 2 others and I said 30 second turns, no combo, fast game (and happy about it). I was playing Purphoros, God of the Forge. I had a fast turn 3 uncounterable Purph with REB up constantly after that. Within the next 2 turns, I got everyone down to 15ish because of Mana Vault and goblins that ETB with more goblin tokens (my hand was emptied fast). He says "no combo huh?" I can't remember what I said, but it was something like 'no combo here, just playing out my hand"
Yes, it is the combo and land removal potential of certain cards that you listed. They want to avoid all of that unfun stuff/combos.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
After going back to the hotel, I accidentally brought up Words of Wind again...I seriously forgot that I mentioned that card yesterday as one of my examples with them.
Basically, I posted the card's picture and asked someone, who hasn't been a part of any of the conversations in the past few days, what he thought of it. One word reply: "No." This was followed up by another person's "^^This" referencing the No. I followed up with a question: "Could you let me know to what extent is would be banned? As it doesn't fall into any category."
Basically, it came down to it had the potential to bounce non-utility lands. The details of what I was saying were moot (doesn't say land, no mass removal, we can do single target land removal/destruction, etc).
I would have loved to show some of his responses and questions, but within a few minutes, someone from the day before (who is new-ish to the game and doesn't have powerful cards/decks) said they don't want to have this conversation again. BAM, kicked from facebook chat group and lost history (can't seem to find the archived version of it). The person who kicked me was the one I chatted with the most and had tried stax but took it a part.
Time to go back to playing magic 3 days out of the month
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
—Scissors
Don't worry, you'll find a new meta, I'm sure.
On phasing:
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.