Cruel Tutor, what about this? It's basically a 3-Mana Sorc-speed Vampiric Tutor, but it may be a better option that Demonic, seeing as how you can setup for Yuriko/Temporal Mastery.
(Also, I didn't see Karn's Temporal Sundering on the main list; I feel like that's probably better than Time Stretch, because I don't see Time Stretch ever really being feasibly castable..)
Any particular reason no one has Cabal Coffers/Stronghold and Urborg in their lists?
Because more often than not, Cabal Coffers is a bad card outside of mono-black. That is most certainly the case here, where we care about speed. Coffers is quite a bit worse than tapped lands. Cabal Stronghold is always a bad card.
Cruel Tutor, what about this? It's basically a 3-Mana Sorc-speed Vampiric Tutor, but it may be a better option that Demonic, seeing as how you can setup for Yuriko/Temporal Mastery.
Do not play Cruel Tutor. It takes deliberately bad building for it to not be the worst card in the deck.
The only place you could plausibly argue it is better than Demonic Tutor is in Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire, where top of library cheats the mana cost. And you would still be wrong.
Signal Pest is a decent ninja enabler but generally better in 60 card decks where the battle cry is significantly more relevant with a board full of 1/1 evasive creatures.
Please do not run Cruel Tutor. Like, I'd much rather see Diabolic Tutor in a deck because at least when you invest this much of your turn on a setup play you get the card immediately. Here, you pay a good chunk of mana and you still have to wait a turn or waste a draw.
Cabal Coffers is not good here. We have pretty heavy blue color commitments and we can't easily grab both that and Urborg. Even if we do have both at the same time, using it would be disadvantageous as we would have an excess of black mana but most of our spells require blue. Leave it to the monoblack and green-black landfall builds.
Same goes for Cabal Stronghold, but doubly so because of the higher activation and stringent requirements.
Has anyone tried things like Quickling or Faerie Imposter as ways to protect Yuriko from potentially getting stolen, turned into a land or whatever while also providing yet another Ninjitsu enabler?
Neither of those cards function as "another" Ninjitsu enabler.
If you are truly concerned about those effects, you have access to many far superior options of dealing with them, many of which are probably already included in the deck by default.
I like Quickling in my build, it provide some utility in protecting things then being an evasive creature again.
I've constructed my build around always getting yuriko on 2 and as such am running 15 drops or so, I've cut corners on lands and manarocks in return. Anything beyond 1 mana creatures have to provide amazing utility as a result.
My build is running all the ninjas (even the bad ones) I am not looking for greatness. Just theme. (Plus o feel obi, ink eyes and higure are fair ninjas to run. Then where is sakashima's student. Ninjitsu him in as a copy of blighsteel.
I was considering Attrition as both a Sac Outlet and Removal, but opted not to.. I guess I do need a second one, even at the expense of being a Colorless Land..
I feel like Delve is going to be hard to fuel, so having 3 Delve Cards is probably too much.. (I'll probably cut Cruise.)
Some Cards I have questions on:
Lightning Greaves - I see not many are including this, isn't being able to give a Creature protection for 0 Mana good? And/or the utility of being able to attack right away with an Enabler after removal/board clears?
Mana Vault - With the Color dependency we have, is a Rock that doesn't Tap for Colored Mana even worth the Deckslot? (9 times out of 10, I never untap Vault.. lol. Also, I can't find my spare Vault anywhere..)
Dimir Keyrune - The utility to become a Ninja Enabler, is it worth running a 3CMC Rock?
Doomsday - Most piles possible require some form of setup, parts already on the board, a bunch of Mana, and/or waiting/just using it for value. Not sure if it's worth it, but it could be good, and could also bait Counters. (Main plan would be to get Nexus of Fate to be the only Card in your Library, and infinitely recur it; would require either Putrid Imp or As Foretold to not Deck self out.. (or a ton of Mana to Cast Nexus twice in a Turn.)
Knowledge Exploitation - What would be the best Targets to steal with this? Seems like potentially a gamble, and I may just be better off using my 4+Mana towards furthering my Deck's plan.. But with how Removal-lite we are, it could be nice to snag a Decimate, or something.
Sunken Hollow - Doesn't come in untapped until at least T3.. Is that worth it, just because it's fetchable?
All I can think of for now, still have to cut like 20 Cards.. T_T
I think Lightning Greaves is mostly useful for the haste. How I see its utility is that the card is at its best when you are using it to recover from board wipes. Your ninja enablers are cheap enough that you don't really need the haste early.
Mana Vault is basically a colorless Dark Ritual (and also less useful than that). As such, it only makes sense as a means of speeding out an extra turn.
However, on that note, I think Chrome Mox is really good. The extra mana source on turn 1 can help you recoup the lost card very easily.
I've been using cruise to help me refuel because I've been eating an ungodly amount of removal on the ninjas while playing this deck.
Ghastlord of Fugue has the built in unblocked and the effect exile any card in the opponent's hand of your choice. Pretty good combined with Blade of Selves.
Wew, I can't believe we got such a nice gift from C18, while not the best ever commander I'm definitely having fun trying to come up with a list, sadly I wont have time to actually play for a while but I'll try to get hold of most of the cards I want that aren't too expensive. Anyways, I think stracking time walks with 1 mana evasive dudes and [[Conspiracy]] is the best way to build this deck. Ideally we can get out a conspiracy, follow it up with an extra turn and then keep going from there.
On that note, I think playing mediocre cards just to do a few more damage is a mistake, but testing will show. Playing bad cards just for damage (yes, eldrazi are bad here) is a big no-no.
If having Colorless Lands is bad, then could Chromatic Lantern be good (or is it too much Mana?)
Too much mana, I think. I consisently want UB early, but we don't need a ton of fixing after that. I don't think we should be running that many colorless lands and we're only 2 colours.
Ghastlord of Fugue has the built in unblocked and the effect exile any card in the opponent's hand of your choice. Pretty good combined with Blade of Selves.
This seems slow, not that powerful and to be honest I don't see what synergy it has with Yuriko since we won't Ninjutsu it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
Ghastlord is fine in some decks, but not really what's wanted here. In my Sygg deck he's solid. This deck isn't meant to kill people with unblockable dudes, though. It's meant to kill by revealing huge cost things off the top of the deck until everyone is dead. A few points of unblockable damage here and there makes that goal a little easier to achieve, but the main damage will occur from combat-related triggers, not by poking people to death with small critters.
Thassa, God of the Sea can make your creatures unblockable, and although the Scry 1 doesn't time all that well with Yuriko damage ability, it does allow you to put big casting cost card onto the bottom that you ordinarily wouldn't want to draw. Or even if you're flooding or mana screw, or have enough "little creature" enablers.
After some thoughts, the two builds I'm interesting in trying with Yuriko is either combo Yuriko that plays Conspiracy-esque effects & Time Walks to get as many triggers as possible and win off that. The other build would be to run Yuriko as a helm of a control shell that forgoes wincons and mostly run haste/recursive creatures coupled with manlands to get Yuriko triggers partly for value but mostly as a grindy wincon. I'm excited to try both decks when I get the chance.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
After some thoughts, the two builds I'm interesting in trying with Yuriko is either combo Yuriko that plays Conspiracy-esque effects & Time Walks to get as many triggers as possible and win off that. The other build would be to run Yuriko as a helm of a control shell that forgoes wincons and mostly run haste/recursive creatures coupled with manlands to get Yuriko triggers partly for value but mostly as a grindy wincon. I'm excited to try both decks when I get the chance.
Report your results. I'd be pleased to hear the data from both.
After some thoughts, the two builds I'm interesting in trying with Yuriko is either combo Yuriko that plays Conspiracy-esque effects & Time Walks to get as many triggers as possible and win off that. The other build would be to run Yuriko as a helm of a control shell that forgoes wincons and mostly run haste/recursive creatures coupled with manlands to get Yuriko triggers partly for value but mostly as a grindy wincon. I'm excited to try both decks when I get the chance.
Report your results. I'd be pleased to hear the data from both.
Gap well.
Of course, it'll be a while until I have the time to play though sadly.
Mask things well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Sword series - [c]Sword of Feast and Famine[/e] et al. Strong cards that show up a lot of places in their own right, and seem very good in this deck because you only need to get through one person. Usually one person at a 4-player table will be playing creatures of a color where you can get through them.
Agreed. I will add both in.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Because more often than not, Cabal Coffers is a bad card outside of mono-black. That is most certainly the case here, where we care about speed. Coffers is quite a bit worse than tapped lands.
Cabal Stronghold is always a bad card.
Do not play Cruel Tutor. It takes deliberately bad building for it to not be the worst card in the deck.
The only place you could plausibly argue it is better than Demonic Tutor is in Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire, where top of library cheats the mana cost. And you would still be wrong.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
Please do not run Cruel Tutor. Like, I'd much rather see Diabolic Tutor in a deck because at least when you invest this much of your turn on a setup play you get the card immediately. Here, you pay a good chunk of mana and you still have to wait a turn or waste a draw.
Cabal Coffers is not good here. We have pretty heavy blue color commitments and we can't easily grab both that and Urborg. Even if we do have both at the same time, using it would be disadvantageous as we would have an excess of black mana but most of our spells require blue. Leave it to the monoblack and green-black landfall builds.
Same goes for Cabal Stronghold, but doubly so because of the higher activation and stringent requirements.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
If you are truly concerned about those effects, you have access to many far superior options of dealing with them, many of which are probably already included in the deck by default.
Those faeries are bad.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
And on that topic, what do you guys feel is the right number of "Ninja Enablers?" (And do 2-CMC Creatures and/or Flyers, count?)
What are you guys using for non-Creature Removal aside from Counters?
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
What I have so far.. I need to cut some stuff, but I have no clue what.. >_<
Any suggestions? I also think my Mana Base needs work.. (I'll probably drop Inkmoth.)
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I was considering Attrition as both a Sac Outlet and Removal, but opted not to.. I guess I do need a second one, even at the expense of being a Colorless Land..
I feel like Delve is going to be hard to fuel, so having 3 Delve Cards is probably too much.. (I'll probably cut Cruise.)
Some Cards I have questions on:
All I can think of for now, still have to cut like 20 Cards.. T_T
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
Mana Vault is basically a colorless Dark Ritual (and also less useful than that). As such, it only makes sense as a means of speeding out an extra turn.
However, on that note, I think Chrome Mox is really good. The extra mana source on turn 1 can help you recoup the lost card very easily.
I've been using cruise to help me refuel because I've been eating an ungodly amount of removal on the ninjas while playing this deck.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
That is why when people talk about extra turn spells even the "bad" ones are still considered good cards.
Since we like having extra attack steps, extra turns do a lot of work for us.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
On that note, I think playing mediocre cards just to do a few more damage is a mistake, but testing will show. Playing bad cards just for damage (yes, eldrazi are bad here) is a big no-no.
Too much mana, I think. I consisently want UB early, but we don't need a ton of fixing after that. I don't think we should be running that many colorless lands and we're only 2 colours.
This seems slow, not that powerful and to be honest I don't see what synergy it has with Yuriko since we won't Ninjutsu it.
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
Mistform Ultimus is a Ninja and can be a Rouge for Notorious Throng.
Sakashima the Impostor can be a Ninja and a Rouge as well.
If you wanted to go the bigger is better route, then Enter the Infinite, Omniscience could be cast off Djinn of Wishes in conjunction with Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Insidious Dreams, Lim-Dul's Vault, etc.
Also with Bone Harvest, Dead Reckoning, Footbottom Feast, Haunted Crossroads, Mortuary Mire, Volrath's Stronghold, you could setup with Buried Alive or Intuition.
Imagine doing Buried Alive for It That Betrays, Emrakul, the Promised End, Draco. Then casting Bone Harvest, and hitting with three Ninjas. That's 41 damage to all opponents.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Yes, scry 6 seems kinda overkill, it also lacks evasion for re-usability, unlike, say, owls, which are also cheaper.
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
Report your results. I'd be pleased to hear the data from both.
Gap well.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Of course, it'll be a while until I have the time to play though sadly.
Mask things well.
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Sword series - [c]Sword of Feast and Famine[/e] et al. Strong cards that show up a lot of places in their own right, and seem very good in this deck because you only need to get through one person. Usually one person at a 4-player table will be playing creatures of a color where you can get through them.
Also, Mutavault seems great in here.