how about Draco? that can do a a nice chunk of damage.
And at the same time, Mirror Gallery with Clones. Saw a test match where a guy had mirror gallery and Rite of replication kicked Yuriko That was 6 yuriko and managed to connect with all 6 meaning that was 36 cards.
Anything that exists purely for doing damage when drawn gets cut pretty quickly. Your commander is still a draw engine at the end of the day, so you want to draw relevant stuff, even if you can only cast it some turns later.
how about Draco? that can do a a nice chunk of damage.
And at the same time, Mirror Gallery with Clones. Saw a test match where a guy had mirror gallery and Rite of replication kicked Yuriko That was 6 yuriko and managed to connect with all 6 meaning that was 36 cards.
Anything that exists purely for doing damage when drawn gets cut pretty quickly. Your commander is still a draw engine at the end of the day, so you want to draw relevant stuff, even if you can only cast it some turns later.
fair enough.
But by that logic, i feel that the eldrazi may not be worth it overall. Kozi, both are worthless if you are already drawing enough cards. Ulamog may be the only one of worth. (plus Ulamog is harder to get rid of than Kozilek.)
If you are unning eldrazi for hard hit, then Draco is right up your alley. If you are looking at card draw, I would cut the eldrzi and focus on getting a lot of little shots in. Whispersilk cloak, Hot soup, Prowler's Helm, Skeleton Key, Trailblazer's BootsBehind the scenes. Just to name a few things that allow your ninjas to hit. Sure it is little shots but it adds up.
Now if you are worried about deck yourself out, then maybe the eldrazi is worth it. at least the original kozi and ulamog as they shuffle back in.
Now if only there was a way to have ninja as be able to do the inverse of Ninjitsu. Cheat a blighsteel into play.
how about Draco? that can do a a nice chunk of damage.
And at the same time, Mirror Gallery with Clones. Saw a test match where a guy had mirror gallery and Rite of replication kicked Yuriko That was 6 yuriko and managed to connect with all 6 meaning that was 36 cards.
Anything that exists purely for doing damage when drawn gets cut pretty quickly. Your commander is still a draw engine at the end of the day, so you want to draw relevant stuff, even if you can only cast it some turns later.
fair enough.
But by that logic, i feel that the eldrazi may not be worth it overall. Kozi, both are worthless if you are already drawing enough cards. Ulamog may be the only one of worth. (plus Ulamog is harder to get rid of than Kozilek.)
If you are unning eldrazi for hard hit, then Draco is right up your alley. If you are looking at card draw, I would cut the eldrzi and focus on getting a lot of little shots in. Whispersilk cloak, Hot soup, Prowler's Helm, Skeleton Key, Trailblazer's BootsBehind the scenes. Just to name a few things that allow your ninjas to hit. Sure it is little shots but it adds up.
Now if you are worried about deck yourself out, then maybe the eldrazi is worth it. at least the original kozi and ulamog as they shuffle back in.
Now if only there was a way to have ninja as be able to do the inverse of Ninjitsu. Cheat a blighsteel into play.
For my builds at least, I cut the eldrazi very quickly. Why play Ulamog when Commit // Memory does the same damage (and is castable)? Instead, you can run Spellseeker which can get the tutor you need to guarantee that it is on top of your library.
Behind the Scenes is W/B color identity. Most efficient sneak enablers are Cover of Darkness and Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. Shizo is incredible for being a land. Next on my list is actually Writ of Passage. You can forecast it on anything (or if you suspect removal) or you can just cast it on the commander for 1 mana to get easy hits in. It's like a Thassa but you don't have to pay the initial 3 in exchange for not having a scry 1.
In these types of decks, mana constraints are the main obstacles. Try to avoid paying extra for effects when possible.
My preliminary deck list can be found here.
The core strategy is very much agro-control. I expect it to play similarly to a slower, more control oriented Edric deck.
I am currently over by 16 cards.
The deck is weighted far more heavily towards blue than I would like, so blue cards will likely be cut first.
The deck runs more creatures than I think is necessary, so creatures will likely be cut first. Starting with the 2 worst ninja's, I think.
The mana base and individual card choices are likely to be adjusted.
In particular, what is the opinion of Damnation vs. Decree of Pain?
Edit: A few specific cards worth mentioning.
Only cyberium has mentioned Gush, with no discussion on it as far as I can see.
Also, no one thought of Blinkmoth Nexus & Inkmoth Nexus?
how about Draco? that can do a a nice chunk of damage.
And at the same time, Mirror Gallery with Clones. Saw a test match where a guy had mirror gallery and Rite of replication kicked Yuriko That was 6 yuriko and managed to connect with all 6 meaning that was 36 cards.
Anything that exists purely for doing damage when drawn gets cut pretty quickly. Your commander is still a draw engine at the end of the day, so you want to draw relevant stuff, even if you can only cast it some turns later.
fair enough.
But by that logic, i feel that the eldrazi may not be worth it overall. Kozi, both are worthless if you are already drawing enough cards. Ulamog may be the only one of worth. (plus Ulamog is harder to get rid of than Kozilek.)
If you are unning eldrazi for hard hit, then Draco is right up your alley. If you are looking at card draw, I would cut the eldrzi and focus on getting a lot of little shots in. Whispersilk cloak, Hot soup, Prowler's Helm, Skeleton Key, Trailblazer's BootsBehind the scenes. Just to name a few things that allow your ninjas to hit. Sure it is little shots but it adds up.
Now if you are worried about deck yourself out, then maybe the eldrazi is worth it. at least the original kozi and ulamog as they shuffle back in.
Now if only there was a way to have ninja as be able to do the inverse of Ninjitsu. Cheat a blighsteel into play.
For my builds at least, I cut the eldrazi very quickly. Why play Ulamog when Commit // Memory does the same damage (and is castable)? Instead, you can run Spellseeker which can get the tutor you need to guarantee that it is on top of your library.
Behind the Scenes is W/B color identity. Most efficient sneak enablers are Cover of Darkness and Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. Shizo is incredible for being a land. Next on my list is actually Writ of Passage. You can forecast it on anything (or if you suspect removal) or you can just cast it on the commander for 1 mana to get easy hits in. It's like a Thassa but you don't have to pay the initial 3 in exchange for not having a scry 1.
In these types of decks, mana constraints are the main obstacles. Try to avoid paying extra for effects when possible.
Forgot behind the scenes has the +white ability. i remembered playing it on doran and never even thought about the bonus effect (It really was just for skulk.)
too bad too, would have ben great, thanks for pointing t out. if I did not notice it would have gone into my Yuriko build.
I decided to go all in and try to win with Yuriko's abilities. That means: no Eldrazi or other shenanigans, but just play lots of Ninjas, lots of evasion, and some high cmc spells. A lot of the high CMC spells can be cast for cheap alternative costs, so I hopefully don't have to tap out often (many of them have already been mentioned in this tread. Not sure if Beseech the Queen has been mentioned, but it also has cmc 6). I will only be able to test this deck on thursday, but I hope it will live up to my expectation of Edric on steroids. Attack early and often with a bunch of small critters, draw lots of cards, make everybody lose lots of life, and deal with troublesome opponents via an extensive suite of counterspells and removal. I decided to go low on the land count, since I expect to draw a lot of cards and not often miss my land drops. In order to get the most out of Yuriko, I opted to replace some basic lands with mana rocks (special technology: Mistvein Borderpost, which is functionally Dimir Guildgate but with Yuriko synergy). The low land count might come back to haunt me, but what's the fun of brewing commander decks if you can't experiment once in a while.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
Does anyone have space to test Mox Amber? I just realized that this is probably one of the best decks for it. Ever play a 2 drop, then attack with it, drop Yuriko, and regret that you can't replay your 2 drop for value? Now you can if you have one of these. Just be sure to always use it first when she is out during any particular turn in case of shenanigans.
Does anyone have space to test Mox Amber? I just realized that this is probably one of the best decks for it. Ever play a 2 drop, then attack with it, drop Yuriko, and regret that you can't replay your 2 drop for value? Now you can if you have one of these. Just be sure to always use it first when she is out during any particular turn in case of shenanigans.
seems like a limited and rare upside for all the times it will just be a dead draw.
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
When will it be a dead draw? When you don't have your commander out? Your curve is low so it isn't likely...
When you literally have no creatures out or in hand and drawing this would be about as impactful as drawing a land? Which is to say drawing a land would not help in that situation either.. More importantly, why did you overextend with ninja enablers then?
This card is 4 mana on turn 3 split between two two-drops. That is huge.. Being able to replay your ninja enabler allows you to follow up with real ninjas or another spell and not lose a turn's worth of attacking. I'll take any card that will enable me to take advantage of as many combat steps as possible and assess the risks of playing it. I think the risk is worth it.
My preliminary deck list can be found here.
The core strategy is very much agro-control. I expect it to play similarly to a slower, more control oriented Edric deck.
I like the list a lot. This is how I'm approaching the deck as well.
Can't believe I missed Cursecatcher and Mausoleum Wanderer. Did you consider Spiketail Hatchling? 2cmc, but it hits all kinds of spells. I don't think I've ever actually seen any Force Spike creatures played in EDH, but the psychological chilling effect could be very effective.
Shadowmage Infiltrator is a trap I think. 3cmc is too much to ask for a ninjutsu target unless it does something particularly strong (Spellseeker) and we want Finkel hitting players, but getting ninjutsued out. Likewise, Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni is just too pricy and her on hit doesn't synergize with our game plan that well. 6cmc is nice for draining people but then you have a dead card in your hand.
I think 36 lands is excessive. We have a low curve, run lots of cantrips, and can run the good mana rocks.
I see that you cut Trinket Mage but kept a sweet package for him. So many juicy targets. That was actually where my head was at before I stated seriously looking at your list.
I think Decree of Pain is a greedy choice. Yes, it does quite a bit of damage on a Yuriko flip, but Damnation's reasonable casting cost will reliably save us from a nasty board when Decree can rot in your hand. Yes, you can cycle Decree, but very rarely will that solve your problems.
Only cyberium has mentioned Gush, with no discussion on it as far as I can see.
Tough call. Gush is obviously a powerful Magic card but I'm a little concerned about having to return the lands in this deck. In a combo deck where you win on the turn you Gush, it doesn't matter, but should we whiff it sets us back two turns of mana production. It's definitely worth testing but I don't know where to make the cuts.
These are obvious additions and I'm ashamed I didn't think of them. In a similar vein Faerie Conclave could be a desperation ninjutsu target, but 2 mana (and a stunted land drop) to activate it is rough.
re: Mox Amber: It's certainly worth testing. I'm not going to be able to play for awhile so I can't test it myself, but I think it shows a lot of promise. With a quarter of the deck dedicated to evasive weenies getting our commander into play is trivial and free mana is, well, free mana. It's an excellent post combat main phase drop to redeploy the creature we ninjutsued up and
Has anyone had trouble getting their graveyard big enough to make the huge delve spells reliably castable?
Dark Petition seems like a great tutor here. CasualCalamity1 brought up Beseech the Queen, but I think that card is unplayable outside of mono-black. Petition hits for one less, but is more likely to be cast and refunds most of its cost. Similarly, maybe Liliana Vess?
Also, "ninja enabler" is probably my favorite Magic term now.
Dark Petition is an awesome card, but the triple black you get is more difficult to spend unless it is significantly in the lategame. I'm omitting the super obvious include Demonic Tutor as I am planning on running Diabolic Intent for a tutor that can sac my commander to get what I need. No reason not to put DT in the deck but I want to at least try to not load my black decks with every obvious tutor effect in the game.
I haven't seen it in a real game yet, but this deck flips Dowsing Dagger very easily and it being a land makes it worth not getting an extra draw in sometimes. This deck still wants to hit its land drops to get to its endgame.
I'm still debating on if I want to run Looter il-Kor or Slither Blade. The looter does have a nice effect when we have no ninja to sneak out but I wonder how often I really need it. 1 cmc ninja enabler is a massive difference from 2.
Decree of Pain is very greedy. I'm debating on if I even want to run cheap mass bounce over Toxic Deluge. All is Dust may not even stay in the deck and I have it in there as insurance against cards that I would not be able to otherwise beat.
I plan on running Bitterblossom as the 1/1 tokens are essentially free enablers and allow me to be far more liberal with saccing Yuriko to various effects. They also chump pretty well and can perform light pressure in a pinch.
As for the delve cards, I think the deck could use a little bit more help fueling the mechanic. It often is at its best when you're recovering from a board wipe (because you aren't getting back the creatures anyway)
I'm still debating on if I want to run Looter il-Kor or Slither Blade. The looter does have a nice effect when we have no ninja to sneak out but I wonder how often I really need it. 1 cmc ninja enabler is a massive difference from 2.
If it came to a one drop I would go with Hypnotic Siren over Slither Blade, since it can be used to steal an opponent's creature late game.
Wharf Infiltrator might be something to look into compared to Looter il-Kor. Skulk is weaker than Shadow but the the chance to sink 2 mana for a 3/2 token can help.
Did you consider Spiketail Hatchling? 2cmc, but it hits all kinds of spells. I don't think I've ever actually seen any Force Spike creatures played in EDH, but the psychological chilling effect could be very effective.
Briefly. Not good enough.
The only reason I still have Cursecatcher & Siren Stormtamer listed is that they can attack on turn 2. With seven such cards, Yuriko will hit on turn 2 ~45% of the games.
Shadowmage Infiltrator is a trap I think. 3cmc is too much to ask for a ninjutsu target unless it does something particularly strong (Spellseeker) and we want Finkel hitting players, but getting ninjutsued out. Likewise, Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni is just too pricy and her on hit doesn't synergize with our game plan that well. 6cmc is nice for draining people but then you have a dead card in your hand.
3 mana is a lot to pay for a Ninjitsu enabler. That is why I currently list only 2; each of which is a strong card on its own. I do admit that Shadowmage Infiltrator is probably one of the weaker cards, it is still a strong effect that can be a Ninjitsu enabler if needed, but is not included for that reason alone.
I do still need to make cuts, so maybe it will get pulled anyway.
I want eight 'native' Ninja's in the deck. Ink-Eyes is actually a place holder for Masterful Ninja, which would be swapped out for either Ink-Eyes or Silent-Blade Oni if players in any particular group complains - most people in my area are fine with Un-set cards so long as they do not require 'un rules' to work, even if no one has actually used any yet (Masterful Ninja is admittedly borderline, but there is reason to believe the Comprehensive Rules could support a card being in multiple zones simultaneously, unlike tracking spoken words or throwing cards).
Ultimately I decided the single color and reduced cost of Ink-Eyes made it a better option than Silent-Blade, but I may revisit that decision after play testing.
(On the subject of Masterful Ninja, that is probably the single strongest enabler for Yuriko available, despite not having evasion, provided your group allows it). Edit: After thinking about it more, Masterful Ninja is either a far stronger enabler than I had thought, or doesn't enable her at all (still worth playing though).
This depends on if moving the Ninja to your hand effectively does nothing (stay a on the battlefield attacking), or if it is an impossible action (cannot be used to pay Ninjitsu costs). I suspect the latter, but we have no clear ruling, and no precedent to compare to.
I will have to inquire about that later.
I think 36 lands is excessive. We have a low curve, run lots of cantrips, and can run the good mana rocks.
I see that you cut Trinket Mage but kept a sweet package for him. So many juicy targets. That was actually where my head was at before I stated seriously looking at your list.
High initial land count was with the expectation of the deck playing similarly to control builds, coupled with high CMC threats.
I am going to reduce the land count to 34 though, and likely add Grim Monolith & Mana Vault in their place to help with the high CMC finishers. Though with the deck still over by ~10 cards, even that is up for debate. I have reduced the number of high CMC finishers, so they are less necessary than initially expected.
Trinket Mage has six targets, all good but none valuable enough to devote a CMC 3 card to finding. This may go down after final cuts. Spellseeker has fourteen targets, generally higher quality than Trinket Mage but still not spectacular (basically draw effects and other tutors).
I strongly considered both cards, but without evasion allowing them to be easily reused, they are just not worth the slots.
If you want to best abuse 3cmc tutors on bodies, you will want to test out global bounce effects. That's the theory I'm attempting to roll with for the moment, at least. Trinket Mage can also act as ramp in a pinch, and this deck still somewhat needs it. I don't feel trinket is super necessary though (overall lack of versatility if not getting top/solring). Getting 1-2cmc hard tutors is pretty insane on the other hand.
I'm still trying to balance high cmc cards with low cmc functionality. I have a reasonable chance of hitting powerful cards off of blind flips.
I've been looking at other lists and discussions for ideas. Abjure is a hard counter that puts our commander back in her home. Cabal Therapy might be useful, especially if you run Walker of Secret Ways and Gitaxian Probe. It probably becomes better the more competitive your meta is. Innocent Blood is pretty disruptive. I forgot about Spellstutter Sprite from Pauper, but I think it has the potential to be very strong. People tap out all the time in EDH to play their big spells and putting them back a turn for fear of losing it seems great, especially since it can be recurred. It also makes Bitterblossom and Cloud of Faeries better.
Keeper of Keys can add the monarch status to the game and grants can't be blocked to any creatures you have on the field at the start of your upkeep if you have monarch status.
In my Tetsuko deck, Teferi's Veil is an allstar for the small evasive creatures. They want to attck, and with the Veil they are kept safe from most sweepers. Not sure if it's for Yuriko, but might be worth a consideration.
What about Evoke stuff? High CMC, Evoke lets you cast it early and they all have ETB effects that you can abuse if you return them to your hand repeatedly in the event that you can cast them for the non evoke cost.
Any particular reason no one is looking at Swords to give Protection to be able to sneak in Attackers? They also do useful things, are potentially searchable, and can slap it on any of the cheap Attackers we have if needed.. Or is it bad because it can fall off if we Ninjutsu?
And what about Scroll Rack? Seems like it'd be one of the best Cards to use for this Deck..
Also, what about Phyrexian Tower? Can sac Yuriko, get 2Mana to Ninjutsu her again, and also helps if they try to steal Yuriko.
Updated the list with Teferi's Veil, Abjure, and Doomsday (for infinite turn). It's definitely a wincon to continuously reveal expensive turn taking spells to do damage, and continuously taking turns.
A Ninjutsu Attacker doesn't "Attack," so Yuriko/Ninjas won't benefit from Teferi's Veil, but your other Creatures (potentially turned into pseudo-Ninjas via Arcane Adaptation Effect) will be safe.. I wonder how worth it that is.
Any particular reason no one has Cabal Coffers/Stronghold and Urborg in their lists? Seems like it'd be perfect to get the extra Mana needed to cast the bigger Spells, without needing actual Ramp.. Especially if you're including Expedition Map already to find other utility Lands.
Any particular reason no one has Cabal Coffers/Stronghold and Urborg in their lists? Seems like it'd be perfect to get the extra Mana needed to cast the bigger Spells, without needing actual Ramp.. Especially if you're including Expedition Map already to find other utility Lands.
Same reason why I didn't add Demonic Tutor into the list. When I open a brewing thread I tried to add cards that are not staples, because in most cases people would already be using those if they have them.
Cruel Tutor, what about this? It's basically a 3-Mana Sorc-speed Vampiric Tutor, but it may be a better option that Demonic, seeing as how you can setup for Yuriko/Temporal Mastery.
(Also, I didn't see Karn's Temporal Sundering on the main list; I feel like that's probably better than Time Stretch, because I don't see Time Stretch ever really being feasibly castable..)
Anything that exists purely for doing damage when drawn gets cut pretty quickly. Your commander is still a draw engine at the end of the day, so you want to draw relevant stuff, even if you can only cast it some turns later.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
fair enough.
But by that logic, i feel that the eldrazi may not be worth it overall. Kozi, both are worthless if you are already drawing enough cards. Ulamog may be the only one of worth. (plus Ulamog is harder to get rid of than Kozilek.)
If you are unning eldrazi for hard hit, then Draco is right up your alley. If you are looking at card draw, I would cut the eldrzi and focus on getting a lot of little shots in. Whispersilk cloak, Hot soup, Prowler's Helm, Skeleton Key, Trailblazer's Boots Behind the scenes. Just to name a few things that allow your ninjas to hit. Sure it is little shots but it adds up.
Now if you are worried about deck yourself out, then maybe the eldrazi is worth it. at least the original kozi and ulamog as they shuffle back in.
Now if only there was a way to have ninja as be able to do the inverse of Ninjitsu. Cheat a blighsteel into play.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
For my builds at least, I cut the eldrazi very quickly. Why play Ulamog when Commit // Memory does the same damage (and is castable)? Instead, you can run Spellseeker which can get the tutor you need to guarantee that it is on top of your library.
Behind the Scenes is W/B color identity. Most efficient sneak enablers are Cover of Darkness and Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. Shizo is incredible for being a land. Next on my list is actually Writ of Passage. You can forecast it on anything (or if you suspect removal) or you can just cast it on the commander for 1 mana to get easy hits in. It's like a Thassa but you don't have to pay the initial 3 in exchange for not having a scry 1.
In these types of decks, mana constraints are the main obstacles. Try to avoid paying extra for effects when possible.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
The core strategy is very much agro-control. I expect it to play similarly to a slower, more control oriented Edric deck.
I am currently over by 16 cards.
The deck is weighted far more heavily towards blue than I would like, so blue cards will likely be cut first.
The deck runs more creatures than I think is necessary, so creatures will likely be cut first. Starting with the 2 worst ninja's, I think.
The mana base and individual card choices are likely to be adjusted.
In particular, what is the opinion of Damnation vs. Decree of Pain?
Edit: A few specific cards worth mentioning.
Only cyberium has mentioned Gush, with no discussion on it as far as I can see.
Also, no one thought of Blinkmoth Nexus & Inkmoth Nexus?
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Forgot behind the scenes has the +white ability. i remembered playing it on doran and never even thought about the bonus effect (It really was just for skulk.)
too bad too, would have ben great, thanks for pointing t out. if I did not notice it would have gone into my Yuriko build.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I decided to go all in and try to win with Yuriko's abilities. That means: no Eldrazi or other shenanigans, but just play lots of Ninjas, lots of evasion, and some high cmc spells. A lot of the high CMC spells can be cast for cheap alternative costs, so I hopefully don't have to tap out often (many of them have already been mentioned in this tread. Not sure if Beseech the Queen has been mentioned, but it also has cmc 6). I will only be able to test this deck on thursday, but I hope it will live up to my expectation of Edric on steroids. Attack early and often with a bunch of small critters, draw lots of cards, make everybody lose lots of life, and deal with troublesome opponents via an extensive suite of counterspells and removal. I decided to go low on the land count, since I expect to draw a lot of cards and not often miss my land drops. In order to get the most out of Yuriko, I opted to replace some basic lands with mana rocks (special technology: Mistvein Borderpost, which is functionally Dimir Guildgate but with Yuriko synergy). The low land count might come back to haunt me, but what's the fun of brewing commander decks if you can't experiment once in a while.
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
When you literally have no creatures out or in hand and drawing this would be about as impactful as drawing a land? Which is to say drawing a land would not help in that situation either.. More importantly, why did you overextend with ninja enablers then?
This card is 4 mana on turn 3 split between two two-drops. That is huge.. Being able to replay your ninja enabler allows you to follow up with real ninjas or another spell and not lose a turn's worth of attacking. I'll take any card that will enable me to take advantage of as many combat steps as possible and assess the risks of playing it. I think the risk is worth it.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
Can't believe I missed Cursecatcher and Mausoleum Wanderer. Did you consider Spiketail Hatchling? 2cmc, but it hits all kinds of spells. I don't think I've ever actually seen any Force Spike creatures played in EDH, but the psychological chilling effect could be very effective.
Shadowmage Infiltrator is a trap I think. 3cmc is too much to ask for a ninjutsu target unless it does something particularly strong (Spellseeker) and we want Finkel hitting players, but getting ninjutsued out. Likewise, Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni is just too pricy and her on hit doesn't synergize with our game plan that well. 6cmc is nice for draining people but then you have a dead card in your hand.
I think 36 lands is excessive. We have a low curve, run lots of cantrips, and can run the good mana rocks.
I see that you cut Trinket Mage but kept a sweet package for him. So many juicy targets. That was actually where my head was at before I stated seriously looking at your list.
I think Decree of Pain is a greedy choice. Yes, it does quite a bit of damage on a Yuriko flip, but Damnation's reasonable casting cost will reliably save us from a nasty board when Decree can rot in your hand. Yes, you can cycle Decree, but very rarely will that solve your problems.
Tough call. Gush is obviously a powerful Magic card but I'm a little concerned about having to return the lands in this deck. In a combo deck where you win on the turn you Gush, it doesn't matter, but should we whiff it sets us back two turns of mana production. It's definitely worth testing but I don't know where to make the cuts.
These are obvious additions and I'm ashamed I didn't think of them. In a similar vein Faerie Conclave could be a desperation ninjutsu target, but 2 mana (and a stunted land drop) to activate it is rough.
re: Mox Amber: It's certainly worth testing. I'm not going to be able to play for awhile so I can't test it myself, but I think it shows a lot of promise. With a quarter of the deck dedicated to evasive weenies getting our commander into play is trivial and free mana is, well, free mana. It's an excellent post combat main phase drop to redeploy the creature we ninjutsued up and
Has anyone had trouble getting their graveyard big enough to make the huge delve spells reliably castable?
Dark Petition seems like a great tutor here. CasualCalamity1 brought up Beseech the Queen, but I think that card is unplayable outside of mono-black. Petition hits for one less, but is more likely to be cast and refunds most of its cost. Similarly, maybe Liliana Vess?
Also, "ninja enabler" is probably my favorite Magic term now.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
I haven't seen it in a real game yet, but this deck flips Dowsing Dagger very easily and it being a land makes it worth not getting an extra draw in sometimes. This deck still wants to hit its land drops to get to its endgame.
I'm still debating on if I want to run Looter il-Kor or Slither Blade. The looter does have a nice effect when we have no ninja to sneak out but I wonder how often I really need it. 1 cmc ninja enabler is a massive difference from 2.
Decree of Pain is very greedy. I'm debating on if I even want to run cheap mass bounce over Toxic Deluge. All is Dust may not even stay in the deck and I have it in there as insurance against cards that I would not be able to otherwise beat.
I plan on running Bitterblossom as the 1/1 tokens are essentially free enablers and allow me to be far more liberal with saccing Yuriko to various effects. They also chump pretty well and can perform light pressure in a pinch.
As for the delve cards, I think the deck could use a little bit more help fueling the mechanic. It often is at its best when you're recovering from a board wipe (because you aren't getting back the creatures anyway)
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
If it came to a one drop I would go with Hypnotic Siren over Slither Blade, since it can be used to steal an opponent's creature late game.
Wharf Infiltrator might be something to look into compared to Looter il-Kor. Skulk is weaker than Shadow but the the chance to sink 2 mana for a 3/2 token can help.
Briefly. Not good enough.
The only reason I still have Cursecatcher & Siren Stormtamer listed is that they can attack on turn 2. With seven such cards, Yuriko will hit on turn 2 ~45% of the games.
3 mana is a lot to pay for a Ninjitsu enabler. That is why I currently list only 2; each of which is a strong card on its own. I do admit that Shadowmage Infiltrator is probably one of the weaker cards, it is still a strong effect that can be a Ninjitsu enabler if needed, but is not included for that reason alone.
I do still need to make cuts, so maybe it will get pulled anyway.
I want eight 'native' Ninja's in the deck. Ink-Eyes is actually a place holder for Masterful Ninja, which would be swapped out for either Ink-Eyes or Silent-Blade Oni if players in any particular group complains - most people in my area are fine with Un-set cards so long as they do not require 'un rules' to work, even if no one has actually used any yet (Masterful Ninja is admittedly borderline, but there is reason to believe the Comprehensive Rules could support a card being in multiple zones simultaneously, unlike tracking spoken words or throwing cards).
Ultimately I decided the single color and reduced cost of Ink-Eyes made it a better option than Silent-Blade, but I may revisit that decision after play testing.
(On the subject of Masterful Ninja, that is probably the single strongest enabler for Yuriko available, despite not having evasion, provided your group allows it).
Edit: After thinking about it more, Masterful Ninja is either a far stronger enabler than I had thought, or doesn't enable her at all (still worth playing though).
This depends on if moving the Ninja to your hand effectively does nothing (stay a on the battlefield attacking), or if it is an impossible action (cannot be used to pay Ninjitsu costs). I suspect the latter, but we have no clear ruling, and no precedent to compare to.
I will have to inquire about that later.
High initial land count was with the expectation of the deck playing similarly to control builds, coupled with high CMC threats.
I am going to reduce the land count to 34 though, and likely add Grim Monolith & Mana Vault in their place to help with the high CMC finishers. Though with the deck still over by ~10 cards, even that is up for debate. I have reduced the number of high CMC finishers, so they are less necessary than initially expected.
Trinket Mage has six targets, all good but none valuable enough to devote a CMC 3 card to finding. This may go down after final cuts.
Spellseeker has fourteen targets, generally higher quality than Trinket Mage but still not spectacular (basically draw effects and other tutors).
I strongly considered both cards, but without evasion allowing them to be easily reused, they are just not worth the slots.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
I'm still trying to balance high cmc cards with low cmc functionality. I have a reasonable chance of hitting powerful cards off of blind flips.
I'd agree that Spiketail Hatchling wouldn't make the cut.
I think the only way to realistically look at the deck is a slower Edric deck with its own built-in win condition.
The Unidentified Fantastic Flying Girl.
EDH
Xenagos, the God of Stompy
The Gitrog Monster: Oppressive Value.
Marchesa, Marionette Master - Undying Robots
Yuriko, the Hydra Omnivore
I make dolls as a hobby.
What about a Doomsday setup with Nexus of Fate/Beacon of Tomorrows?
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
And what about Scroll Rack? Seems like it'd be one of the best Cards to use for this Deck..
Also, what about Phyrexian Tower? Can sac Yuriko, get 2Mana to Ninjutsu her again, and also helps if they try to steal Yuriko.
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
Phyrexian Tower and Scroll Rack are both listed in the original post of the thread.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Any particular reason no one has Cabal Coffers/Stronghold and Urborg in their lists? Seems like it'd be perfect to get the extra Mana needed to cast the bigger Spells, without needing actual Ramp.. Especially if you're including Expedition Map already to find other utility Lands.
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)
Same reason why I didn't add Demonic Tutor into the list. When I open a brewing thread I tried to add cards that are not staples, because in most cases people would already be using those if they have them.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
(Also, I didn't see Karn's Temporal Sundering on the main list; I feel like that's probably better than Time Stretch, because I don't see Time Stretch ever really being feasibly castable..)
URG Riku: - (Deck List) (Retired, but should probably bring it back.. I need a more casual deck)
BGU Muldrotha: - (Deck List)
UB Yuriko: - (Deck List)
UR Zndrsplt/Okaun - (Deck List)
G Seton: - (Deck List)
RGW Uril: - (Deck List)
GU Vannifar: - (Deck List) (My main)
WUBRG Alara: - (Deck List)
UBR Tresserhorn: - (Deck List)
RW Feather: - (Deck List)