Play weenie Grixis BRU, if he's using weenie decks like Grenzo, SIsay, and Meriek... I ran a pretty strong Tetsuo Umezawa (although you could use whatever), and it was just low curve "attrition"-- lots of ETB removal (feshbag, Man'O War, flametongue kavu, Fire Imp, Duplicant, Shriekmaw) but also low curve acceleration and utility cards like Trinket Mage, kite, Imperial Recruiter, Solemn, Mulldrifter etc. Basically how I won was play my hand out faster and accelerate faster, use tutors/wheels/time spirals to reset and keep going. Then the win condition I'd have Time Walks/Archaomancer, or Recruiter-->Kikki-->Pestermite to win on spot, but also things like Goblin Bombardment/Gravepact or Curse of the Cabal or Vicious Shadows and more "tactical" seal the win cards.
I feel this would be effective because the way to beat control like that is to just play faster than them and pressure them with a ton of removal, like every card you play should be quick and generate fast CA or should etb and pressure them. Even playing a tutor or Recruiter to get a Viashino Heretic shutting down his artfacts can lock ppl out all game... sometimes ppl try to think big bombs in order to counter a strategy but sometimes its little utility creatures that can shut ppl out of games, for example I think I've probably won more games off Gravepact or Goblin Bombardment than almost any other huge bomb cards.
You’ve mentioned the commanders he plays, but what methods does he use to win across his decks? Swarm? Commander damage? Life drain? If there is an overarching theme to his decks, go off that. If it’s mostly creature-based wins, things like pillowfort, sweepers.dec and threaten/control magic effects could be possibilities. I personally like Nin, the Pain Artist for the threaten route. I’ve also been wanting to make a Sen Triplets “steal your deck” deck for a while now, which would allow you to play all his own decks against him (to give him a taste of his own medicine).
all i can see is that every commander he uses is build around. present him with a storm of creature steal effect of morph effect (darksteel mutation and lignify for example) with your own counterspells as a backup.
there is no way he would consistently win when 2v1 right from the start and when you're gunning for him from the deckbuilding.
there is no way he would consistently win when 2v1 right from the start and when you're gunning for him from the deckbuilding.
Maybe it's the other opponent who doesn't quite play the way he should. Another thing is that we don't just want to gang up on him in every game, which would obviously cause him to become frustrated. He's still a good guy and I don't want to lose him like that.
Since I started this thread, I have made new decks while slowly adapting the others and the outcome is more promising. Last week, I had a great game with Teneb, however I was teamed with that player in a 2HG game so I cannot really count that victory yet. He has also provided some tips which revealed some deckbuilding flaws I had. So now, thanks to him (funny enough, given the circumstances) and your multiple comments, I think I will begin winning more games. I will post more on this in an upcoming update, in a few weeks.
I got my ass handed over to me by this same guy, who targeted me since the start of the game (I had Daxos, he had Zedruu, other player had Rashmi). I spent most of the game doing little but watching him play castrating enchantments and stealing our stuff. It was not a pleasant game to say the least.
So now I decided to build a deck with MLD, wrath spells and Zurgo as the commander. I will use mana rocks to compensate the loss of lands, I already have a draft in construction. Which cards would you suggest (keep it under 10$)? It's the creatures that I wonder about, not sure what really works well. I don't want to use a stax strategy.
^ agreed, if someone is playing a meme commander like Zedru and crushing you your deck is just too slow and lacks removal. Play Animar or maybe Mathas, Fiend Seeker mid range and just beat him down. If he’s gaining control of stuff... SAC OUTLETS my man, get sac lands, sac enchantments, sac everything I’m telling you. Play dirty, use contamination/blood moon and build around it, use Grave Pact, more rocks and removal and play faster. Usually the best players accelerate faster have most tutors and more answers. Again I don’t know this guy but I’d play something like Mathas targeting his guys and politically beat him down while rest of guys draw off whooping his stuffs arse and he doesn’t that’s prolly how I’d do this. Because I’m guessing this dude plays dirty, like Captain Sissay into Gaeas Cradle Avenger of Z dirty... u will never beat those decks playing “fair” and slow with bombs.
If it's just theft...Homeward Path goes a long, long way. Protect it with Crucible and Ramunap Excavator. There's also Brooding Saurian which makes it practically impossible to to use theft effects even the slightest bit profitably. Gruul Charm is out of nowhere and isn't completely dead (it at least lets you alpha someone).
Sometimes, all it takes is a Despotic Scepter and Claws of Gix to completely blank their theft spells (who wants to commit mana and cards into those?)
If it's just theft...Homeward Path goes a long, long way. Protect it with Crucible and Ramunap Excavator. There's also Brooding Saurian which makes it practically impossible to to use theft effects even the slightest bit profitably. Gruul Charm is out of nowhere and isn't completely dead (it at least lets you alpha someone).
There's also Brand which you can cycle if there isn't theft running around.
In the spirit of discussion (not to be too argumentative), I actually disagree with cards like Brand & Homeward Path-- I mean, definitely run them if you're gonna meta someone really bad, but I'm just saying I think they're still subpar options...
They're subpar because they're not only narrow in JUST dealing with the "theft cards" (whereas sac outlets and bounce stuff can be universally useful in many situations), but also I don't think they're even good at dealing with most steal spells (with exception of maybe Insurrection) because... I used to play Zedruu and grixis Threaten/Theft decks all the time and 99% of the time your opponent will have sac outlets themselves after then gain control of it. Casting something like Brand they'll just City of Shadows exile it or some shenanigans like that.
Personally I think cards like: Erratic Portal, Crystal Shard, Goblin Bombardment, Evolutionary Leap, Greater Good, Viscera Seer, Claws of Gix and stuff like that are more universally better to protect your board.
Ok I'm back, and now I am super pissed!
I got my ass handed over to me by this same guy, who targeted me since the start of the game (I had Daxos, he had Zedruu, other player had Rashmi). I spent most of the game doing little but watching him play castrating enchantments and stealing our stuff. It was not a pleasant game to say the least.
Can't you just not play with him? Otherwise it sounds like your entering a battle of brinksmanship.
"Mr. President, we must not allow a mineshaft gap!"
Here's my Zurgo list. Its strong but certainly not cEDH level of strong. Many good cards have cheaper alternatives.
Wheel of Fortune
Champion's Helm
Marsh Flats
Damnation
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Bloodstained Mire
Arena Rector
Tree of Perdition
Path to Exile
Wrath of God
Inspiring Vantage
Liliana Vess
Nahiri, the Harbinger
Master of Cruelties
Aurelia, the Warleader
Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Homeward Path
Austere Command
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Isolated Chapel
Westvale Abbey
Thespian's Stage
Sol Ring
Temple of Malice
Dragonskull Summit
Smoldering Marsh
Canyon Slough
Duelist's Heritage
Mirage Mirror
Clifftop Retreat
Power Matrix
Zurgo Helmsmasher
Battlefield Forge
Life's Finale
Never // Return
Seal of Cleansing
Ob Nixilis Reignited
Dark Petition
World at War
Boros Charm
Utter End
Obliterate
Temple of Silence
Authority of the Consuls
Fellwar Stone
Sunbird's Invocation
Command Tower
Deflecting Palm
Temple of Triumph
Blind Obedience
Caves of Koilos
Revel in Riches
Legion's Initiative
Akroma's Vengeance
Swiftfoot Boots
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Star of Extinction
Cascading Cataracts
Worldslayer
Orzhov Guildgate
Tainted Field
Spinerock Knoll
Rakdos Signet
Darksteel Ingot
Last One Standing
Darksteel Citadel
Wind-Scarred Crag
Opal Palace
Declaration in Stone
Chandra's Ignition
Fumigate
Orzhov Basilica
Ashes of the Abhorrent
Orzhov Signet
Nomad Outpost
Insult // Injury
Rakdos Charm
Citadel Siege
Painful Truths
Temur Battle Rage
Drownyard Temple
Rogue's Passage
Mob Rule
Key to the City
Hot Soup
Forsake the Worldly
Onward // Victory
Jokulhaups
Anguished Unmaking
Thanks for your Zurgo list, it has given me some ideas.
I finally played my Zurgo deck last night and won both games. It worked like a charm, beyond my wildest expectations! I have to admit, though, that my infamous friend which prompted this entire thread did not play in these 2 games... I can't wait to test my deck against him and see how it fares!
Honestly after looking over this pile... Gaddock Teeg for sure. Control players absolutely get tilted when he keeps getting replayed and their hand keeps filling with expensive cards they can't play.
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I feel this would be effective because the way to beat control like that is to just play faster than them and pressure them with a ton of removal, like every card you play should be quick and generate fast CA or should etb and pressure them. Even playing a tutor or Recruiter to get a Viashino Heretic shutting down his artfacts can lock ppl out all game... sometimes ppl try to think big bombs in order to counter a strategy but sometimes its little utility creatures that can shut ppl out of games, for example I think I've probably won more games off Gravepact or Goblin Bombardment than almost any other huge bomb cards.
there is no way he would consistently win when 2v1 right from the start and when you're gunning for him from the deckbuilding.
Since I started this thread, I have made new decks while slowly adapting the others and the outcome is more promising. Last week, I had a great game with Teneb, however I was teamed with that player in a 2HG game so I cannot really count that victory yet. He has also provided some tips which revealed some deckbuilding flaws I had. So now, thanks to him (funny enough, given the circumstances) and your multiple comments, I think I will begin winning more games. I will post more on this in an upcoming update, in a few weeks.
I got my ass handed over to me by this same guy, who targeted me since the start of the game (I had Daxos, he had Zedruu, other player had Rashmi). I spent most of the game doing little but watching him play castrating enchantments and stealing our stuff. It was not a pleasant game to say the least.
So now I decided to build a deck with MLD, wrath spells and Zurgo as the commander. I will use mana rocks to compensate the loss of lands, I already have a draft in construction. Which cards would you suggest (keep it under 10$)? It's the creatures that I wonder about, not sure what really works well. I don't want to use a stax strategy.
Thanks for helping a depressed fellow edh player!
Sometimes, all it takes is a Despotic Scepter and Claws of Gix to completely blank their theft spells (who wants to commit mana and cards into those?)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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They're subpar because they're not only narrow in JUST dealing with the "theft cards" (whereas sac outlets and bounce stuff can be universally useful in many situations), but also I don't think they're even good at dealing with most steal spells (with exception of maybe Insurrection) because... I used to play Zedruu and grixis Threaten/Theft decks all the time and 99% of the time your opponent will have sac outlets themselves after then gain control of it. Casting something like Brand they'll just City of Shadows exile it or some shenanigans like that.
Personally I think cards like: Erratic Portal, Crystal Shard, Goblin Bombardment, Evolutionary Leap, Greater Good, Viscera Seer, Claws of Gix and stuff like that are more universally better to protect your board.
"Mr. President, we must not allow a mineshaft gap!"
Bruse Tarl & Kraum, Ludevic's Opus
Mayael the Anima
Wheel of Fortune
Champion's Helm
Marsh Flats
Damnation
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Bloodstained Mire
Arena Rector
Tree of Perdition
Path to Exile
Wrath of God
Inspiring Vantage
Liliana Vess
Nahiri, the Harbinger
Master of Cruelties
Aurelia, the Warleader
Sorin, Grim Nemesis
Homeward Path
Austere Command
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Isolated Chapel
Westvale Abbey
Thespian's Stage
Sol Ring
Temple of Malice
Dragonskull Summit
Smoldering Marsh
Canyon Slough
Duelist's Heritage
Mirage Mirror
Clifftop Retreat
Power Matrix
Zurgo Helmsmasher
Battlefield Forge
Life's Finale
Never // Return
Seal of Cleansing
Ob Nixilis Reignited
Dark Petition
World at War
Boros Charm
Utter End
Obliterate
Temple of Silence
Authority of the Consuls
Fellwar Stone
Sunbird's Invocation
Command Tower
Deflecting Palm
Temple of Triumph
Blind Obedience
Caves of Koilos
Revel in Riches
Legion's Initiative
Akroma's Vengeance
Swiftfoot Boots
Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
Star of Extinction
Cascading Cataracts
Worldslayer
Orzhov Guildgate
Tainted Field
Spinerock Knoll
Rakdos Signet
Darksteel Ingot
Last One Standing
Darksteel Citadel
Wind-Scarred Crag
Opal Palace
Declaration in Stone
Chandra's Ignition
Fumigate
Orzhov Basilica
Ashes of the Abhorrent
Orzhov Signet
Nomad Outpost
Insult // Injury
Rakdos Charm
Citadel Siege
Painful Truths
Temur Battle Rage
Drownyard Temple
Rogue's Passage
Mob Rule
Key to the City
Hot Soup
Forsake the Worldly
Onward // Victory
Jokulhaups
Anguished Unmaking
I finally played my Zurgo deck last night and won both games. It worked like a charm, beyond my wildest expectations! I have to admit, though, that my infamous friend which prompted this entire thread did not play in these 2 games... I can't wait to test my deck against him and see how it fares!
I will provide more feedback on the matter.
Have a nice day!