I'm actually pretty tired of getting targeted right away in games. Playing Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith I have even been in a situation once where I had nothing but lands in play, had missed a few land drops, finally got enough lands out to cast Zendikar Resurgent. There were a couple good artifacts in play, along with a Voltaic Key. My Zendikar Resurgent would have pretty much put me even in mana, finally putting me in a somewhat good position, and it gets disenchanted, instead of the other stuff that seemed in my mind to be higher priority targets. That next turn, I put out Nazahn, and he gets countered. I scooped and switched tables because I saw no point in playing if I wasn't going to be allowed to even play. This is one example of many. I've started to take it personally, and I really need a deck that's not going to get me targeted until I'm actually a proper threat. Maelstrom Wanderer looks like a really good time, and I will likely build it at some point, but I want a deck I can switch to in situations when I'm just sick and tired of getting beaten down every time I put something of value on the table, sometimes even before that. I'm building Archangel Avacyn, and that could be the deck to play in such situations.
Or is it not going to matter? Am I just going to be targeted anyway because I'm the only woman at the table, or new, or some other equally stupid reason? I've messaged with someone some on ways of helping me in how I play politically, namely, not saying much unless it really matters, but is there also a way to play aggro or somewhat aggro and only really draw fire from the person I'm going after, or perhaps play a deck that waits until the time is right and people have been weakened, and then go for the kill?
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If they target you because tou are a woman, that is thwir problem and i would question a lot about them.
If they see your deck as a threat then Maybe a change would be best. When I played.arcum I had similar problems. But eventually got to a 4 turn clock (had to keep upgrading)
You could try upgrading the Dr lot maybe lower your curve. Or switch decks (I built eryao to show that my arcum deck was not so bad)), then erayo got banned. I built Leovold, Leovold got banned...)
You could build a meaner deck so they see your deck less threatening when you pull it out (but that may bring grudges to the table)
I say build a swarm deck. Squirrels is fun. But you can also do elves, goblins, merfolk, zombies, soldiers.
Or of you ha e the cash. Stop caring altogether. Build a 10k deck and stop letting them play magic. Pull it out when you are having a night when you are feeling singled out for no reason .
I don't see either of those plays as picking on you necessarily. Depending on how many cards are in your hand, that Zendikar Resurgent could very well have been the biggest threat on the table, and other players might not want you to untap with it. Also, countering your commander is a 2-for-1 that stops your deck from doing what it's designed to (equipping for free).
Maybe you were a bigger threat at the time than you thought, or were at least representing an imminent threat with Zendikar Resurgent.
I have no idea who these other players are and if they really are focusing on you due to gender that's lame and I don't blame you for not playing with them. What I'm saying is that depending on the board state they might have had a perfectly valid reason to target you.
I'm on a budget and I already have two decks in the works. Archangel Avacyn and Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith. I'm building decks gradually because I'm disabled and only have around $50USD a month to spend on cards. I love cats and I love squirrels, so I figure I can have a cat general leading squirrels and other types of tokens with good token support and proliferate cards. I'd splurge on a few expensive cards like Elspeth Tirel and Parallel Lives because they're kinda auto-includes in a token deck, but I'm generally looking for something that a bare skeleton that's playable and at least somewhat good can be built cheaply, and then I can go back and upgrade as finances allow.
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"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
I actually did ask in that situation, I asked why my stuff was getting targeted when I had literally nothing else. The answer I got basically amounted to "Why not?". I've talked to someone on the forums here in PMs about this, and they told me I should stick with it, because the only way they are going to get used to a differing presence is if I stick around. I was just really frustrated that both things I played that game got dealt with instantly. The only thing worse would have been if someone had also destroyed my bounce land. I've done that too, JDviant. Someone in the group plays Mairsil, the Pretender, and when in doubt, I attack him because I'm quite afraid of Mairsil's ability to enable combos that can't really be stopped once you get to a certain point in the game. I've told him that his commander scares me, and I'd consider him a threat always, unless someone has done something like totally neutralize Mairsil or has stolen Mairsil. I told him if he doesn't want me to attack him more than other people he needs to bring a different deck. I don't consider playing Marisil to be fair in a causal group.
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"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
Sometimes it's more than 2-for-1 because I'm very likely to pick Blade of Selves with my first Nazahn, and then attack, creating tokens, more ETB triggers, and using them to grab Swiftfoot Boots, Hammer of Nazahn, and whatever else I think might help, like maybe an Argentum Armor or Loxodon Hammer. The people in my group knows this is my general MO, so that may be part of it. It still felt terrible to have EVERYTHING I did countered, so I decided it wasn't worth playing any longer.
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"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
Multiplayer politics are tricky but can be fun. It may take a while to peg down why they are focusing on you.
- Do you tend to win more games than statistically likely? i.e. - Are you winning 25% of four-player games, or something more like 50%? If you win more often than everyone else, you are The Threat and will be targeted.
- Are the people you play with super salty and carry grudges from one game to the next?
- When they focus on you are they doing it because they fell like they must to prevent you from winning? Or are they doing it because it doesn't hurt them and they get in "free damage"?
- Even if you don't have the best board at the time, do you have a history of explosive end-games?
- You mentioned playing aggro - are you drawing first blood?
My go-to advice for multiplayer politics is the following:
- Be enough of a threat that no one wants to waste resources going after you, but not enough of a threat that they HAVE to go after you.
- If players are making bad threat assessment (going after you when someone else is clearly more of a threat), try to talk them around to your point of view.
- If they ignore the previous advice, tell them that you will send everything you have at the first player who hits you without justification, that you will quit trying to win and just go into Punisher mode. Then follow through, sending all removal at them, all attacks at them. It only takes a game or two before they think twice about hitting you.
- Try not to draw first blood. Build a board that is defensive and wait for someone else to draw first blood. Then go on the offense.
You asked if it was because you are the only woman at the table, and unfortunately, this is where I can't be helpful. I don't know the people you play with. If that's their reason, they're idiots, and I feel sorry for you. I can tell you we only have one female who plays regularly at our LGS, but I don't think I've ever seen her targetted just because she's a girl. Usually it's because she has the most broken board and we're all going to lose if we don't target her.
Well, at this point I've played around 35 games and have never won. There's only been one game where I've had any endgame that was really threatening (a 15+ power commander with double strike and trample), and in that game I wasn't even able to kill a single opponent because he was stolen and then came back to me tapped, so I had no blockers and then got killed when a person I had made a deal with broke his word and attacked anyway. I've been the first person to die in a good number of those games. My first deck was Kaalia of the Vast before I knew of her reputation. I currently play Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith, who looks threatening, but is not as threatening as some of the other people in the group (The Scarab God, Dragonlord Ojutai, Mairsil the Pretender, Zacama, Primal Calamity). I WANT to be that person, the person where.. they don't need to kill me right away, but nobody wants to "poke the bear", but I don't seem to ever get there. Sometimes I get first blood. I always did with Kaalia, because you kind of have to in order to build your board, but with Nazahn, I usually wait until I get him out and get a Blade of Selves on him so I can start piling on the equipment before I do anything. The only reason I can think of for them targeting me is hazing, or as "punishment" for playing Kaalia in the past, one of the most hated generals in the game.
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"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
Reading up to this point, it sounds to me that you're in a pretty sour meta: Zendikar Resurgent and trying to get Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith down to tutor an equipment isn't nothing, but I agree that it likely wouldn't be the most threatening or degenerate thing especially if tuned The Scarab God, Mairsil, the Pretender, and Zacama, Primal Calamity decks are on the table. Is your deck mostly voltron? That could explain why your key pieces were targeted if they knew that was your strategy (the "take out their only real threat to keep them in check" mentality). Not saying I agree with it, but just trying to throw in more thought for possibility. If you are mostly voltron, would you be open to thinking about spreading your threats out by adding some more creatures to equip and attack with? I guess they could be holding onto some sentiments from when you were running Kaalia of the Vast, but that should shake off pretty quickly once they realize your Nazahn deck isn't built the same way.
I agree that playing into politics can get you pretty far in some games, so try to play into that. I know I've won plenty of games where I had absolutely no business winning just because I played some key politics at crucial times.
I know it's not the easiest thing to do, but is finding a new/different regular playgroup a possibility? Sometimes, some metas and playgroups are just "that way" and may be more competitive than a player had in mind. Plus, a new group likely won't know of your Kaalia transgressions.
Nazahn is a good commander that can lead a good deck with a couple different strategies, but I personally wouldn't expect anything more busted than Mairsil or Zacama, certainly, so I do find your explanation of events peculiar and would put me off to the table as well if I were in your shoes. Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist tokens actually sounds like a lot of fun. WG put you in great colors for tokens and swarm, and there could be really cool tribal stuff to add in support of squirrels. Plus, it's fun to imagine killing an opponent with a swarm of rabid little cheeky-faced furry squirrels. Pro tip: if you start brewing this, put Earthcraft on the $ upgrades list for the future since it can create infinite squirrel tokens with Squirrel Nest, and be sure to use the Conspiracy copy of Nest for the awesome flavor text.
I'm on a budget and I already have two decks in the works. Archangel Avacyn and Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith. I'm building decks gradually because I'm disabled and only have around $50USD a month to spend on cards. I love cats and I love squirrels, so I figure I can have a cat general leading squirrels and other types of tokens with good token support and proliferate cards. I'd splurge on a few expensive cards like Elspeth Tirel and Parallel Lives because they're kinda auto-includes in a token deck, but I'm generally looking for something that a bare skeleton that's playable and at least somewhat good can be built cheaply, and then I can go back and upgrade as finances allow.
Also (while it is not really needed.) With opalescence, Dual nature you can actually turn those toen doublers into a finite number of creatures, that surpassed the amount of particle in the known universe. (it requires a bit of set up but once you pull it off ou have so may tokens you may as well be infinite. Find a way to give them haste and bingo. (without a form of fog they die now)
For your second deck, another one that will is the rare quest cycle from Zendikar. Pyromancer Ascension is worthless in Commander, but the other four?
Luminarch Ascension because cheap 4/4 flying tokens aren't a problem. (And fortunately, it's the easiest to stop. Just make your opponent lose 1 life every turn.) Archmage Ascension is pretty much an easy way to draw into a combo, once you draw two cards a turn for six turns. (Which is easier than it looks: A bunch of cards give you an extra card at the beginning of your upkeep, or you can just run Invisible Stalker with something to give it the Curiosity ability, anything at all. On opponents' turns, all you need is instants that draw cards, or permanents that draw cards as an activated ability like Sphinx of Magosi.) Bloodchief Ascension has a few combos, including an infinite combo. It's another one that makes opponents focus on you just because of what you have to do. And it's also easy to work off of, with the right cards. (Damage doublers are useful here. Anything with extort can also work, or instants that do damage or cause life loss.) Actually, Nekusar decks, in four-player pods, can just bring it out one turn and then do what they do next turn.
Which brings Beastmaster Ascension. Turns out a blanket +5/+5 to all your creatures is a huge deal. It turns a little saproling token into something titan-size. It basically blanks most red removal (though it does make you vulnerable to Reprisal effects). And...having nothing smaller than a 6/6 makes you a huge threat. Most players only drop it after they're ready to alpha strike with 7+ creatures (or 4+ and Doubling Season does the rest.) because, frankly, no one is going to let you live the minute you drop a rare quest unless you prepare for it.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I have a non-threatening vorthos build based off of the movie/book Dune. I was getting pummeled so badly by my closest friends I actually broke it up for some months, even after a couple rounds of modification. But I finally got my first win after a third round of mods, adjusting to the group, adding threats and hard answers more effective versus shroud and voltron builds. Do you just need to add some answers that will punish folks for going after you without getting into arguments? It may be they know you’re not packing stuff that they can be counter-attacked and wrecked in response by and someone has to get knocked out first. The whole idea is to take the heat off so you have a chance to stabilize and convince them that you’re not the right person for that first kill.
To that end, my commander is Hazezon Tamar, who is much more effective late game when I get a horde of sand warriors after other hands are empty of commander killing spells. If your colors are appropriate, good go-wide spells are: Descent of the Dragons, Warstorm Surge, Biomass Mutation, Mirror Entity, Pennon Blade, Sword of the Paruns, Devout Invocation, Insurrection, Retribution of the Meek, etc, and they are all decently budget. I guess where I’m going is if you look like a target, you will get targeted. If you can adjust and they learn you won’t go down without wrecking them, then maybe you can stick to your guns as others have mentioned.
Now, everything said applies to decks that don’t win within six turns. If you are in one of THOSE groups, well, good luck. That’s part of whyI don’t play in stores.
The Mairsil, the Pretender deck is pretty degenerate and can win within six turns, and the Dragonlord Ojutai deck can take so many extra turns that they can take at least one person out of the game before there is much chance to respond. Add a Cyclonic Rift and a way to give Ojutai vigilance to the mix for even worse shenanigans. You may well be on your sixth turn, but the Ojutai player could be on his 10th or so. Those two decks coming into the meta have made the game less fun, and I was already having less fun than I could have because of being focused and having never won a game. Granted, there was one game I could have won had I taken out the infect player first instead of the Zacama player, but assessing threat in that situation was difficult because they both looked pretty scary to me.
Like other people have said, in a meta like mine with multiple other decks that are larger threats than my Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith deck I don't see why I'm getting taken out first. DirkGently, I think his name is, has pointed out that people tend to be bad at threat assessment, and I may be falling victim to that. Otherwise, the only other reason I can think of is prejudice or some kind of hazing for daring to play Kaalia of the Vast, or daring to *gasp* be female, or LGBT, or whatever else that's different about me that they want to single me out for. I sincerely hope it's just bad threat assessment, so I'll assume the best and give the benefit of the doubt until I know more. Part of me does feel like bringing out Kaalia again, throwing all social graces out the window, playing mass land destruction, and wrecking some dreams, but I don't want to stoop to the level of the very mean and obnoxious guy who plays a very degenerate combo Mairsil deck in a group that isn't explicitly supposed to be competitive. He and the Ojutai player have made a meta that is already a bit more competitive than I was hoping for into one where all of the sudden I need to be able to answer a fifth turn combo win or a Voltron threat that can do lethal commander damage to at least one person early.
So then I guess you have to judge the meta a bit. If they are fun to hang out with, maybe see if the rest of the group feels the same about those two decks wrecking the meta vibe. A group request to temper the constant use of those decks by bringing other offerings along with them might help fix things. I could sit here and call the Mairsil player a jerk or worse, but I don’t know him, and if the group is fine with their level of play, you might have to find a different group. And if they truly are jerks, would you want to play there anyway? Tough call either way. Good luck, hoping the best for you.
Well, I already wasn't having much fun before Mairsil and Ojutai showed up in our meta. The Mairsil player has already expressed that he doesn't have another deck and has no intent to build another. From what I've seen, he doesn't seem to show any empathy. Only three people in the store asked why I was crying the day he went back on an agreement we'd made and shook on. He commented after I expressed some sadness that that was why "women shouldn't play Magic"... so I strongly doubt his empathy chip is working. I would so love to drop a Darksteel Mutation on his commander, or an Overwhelming Splendor on him or a Suppression Field and laugh. The first two would be more emotionally satisfying, because it says, "Screw you in particular." I don't normally get this way. Usually I'm agreeable, introverted, helpful, and kinda passive, but this situation really has me wanting to be a ***** to him. The situation has kinda brought out the worst in me lately, and I hope that changes.
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"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
when they do attack you. are you the only defenceless player?
if one person is going off on turn 6 and people are letting him go unopposed ask the other two players if they enjoy losing also. this is where the politics game comes in.
it does seem like you play decks that can accidentally win which is why I would not play maelstrom wanderer. token shenanigans with trostrani might work as trostrani isn't a huge threat.
Well, I have yet to win, accidentally or otherwise. The paranoid part of me says that maybe some of the people in the group don't want me to ever win, but the rational skeptic in me says that everyone wants for themselves to win as much as anyone else and that my goal of winning my share of games is at cross purposes with their goal to do the same. I just know that me, a player who I'd say is roughly average skill using a deck that is budget and not tuned as well as it could be stands very little chance of winning if I'm constantly, as I've said before, like the Archenemy playing without the benefit of a schemes deck against people who I assume are my skill level or greater using much better decks. Like I've said, I'm not a Spike, my primary joy in playing the game doesn't come in winning, but in having a fun social game where I occasionally get to feel powerful doing something like smashing face with a large creature or a swarm of smaller ones, or making a play that helps someone else take out a threat. I also like to see a deck I've built working like I intended it to. I'd be thrilled if I could be winning even 20% of the 4 player games I'm in. Heck, my first win will be pretty glorious.
I've run afoul socially in some way, likely in the political aspect of multiplayer, and possibly in other areas. I just see things playing out like they did in my childhood for me. I was freakishly tall, overweight, nerdy, and got along better with my teachers than with the other students, so I was ignored or worse by most people. I just want friends, which I have a severe shortage of. It really warms my heart that people on these boards have been so nice to me. I really wish you folks would have been my play group instead of who I'm currently playing with.
As for being the only defenseless player, sometimes I am, sometimes the Mairsil player is sitting there with nothing but mana rocks and possibly a commander with an ability or two stapled to it. Sometimes someone else is manascrewed too. There doesn't seem to be a pattern as far as them attacking me when I'm the only weak player, sometimes there are others, and very occasionally I'm left alone for a while until I put something of value down... but even then, I feel other people have more things of value, or one thing that is an imminent threat down, and I still don't usually get a break. Maybe my past experiences in school are coloring what I'm seeing now, I'll freely admit that. I'm still puzzled, but social situations in general tend to puzzle me. I'm disabled, and spend so much time indoors on my computer that I'm much better at text socializing than I am at in person socializing.
I was thinking Rhys, but honestly I think that Mirri will be seen as less of an immediate threat and is still powerful. Also, lots of people have Rhys token decks. How many people have Mirri token decks?
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"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
Sexism aside, there are definitely people that think they solved the format because they built a powerful deck and think everyone else just needs to git gud. I think of them as lvl 2 scrubs - they understand how to play, but they understand nothing about why to play. Sounds like you might have a bad case of those going around. In which case the best solution might be finding a different group. I don't think bringing in a more powerful deck is going to help their attitudes - it might give you a better chance of winning, but I'd be loathe to pour more money into attempting to have fun in what sounds like a miserable environment.
Try meetup, try facebook, ask your LGSs...you might be able to find something more amenable.
If you do just want to win, probably take the easy way out and play teferi + knowledge pool or some other stupid impossible-to-interact-with combo. Or drop 5K and build food chain tazri. But again I don't think this is actually helpful in the long term even if it's probably cathartic in the short.
I am also sometimes the "default bogeyman" at my usual group, but I figured out they can't stop everything. Lower you average CMC by 1.5 - 2 and just spam things that Cantrip or generate mad value. Maelstrom Wanderer is a great choice, because literally all you should do prior to casting it is ramp [which is rarely countered] and a turn 5 7/5 haste + two spells has a good shot at taking the win every game.
I'm a Timmy through and through, with a little bit of Johnny in me. I play to socialize, I play because I like the power fantasy. Sometimes I like beating face with big creatures, overwhelming someone with a swarm of small creatures, making the occasional big play that swings the whole game. But mostly, I'd rather socialize, get to know people, learn to be a better player, and perhaps lessons that can carry over beyond games. I'd like to see a deck that I came up with, on my own or with help, do well. I want to win occasionally, but winning isn't all that important. My enjoyment in the game doesn't depend mostly on winning, but I would like to occasionally feel powerful and win big. Constantly being picked on and dying first or second makes me feel powerless. Being manascrewed or manaflooded makes me feel powerless. I want to know that I made an impact in the game. That the game would have played out differently without me in it. I'd love being able to win every so often. If I won even 10% of all four player games I'd be ecstatic.
What bugs me mostly is unfriendliness/ really bad etiquette, people who are overly competitive, and any kind of prejudice or "contempt prior to investigation". I want a group where I can play something goofy like Marrow-Gnawer rat tribal, or Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist tokens or Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith or my red/white Archangel Avacyn control... I don't want to have to play dirty or play a tier deck to win. I'm about an average skill level player. I know I'm not TERRIBLE, I can win a 1v1 game, and when I was playing 60 card 1v1 I was winning my share of the time, if not more, and sometimes when I'd win, I'd absolutely STOMP my opponent. The quality of a win matters much more than the quantity.
I don't like to feel like I'm being bullied or hazed, because I got quite enough of that when I was younger. I'm in my mid-30s and too old for that. I have no desire to go back to high school or even college days for that matter. When I was growing up, Magic was my escape from the stuff in my life that sucked... now it's something that's starting to suck. I need to get out and do things, and Magic had a lot of good memories for me, so I came back. I'll give this group a few more weeks, see what's going on, maybe try another local game store. I don't want to give up on Magic, and I've already sunk quite a bit of money into cards, and a lot of time into deck brewing, which I enjoy. I've also gotten help from a lot of awesome people on this forum, and I'd like to use that advice and be able to go to people and say what worked, what I've learned, that I've actually won my first game, whatever. I'll keep everyone posted on what I find. I don't think leaving the other group is the right choice, because they're never going to get used to me being there if I leave. I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll leave it here for now.
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"Cut it down, bury it in the snow, put it to the torch. The rose will still bloom again."
Man, this sucks. I really don't think its your decks, you've had a lot of good advice from the people here, it really just sounds like the people you play with are ********s. I'd consider boycotting the more toxic members of your meta, but if it's that bad you might end up just getting the boot anyway, or asked to leave your LGS if it turns sour. So maybe not.
To be clear, I don't think we're talking about levels of competitiveness here, I think we're talking about people who just have the wrong sort of goals in mind for their gaming experience. Ideally, you want a group of people who want everyone to have fun, with winning being a secondary goal. What you have right now sounds like a bunch of jerks who aren't interested in anyone else's experience and are quite willing to upset people to win a game. In a format thats meant to be social primarily, that's not healthy or productive.
Here's what I think you should do. Try playing with a different group, dip your toes in it for a couple games and see if there's a tangible difference. If it's the same, or if you don't enjoy yourself, go back to the original group and play. If not, you've lost absolutely nothing but some bad experiences you never need to think about again.
There should be plenty of ways to find another meta - Facebook, putting the word out at your LGS (my guy is really good - he actively deters ********s from coming into the shop), existing friends...there's bound to be a group out there.
I'm a Timmy through and through, with a little bit of Johnny in me. I play to socialize, I play because I like the power fantasy. Sometimes I like beating face with big creatures, overwhelming someone with a swarm of small creatures, making the occasional big play that swings the whole game. But mostly, I'd rather socialize, get to know people, learn to be a better player, and perhaps lessons that can carry over beyond games. I'd like to see a deck that I came up with, on my own or with help, do well. I want to win occasionally, but winning isn't all that important. My enjoyment in the game doesn't depend mostly on winning, but I would like to occasionally feel powerful and win big. Constantly being picked on and dying first or second makes me feel powerless. Being manascrewed or manaflooded makes me feel powerless. I want to know that I made an impact in the game. That the game would have played out differently without me in it. I'd love being able to win every so often. If I won even 10% of all four player games I'd be ecstatic.
What bugs me mostly is unfriendliness/ really bad etiquette, people who are overly competitive, and any kind of prejudice or "contempt prior to investigation". I want a group where I can play something goofy like Marrow-Gnawer rat tribal, or Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist tokens or Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith or my red/white Archangel Avacyn control... I don't want to have to play dirty or play a tier deck to win. I'm about an average skill level player. I know I'm not TERRIBLE, I can win a 1v1 game, and when I was playing 60 card 1v1 I was winning my share of the time, if not more, and sometimes when I'd win, I'd absolutely STOMP my opponent. The quality of a win matters much more than the quantity.
I don't like to feel like I'm being bullied or hazed, because I got quite enough of that when I was younger. I'm in my mid-30s and too old for that. I have no desire to go back to high school or even college days for that matter. When I was growing up, Magic was my escape from the stuff in my life that sucked... now it's something that's starting to suck. I need to get out and do things, and Magic had a lot of good memories for me, so I came back. I'll give this group a few more weeks, see what's going on, maybe try another local game store. I don't want to give up on Magic, and I've already sunk quite a bit of money into cards, and a lot of time into deck brewing, which I enjoy. I've also gotten help from a lot of awesome people on this forum, and I'd like to use that advice and be able to go to people and say what worked, what I've learned, that I've actually won my first game, whatever. I'll keep everyone posted on what I find. I don't think leaving the other group is the right choice, because they're never going to get used to me being there if I leave. I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll leave it here for now.
You knoooww, if you do like “RAAAWR! SMASH!!!” timmy decks, Xenagod is a really fun guy to pump up an aggro theme. Red/green does have a bunch of destruction control options, too. I use him in my hydra deck that disrupts artifacts/enchantments early game, then switches into big, aggressive threats. Best thing about that is the ramp and destruction has bodies stapled to the effects, giving early game chump blocking. It’s simple but really aggressive and fun as heck. Surprisingly, it’s my most successful build, though it admittedly won’t crush fast combo decks. Hydras are my choice, but there are other options, too.
Toc, I agree on all points, that's why I'll be going to my usual group on Wednesday, but also going to the EDH league at another store on Thursday. I'll post my Nazahn deck soon so you can see. It's not really underpowered, and I shouldn't be getting my butt kicked nearly as bad as I am. I've taken Feline Ferocity and added several cards like Blade of Selves, Sram, Senior Edificer, Open the Armory and Puresteel Paladin to make it better. I haven't had the money yet to build the Archangel Avacyn deck, nor have I been to my local game store in awhile. I'm going Wednesday and hopefully Alex and Eve will be there so we can discuss the local meta. I know the deck will do fairly well, because it's a creature-heavy meta, with one person who plays so many decks it's hard to tell what she's going to go for. She has just about every conceivable deck archetype, a total of I think 14 decks and #15 is in the works. Boros_Blendo, I'd love to build Xenagos, and he's on my list now. I have a few decks I want to build, I may just end up with several like some people at my LGS have. I've wanted a squirrel deck since I started playing EDH, so I think that comes next. My current forum avatar after all, as you see, is a giraffe licking a squirrel, so I also feel I need to have a squirrel deck for that reason. Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist is the frontrunner right now, but I've also seen Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and Rhys the Redeemed suggested. I also feel I want to finish the upgrades I've been making to Nazahn, and to build Maelstrom Wanderer. If the people in my current group become civilized human beings or I get into another good group, I'm trying both options, I'll keep going with the deckbuilding. I need to go to an appointment now, but will be back in a couple hours and will be on the forums then.
Another deck idea I have is Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist tokens done primarily with squirrel tokens from stuff like Acorn Harvest, Druid's Call, Squirrel Nest, Deranged Hermit, Liege of the Hollows, and good token support like Elspeth Tirel, Anointed Procession and Hour of Reckoning and a few wincons like Triumph of the Hordes, Overrun, and Beastmaster Ascension. Is a goofy deck like that likely to fly under the radar until I have a sizeable token army and can actually start making them huge to try for a win? If not, what sort of deck am I looking for that can win but won't draw attention until one or two other people are already dead and that can be built on a budget?
Or is it not going to matter? Am I just going to be targeted anyway because I'm the only woman at the table, or new, or some other equally stupid reason? I've messaged with someone some on ways of helping me in how I play politically, namely, not saying much unless it really matters, but is there also a way to play aggro or somewhat aggro and only really draw fire from the person I'm going after, or perhaps play a deck that waits until the time is right and people have been weakened, and then go for the kill?
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
If they see your deck as a threat then Maybe a change would be best. When I played.arcum I had similar problems. But eventually got to a 4 turn clock (had to keep upgrading)
You could try upgrading the Dr lot maybe lower your curve. Or switch decks (I built eryao to show that my arcum deck was not so bad)), then erayo got banned. I built Leovold, Leovold got banned...)
You could build a meaner deck so they see your deck less threatening when you pull it out (but that may bring grudges to the table)
I say build a swarm deck. Squirrels is fun. But you can also do elves, goblins, merfolk, zombies, soldiers.
Or of you ha e the cash. Stop caring altogether. Build a 10k deck and stop letting them play magic. Pull it out when you are having a night when you are feeling singled out for no reason .
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Maybe you were a bigger threat at the time than you thought, or were at least representing an imminent threat with Zendikar Resurgent.
I have no idea who these other players are and if they really are focusing on you due to gender that's lame and I don't blame you for not playing with them. What I'm saying is that depending on the board state they might have had a perfectly valid reason to target you.
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
- Do you tend to win more games than statistically likely? i.e. - Are you winning 25% of four-player games, or something more like 50%? If you win more often than everyone else, you are The Threat and will be targeted.
- Are the people you play with super salty and carry grudges from one game to the next?
- When they focus on you are they doing it because they fell like they must to prevent you from winning? Or are they doing it because it doesn't hurt them and they get in "free damage"?
- Even if you don't have the best board at the time, do you have a history of explosive end-games?
- You mentioned playing aggro - are you drawing first blood?
My go-to advice for multiplayer politics is the following:
- Be enough of a threat that no one wants to waste resources going after you, but not enough of a threat that they HAVE to go after you.
- If players are making bad threat assessment (going after you when someone else is clearly more of a threat), try to talk them around to your point of view.
- If they ignore the previous advice, tell them that you will send everything you have at the first player who hits you without justification, that you will quit trying to win and just go into Punisher mode. Then follow through, sending all removal at them, all attacks at them. It only takes a game or two before they think twice about hitting you.
- Try not to draw first blood. Build a board that is defensive and wait for someone else to draw first blood. Then go on the offense.
You asked if it was because you are the only woman at the table, and unfortunately, this is where I can't be helpful. I don't know the people you play with. If that's their reason, they're idiots, and I feel sorry for you. I can tell you we only have one female who plays regularly at our LGS, but I don't think I've ever seen her targetted just because she's a girl. Usually it's because she has the most broken board and we're all going to lose if we don't target her.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
I agree that playing into politics can get you pretty far in some games, so try to play into that. I know I've won plenty of games where I had absolutely no business winning just because I played some key politics at crucial times.
I know it's not the easiest thing to do, but is finding a new/different regular playgroup a possibility? Sometimes, some metas and playgroups are just "that way" and may be more competitive than a player had in mind. Plus, a new group likely won't know of your Kaalia transgressions.
Nazahn is a good commander that can lead a good deck with a couple different strategies, but I personally wouldn't expect anything more busted than Mairsil or Zacama, certainly, so I do find your explanation of events peculiar and would put me off to the table as well if I were in your shoes. Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist tokens actually sounds like a lot of fun. WG put you in great colors for tokens and swarm, and there could be really cool tribal stuff to add in support of squirrels. Plus, it's fun to imagine killing an opponent with a swarm of rabid little cheeky-faced furry squirrels. Pro tip: if you start brewing this, put Earthcraft on the $ upgrades list for the future since it can create infinite squirrel tokens with Squirrel Nest, and be sure to use the Conspiracy copy of Nest for the awesome flavor text.
Current EDH
UThassa, God of the Sea devotion control
WRGTana, the Bloodsower & Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa partners weenie tokens
UUnesh, Criosphinx Sovereign Sphinx tribal
WUTaigam, Ojutai Master tokens on the rebound spellslinger
GRhonas the Indomitable green creature beats
UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ETB tribal
Retired EDH
WURGKynaios and Tiro of Meletis group hug
URThe Locust God draw swarm
UTalrand, Sky Summoner funsies blue spells
WBObzedat, Ghost Council life gain/drain
If you are going GW tokens Doubling season is a must. Along with Parallel lives (as stated) ad Anointed Procession.
(I would also suggest primal vigor, but probably harder to find.)
Also (while it is not really needed.) With opalescence, Dual nature you can actually turn those toen doublers into a finite number of creatures, that surpassed the amount of particle in the known universe. (it requires a bit of set up but once you pull it off ou have so may tokens you may as well be infinite. Find a way to give them haste and bingo. (without a form of fog they die now)
Oh and parallel evolution may be useful. (and while you like cats, May i suggest Rhys The redeemed instead?
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Zendikar Resurgent joins Caged Sun, Mana Reflection, Mirari's Wake, and Boundless Realms at the high-cost end of the mana doubler spectrum, but even here, once it's out, it's out.
In general, mana that scales with something, not just mana doublers, but cards like Gaea's Cradle, Serra's Sanctum, Xenagos, the Reveler, and Viridian Joiner, that mana is going to paint a huge target on you.
For your second deck, another one that will is the rare quest cycle from Zendikar. Pyromancer Ascension is worthless in Commander, but the other four?
Luminarch Ascension because cheap 4/4 flying tokens aren't a problem. (And fortunately, it's the easiest to stop. Just make your opponent lose 1 life every turn.)
Archmage Ascension is pretty much an easy way to draw into a combo, once you draw two cards a turn for six turns. (Which is easier than it looks: A bunch of cards give you an extra card at the beginning of your upkeep, or you can just run Invisible Stalker with something to give it the Curiosity ability, anything at all. On opponents' turns, all you need is instants that draw cards, or permanents that draw cards as an activated ability like Sphinx of Magosi.)
Bloodchief Ascension has a few combos, including an infinite combo. It's another one that makes opponents focus on you just because of what you have to do. And it's also easy to work off of, with the right cards. (Damage doublers are useful here. Anything with extort can also work, or instants that do damage or cause life loss.) Actually, Nekusar decks, in four-player pods, can just bring it out one turn and then do what they do next turn.
Which brings Beastmaster Ascension. Turns out a blanket +5/+5 to all your creatures is a huge deal. It turns a little saproling token into something titan-size. It basically blanks most red removal (though it does make you vulnerable to Reprisal effects). And...having nothing smaller than a 6/6 makes you a huge threat. Most players only drop it after they're ready to alpha strike with 7+ creatures (or 4+ and Doubling Season does the rest.) because, frankly, no one is going to let you live the minute you drop a rare quest unless you prepare for it.
On phasing:
To that end, my commander is Hazezon Tamar, who is much more effective late game when I get a horde of sand warriors after other hands are empty of commander killing spells. If your colors are appropriate, good go-wide spells are: Descent of the Dragons, Warstorm Surge, Biomass Mutation, Mirror Entity, Pennon Blade, Sword of the Paruns, Devout Invocation, Insurrection, Retribution of the Meek, etc, and they are all decently budget. I guess where I’m going is if you look like a target, you will get targeted. If you can adjust and they learn you won’t go down without wrecking them, then maybe you can stick to your guns as others have mentioned.
Now, everything said applies to decks that don’t win within six turns. If you are in one of THOSE groups, well, good luck. That’s part of whyI don’t play in stores.
Like other people have said, in a meta like mine with multiple other decks that are larger threats than my Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith deck I don't see why I'm getting taken out first. DirkGently, I think his name is, has pointed out that people tend to be bad at threat assessment, and I may be falling victim to that. Otherwise, the only other reason I can think of is prejudice or some kind of hazing for daring to play Kaalia of the Vast, or daring to *gasp* be female, or LGBT, or whatever else that's different about me that they want to single me out for. I sincerely hope it's just bad threat assessment, so I'll assume the best and give the benefit of the doubt until I know more. Part of me does feel like bringing out Kaalia again, throwing all social graces out the window, playing mass land destruction, and wrecking some dreams, but I don't want to stoop to the level of the very mean and obnoxious guy who plays a very degenerate combo Mairsil deck in a group that isn't explicitly supposed to be competitive. He and the Ojutai player have made a meta that is already a bit more competitive than I was hoping for into one where all of the sudden I need to be able to answer a fifth turn combo win or a Voltron threat that can do lethal commander damage to at least one person early.
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
if one person is going off on turn 6 and people are letting him go unopposed ask the other two players if they enjoy losing also. this is where the politics game comes in.
it does seem like you play decks that can accidentally win which is why I would not play maelstrom wanderer. token shenanigans with trostrani might work as trostrani isn't a huge threat.
I've run afoul socially in some way, likely in the political aspect of multiplayer, and possibly in other areas. I just see things playing out like they did in my childhood for me. I was freakishly tall, overweight, nerdy, and got along better with my teachers than with the other students, so I was ignored or worse by most people. I just want friends, which I have a severe shortage of. It really warms my heart that people on these boards have been so nice to me. I really wish you folks would have been my play group instead of who I'm currently playing with.
As for being the only defenseless player, sometimes I am, sometimes the Mairsil player is sitting there with nothing but mana rocks and possibly a commander with an ability or two stapled to it. Sometimes someone else is manascrewed too. There doesn't seem to be a pattern as far as them attacking me when I'm the only weak player, sometimes there are others, and very occasionally I'm left alone for a while until I put something of value down... but even then, I feel other people have more things of value, or one thing that is an imminent threat down, and I still don't usually get a break. Maybe my past experiences in school are coloring what I'm seeing now, I'll freely admit that. I'm still puzzled, but social situations in general tend to puzzle me. I'm disabled, and spend so much time indoors on my computer that I'm much better at text socializing than I am at in person socializing.
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
Try meetup, try facebook, ask your LGSs...you might be able to find something more amenable.
If you do just want to win, probably take the easy way out and play teferi + knowledge pool or some other stupid impossible-to-interact-with combo. Or drop 5K and build food chain tazri. But again I don't think this is actually helpful in the long term even if it's probably cathartic in the short.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
What bugs me mostly is unfriendliness/ really bad etiquette, people who are overly competitive, and any kind of prejudice or "contempt prior to investigation". I want a group where I can play something goofy like Marrow-Gnawer rat tribal, or Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist tokens or Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith or my red/white Archangel Avacyn control... I don't want to have to play dirty or play a tier deck to win. I'm about an average skill level player. I know I'm not TERRIBLE, I can win a 1v1 game, and when I was playing 60 card 1v1 I was winning my share of the time, if not more, and sometimes when I'd win, I'd absolutely STOMP my opponent. The quality of a win matters much more than the quantity.
I don't like to feel like I'm being bullied or hazed, because I got quite enough of that when I was younger. I'm in my mid-30s and too old for that. I have no desire to go back to high school or even college days for that matter. When I was growing up, Magic was my escape from the stuff in my life that sucked... now it's something that's starting to suck. I need to get out and do things, and Magic had a lot of good memories for me, so I came back. I'll give this group a few more weeks, see what's going on, maybe try another local game store. I don't want to give up on Magic, and I've already sunk quite a bit of money into cards, and a lot of time into deck brewing, which I enjoy. I've also gotten help from a lot of awesome people on this forum, and I'd like to use that advice and be able to go to people and say what worked, what I've learned, that I've actually won my first game, whatever. I'll keep everyone posted on what I find. I don't think leaving the other group is the right choice, because they're never going to get used to me being there if I leave. I'm starting to repeat myself, so I'll leave it here for now.
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)
To be clear, I don't think we're talking about levels of competitiveness here, I think we're talking about people who just have the wrong sort of goals in mind for their gaming experience. Ideally, you want a group of people who want everyone to have fun, with winning being a secondary goal. What you have right now sounds like a bunch of jerks who aren't interested in anyone else's experience and are quite willing to upset people to win a game. In a format thats meant to be social primarily, that's not healthy or productive.
Here's what I think you should do. Try playing with a different group, dip your toes in it for a couple games and see if there's a tangible difference. If it's the same, or if you don't enjoy yourself, go back to the original group and play. If not, you've lost absolutely nothing but some bad experiences you never need to think about again.
There should be plenty of ways to find another meta - Facebook, putting the word out at your LGS (my guy is really good - he actively deters ********s from coming into the shop), existing friends...there's bound to be a group out there.
RWArchangel Avacyn, GWNazahn, Revered Bladesmith, RKari Zev, Skyship Raider (French Duel)