So lately I've been tinkering on a Edgar Markov list that features a somewhat low curve aggro style build. I do have the list up in the decks section and while some inclusions are perhaps debatable, I've been mainly going back and forth on one of the last card slots. Currently I have Vampire Interloper sleeved up in it, since its a nice aggressive flyer. With the deck being aggro styled the not being able to block part isn't that much of an issue in most cases, that said there's a few cards I've been considering here as well:
Vampire Lacerator is more aggressive and is one mana cheaper to bring out, though the loss of life can become a tad annoying as there is a fair amount of strain on the life total already.
Vampire Cutthroat helps mitigate the life loss a tad but at the expense of a tad less power. Unlike Lacerator it does have pseudo evasion with skulk.
Skymarcher Aspirant feels like the better card in general, it might take a moment for Ascend to trigger but no issue for the deck. For me the main downside is that it's a white vampire opposed to the other options.
So yeah, perhaps people could give their advice on which of these four they would run if they had to pick one.
I'm with Gutterstorm on this one. There are 55 some odd vampires in your colors at 2 CMC or less, so I feel like you shouldn't have to be pared down to just these choices. I can't really condone any of these outside of limited, honestly.
Edit: Took a glance at your list, and if you want cheap tribal options, I'd go with Vampire Nighthawk , Pawn of Ulamog or Arrogant Bloodlord even if they are 3 CMC.
For 2 CMC, you're missing Gatekeeper of Malakir which can provide some utility in an aggro shell.
The only one of these I don't run/plan to run is Vampire Interloper. Being forced to pick one I'd say Vampire Cutthroat. The lifelink and semi invasion is good stuff.
While I agree that these are all pretty bad, if I absolutely had to pick one I would actually go with Skymarcher Aspirant. I don't think Ascend truly matters outside this card, but a 2/1 Flyer for 1 seems like it would have the most utility (either gives you a chump blocker or flies over the defending player's creatures) and I doubt it would take much in a Edgar deck to Ascend. And, it is still 2 power. I don't think the 1 toughness is all that much of a concern to suggest the Lacerator over this.
2 1/1's for 1 mana would be nuts in a 20-life format, and these are all slightly better than that because you get a token and a 1/1 with abilities. But in commander you need to go pretty hard aggro to make that work. I think all 15 of the 1-drop vampires are worthwhile options if that's what you're going for, but then you really need to go for the kill and have nothing but anthems and wincons at CMC 3+.
And you'll still probably lose, because casual commander hates aggro. But at least you'll be a credible threat to start with. You might also consider Duress-style effects to scout for wraths, but that's difficult since they only target 1 player, and liable to draw hate. On the plus side, that's a really scary deck to fight 1vs1 if you do that a lot.
2 1/1's for 1 mana would be nuts in a 20-life format, and these are all slightly better than that because you get a token and a 1/1 with abilities. But in commander you need to go pretty hard aggro to make that work. I think all 15 of the 1-drop vampires are worthwhile options if that's what you're going for, but then you really need to go for the kill and have nothing but anthems and wincons at CMC 3+.
And you'll still probably lose, because casual commander hates aggro. But at least you'll be a credible threat to start with. You might also consider Duress-style effects to scout for wraths, but that's difficult since they only target 1 player, and liable to draw hate. On the plus side, that's a really scary deck to fight 1vs1 if you do that a lot.
There are ways to make this deck work for you. There's enough recursion to cast low CMC vampires turn after turn persistently. Of course you want recursion to hand to take advantage of Edgar Markov's eminence, the only other issue you have is persistent draw. And you're playing black so you're good there. ISBpathfinder runs an extreme low cost CMC Edgar deck that is reported to be remarkably consistent.
The Vampire Cutthroat I think is solid in Edgar lists. The evasion will usually be active at least against one player, even if you equip it up with Heirloom Blade or similar. And the lifelink is actually great if your deck has any pumps.
One thing I will say about low-curve Edgar decks though, don’t skimp on the recursion. It is one thing to have a solid opening set of turns consistently, but the real goal is creating as many Eminence triggers as possible over the course of the game. Recursion to hand is the way to do that, e.g. Oversold Cemetery, Sword of Light and Shadow, Phyrexian Reclamation. Just draw alone typically doesn’t cut it, because realistically only half of the cards in your deck could ever be creatures, and one trigger a turn isn’t enough to rebuild into threat status at later stages anyway. I'm talking recursion to the level of Aphetto Dredging and Soul of Innistrad when you are considering retrieving creatures at such low cost at that stage of the game.
Agree with this. The only problem is you want them without an activation cost. Oversold Cemetery is almost perfect, as it's a manaless ability with a reasonably easy condition to meet. Dusk//Dawn I can see being good, but haven't played it yet. It's difficult to find options that will leave you with mana in your pool the same turn you play/activate, so that you can repopulate. Bone Harvest and Footbottom Feast could work I guess. Or you could look at options for shuffling graveyard into library if you have enough draw. But that seems woefully inefficient for a deck that needs to move that quickly.
Thanks for all the advise, looks like Cutthroat will be the one to go for right now. I work with a budget so have to wait until I can pick up additional cards, so had to use what I had around. But will be looking to add either Phyrexian Reclamation or Oversold Cemetery, especially the latter looks good to me. Do know that my card draw needs some improving as well, so will still be looking into that.
Death Denied is good, but probably better for control decks with lots of mana open after their turn ends.
I've looked into a few options for returning from GY to hand. I run Sigil of the New Dawn as well. It's decent to hold mana up for during an opponent's combat phase, but I can see losing it, as this deck needs mana early to swarm the board.
I like Reaping the Graves as an 'I'll steal your storm' card too, but other than there's not a lot of instant/sorcery spells I'd consider. Reason being, as the majority of our creatures are one drop, we need a low CMC on the spell to even achieve parity, let alone advantage, and this deck needs to move fast. I'm trialling Wander in Death, but I can't see it staying.
Vampire Lacerator is more aggressive and is one mana cheaper to bring out, though the loss of life can become a tad annoying as there is a fair amount of strain on the life total already.
Vampire Cutthroat helps mitigate the life loss a tad but at the expense of a tad less power. Unlike Lacerator it does have pseudo evasion with skulk.
Skymarcher Aspirant feels like the better card in general, it might take a moment for Ascend to trigger but no issue for the deck. For me the main downside is that it's a white vampire opposed to the other options.
So yeah, perhaps people could give their advice on which of these four they would run if they had to pick one.
No seriously they're all bad. I'm not an Edgar player but none of them seem worthy of a slot.
Vampire Interloper is so bad it doesnt even fit its own name.
Edit: Took a glance at your list, and if you want cheap tribal options, I'd go with Vampire Nighthawk , Pawn of Ulamog or Arrogant Bloodlord even if they are 3 CMC.
For 2 CMC, you're missing Gatekeeper of Malakir which can provide some utility in an aggro shell.
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And you'll still probably lose, because casual commander hates aggro. But at least you'll be a credible threat to start with. You might also consider Duress-style effects to scout for wraths, but that's difficult since they only target 1 player, and liable to draw hate. On the plus side, that's a really scary deck to fight 1vs1 if you do that a lot.
- Rabid Wombat
There are ways to make this deck work for you. There's enough recursion to cast low CMC vampires turn after turn persistently. Of course you want recursion to hand to take advantage of Edgar Markov's eminence, the only other issue you have is persistent draw. And you're playing black so you're good there. ISBpathfinder runs an extreme low cost CMC Edgar deck that is reported to be remarkably consistent.
One thing I will say about low-curve Edgar decks though, don’t skimp on the recursion. It is one thing to have a solid opening set of turns consistently, but the real goal is creating as many Eminence triggers as possible over the course of the game. Recursion to hand is the way to do that, e.g. Oversold Cemetery, Sword of Light and Shadow, Phyrexian Reclamation. Just draw alone typically doesn’t cut it, because realistically only half of the cards in your deck could ever be creatures, and one trigger a turn isn’t enough to rebuild into threat status at later stages anyway. I'm talking recursion to the level of Aphetto Dredging and Soul of Innistrad when you are considering retrieving creatures at such low cost at that stage of the game.
Oath of Ghouls and Reaping the Graves come to mind. You can also run Immortal Servitude or Return to the Ranks even if it's not going to get you Edgar triggers.
Death Denied is good, but probably better for control decks with lots of mana open after their turn ends.
- Rabid Wombat
I've looked into a few options for returning from GY to hand. I run Sigil of the New Dawn as well. It's decent to hold mana up for during an opponent's combat phase, but I can see losing it, as this deck needs mana early to swarm the board.
I like Reaping the Graves as an 'I'll steal your storm' card too, but other than there's not a lot of instant/sorcery spells I'd consider. Reason being, as the majority of our creatures are one drop, we need a low CMC on the spell to even achieve parity, let alone advantage, and this deck needs to move fast. I'm trialling Wander in Death, but I can't see it staying.
Skymarcher Aspirant > Vampire Cutthroat
From there I would say that Vampire Interloper and Vampire Lacerator are close in how I would evaluate them but I might go with the Lacerator just because its faster and cheaper. Skymarcher Aspirant is often going to be Vampire Interloper for less mana though.
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