We need a card that transforms black into red mana to be able to cast the drawn wheel effects. This would enable a very degenerate deck. Manaforge Cinder is limited and Agent of Stromgald has the wrong direction.
Like Skyshroud Elf? Okay, yeah, now you're in four colors, but still, it does exist.
Anyway, I've used this in a few decks:
It's pretty much as you'd expect in Nath, but I rarely have anything to play during opp's upkeep (besides a few removal spells, and this is the least attractive time to do so), so I have to have some sort of mana sink handy. (Gemstone Array is a good one, especially with Doubling season.)
It's powerful in Ghave, if you're running Mind Slash or Sadistic Hypnotist or Larceny. The trick here is, Ghave's his (What are Ghave's pronouns anyway? When you're an asexual fungus?) own mana sink, so that's one option, and you can always use more tokens (especially with access to doublers and cards that go off when a token enters or dies), so that's another; your opponents are going to get card disadvantage regardless of what they discard.
It really shines in Nekusar, just because of wheels. But it must be noted, I still need a mana sink, because my Nekusar runs Arcane Laboratory to make sure my opponents can't chew all the food (i.e., cards) I'm forcing down their gullets. Nothing would ruin my day faster than giving someone the combo they needed.
You can also use it in graveyard-based strategies, but mostly I've just been milling the ***** out of everyone (including myself) to fuel graveyard-based strategies.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I keep imagining using this on some degenerately horrible creature like Hellcarver Demon or against decks not optimized for Dralnu, Lich Lord, donating it to an opponent, and then forcing all the bad effects on them with it. But imagination fails me here save for the derpiest of derpy decks, so I only ever see it really used as a haste/buff.
Quote from from="Drangsal83
We need a card that transforms black into red mana to be able to cast the drawn wheel effects. This would enable a very degenerate deck.
[card »
Manaforge Cinder[/card] is limited and Agent of Stromgald has the wrong direction.
Are there cards other than Conjurers Closet that blink back to the controller's control rather than the owner's control? Because if you could slap the suit on Phage and then closet blink her...
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Are there cards other than Conjurers Closet that blink back to the controller's control rather than the owner's control? Because if you could slap the suit on Phage and then closet blink her...
I looked, and I don't think there's anything that can be used for the purpose you described. Virtually all blink effects either return the blinked card into play under their owner's control, or under your control ("your" being the controller of the blink effect). There's nothing I could find that returned a blinked card into play under its controller's control with one exception: Meandering Towershell. If you attack with a Towershell you don't control, it will return to the battlefield back under your control next turn.
It would be convoluted, but you could attach an Assault Suit to Phage the Untouchable, turn it into a Meandering Towershell using Cytoshape before attacks, then force your opponent's Phage-now-Towershell to attack with something like Fumiko the Lowblood. The Phage-Towershell would exile itself, and then return from exile during that player's next declare attackers step as a Phage the Untouchable, killing them.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
I keep imagining using this on some degenerately horrible creature like Hellcarver Demon or against decks not optimized for Dralnu, Lich Lord, donating it to an opponent, and then forcing all the bad effects on them with it. But imagination fails me here save for the derpiest of derpy decks, so I only ever see it really used as a haste/buff.
Hellcarver Demon, eh? Throw in a Bullwhip and you might have something there.
This really needs to force attacks. As-is it sucks unless the commander must attack imo. So...zurgo and Ruhan, basically.
Well, there are ways to force attacks, and this can be used in any color.
Moving away from commanders, has anyone considered the original Eldrazi from ROE? Obviously Ulamog's Crusher is where we begin, since (besides being the cheapest creature with annihilator) it is forced to attack.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Edit: Do you know how much fun it is to watch this card create 2 3/34/4 centaurs per turn? Not really, ecspecially when they are being churned out with Seedborn Muse and Mirari’s Wake... See, stupid things still happen in this format without being totally busted.
Activate Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage's second ability, populating your Clever Impersonator token. Have it not copy anything as it enters the battlefield for a third time. This will produce a permanent token copy of Clever Impersonator that will not go away at the end of the turn. From there, you can now pay 2GW to populate as often as you like. With each subsequent activation, you can now have your Clever Impersonator tokens enter the battlefield as permanent token copies of any nonland permanent.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Activate Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage's second ability, populating your Clever Impersonator token. Have it not copy anything as it enters the battlefield for a third time. This will produce a permanent token copy of Clever Impersonator that will not go away at the end of the turn. From there, you can now pay 2GW to populate as often as you like. With each subsequent activation, you can now have your Clever Impersonator tokens enter the battlefield as permanent token copies of any nonland permanent.
Love this combo
I forgot that Populate doesn't work on non-creature tokens. This is a good way around that!
Activate Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage's second ability, populating your Clever Impersonator token. Have it not copy anything as it enters the battlefield for a third time. This will produce a permanent token copy of Clever Impersonator that will not go away at the end of the turn. From there, you can now pay 2GW to populate as often as you like. With each subsequent activation, you can now have your Clever Impersonator tokens enter the battlefield as permanent token copies of any nonland permanent.
Love this combo
I forgot that Populate doesn't work on non-creature tokens. This is a good way around that!
It's too much work though, we can just put Clever Impersonator on a Soul Foundry
Populate typically to me requires either clone tokens or big tokens (ideally 4/4 or greater) before it becomes a thing, but this mage does bring a nice 3/3 with her.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It's impact as an aggressive creature is pretty much insignificant in EDH. Which means if someone's playing this, they're planning on some discard related shenanigans. As such, this is a kill on sight card.
It's impact as an aggressive creature is pretty much insignificant in EDH. Which means if someone's playing this, they're planning on some discard related shenanigans. As such, this is a kill on sight card.
Eh, I'd at least wait until they try to resolve gitrog.
Not sure if any other commander would want to play this.
It's fine at it's job, it's just that since being an aggressive weenie without a relevant creature type doesn't really matter in EDH the only thing it does well is being a cheap discard outlet. Unfortunately, in the decks that want that, there are often better options that either do more or are less vulnerable. Being able to discard your hand for free scales well though, and as others have mentioned he's best in Gitrog as that lets you cycle through lands. Otherwise, the trade-off between being tap or Mana limited with more payoff vs neglible payoff for an essentially unlimited discard outlet will often come down on the side of the better payoff.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
It's fine at it's job, it's just that since being an aggressive weenie without a relevant creature type doesn't really matter in EDH the only thing it does well is being a cheap discard outlet. Unfortunately, in the decks that want that, there are often better options that either do more or are less vulnerable. Being able to discard your hand for free scales well though, and as others have mentioned he's best in Gitrog as that lets you cycle through lands. Otherwise, the trade-off between being tap or Mana limited with more payoff vs neglible payoff for an essentially unlimited discard outlet will often come down on the side of the better payoff.
He's good, but there is strictly better now. I mean, you can always attack the guy with no blockers, or discard in response to an attack, but let's be honest, you're playing reanimator or madness or incarnations or possibly dredge with these.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I think there are some benefits to changing colors, I don't think the snake is therefore strictly better. Mongrel dodges color specific removal (which used to be very prevalent.)
I like how it says "becomes a 2/2 creature...Put a +1/+1 counter on it." instead of just making it a 3/3 creature. And yes, I know there are corner cases (manlands *cough*Inkmoth Nexus*cough*, Doubling Season and friends, Llanowar Reborn, just about everything with outlast or graft, that cycle from Morningtide) and this way you can put more than one +1/+1 counter on it, but it still amuses me.
It's funny, I've played a lot of +1/+1 counter decks, but this one never seems to make the cut. Mostly because for an additional 1 I get Kamahl, Slayer of Enemy Lands, and when I animate lands, it's often to blow them up (and a 1/1 is easier to blow up than a 3/3). I might try this some time, though.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Like Skyshroud Elf? Okay, yeah, now you're in four colors, but still, it does exist.
Anyway, I've used this in a few decks:
It's pretty much as you'd expect in Nath, but I rarely have anything to play during opp's upkeep (besides a few removal spells, and this is the least attractive time to do so), so I have to have some sort of mana sink handy. (Gemstone Array is a good one, especially with Doubling season.)
It's powerful in Ghave, if you're running Mind Slash or Sadistic Hypnotist or Larceny. The trick here is, Ghave's his (What are Ghave's pronouns anyway? When you're an asexual fungus?) own mana sink, so that's one option, and you can always use more tokens (especially with access to doublers and cards that go off when a token enters or dies), so that's another; your opponents are going to get card disadvantage regardless of what they discard.
It really shines in Nekusar, just because of wheels. But it must be noted, I still need a mana sink, because my Nekusar runs Arcane Laboratory to make sure my opponents can't chew all the food (i.e., cards) I'm forcing down their gullets. Nothing would ruin my day faster than giving someone the combo they needed.
You can also use it in graveyard-based strategies, but mostly I've just been milling the ***** out of everyone (including myself) to fuel graveyard-based strategies.
On phasing:
Play with Silent Arbiter. Equip to commander with menace. Hope for no removal.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Cascading Cataracts
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
It would be convoluted, but you could attach an Assault Suit to Phage the Untouchable, turn it into a Meandering Towershell using Cytoshape before attacks, then force your opponent's Phage-now-Towershell to attack with something like Fumiko the Lowblood. The Phage-Towershell would exile itself, and then return from exile during that player's next declare attackers step as a Phage the Untouchable, killing them.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Hellcarver Demon, eh? Throw in a Bullwhip and you might have something there.
Well, there are ways to force attacks, and this can be used in any color.
Moving away from commanders, has anyone considered the original Eldrazi from ROE? Obviously Ulamog's Crusher is where we begin, since (besides being the cheapest creature with annihilator) it is forced to attack.
On phasing:
Anyone else ever had a token copy of Peregrine Drake?
#MakeSéanceGreatAgain.
Edit: Do you know how much fun it is to watch this card create 2
3/34/4 centaurs per turn? Not really, ecspecially when they are being churned out with Seedborn Muse and Mirari’s Wake... See, stupid things still happen in this format without being totally busted.Glorious Anthem
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage
Activate Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage's second ability, populating your Clever Impersonator token. Have it not copy anything as it enters the battlefield for a third time. This will produce a permanent token copy of Clever Impersonator that will not go away at the end of the turn. From there, you can now pay 2GW to populate as often as you like. With each subsequent activation, you can now have your Clever Impersonator tokens enter the battlefield as permanent token copies of any nonland permanent.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Love this combo
I forgot that Populate doesn't work on non-creature tokens. This is a good way around that!
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
It's too much work though, we can just put Clever Impersonator on a Soul Foundry
I've used her in Ghave and Marath for when you want beef. And in Marath, you can make >4/4 tokens with just Marath, so...(Though both decks do run Hoofprints of the Stag, and Ghave runs Luminarch Ascension and Skirsdag High Priest.)
On phasing:
All things considered, still a solid discard outlet.
Not sure if any other commander would want to play this.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
He's good, but there is strictly better now. I mean, you can always attack the guy with no blockers, or discard in response to an attack, but let's be honest, you're playing reanimator or madness or incarnations or possibly dredge with these.
On phasing:
You get a counter, and you get a counter, and you get a counter, and crap I'm all out.
It's funny, I've played a lot of +1/+1 counter decks, but this one never seems to make the cut. Mostly because for an additional 1 I get Kamahl, Slayer of Enemy Lands, and when I animate lands, it's often to blow them up (and a 1/1 is easier to blow up than a 3/3). I might try this some time, though.
On phasing: