I understand that the non-spirit restriction is actually more permissive than a non-token restriction, but the anti-tribal synergy causes feel bad moments for Kamigawa enthusiasts like myself, it leaves me hesitant to play the card despite positive experiences with it. I just wanted to protect my Patron of the Kitsune!
I agree with your overall sentiment. I would play it in Karador spirit tribal if it weren't for the restriction.
Aside from that, I actually found the card pretty clunky. Having to hold open 2 mana to save a creature while also paying extra mana to make spirits is not very good if you have less than 6 mana.
This is one of those cards that I play often not because it is a super-good card, but because I just plain like it. That said, it has usually been fairly strong in the decks where I run it (currently 7 of my 62 decks). It has been particularly good in Ertai and Teysa. I doubt it would make the cut anywhere if I was a highly competitive player, but the joy of playing cards like this is part of why I favor EDH over the competitive formats.
I understand that the non-spirit restriction is actually more permissive than a non-token restriction, but the anti-tribal synergy causes feel bad moments for Kamigawa enthusiasts like myself, it leaves me hesitant to play the card despite positive experiences with it. I just wanted to protect my Patron of the Kitsune!
Mechanically yes, but flavorfully it actually fits - before the Kami War happened, it was pretty much the non-spirits praying to the Spirits for protection, which most of them provided. Even during the war the Kami were pretty much "forced" to manifest into combat by O-Kagachi (in the most indirect primal way) and weren't interested in protecting each other (and the more intelligent/higher-ranked ones were pretty much plotting their own agendas).
This could actually be re-flavored (with new art of course) if we ever return to the plane.
This looks interesting. To use the obvious Ghave example, potential with persist/undying. But since I mostly use enchantments or artifacts where I can because they're cheaper and reduce my vulnerability to a Wrath...
But it does make Young Wolf and friends go infinite slightly more easily.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I was really sad when the one Game Day event I won, this card was featured on the playmat. Not a very strong card, not iconic in any fashion, failure on MTG’s part in my opinion.
On one hand, I want this to be an instant so that it isn't just worse than Vindicate, but on the other hand, I've been bullied enough by Plow Under to imagine a card that can be instant removal or a turn of draw locking might be a bit much.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
On one hand, I want this to be an instant so that it isn't just worse than Vindicate, but on the other hand, I've been bullied enough by Plow Under to imagine a card that can be instant removal or a turn of draw locking might be a bit much.
Like Plow Under, the core value lies in wasting the opponent another draw or two, compare to destroy them outright. Like comparing Three Tragedies with Stunted Growth.
On one hand, I want this to be an instant so that it isn't just worse than Vindicate, but on the other hand, I've been bullied enough by Plow Under to imagine a card that can be instant removal or a turn of draw locking might be a bit much.
Like Plow Under, the core value lies in wasting the opponent another draw or two, compare to destroy them outright. Like comparing Three Tragedies with Stunted Growth.
Stunted Growth can be brutal, and plow under is strong, but Temporal Spring really did need to be an instant to be good. As an instant, it would be decent delaying "removal" combined with setting someone back a draw. As a sorcery, its too weak. Setting someone back one draw is ok, but not enough to sell me on a card for 3 mana. Delaying a permanent that way is too weak at sorcery speed. As an instant, its better as spot removal as you could wait until the creature is pointed your way or the permanent becomes threatening (they get their other combo piece), and that's worth a ton of value. As a sorcery, its value as spot removal is severely degraded. Vindicate works as a 3 mana sorcery because it hits everything and hits it permanently. Even still, I'd rather have Anguished Unmaking most of the time unless I think I'll need to deal with problem lands like Cradle. Basically, I like my spot removal to be reactive so I can stop combos and let my opponents keep their things until it threatens me. The tuck to the top effect is weak at one card, going back a single draw in't that terrible, so using it just for that (throwing something on just to deny a draw) isn't worth it, and if you send something actually good there your opponent would usually much rather give up a draw to get it back than see it exile or even destroyed. Its strongest use is usually going to be hitting a land early, setting them back both a land drop and draw when those matter most, but I don't think that's worth a card as it only effects one player and you basically need it in your opening hand. Plow Under sets you back 2 land drops and 2 draws, which will typically hurt at most stages of the game. Stunted Growth doesn't set you back land drops, but its key to note that it hits cards in your hand, meaning cards that you haven't cast yet, often meaning cards that you couldn't cast yet. Temporal Spring and Plow Under set you back draws, but at least you are usually going to be able to use the cards you redraw (unless you already have other lands in hand, then the lands are redundant). With Stunted Growth, there's a fairly good chance that those three cards that you are redrawing instead of new cards are going to be dead draws. In practice it doesn't really make a difference as Stunted Growth doesn't effect your board position, while Spring and Plow do, so in all cases your not really getting use out of the cards because you are just resetting what you draw, but psychologically knowing that you are going to be drawing cards that you can't use is disheartening.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
It's a Simic Vindicate, even if they can bring it back next turn. But even then, it's not like blue doesn't have mill, or, you know, counterspells.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Good point. Maybe they will leave it so that it hits any permanent, puts it back on top of a library, and then has the new Assassin’s Trophy language about pulling out a basic land (effectively shuffling the card back into owner’s deck).
I guess then it’s like Chaos Warp, but you get a land guaranteed.
I never thought a thing about this card until right now, but I've decided that this should be the standard by which they give people the non-combat boros legend they claim to want: design a boros card that makes Trapjaw Tyrant good and you'll have a well received boros legend.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I never thought a thing about this card until right now, but I've decided that this should be the standard by which they give people the non-combat boros legend they claim to want: design a boros card that makes Trapjaw Tyrant good and you'll have a well received boros legend.
Looking at enrage dinos, Needletooth Raptor and Sun-Crowned Hunters are the most obvious comparisons. I'd probably run either first. Though frankly, this is near the tail end of my enrage list.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
It's, interesting. It's flicker with upside, getting cast triggers as you mentioned, but also leaving it open I being countered, with the ability to hit opponents permanents to delay them. It's unique, and oddly both narrow and flexible at the same time (it does a few different things weakly).
Private Mod Note
():
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Saving Grasp is a similar card that I think should be considered more often. Release to the Wind is just missing a cantrip or something? Maybe not even a cantrip, just something else added to it, or a cheaper mana cost. Unfortunate rare.
Saving Grasp is a similar card that I think should be considered more often. Release to the Wind is just missing a cantrip or something? Maybe not even a cantrip, just something else added to it, or a cheaper mana cost. Unfortunate rare.
"without paying its mana cost" makes quite a difference especially some of the best cast triggers belong on the Eldrazi and Release to the Wind can target all nonland permanents, not only creatures, so you can save an expensive artifact/enchantment/planeswalker when necessary. Definitely worth the 2 more. Sure, it's worse on a defensive position when used on the opponent, but that's just a natural inverse effect, at least they gave the option for either use.
Hey, I'll gladly take being able to recast Kozilek and get 4 cards for 3 mana. This is an interesting card that I completely forgot existed.
However, there aren't a lot of cast triggers you <i>can</i> buy back. Thankfully, there's some really good ones... mostly attached to the Eldrazi, if memory serves.
The "without paying its mana cost" makes this interesting. Of course, you brought it out once.
It's nice before a boardwipe. And can be fun if your opponent uses a boardwipe, just return your Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to the battlefield afterward, draw four cards, and laugh maniacally.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It's also neat that it hits non creatures, rare for this effect. There are some powerful interactions here, though some of the spiciest ones (cast a walker with doubling season out, fire it's ult, cast this targeting it, cast it again and fire it's ult again) end up being win more. It plays interestingly with evoke, sometimes getting you a discount on Mana and double the effect, but usuually just double the effect for the hardcast cost. Lots of little things. Can you imagine targeting an opponents mystic snake while a different opponent has a key spell on the stack? And yes, this loops with eternal witness.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
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I agree with your overall sentiment. I would play it in Karador spirit tribal if it weren't for the restriction.
Aside from that, I actually found the card pretty clunky. Having to hold open 2 mana to save a creature while also paying extra mana to make spirits is not very good if you have less than 6 mana.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Mechanically yes, but flavorfully it actually fits - before the Kami War happened, it was pretty much the non-spirits praying to the Spirits for protection, which most of them provided. Even during the war the Kami were pretty much "forced" to manifest into combat by O-Kagachi (in the most indirect primal way) and weren't interested in protecting each other (and the more intelligent/higher-ranked ones were pretty much plotting their own agendas).
This could actually be re-flavored (with new art of course) if we ever return to the plane.
But it does make Young Wolf and friends go infinite slightly more easily.
On phasing:
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsOn one hand, I want this to be an instant so that it isn't just worse than Vindicate, but on the other hand, I've been bullied enough by Plow Under to imagine a card that can be instant removal or a turn of draw locking might be a bit much.
Like Plow Under, the core value lies in wasting the opponent another draw or two, compare to destroy them outright. Like comparing Three Tragedies with Stunted Growth.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Stunted Growth can be brutal, and plow under is strong, but Temporal Spring really did need to be an instant to be good. As an instant, it would be decent delaying "removal" combined with setting someone back a draw. As a sorcery, its too weak. Setting someone back one draw is ok, but not enough to sell me on a card for 3 mana. Delaying a permanent that way is too weak at sorcery speed. As an instant, its better as spot removal as you could wait until the creature is pointed your way or the permanent becomes threatening (they get their other combo piece), and that's worth a ton of value. As a sorcery, its value as spot removal is severely degraded. Vindicate works as a 3 mana sorcery because it hits everything and hits it permanently. Even still, I'd rather have Anguished Unmaking most of the time unless I think I'll need to deal with problem lands like Cradle. Basically, I like my spot removal to be reactive so I can stop combos and let my opponents keep their things until it threatens me. The tuck to the top effect is weak at one card, going back a single draw in't that terrible, so using it just for that (throwing something on just to deny a draw) isn't worth it, and if you send something actually good there your opponent would usually much rather give up a draw to get it back than see it exile or even destroyed. Its strongest use is usually going to be hitting a land early, setting them back both a land drop and draw when those matter most, but I don't think that's worth a card as it only effects one player and you basically need it in your opening hand. Plow Under sets you back 2 land drops and 2 draws, which will typically hurt at most stages of the game. Stunted Growth doesn't set you back land drops, but its key to note that it hits cards in your hand, meaning cards that you haven't cast yet, often meaning cards that you couldn't cast yet. Temporal Spring and Plow Under set you back draws, but at least you are usually going to be able to use the cards you redraw (unless you already have other lands in hand, then the lands are redundant). With Stunted Growth, there's a fairly good chance that those three cards that you are redrawing instead of new cards are going to be dead draws. In practice it doesn't really make a difference as Stunted Growth doesn't effect your board position, while Spring and Plow do, so in all cases your not really getting use out of the cards because you are just resetting what you draw, but psychologically knowing that you are going to be drawing cards that you can't use is disheartening.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
On phasing:
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I guess then it’s like Chaos Warp, but you get a land guaranteed.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I never thought a thing about this card until right now, but I've decided that this should be the standard by which they give people the non-combat boros legend they claim to want: design a boros card that makes Trapjaw Tyrant good and you'll have a well received boros legend.
So Path of Mettle.creature?
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Marath, Will of the Wild, right?
On phasing:
Tamanoa - Welcome to the Jungle
Lists can be found here.
If nothing else, it's a flicker effect that rebuys cast triggers.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Not just a flicker, but a flicker that you could use when you need it, such as with Mystic Snake.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
"without paying its mana cost" makes quite a difference especially some of the best cast triggers belong on the Eldrazi and Release to the Wind can target all nonland permanents, not only creatures, so you can save an expensive artifact/enchantment/planeswalker when necessary. Definitely worth the 2 more. Sure, it's worse on a defensive position when used on the opponent, but that's just a natural inverse effect, at least they gave the option for either use.
However, there aren't a lot of cast triggers you <i>can</i> buy back. Thankfully, there's some really good ones... mostly attached to the Eldrazi, if memory serves.
It's nice before a boardwipe. And can be fun if your opponent uses a boardwipe, just return your Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to the battlefield afterward, draw four cards, and laugh maniacally.
On phasing:
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!