At 6, it's too expensive. If it cost less, I would play it. But Wizards would probably make it cost more. And it really should affect planeswalkers for flavor, even though it doesn't because the card type didn't exist back then.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I would like to direct everyone's attention to Hunding Gjornersen's Zedruu Deck so that you can feel that strange rush of shame and excitement you get when you ask "why the hell would anyone play that?" and someone answers.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
*tstorm posts a link to a Zedruu decklist that is not their own*
*deep breath, knowing that I am about to be exposed to another Zedruu work of art*
*reads, not disappointed*
*contemplates the possibility that the universe exists solely to enable Zedruu masterpieces*
It just goes to show that yes, there are still uses for even auras that double as hosers.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I run It That Betrays in a couple of decks, two of which can generate tons of mana to be able to afford the ridiculous mana cost (Endrek Sahr and Karn), and the other cheats expensive cards out with Jalira and other Polymorph effects. Coupled with other cards with Annhilator, or effects that makes your opponents sacrifice stuff like Grave Pact, Death Cloud, Archfiend of Depravity, Sheoldred, Whispering One, etc., the card can really make lives of your opponents miserable (not that getting beat down by a 11/11 Annihilator 2 Eldrazi isn't already making their life rough).
Wendy's was It That Betrayed me today by giving me a double cheeseburger instead of a spicy chicken asiago ranch and I'm pretty salty about that. Clowns.
This card is a pretty sick reanimation target, up there with Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. It's always been cute to me that the card is kind of an annihilator lord, because you know, it's important to buff that keyword with a supporting cast. Usually stealing four of your opponent's mana sources is going to put a game away.
yes, it's pretty good. that being said, i'm quite tempted to cut it. it just doesn't do enough to make it worth my while, i feel. there are a few points in a game where it's pretty good, but in reality, it's very limited in it's applications. It works with rakdos 'cuz he's the general, with a good number of haste enablers, and can wipe someone's board in half and add a good tonne to my side out of nowhere.
But that's the problem - it's a win-more. not a seal-the-victory that rakdos needs in the deck (compare to say savage beating). I've a feeling I'm in the minority here, but i think it that betrays looks a heck of a lot scarier than it actually plays in EDH.
This card playing around with how much more devastating they can make Annihilator is telling of how little WOTC would know that they would ultimately regret designing the Annihilator ability.
Yeah nobody is letting that thing swing. It's just a card that looks cool and desirable to throw in a deck but is undesirable by your friends to face and good luck getting it to do anything outside of means like, sneak attack.
You can actually pretty much fill an Animar, Soul of Elements deck with Eldrazi, Blightsteel Colossus, and other colorless nukes. (I mean, when you're not just storming off with Shrieking Drake or a gating creature from Planeshift and Aluren.) This one is interesting, though, for letting you recycle opponents' enters triggers and getting what they sacrifice, so it gains a few respect points. (And yes, obligatory "It's just a part of Kozilek" complaint when people keep thinking the Eldrazi are actually a brood and not just organs of the three legends.) Just don't send it against someone with Phage the Untouchable; I highly doubt you have a Torpor Orb in Animar.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Kind if an odd card. I suppose you could run it with a bunch of indestructible creatures so you always win combat, but it doesn't do much on its own and really effects creature decks which tend to be weaker anyway.
This card playing around with how much more devastating they can make Annihilator is telling of how little WOTC would know that they would ultimately regret designing the Annihilator ability.
Yeah nobody is letting that thing swing. It's just a card that looks cool and desirable to throw in a deck but is undesirable by your friends to face and good luck getting it to do anything outside of means like, sneak attack.
Unpopular opinion time: Annihilator is a fine ability that is only a problem because the Titans were overly pushed cheese sandwiches, especially Emrakul. Annihilator 4, let alone 6, is just so backbreaking on its own, and especially obnoxious when paired with the Titans abilities and size. Their high costs were irrelevant when they were so easy to cheat out.
Now, It That Betrays otoh, is a great example of what a pushed Eldrazi should have been. Annihilator 2 should have been the cap for a large body, then you add something spicy like this ability. You can still kill it easily, unlike Ulamog and Emrakul, no on cast ability, and even if it gets a swing in it's painful but not the end of the world. Has anyone ever had an issue with this, or Artisan? Even pathrazer at Annihilator 3 wasn't that groan inducing because it just had evasion, it was easy to answer and leaves plenty of opportunity to interact with it even if cheated out. Ulamogs Crusher? Hand of Emrakul? No problems. I could maybe see going up to 4 for a 10 drop with a weaker body, like a 6/4 or something, so you may only get to attack once.
There's plenty of space to design fair Annihilator cards, as shown by It That Betrays. The Titans poisoned the mechanic, but they were poorly designed on an individual level, already doing too much even without slapping on a level of Annihilator that was clearly too high. Would a 7 drop 5/7 Annihilator 1 that gains you a life when an opponent sacs be bad? Would a 10 drop 6/9 with Annihilator 1 that draws you a card? A 7 drop 5/5 with Annihilator 2? A 6 drop 3/4 with Annihilator 1 that forces a discard? An 8 drop 7/5 with Annihilator 2 that pings a player for 1?
Private Mod Note
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
This card playing around with how much more devastating they can make Annihilator is telling of how little WOTC would know that they would ultimately regret designing the Annihilator ability.
Yeah nobody is letting that thing swing. It's just a card that looks cool and desirable to throw in a deck but is undesirable by your friends to face and good luck getting it to do anything outside of means like, sneak attack.
Unpopular opinion time: Annihilator is a fine ability that is only a problem because the Titans were overly pushed cheese sandwiches, especially Emrakul. Annihilator 4, let alone 6, is just so backbreaking on its own, and especially obnoxious when paired with the Titans abilities and size. Their high costs were irrelevant when they were so easy to cheat out.
Now, It That Betrays otoh, is a great example of what a pushed Eldrazi should have been. Annihilator 2 should have been the cap for a large body, then you add something spicy like this ability. You can still kill it easily, unlike Ulamog and Emrakul, no on cast ability, and even if it gets a swing in it's painful but not the end of the world. Has anyone ever had an issue with this, or Artisan? Even pathrazer at Annihilator 3 wasn't that groan inducing because it just had evasion, it was easy to answer and leaves plenty of opportunity to interact with it even if cheated out. Ulamogs Crusher? Hand of Emrakul? No problems. I could maybe see going up to 4 for a 10 drop with a weaker body, like a 6/4 or something, so you may only get to attack once.
There's plenty of space to design fair Annihilator cards, as shown by It That Betrays. The Titans poisoned the mechanic, but they were poorly designed on an individual level, already doing too much even without slapping on a level of Annihilator that was clearly too high. Would a 7 drop 5/7 Annihilator 1 that gains you a life when an opponent sacs be bad? Would a 10 drop 6/9 with Annihilator 1 that draws you a card? A 7 drop 5/5 with Annihilator 2? A 6 drop 3/4 with Annihilator 1 that forces a discard? An 8 drop 7/5 with Annihilator 2 that pings a player for 1?
They did try that in a way with Bane of Bala Ged and strangely no one I ever faced used it. I guess people did find the card to be too fair then...
As for Death Pits, it's a pretty good support card for a deck that uses a lot of earthquake type spells.
I have fond memories of losing so hard to this card in high school in, yes, the aforementioned "Tim" deck. Prodigals, Zuran Spellcasters, Suq'ata Firewalkers, and iirc a 2-of Mawcor too. A pair of Sunken Cities as a backup - not that it was necessary. God this sounds so dated 🤣.
As a longtime Doran player this card can beat me till I remove it. Also can be funny in Horobi?
I don't see why. Death Pits does not target, it is triggered based on a condition being met. I also don't see the meaningful interaction vs Doran unless you mean it's strong vs those wacky high butt guys like Indomitable Ancients? But this strat is already lukewarm and suboptimal to the standard of aggro rock anyway such that I don't see how it's meaningful to the discussion of Death Pits anyway.
Like tstorm said that rule isn't really needed when you can just cast
Phantasmal Image or Phyrexian Metamorph or any clone and draw all the cards, and then inevitably drawing into the next clone, also Clockspinning does really dumb things with all that.
I also took it apart very quickly because it draws a millions cards and tends to overwhelm people.
On phasing:
I would like to direct everyone's attention to Hunding Gjornersen's Zedruu Deck so that you can feel that strange rush of shame and excitement you get when you ask "why the hell would anyone play that?" and someone answers.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
*deep breath, knowing that I am about to be exposed to another Zedruu work of art*
*reads, not disappointed*
*contemplates the possibility that the universe exists solely to enable Zedruu masterpieces*
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
It just goes to show that yes, there are still uses for even auras that double as hosers.
On phasing:
If people know your name, you must be significant. If a pronoun is enough to conjure your image, you must be truly special. I love pronoun card names.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
This card is a pretty sick reanimation target, up there with Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur. It's always been cute to me that the card is kind of an annihilator lord, because you know, it's important to buff that keyword with a supporting cast. Usually stealing four of your opponent's mana sources is going to put a game away.
yes, it's pretty good. that being said, i'm quite tempted to cut it. it just doesn't do enough to make it worth my while, i feel. there are a few points in a game where it's pretty good, but in reality, it's very limited in it's applications. It works with rakdos 'cuz he's the general, with a good number of haste enablers, and can wipe someone's board in half and add a good tonne to my side out of nowhere.
But that's the problem - it's a win-more. not a seal-the-victory that rakdos needs in the deck (compare to say savage beating). I've a feeling I'm in the minority here, but i think it that betrays looks a heck of a lot scarier than it actually plays in EDH.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Yeah nobody is letting that thing swing. It's just a card that looks cool and desirable to throw in a deck but is undesirable by your friends to face and good luck getting it to do anything outside of means like, sneak attack.
On phasing:
You almost want to spell it with a W.
Unpopular opinion time: Annihilator is a fine ability that is only a problem because the Titans were overly pushed cheese sandwiches, especially Emrakul. Annihilator 4, let alone 6, is just so backbreaking on its own, and especially obnoxious when paired with the Titans abilities and size. Their high costs were irrelevant when they were so easy to cheat out.
Now, It That Betrays otoh, is a great example of what a pushed Eldrazi should have been. Annihilator 2 should have been the cap for a large body, then you add something spicy like this ability. You can still kill it easily, unlike Ulamog and Emrakul, no on cast ability, and even if it gets a swing in it's painful but not the end of the world. Has anyone ever had an issue with this, or Artisan? Even pathrazer at Annihilator 3 wasn't that groan inducing because it just had evasion, it was easy to answer and leaves plenty of opportunity to interact with it even if cheated out. Ulamogs Crusher? Hand of Emrakul? No problems. I could maybe see going up to 4 for a 10 drop with a weaker body, like a 6/4 or something, so you may only get to attack once.
There's plenty of space to design fair Annihilator cards, as shown by It That Betrays. The Titans poisoned the mechanic, but they were poorly designed on an individual level, already doing too much even without slapping on a level of Annihilator that was clearly too high. Would a 7 drop 5/7 Annihilator 1 that gains you a life when an opponent sacs be bad? Would a 10 drop 6/9 with Annihilator 1 that draws you a card? A 7 drop 5/5 with Annihilator 2? A 6 drop 3/4 with Annihilator 1 that forces a discard? An 8 drop 7/5 with Annihilator 2 that pings a player for 1?
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
They did try that in a way with Bane of Bala Ged and strangely no one I ever faced used it. I guess people did find the card to be too fair then...
As for Death Pits, it's a pretty good support card for a deck that uses a lot of earthquake type spells.
I don't see why. Death Pits does not target, it is triggered based on a condition being met. I also don't see the meaningful interaction vs Doran unless you mean it's strong vs those wacky high butt guys like Indomitable Ancients? But this strat is already lukewarm and suboptimal to the standard of aggro rock anyway such that I don't see how it's meaningful to the discussion of Death Pits anyway.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.